There are 3 messages totalling 82 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. lavatory (2)

 2. Webliography



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 1 Apr 1996 06:01:03 -0500

From:  "M. Lynne Murphy"  104LYN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MUSE.ARTS.WITS.AC.ZA 

Subject: lavatory



isn't it weird how whenever we discuss a word, it comes up in my

sunday newspaper?



this week in the "letter from new york" column (by tony allen-mills)

i the london _sunday times_, the focus was on children in the u.s.

engaging in civil lawsuits. here's the quote:



  there was the case of philip garner, 10, who is suing his land-

  lord for $100 000 for the trauma he suffered when the lavatory

  in his Bronx apartment exploded.



now, does anyone know what the reference of "lavatory" is here? the

sink or the toilet? not sure if the wording reflects the bronx

location of the lavatory or the presumably british dialect of the

writer. certainly, it would be more traumatic to me if the toilet

exploded (and it seems more likely a thing for a toilet to do), but

this interpretation is in conflict with the restricted sense

"bathroom sink" that's been widely reported.



lynne



---------------------------------------------------------------------

D. Lynne Murphy              104lyn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]muse.arts.wits.ac.za

Department of Linguistics            phone: 27(11)716-2340

University of the Witwatersrand          fax: 27(11)716-8030

Johannesburg 2050

SOUTH AFRICA



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 1 Apr 1996 09:56:40 EST

From:  Undetermined origin c/o LISTSERV maintainer

      owner-LISTSERV[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UGA.CC.UGA.EDU 

Subject: Re: lavatory



I think I can answer Lynne's question, from other information

rather than dialect (I'm only used to "lavatory" as a somewhat

old-fashioned term for the room containing toilet, sink, and

possibly shower or bathtub). There have been several cases locally

of exploding toilets in the last couple of years. The problem

seems to be that the low-flow toilets they've been installing to

save water use a much higher pressure. I would guess that this

_Sunday Times_ article is using British terminology in discussing

a New York event, and that it was the toilet that exploded.



Vicki Rosenzweig

vr%acmcr.uucp[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]murphy.com | rosenzweig[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]acm.org

New York, NY



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 1 Apr 1996 10:46:43 EST

From:  Bruce Southard  ENSOUTHA[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ECUVM.CIS.ECU.EDU 

Subject: Webliography



Scott Stebelman, a librarian at George Washington University, recently

used the term "webliography" in an e-mail message that he sent me. A

"webliography" is a bibliography appearing on the World Wide Web, but

differing from a "standard" bibliography in that one can click on a

bibliographic entry and get an electronic version of the article. Scott

says that the term "webliography" has been around for a year or so, but

this is the first time that I've encountered it. Is anyone else familiar

with the term?



By the way, to see an example of a "webliography" go to

//gwis.circ.gwu.edu/~gelman/hyperbib.html.



Regards,

Bruce Southard

English Department

East Carolina University

Greenville, NC 27858

ensoutha[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ecuvm.cis.ecu.edu

919-328-6676

919-328-4889 (FAX)



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 31 Mar 1996 to 1 Apr 1996

***********************************************





There are 4 messages totalling 89 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. lexicography in english (2)

 2. Problems with DAT recordings

 3.  No subject given 



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:50:56 -0500

From:  "M. Lynne Murphy"  104LYN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MUSE.ARTS.WITS.AC.ZA 

Subject: lexicography in english



does anyone know how i could get my hands on _lexicography in

english_, published by the ny academy of sciences in 1973? (ed. by

r.i. mcdavid & a. duckert). it's not available through south african

interlibrary loan, and would be cheaper and less painful to buy the

book than to get it through international interlibrary loan.



if anyone has a fax or e-mail address for the ny academy of sciences,

i'd be really grateful to learn of it.



lynne



---------------------------------------------------------------------

M. Lynne Murphy              104lyn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]muse.arts.wits.ac.za

Department of Linguistics            phone: 27(11)716-2340

University of the Witwatersrand          fax: 27(11)716-8030

Johannesburg 2050

SOUTH AFRICA



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 2 Apr 1996 09:43:35 -0700

From:  Bruce Gelder  bgelder[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CAMEL.CORP.ES.COM 

Subject: Re: lexicography in english



 if anyone has a fax or e-mail address for the ny academy of sciences,

 i'd be really grateful to learn of it.

 

 lynne



Lynne (and anyone else who's interested),

Try these:



E-mail: nyas[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nyas.org

S-mail: Two East Sixty-Third Street

    New York, NY 10021

Phone: (212) 838-0230



And, if you have Web access, you can go to http://www.nyas.org



Hope that helps.



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:46:00 -0600

From:  Tom Klingler  klingler[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU 

Subject: Problems with DAT recordings



I recently began making field recordings in DAT format using a Tascam DA-P1

portable recorder. Just last week a colleague of mine who also does

linguistic field work told that he had decided against making digital

recordings because, he claimed, they distort speakers' voices. Although I

hadn't noticed this before, his comment prompted me to compare analog and

digital recordings I'd made of the same speaker. I was surprised and

somewhat disconcerted to find that there was, indeed, a pretty noticeable

difference between the two. I'm not sure just how to describe the

difference, but in a general way I'd say the speaker's voice sounded less

natural on the DAT recording, and somewhat lower than I recall it to have

been.



I'd be interested in knowing if anyone else who has used DAT recordings has

noticed this problem.



Tom Klingler





******************************************************************************

Tom Klingler

Department of French and Italian

Tulane University

New Orleans, LA 70118

(504) 862-3120 (office)

(504) 865-8020

Email: klingler[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 2 Apr 1996 19:48:16 -0600

From:  "Jonathan J. Oelke"  oelkej[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CONQUEST.WITCC.CC.IA.US 

Subject:  No subject given 



Jonathan J. Oelke

oelkej[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]conquest.witcc.cc.ia.us



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 1 Apr 1996 to 2 Apr 1996

**********************************************





There is one message totalling 64 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. The origins of "discussant" et alia



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 2 Apr 1996 23:46:57 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: The origins of "discussant" et alia



The following richly informative note on the origins of "discussant" comes

from my learned colleague Carl Berkhout.



   In response to Seth Sklarey's query re discussant meaning panelist in

  a discussion, the OED gives a 1927 citation for this word. It is of

  American origin. Wouldn't you know it? Discussant sets my "dentes" on

  edge. Presumably most British people likely to be writing about members

  of a discussion have studied at least a bit of Latin and know that you

  cant' can't make a present participle from a past participle (discuss 

  discutio, discutere, discussus) and switch conjugations to boot. But

  perhaps I should lighten up and appreciate that in English you CAN mix

  and match. A properly formed Latinate participle would yield discutient

  instead of discussant and many people wouldn't make the connection.



It's actually the Brits who have given us such present-participial words

as "resistant," descendant," "pendant," "sergeant," "depressant"

(instead of "depriment"), "disinfectant" (instead of "disinficient"),

"repellant" (beside "repellent"), etc., along with quite a few words

that are now rare or obsolete (such as "proposant," "protectant," and,

for that matter, "discutant"). Early or late Latin or resultant French

feminine nouns ("resistentia," etc.) were probably among the various

factors, along with plain old analogy, that produced "-ant" where we

should expect "-ent." The same goes, perhaps, for the occasional

first-conjugation vowel in a gerund derived ultimately from a

third-conjugation verb ("reprimand"   "reprimendum/a").



Switching conjugations has been fairly common over the centuries

("mordant," "tenant," "revenant," and so forth), and anything goes once

an English infinitive--and thus a present-tense source of a present

participle--is formed either directly or indirectly via French from a

Latin past participle even though English preserves the historical Latin

vowel in participial suffixes much more often than not. (The infinitive

"discusse(n)" goes back to Late Middle English, and it's in fact mildly

surprising that it seems not to have yielded a present-participial noun

until the 20th century. But even "discussion," which chiefly meant

investigation and/or extirpation in medieval and early Renaissance

times, was relatively slow to fix its present meaning. A factor, I

suspect, was the gradual assimilation of words from "discutere" and from

"discurrere" [ppl. "discursum," whence "discourse"], somewhat in the way

that has produced "curse/cuss" and "burst/bust" in modern English.

Consider this 1590 example:



  But leauing the commodities of learning to be discoursed by those

  that are learned indeed, this onlie I say, that the endeuour of

  Gentlemen ought be either in Armes or learning, or in them both.



  segar, honor, v. 70)



Anyway, if things were otherise, we'd always be disponing, dismitting,

and disperging many modern English verbs though never repulsing,

rejecting, or repressing verbs resurrecting forms that we should objitch

to and refund to accip. We could hope only to restringe ourselves to

uting verb forms that promove the latinesquely proper usage.



     Patricia vobis plurimam salutem dicit.



Idem tibi quoque dicit Carolus.



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 2 Apr 1996 to 3 Apr 1996

**********************************************





There is one message totalling 21 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. ADS Teaching news



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 5 Apr 1996 20:45:06 -0800

From:  Gail Stygall  stygall[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]U.WASHINGTON.EDU 

Subject: Re: ADS Teaching news



Allan (and anyone else who may know the answer to this query)--

I have been attempting to compare the bibliography I edit with MLA's for a

number of ends and I seem not to be able to locate _American Speech_ as a

part of the _MLA Bibliography_. Could that possibly be right--that MLA

doesn't index _AS_? Is there some other title I should know and don't and

so can't find it? Help!! And if it is correct, is there any reason why?

Thanks,

Gail



______________________________________________________________________________

Gail Stygall  stygall[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]u.washington.edu        (206) 685-2384

Editor, _CCCC Bibliography of Composition and Rhetoric_

English, Box 354330, University of Washington, Seattle WA 98195-4330

______________________________________________________________________________



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 3 Apr 1996 to 5 Apr 1996

**********************************************





There are 6 messages totalling 308 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Number one, two, three

 2. books by Chambers and by Chaika (2)

 3. Reminder: abstracts for SAMLA in Savannah due 4/28

 4. No smathering in Birmingham



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 30 Mar 1996 17:38:53 +0000

From:  "Albert E. Krahn"  akrahn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IBM.NET 

Subject: Number one, two, three



Speaking of number one and number two,



a student gave a talk in class last month and mentioned number three.

Nobody knew what it was. I think she described it as vomiting.



Has this one been around, or did she invent it?



AKRA

-------------

AKRAHN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IBM.NET  or  KRAHNA[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MILWAUKEE.TEC.WI.US

Al Krahn Milwaukee Area Technical College Milwaukee WI 53233

414/297-6519 fax 414/297-7990 home 414/476-4025



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 6 Apr 1996 12:26:04 -0500

From:  BARBARA HILL HUDSON  BHHUDSON[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GROVE.IUP.EDU 

Subject: books by Chambers and by Chaika



I have ordered an examination copy of J.K. Chambers' book: Sociolinguistic

theory: Linguistic variation and its social significance (Blackwell Pubs,

1995). I haven't read it, but I wonder if it might be suitable for an

introduction to sociolinguistics class (many of the students will not have much

linguistic background).



I also know that there is a third edition of Chaika's introductory book,

 Language, the social mirror (?).



Have any of you read or reviewed or heard anything about these books?



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 6 Apr 1996 12:52:37 -0500

From:  "Peter L. Patrick"  PPATRICK[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GUVAX.ACC.GEORGETOWN.EDU 

Subject: Reminder: abstracts for SAMLA in Savannah due 4/28



Abstracts for the ADS session at SAMLA (South Atlantic MLA) are due to

me no later than April 28th, which is a Sunday. SAMLA will be meeting

in Savannah Nov. 8-10 (a nice time to be in a lovely city). Please

send me a brief abstract or let me know if you're thinking about

sending one; I'll contact you with more details.

    Since April 28 is a Sunday, if you use the postal service

you'll have to be earlier; if you want to fax me directly, you'll have

to call me at home first (202-237-8538 in D.C.) so's I can turn on my

fax-receiving software. Or just email.

    I look forward to seeing some of you there!

        --peter patrick

        linguistics dept.

        georgetown university



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 6 Apr 1996 12:54:53 -0500

From:  BARBARA HILL HUDSON  BHHUDSON[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GROVE.IUP.EDU 

Subject: Re: books by Chambers and by Chaika



On the message about Chambers and Chaika I forgot to include my address:



Barbara Hill Hudson

bhhudson[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]grove.iup.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 6 Apr 1996 12:30:03 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: No smathering in Birmingham



A belated response to an old discussion: my Birmingham, Alabama colleague

just responded that he did not know the term, but felt it was being used

much as his family had used  slathered .



--Rudy Troike (rtroike[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccit.arizona.edu)



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 5 Apr 1996 to 6 Apr 1996

**********************************************





There is one message totalling 34 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. books by Chambers and by Chaika



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 7 Apr 1996 20:03:43 -0500

From:  "Peter L. Patrick"  PPATRICK[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GUVAX.ACC.GEORGETOWN.EDU 

Subject: Re: books by Chambers and by Chaika



Barbara,

    I've looked through the Chambers book-- I confess to not

having read it all yet!-- and used parts of it, though not much, for a

grad class in Variation Analysis I'm teaching this spring. I plan to

use a lot more of it for a fall grad class in Sociolinguistic

Variation (the difference is that I'm focusing on internal linguistic

variation and quantitative methods now, and will focus on external

variables such as age, sex, class-- JKC's big three-- and language

change in the fall).

    It's a really interesting volume, and the first chapter

contains some big-picture stuff I find very helpful. But I don't think

it would work out very well for a class without much linguistics or

sociolx background unless you picked and chose and filled in stuff a

lot for them. It's not really an intro textbook of that sort. On the

other hand, he has a straightforward approach to sociolx that focuses

on covariation of language with social factors that I think is what

undergrads get most easily, more than Labov's approach stressing that

variation is central to grammar. I've been noticing lately how people

seem to divide up on this count, stating plainly that the most

important aspect is [whichever one they prefer]; Walt Wolfram's one of

the few agnostics, saying you can do either one, and they're not the

same, take your pick.

    Speaking of the devil, is it true that Wolfram's 1991 textbook

on dialects is out of print? Does anyone have a good-shape extra copy

they'd like to sell me? I'll pay postage. (Write me directly if you

do. Thanks.)

    --peter patrick



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 6 Apr 1996 to 7 Apr 1996

**********************************************





There are 18 messages totalling 596 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Interesting Free Offer........... (7)

 2. Interesting Free Off (2)

 3. Send=Private Review=Private (3)

 4. begging the question

 5. books by Chambers and by Chaika (3)

 6. ADS Teaching news

 7. recorded sources



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 8 Apr 1996 03:31:15 -0400

From:  JohnChen00[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM

Subject: Interesting Free Offer...........



---------------------

Forwarded message:

Subj:  Interesting Free Offer........

Date:  96-04-08 02:45:01 EDT

From:  JohnChen00



To:   announcement.service[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]r1.f62.n8669.z303.fidonet.org



-----  NOTE:  Please first read my note which appears below the "Request for

more info Form." Then, to get more info, just fill out the "Request for More

Info" form completely and *FAX* or *SMAIL* it back to the company. You will

get a quick reply via email within 1 business day of receipt of the info

request form below.



IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR THOSE FAXING IN THEIR REPLY: Please make sure you

return *only* the below form and *no part* of this message other than the

actual form below. If you do not know how to cut and paste the below form

onto a fresh clean blank page for faxing, then you may re-type the below

form, as long as you copy it line for line *exactly.* This is necessary in

order for them to be able to process the tremendous number of replies that

they get daily.



Your fax goes directly onto their 4.2 gigabyte computer hard drive, not

paper, and all incoming fax calls are set-up to be *auto-terminated* and/or

*auto-deleted* from the incoming queue of faxes to be read, if your fax:



1. has a cover page;

2. is more than one page

3. is sent more than one time

4. does not begin with the "cut here/begin" line from the below form

5. does not end with the "cut here/end" line from the below form.

6. has any handwritten info. on it (info must must be filled out *only*

  with your computer keyboard or typewriter keyboard). This last

  provision re: no handwriting on the form applies to requests sent in

  via smail also.



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

NOTE: Their fax line is open 24 hrs. per day / 7 days per week.  However,

 if you have trouble getting through due to the high volume of overseas faxes

coming in during the early morning and late night hours, please note that the

best time to get through to their fax is Monday-Friday, 9 am - 5 pm EST (New

York Time). If you have trouble getting through to their fax, or do not have

a fax machine at work or at home, just drop the below form to them via smail

(airmail or first class mail).

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^







*------------cut here/begin-------------------------------------------*

REQUEST FOR MORE INFO: please return *only* this section (with no cover

page) via 1-page fax to:

               718-967-1550 in the USA



or via smail (first class mail or airmail) to:

                     Magazine Club Inquiry Center

                     Att. FREE Catalogue-by-email Dept.

                     PO Box 990

                     Staten Island NY 10312-0990



Sorry, but incomplete forms *will not* be acknowledged. If you do not

have an email address, or access to one, they will not be able to help you

until you do have one. If you saw this message, then you should have one.

 :)



---  SORRY, BUT NO HANDWRITTEN FORMS WILL BE ACKNOWLEDGED.

    MUST BE TYPED-OUT ON YOUR COMPUTER OR TYPEWRITER.  ---



Name:

Internet email address:

Smail home address:

City-State-Zip:

Country:

Work Tel. #:

Work Fax #:

Home Tel. #:

Home Fax #:



How did you hear about us (name of person who referred you or the area of

the internet that you saw us mentioned in): Referral by: John Chen.

040896-l-ifo



Name of USA mags you currently get on the newsstand or in the store:



Name of USA mags you currently get on the newsstand or in the store:



Name of USA mags you currently get on a subscription basis, through the mail:



Name of USA mags you would like price quotes on when we call you:



Catalogue format desired (list "1," "2," "3" or "4"):



*------------cut here/end--------------------------------------------*





Catalogue Format Options:

1. 19-Part email- can be read by EVERYONE (~525 K Total).

2. For more advanced computer users: attached text file ~525K - you

   must know how to download an attached text file and then be able to

   open it with your word processor. If in doubt, don't ask for this

   version. This isn't for internet *newbies.* Better to order option 1

   and spend a few minutes pasting them into one whole text document

   with your word processor, than to waste hours trying to figure how

   to deal with this option.

3. For more advanced Macintosh computer users: compressed attached

   text file, created with a Stuffit(tm) self-extracting archive (.sea),

   ~133K. Can be decompressed by any Macintosh computer user; no

   special expansion software or knowledge of Stuffit (tm) needed. You

   just double-click on the file icon and it automatically expands

   (unstuffs). This is for more advanced mac computer users only, as

   you still have to know how to deal with an attached file. It will cut

   your download time by 75%.  Expands out to the same ~525K file in

   option #2. See option #2 for more info on what you will need to be

   able to do.

4. For expert computer users: compressed attached text file, created with

   Stuffit(tm), ~114K. Can be decompressed by any computer user who

   has expansion software to decompress (expand) Stuffit(tm) (.sit) files.

   This is for more advanced computer users only and will cut your

   download time by 78%.  Expands out to the same ~525K file in option

   #2. See option #2 for more info on what you will need to be able to do.







Hi fellow 'netters,



My name is John Chen and I recently started using a magazine subscription

club in the USA that has a FREE 1 yr. magazine subscription deal with your

first paid order- and I have been very pleased with them.  They have over

1,500 different USA titles that they can ship to any country on a

subscription basis.  As for computer magazines from the USA, they more of a

selection than I ever knew even existed. They have magazines for most every

area of interest in their list of 1,500 titles.



Within the USA, for their USA members, they are cheaper than all their

competitors and even the publishers themselves. This is their price

guarantee.



Overseas, on the average, they are generally around one-fourth to one-half of

what the newsstands overseas charge locally for USA magazines. On some

titles they are as little as one-tenth of what the newsstands charge. They

feel that mgazines should not be a luxury overseas.  In the USA, people buy

magazines and then toss them after reading them for just a few minutes or

hours. They are so cheap in the USA!  Well, this company would like to make

it the same way for their overseas members. They are also cheaper than all

their competitors in the USA and overseas, including the publishers

themselves!  This is their price guarantee. Around one-half their business

comes from overseas, so they are very patient with new members who only speak

limited English as a 2nd language.



Their prices are so cheap because they deal direct with each publisher and

cut-out all the middlemen.



They will send you their DELUXE EMAIL CATALOGUE (around 525K-big and juicey)

!)...if you completely fill out the form above. It has lists of all the

freebies, lists of all the titles they sell, titles broken down by categories

and detailed descriptions on nearly 1,200 of the titles that they sell.



Please do not email me as I am just a happy customer and a *busy* student. I

don't have time to even complete my thesis in time, let alone run my

part-time software business! Please fill out the above form and carefully

follow the intructions above to get it to them via fax or smail.



They guarantee to beat all their competitors' prices. Sometimes they are less

than half of the next best deal I have been able to find and other times,

just a little cheaper - but I have never found a lower rate yet. They

assured me that if I ever do, they will beat it.



They have been very helpful and helped me with all my address changes as I

haved moved from one country to another.



They have a deal where you can get a free 1 yr. sub to a new magazine from a

special list of over 295 popular titles published in the USA.  They will

give you this free 1 yr. sub when you place your first paid order with them

to a renewal or new subscription to any of the over 1,500 different popular

USA titles they sell.



They can arrange delivery to virtually any country and I think they have

clients in around 45 or 46 countries now. Outside the USA there is a charge

for FPH (foreign postage and handling) (on both paid and freebie subs) that

varies from magazine to magazine. I have found their staff to be very

friendly and courteous. They even helped me with an address change when I

moved from one country to another.



The owner thinks of his service as a "club" and his clients as "members"

(even though there is no extra fee to become a member - your first purchase

automatically makes you a member) and he is real picky about who he accepts

as a new member.  When he sets you up as a new member, he himself calls you

personally on the phone to explain how he works his deal, or sometimes he has

one of his assistants call. He is kind of quirky sometimes - he insists on

setting up new members by phone so he can say hi to everyone (I sure wouldn't

want to have his phone bills!), but you can place future orders (after your

first order) via E-mail.



He has some really friendly young ladies working for him, who seem to know

just as much as he does about this magazine stuff. If you live overseas, he

will even call you there, as long as you are interested, but I think he still

makes all his overseas calls on the weekends, I guess cause the long distance

rates are cheaper then.



He only likes to take new members from referrals from satisfied existing

members and he does virtually no advertising. When I got set-up, they had a

2-3 week waiting list for new members to be called back so that they could

join up. (Once you are an existing member, they help you immediately when you

call. ) I think they are able to get back to prospective new members the

same day or within a few days now, as they have increased their staff. I am

not sure about this.........but if you email the above form to them, that is

the way to get started!



They will send you their DELUXE EMAIL CATALOGUE (around 525K-big and juicey)

!)...if you completely fill out the form above. It has lists of all the

freebies, lists of all the titles they sell, titles broken down by categories

and detailed descriptions on nearly 1,200 of the titles that they sell.



They then send you email that outlines how his club works and the list of

free choices that you can choose from, as well as the entire list of what he

sells; and then they will give you a quick (3-5 minute) friendly,

no-pressure no-obligation call to explain everything to you personally and

answer all your questions.



Once you get in, you'll love them. I do.





Sincerely,



John Chen



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 8 Apr 1996 10:51:41 +0300

From:  Jeff Martin  jeffrey[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HSCCMAIL.KUNIV.EDU.KW 

Subject: Re: Interesting Free Offer...........



Enough already! Today we all received the second posting in as many days

touting a wonderful magazine subscription service. I have received similar

postings on other mailing lists and everytime I try to send the junk mail

back to the original poster it comes back as undeliverable. Anyone out

there know how we can put a stop to this?



Jeffrey L. Martin / Kuwait University / jeffrey[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]hsccmail.kuniv.edu.kw



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 8 Apr 1996 05:28:36 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Interesting Free Offer...........



  back to the original poster it comes back as undeliverable. Anyone out

  there know how we can put a stop to this?



(1) We can change the name of the list to something that doesn't start

with an A. Listserv's spam-filter works pretty well, but the problem is

that it works by noticing that the same posting has been sent to X number

of lists (I can't remember exactly what X is, although I've known). It

then starts grabbing the junk mail and sending it to listowners instead

of to lists. That way a listowner can see whether it really is spam.

Almost every piece of spam that shows up on ADS-L has been caught by

the filter long before it gets to Words-L. That's because the spam-filter

works in alphabetical order. Both instances of this weekend's spam were

posted on ADS-L but were bounced to my mailbox as listowner instead of

showing up on Words-L. Since I read personal mail before list mail, I

can usually be pretty sure when I'm going to find spam in the ADS-L mail.

That's because I've already seen a copy of it bounced from Words-L.



(2) We can change the list from 'send=public' to 'send=private'. That

means that only subscribers can post. A dedicated spammer could, of

course, subscribe to the list for long enough to send the spam, but that

probably wouldn't happen very often. If we do change ADS-L to postings

from subscribers only, however, people will have to be careful to send

list mail from exactly the same address they subscribed from.



Although neither is ideal, I would say that (2) would probably be a

better choice than (1). Let me know if y'all want me to make the change.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 8 Apr 1996 07:42:41 EDT

From:  Robin Garr  76702.764[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]COMPUSERVE.COM 

Subject: Re: Interesting Free Off



Jeff Martin asks, "Enough already! Today we all received the second posting

in as many days touting a wonderful magazine subscription service. ... Anyone

out there know how we can put a stop to this?"



I have sent Mr. Chen the following message. Feel free to borrow it. :-) (Yes,

I know it won't work if he's using a fraudulent address, but it still makes

me feel better ... )



-----------  NOTICE REGARDING UNSOLICITED E-MAIL  ----------



*** PLEASE REMOVE MY PERSONAL E-MAIL ADDRESS FROM YOUR MAILING LIST ***



IF YOUR MESSAGE WAS INTENDED AS ADVERTISING, IT MAY BE IN VIOLATION OF

FEDERAL LAW [Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991, and Collateral Code

of Federal Regulations (47 CFR 64.1200)].



Legal notice:



The Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991 (TCPA), and collateral Code

of Federal Regulations (47 CFR 64.1200) define an unsolicited advertisement

sent via FAX as the equivalent same sent by E-Mail. To wit:



If your computer has

 * a modem connected to a regular telephone line, and

 * a printer connected to that computer,

unsolicited advertising sent via e-mail to that equipment is considered

(by definition of law) as sent to a FAX. The TCPA allows a private right

of action against the sender of such unsolicted advertising. The

recipient can sue for $500, or actual damages (whichever is greater).



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 8 Apr 1996 07:00:30 -0600

From:  "Salikoko S. Mufwene"  s-mufwene[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UCHICAGO.EDU 

Subject: Re: Interesting Free Offer...........



In message Mon, 8 Apr 1996 05:28:36 -0500,

 Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU  writes:



  Although neither is ideal, I would say that (2) would probably be a

  better choice than (1). Let me know if y'all want me to make the change.



  I vote for the change.



Sali.

**********************************************************************

Salikoko S. Mufwene        s-mufwene[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uchicago.edu

University of Chicago       312-702-8531; FAX: 312-702-9861

Department of Linguistics

1010 East 59th Street

Chicago, IL 60637

**********************************************************************



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 8 Apr 1996 07:10:50 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Interesting Free Off



  I have sent Mr. Chen the following message. Feel free to borrow it. :-) (Yes,

  I know it won't work if he's using a fraudulent address, but it still makes

  me feel better ... )



His address isn't fraudulent (or at least it's *somebody's* real address),

but mail to him will bounce since his mailbox is full.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 8 Apr 1996 07:11:52 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Interesting Free Offer...........



    better choice than (1). Let me know if y'all want me to make the change.

 

   I vote for the change.



The vote seems to be 1-0 in favor of the change. I'll do it right now.

If we don't like it, we can change back easily.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 8 Apr 1996 07:30:52 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Send=Private Review=Private



In addition to changing the "send" setting to private, I've changed

the "review" setting. That means that nobody but subscribers can get

the list of subscribers.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 8 Apr 1996 08:40:33 -0400

From:  "Bethany K. Dumas, U of Tennessee"  dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Re: Interesting Free Offer...........



Please do NOT change the list to post=private. I post from other accounts

occasionally and would miss that flexibility. We receive very few

spam-posts.



When it is possible, I always send the post back to the poster and also

notify the poster's postmaster with a request that the account be

cancelled. (The account is usually cancelled.)



Thanks for your attention to this, Natalie.



Bethany

Bethany K. Dumas, J.D., Ph.D.  | Applied Linguistics, Language & Law

Dep't of English, UT, Knoxville | EMAIL: dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu

415 McClung Tower        | (423) 974-6965 | FAX (423) 974-6926

Knoxville, TN 37996-0430    | See Webpage at http://ljp.la.utk.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 8 Apr 1996 07:51:21 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Interesting Free Offer...........



  Please do NOT change the list to post=private. I post from other accounts

  occasionally and would miss that flexibility. We receive very few



Oops. I've changed it. I've got to tromp across campus now to a class

in a faraway building but will think about this problem some more while

tromping (and perhaps while teaching, although I hope not). Meanwhile,

here's something you can do for the multiple-account problem: Subscribe

from all the accounts you're likely to post from but set all but one of

them to 'nomail'. I have multiple subscriptions to some lists, including

ADS-L, but get mail for only one of those subscriptions. I also am

subscribed to some lists that I leave set on 'nomail' all the time --

lists that have archives accessible to subscribers only. From time to

time I want to look for something in the Humanist archives, for example,

but I don't want to get Humanist mail. I've been a subscriber for years

without being bothered with any of the mail.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 8 Apr 1996 07:23:43 -0700

From:  SETH SKLAREY  crissiet[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IX.NETCOM.COM 

Subject: Re: Send=Private Review=Private



 In addition to changing the "send" setting to private, I've changed

 the "review" setting. That means that nobody but subscribers can get

 the list of subscribers.

   --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



Bless you.



However you should have some way for non-subscribers to get

through, but not directly to the list, so that it can be looked at then

posted by

you if postworthy.



Seth



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:30:26 -0400

From:  "M. Lynne Murphy"  104LYN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MUSE.ARTS.WITS.AC.ZA 

Subject: begging the question



can't remember who was collecting "beg the questions", but here is

another. i have no idea which reading to assign to this use. i

think the phrase has become so ambiguous as to be meaningless to me.



from "public sector salaries 'justified'" by phillipa garson, _weekly

mail and guardian_ (south africa), 4-11 april 1996:



"A director of a leading mining house or public company like Escom

can earn almost twice as much as the president, begging the question

of whether salaries in the private sector are not grossly inflated."



now, i would say that this gets the newer reading ('begging for the

question to be asked'), except that the article is about public

sector salaries, not private (this sentence is sort of a non-sequitur

paragraph), so maybe they are using the old meaning ('avoiding the

question'). i dunno.



lynne



---------------------------------------------------------------------

M. Lynne Murphy              104lyn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]muse.arts.wits.ac.za

Department of Linguistics            phone: 27(11)716-2340

University of the Witwatersrand          fax: 27(11)716-8030

Johannesburg 2050

SOUTH AFRICA



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 8 Apr 1996 12:53:11 -0500

From:  "Timothy C. Frazer"  mftcf[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UXA.ECN.BGU.EDU 

Subject: Re: books by Chambers and by Chaika



On Sat, 6 Apr 1996, BARBARA HILL HUDSON wrote:



  I have ordered an examination copy of J.K. Chambers' book: Sociolinguistic

  theory: Linguistic variation and its social significance (Blackwell Pubs,

  1995). I haven't read it, but I wonder if it might be suitable for an

  introduction to sociolinguistics class (many of the students will not have much

  linguistic background).

 

  I also know that there is a third edition of Chaika's introductory book,

  Language, the social mirror (?).

 

I have used various editions olf Chaika for years. Whatever its problems

might be, its the only one students find readable.



Tim Frazer



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:25:49 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Send=Private Review=Private



  However you should have some way for non-subscribers to get

  through, but not directly to the list, so that it can be looked at then

  posted by

  you if postworthy.



I think listserv bounces such mail back to the sender only, not to

the listowner. But the sender could forward it to me. Listowners can

still be easily identified, even with 'review=private'. When a list

is set to 'review=private', the response a non-subscriber gets to the

'review' command is the list headers (including, of course, the

listowner's address), with a note saying that the person can't get

the list of subscribers.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 8 Apr 1996 15:36:27 EDT

From:  Bruce Southard  ENSOUTHA[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ECUVM.CIS.ECU.EDU 

Subject: Re: ADS Teaching news



Having indexed _American Speech_ for the _MLA International

Bibliography_ since 1978, I can assure you that all the _AS_ entries are

there. The 1995 entries are not yet online, but everything else should

be available electronically and in the print version. If you have any

questions, please contact me.



Regards,



Bruce Southard



ensoutha[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ecuvm.cis.ecu.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 8 Apr 1996 14:53:00 EST

From:  simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU

Subject: Re: books by Chambers and by Chaika



For my 300 level (undergrad) 600 level (grad) Language and Society,

I used Wardaugh as the required text, Chaika (3rd edition) as the

recommended.

I find that while I like the text of Chaika, I'm not wild about the

organization of the material, and where some things turn up. On the

other hand (not exactly other hand, but), the Wardaugh presentation

seems to assume previous knowledge.



I'm still working with "all" of them, I usu have Romaine and Holmes

and Wardaugh and Chaika out on the table most of the time. And I'm

supplementing like crazy.



The St. Martin's Press people were here the other day to see "what we

wanted". I showed the Dialects and American English and asked if they

could put this back in print. (Does it work like that?)



beth



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 8 Apr 1996 12:53:56 -0700

From:  Robert Claire  rclaire[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SINEWAVE.COM 

Subject: recorded sources



Dear members,

Please forgive my question which may have appeared here many times,

but I am a new subscriber, and am particularly interested in

information about the availability of recordings (audio and video) of

regional and foreign accents in American speech. For example, I have

seen the video "American Tongues" referred to, but don't know how to

go about getting a copy. Is there any comprehensive list of such

resources? Thanks,

Robert Claire  rclaire[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]sinewave.com 



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 8 Apr 1996 16:39:13 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: books by Chambers and by Chaika



  I used Wardaugh as the required text, Chaika (3rd edition) as the

  recommended.



I wish Wardhaugh and Chaika would mate (the books, that is) and produce

an offspring that had the substance of Wardhaugh and the readability of

Chaika. I've tried both and have not been totally happy with either of

them. Wardhaugh seems to have gone out of his way to make a potentially

interesting subject as boring as possible. Chaika, OTOH, doesn't include

quite as much depth or detail as I'd like to see in a textbook. (And she

lost credibility in my eyes with whatever that was she said about dogs --

we discussed it on the list a couple of years ago -- something like we

can't use the word "energetic" in referring to a dog.)

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 7 Apr 1996 to 8 Apr 1996

**********************************************





There are 13 messages totalling 286 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. books by Chambers and by Chaika (3)

 2. Interesting Free Offer........... (9)

 3. P.S.



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 9 Apr 1996 09:24:47 -0500

From:  "Timothy C. Frazer"  mftcf[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UXA.ECN.BGU.EDU 

Subject: Re: books by Chambers and by Chaika



On Mon, 8 Apr 1996, Natalie Maynor wrote:



 

  I wish Wardhaugh and Chaika would mate (the books, that is) and produce

  an offspring that had the substance of Wardhaugh and the readability of

  Chaika.

Amen.



I've tried both and have not been totally happy with either of

  them. Wardhaugh seems to have gone out of his way to make a potentially

  interesting subject as boring as possible. Chaika, OTOH, doesn't include

  quite as much depth or detail as I'd like to see in a textbook.

Exactly.



Bertter yet would be a fusion of Wolfram and Chaika.



Tim



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 9 Apr 1996 11:24:33 -0400

From:  Ronald Butters  amspeech[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ACPUB.DUKE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Interesting Free Offer...........



On Mon, 8 Apr 1996, Bethany K. Dumas, U of Tennessee wrote:



  Please do NOT change the list to post=private. I post from other accounts

  occasionally and would miss that flexibility. We receive very few

  spam-posts.

I AM IN THE SAME POSITION AS BETHANY AND AGREE WITH HER VOTE ON THIS

MATTER. IT IS REALLY EASY TO HIT THE "DELETE" BUTTON!



  When it is possible, I always send the post back to the poster and also

  notify the poster's postmaster with a request that the account be

  cancelled. (The account is usually cancelled.)

 

 ME, TOO. THIS SEEMS TO WORK FINE.



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 9 Apr 1996 08:44:22 -0700

From:  Peter McGraw  pmcgraw[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CALVIN.LINFIELD.EDU 

Subject: Re: Interesting Free Offer...........



On Tue, 9 Apr 1996, Ronald Butters wrote:



  On Mon, 8 Apr 1996, Bethany K. Dumas, U of Tennessee wrote:

 

    Please do NOT change the list to post=private. I post from other accounts

    occasionally and would miss that flexibility. We receive very few

    spam-posts.

  I AM IN THE SAME POSITION AS BETHANY AND AGREE WITH HER VOTE ON THIS

  MATTER. IT IS REALLY EASY TO HIT THE "DELETE" BUTTON!

 

    When it is possible, I always send the post back to the poster and also

    notify the poster's postmaster with a request that the account be

    cancelled. (The account is usually cancelled.)

   

  ME, TOO. THIS SEEMS TO WORK FINE.

 



I tried this once (notifying the postmaster), following someone's

(Bethany's?) directions, and have no idea whether it worked or not. How

does one know if they cancelled the spammer's account? Could we have

directions again on how to do this?



Peter McGraw

Linfield College

McMinnville, OR



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 9 Apr 1996 11:51:07 -0400

From:  "Christopher R. Coolidge"  ccoolidg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MOOSE.UVM.EDU 

Subject: Re: Interesting Free Offer...........



I reccommend every member of the list send the spam back to its point of

origin. Even if there's nobody at that address anymore, in this case it

could annoy AOL into doing something about it. I know they have a policy

against commercial use, and I'm sure the guy who sent the spam knows it too.

BTW, it's not just ADS-L; I'm on the Richard Thompson list, and got it

there too. Twice.



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 9 Apr 1996 11:04:21 -0500

From:  Rick Arons  RARONS[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]TINY.COMPUTING.CSBSJU.EDU 

Subject: Re: books by Chambers and by Chaika



I've tried Wardhaugh, and students tend to yawn (though I like it). In January

for an intro course (students had no background in linguistics or

sociolinguistics) I used Holmes, "An introduction to sociolinguistics", with an

extra chapter from Romaine and one from Wardhaugh. Students liked the book a

lot.



Rick Arons

St. John's University



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 9 Apr 1996 11:04:38 EST

From:  simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU

Subject: Re: books by Chambers and by Chaika



Well, I'd like Wolfram & Chaika (dedifussified and somewhat reorganized)

with Wardaugh's number of refs to contemporary studies.



Another prob I have with Wardaugh is he doesn't mention (isn't aware of?)

what a study excludes.



beth



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 9 Apr 1996 12:45:39 -0400

From:  "M. Lynne Murphy"  104LYN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MUSE.ARTS.WITS.AC.ZA 

Subject: Re: Interesting Free Offer...........



  I reccommend every member of the list send the spam back to its point of

  origin. Even if there's nobody at that address anymore, in this case it

  could annoy AOL into doing something about it. I know they have a policy

  against commercial use, and I'm sure the guy who sent the spam knows it too.

  BTW, it's not just ADS-L; I'm on the Richard Thompson list, and got it

  there too. Twice.



the reason why i was in favor of closing the list to outside posters

is because you can't send nasty notes back to the posters of these

damned magazine ads. you spent your time crafting some really

offensive response to these guys, only to have it turn up back in

your own mailbox.



the fact that you have to fax (or something) to take advantage of

their offer indicates that they never had any intention of reading

any e-mail responses.



as natalie said, anyone who wants to post to ads-l from multiple

addresses only needs to subscribe w/ the no-mail option at those

addresses. that individual effort by those who want such

accessibility would be a nice gesture toward the rest of us who are

sick of ads being used as a junk-mail slot. sure, we have delete

buttons, but we also have limits on how much mail our mailboxes can

store and how much time we can spend reading things before we

realize they're not from legitimate ads-lers. it's also a matter of

principle. i want the spammers to know we (ok, i) don't like them.



lynne



---------------------------------------------------------------------

M. Lynne Murphy              104lyn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]muse.arts.wits.ac.za

Department of Linguistics            phone: 27(11)716-2340

University of the Witwatersrand          fax: 27(11)716-8030

Johannesburg 2050

SOUTH AFRICA



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 9 Apr 1996 13:56:56 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: P.S.



(This p.s. may end up ahead of the posting it's a ps to since our

overloaded, clogged system has been spitting mail out erratically

the past couple of days.) I got a note today from Eric Thomas, the

person who wrote listserv, saying that the spam-filter in the next

version of listserv should be able to catch spam even on the lists

that are early in the alphabet.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 9 Apr 1996 13:52:21 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Interesting Free Offer...........



  I AM IN THE SAME POSITION AS BETHANY AND AGREE WITH HER VOTE ON THIS

  MATTER. IT IS REALLY EASY TO HIT THE "DELETE" BUTTON!



Hmm. Since the "votes" seem to be running about 50-50, I'm not sure

what to do. Personally I don't care how much junk mail I get since I

have plenty of space for incoming mail and have all list mail or error

mail filtered into files that stay out of the way of my personal mail.

But I can understand how spam can cause problems for some people --

e.g., people paying for online time and downloading spam-swollen list

mail.



Which one of the following would most of you prefer:



(1) Leave the new setting ('send=private') and let me know any other

addresses any of you might send list mail from. I can make sure that

you will be able to send from any address you let me know about. (I'll

do a 'quiet add' of the addresses and a 'quiet set nomail' for them so

that you won't even have to get the clutter of the "welcome to ADS-L"

and "your settings have been changed" messages.)



(2) Change the list setting back to 'send=public' and set a size limit

of two hundred lines. Any message longer than that will bounce. That

would catch all lengthy chunks of spam. It would also catch any legitimate

posting of that length, but we have very few postings that long.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 9 Apr 1996 20:22:16 -0400

From:  Jeutonne Brewer  jpbrewer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HAMLET.UNCG.EDU 

Subject: Re: Interesting Free Offer...........



Change the list setting back to "send=public'



Changing settings for other lists is really a both if you need

to change them from time to time. I just had a problem with a

university account. My email was not being that old account to

my current one. I admit that the problem was that my set forward

command was somehow correct. However, before anyone figured

out what the problem was, a number of message (I have no idea how

many) disappeared into cyberspace. The less we have to set--and

reset--the more friendly the electronic waves are. The delete

(or reply then delete) button takes care of unwanted messages.



**************************************************

* jpbrewer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]hamlet.uncg.edu           *

*   Jeutonne P. Brewer             *

*   Department of English           *

*   University of North Carolina at Greensboro *

*   Greensboro, NC 27412            *

**************************************************



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 9 Apr 1996 20:08:06 -0500

From:  "Richard A. Spears"  raspears[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SPRYNET.COM 

Subject: Re: Interesting Free Offer...........



Natalie Maynor wrote:

 

 

  Which one of the following would most of you prefer:

 

  (1) Leave the new setting ('send=private')



  (2) Change the list setting back to 'send=public' and set a size limit

  of two hundred lines.

   --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



I vote for (2).



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 9 Apr 1996 23:01:34 -0400

From:  Robert Swets  bobbo[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]BCFREENET.SEFLIN.LIB.FL.US 

Subject: Re: Interesting Free Offer...........



On Tue, 9 Apr 1996, Jeutonne Brewer wrote:



  Change the list setting back to "send=public'



Please don't. Anyone who wants to join may join and post.



*******************************************************************************

                 __ __

COLOR ME ORANGE         | | | | Voice: 954-782-4582; Fax: 954-782-4535

R. D. Swets (Archbishop Bob)   | | | | Zion Lutheran School:  954-421-3146,

170 N.E. 18th Street    ______| | | |______  Ext. 135;  Fax: 954-421-4250

Pompano Beach, FL 33060 (________) (________) Ft. Lauderdale Sun-Sentinel:

bobbo[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us        954-356-4635; Fax: 954-356-4676

*******************************************************************************



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 9 Apr 1996 23:32:08 -0400

From:  "Peter L. Patrick"  PPATRICK[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GUVAX.ACC.GEORGETOWN.EDU 

Subject: Re: Interesting Free Offer...........



Natalie,

    while we wait for the new version of listserv, I'd prefer the

first "private" setting, though not vehemently. How many accounts can

people commonly send mail from? even if it's 5-6, it sounds easy

enough to set them all up.

    "Yes, I Voted"

    --plp



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 8 Apr 1996 to 9 Apr 1996

**********************************************





There are 8 messages totalling 243 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Return to spammer (2)

 2. Interesting Free Offer........... (4)

 3. The burning issue of avoiding spam

 4. Junk Mail



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 9 Apr 1996 23:30:28 -0500

From:  Dan Goodman  goodman[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FREENET.MSP.MN.US 

Subject: Return to spammer



Spammers have been known to use as their return addresses the email

accounts of people who've complained about them. They most emphatically

are likely to use fake addresses.



Dan Goodman goodman[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]freenet.msp.mn.us



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 10 Apr 1996 06:13:29 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Interesting Free Offer...........



Counting votes posted on the list and votes sent to me in direct mail,

we seem to be about 50-50 again in 'send=private' vs 'send=public'.

Actually the vote is 4-2 in favor of 'send=private' if I count only

those votes that have come in since I asked for a decision between (1)

'send=private' and (2) size limitation, but I'm adding Ron and Bethany

to the 'send=private' opponents based on their earlier list comments.



If others of you have opinions, please make them known either on the list

or in direct mail to me. As I've said many times, I see being "list owner"

as meaning list mechanic -- taking care of whatever needs to be taken care

of to keep the list running. I don't see the list owner (I hate that label)

as being the one to make decisions about list style, content, whatever.

That's up to the subscribers, IMHO.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



P.S. There's another option that I haven't mentioned because I see some

disadvantages of it. But in the spirit of muddy water, I might as well

toss it in now. I could change the list settings to 'send=editor' and

then have my name/address as first editor and ads-l[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu as

second editor. Since any of the editors can post to a list, that would

mean that anybody on the list of subscribers could post. For somebody

not on the list of subscribers, the attempted posting would be sent to

the first editor -- me. I would then forward it to the list. The only

way this would differ from 'send=private' is that mail from non-subscribers

would come to me instead of bouncing back to the sender. Then I could post

it on the list. The main disadvantage I see to this is that any time I'm

away from my computer, mail from a non-subscriber would sit and wait.

Normally that wouldn't be more than a few hours, but sometimes when I'm

traveling it could be a few days. (That's why I need to learn Perl

scripting so that I can automate the ftp/gopher/web filing I do every

morning for ADS. Would some of you like to teach me Perl so that the

ADS archives won't be behind when I'm away from net access?)



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 10 Apr 1996 10:20:15 -0400

From:  Ronald Butters  amspeech[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ACPUB.DUKE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Interesting Free Offer...........



On Tue, 9 Apr 1996, M. Lynne Murphy wrote:



  the reason why i was in favor of closing the list to outside posters

  is because you can't send nasty notes back to the posters of these

  damned magazine ads. you spent your time crafting some really

  offensive response to these guys, only to have it turn up back in

  your own mailbox.

 

  the fact that you have to fax (or something) to take advantage of

  their offer indicates that they never had any intention of reading

  any e-mail responses.



*****Obviously, there is no point in writing messages to people who will

never read them! But the obvious solution to your personal problem would

seem to have been, "don't write the messages," and not "change the system."



  as natalie said, anyone who wants to post to ads-l from multiple

  addresses only needs to subscribe w/ the no-mail option at those

  addresses. that individual effort by those who want such

  accessibility would be a nice gesture toward the rest of us who are

  sick of ads being used as a junk-mail slot.



*****If this is what the group decides is desirable, then I can do it. I

belong to another group that functions in that way, and I can deal with

it. Especially now that the fait is very much accompli.



  sure, we have delete

  buttons, but we also have limits on how much mail our mailboxes can

  store and how much time we can spend reading things before we

  realize they're not from legitimate ads-lers. it's also a matter of

  principle. i want the spammers to know we (ok, i) don't like them.

 



*****If you want to let them know that you don't like them, then jam their

mailboxes. They will never know that you don't like them if they can't

get access in the first place.

    As for wasting time, I am sure you have spent much more time

reading and writing these messages--dealing with the BURNING issue of how

to rearrange the list to punish spammers and free us from the three or

four such messages we may get in a month--than you have dealing with

those very spammers in the past year! And now I am asked to waste even

more time

figuring out how tosubscribe to the list from my other e-mail account.

And of course Natalie is asked to waste her time deciding which way to go

with this issue--she has already (somewhat precipitously, in my view)

changed things already (to my inconvenience), and I guess I won't ask her

to change it back again. Sometimes, if it ain't broke more than a little

bit, there is no point in trying to fix it and risk breaking it a little

bit more.



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 10 Apr 1996 10:26:20 -0400

From:  Ronald Butters  amspeech[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ACPUB.DUKE.EDU 

Subject: The burning issue of avoiding spam



Please go with option (1)! Option (2) would prevent anybody from posting

an essay, right? And several people (inclufing me) he promised to do so.

also, not all spam is long.



I vote for option (1). My other address is  RonButters[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com . Thanks

for using your valuable time to deal with this very trivial issue.





On Tue, 9

Apr 1996, Natalie Maynor wrote:



  Hmm. Since the "votes" seem to be running about 50-50, I'm not sure

  what to do. Personally I don't care how much junk mail I get since I

  have plenty of space for incoming mail and have all list mail or error

  mail filtered into files that stay out of the way of my personal mail.

  But I can understand how spam can cause problems for some people --

  e.g., people paying for online time and downloading spam-swollen list

  mail.

 

  Which one of the following would most of you prefer:

 

  (1) Leave the new setting ('send=private') and let me know any other

  addresses any of you might send list mail from. I can make sure that

  you will be able to send from any address you let me know about. (I'll

  do a 'quiet add' of the addresses and a 'quiet set nomail' for them so

  that you won't even have to get the clutter of the "welcome to ADS-L"

  and "your settings have been changed" messages.)

 

  (2) Change the list setting back to 'send=public' and set a size limit

  of two hundred lines. Any message longer than that will bounce. That

  would catch all lengthy chunks of spam. It would also catch any legitimate

  posting of that length, but we have very few postings that long.

   --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)

 



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 10 Apr 1996 11:14:59 -0400

From:  ALICE FABER  faber[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HASKINS.YALE.EDU 

Subject: Junk Mail



In response to, I believe, Ron Butters' comment that all we have to do is hit

delete when we get junk mail, I have to say that it's not that simple. For

those of us who get ADS-L in digest form, hitting delete when we see junk mail

in the digest means that we miss legitimate posts as well.



In response to Bethany's suggestion about emailing postmasters, unless you're

*very* good at reading headers, that's a dangerous thing to do. The magazine

spam that we got hit with twice is notorious all over the net, and has been

the subject of much discussion on the net-abuse usenet groups. Essentially,

what the perpetrator does is forge return addresses. The From line might have

indicated that it came from an AOL account, but that was a forgery. For more

than you ever wanted to know on this subject, read news.admin.net-abuse.misc.

This is a chronic net problem, that seems to crop up more on holidays (when

people assume that the net.police will be off holidaying).



Finally, I would strongly support a maximum posting length of 200 lines (or

even less). That would unequivocally bounce this spam. I suspect the only

overly long postings from ADS-L regulars would be postings quoting a previous

posting in its entirety. Longer legitimate postings (like, for instance, the

government funding updates) can be placed on the web site, with a short

pointer sent of to the list.



Alice Faber

faber[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]haskins.yale.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 10 Apr 1996 12:27:11 -0400

From:  BARBARA HILL HUDSON  BHHUDSON[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GROVE.IUP.EDU 

Subject: Re: Interesting Free Offer...........



re: Interesting offer





  I vote for second choice



Barbara Hill Hudson

bhhudson[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]grove.iup.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 10 Apr 1996 11:26:39 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Interesting Free Offer...........



  And now I am asked to waste even

  more time

  figuring out how tosubscribe to the list from my other e-mail account.



No you don't:



  Date:     Wed, 10 Apr 1996 10:39:28 -0400

  From: "L-Soft list server at UGA (1.8b)"  LISTSERV[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu 

  Subject:   Output of your job "maynor"

 

    quiet add ads-l RonButters[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com Ron Butters

  Ron Butters  RonButters[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM  has been added to the ADS-L list. No

  notification has been sent.

 

    quiet set ads-l nomail for RonButters[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com

  ADS-L: subscription options updated for RonButters[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM.

  One entry updated. No notification has been sent.



I've also added the menagerie of machines at Vermont. And I'll add any

other address variations anybody wants me to add.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 10 Apr 1996 20:37:47 -0700

From:  William King  WFKING[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Return to spammer



The set-up of this sounds very much like a telephone scam that has been

reported in Arizona. Someone calls for your number. It isn't necessary.

Look at what this "John Chen" said. It's a big operation. It recruits

anonymously via email (internet) yet the unnamed head will call you up

to selectively allow you into this inner group of magazine subscribers.



Haven't you already been solicited by non-covert magazine sellers?

Sorry I haven't posted a warning sooner. I haven't had the time and

have simply assumed that this would be an obvious lead-in to a more

serious scam, credit card fraud. Watch out for the phone angle.



I've been deleting 9 out of 10 posts. How can busy "John Chen" pull

this off then spend time writing multiple pages.



Ciao! I've blown my time limit as it is!!!



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 9 Apr 1996 to 10 Apr 1996

***********************************************





There are 13 messages totalling 428 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Virus alert: see also second note to follow

 2. Virus alert II

 3. word-eating virus! (3)

 4. Kiss and Ride (3)

 5. query on Cockney (3)

 6. a funny story

 7. story, part 2



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 11 Apr 1996 01:29:33 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Virus alert: see also second note to follow



From: B. L. Radford

   Information Center Analyst

   8-571-5026 / (919) 461-5026

SUBJECT: Deadly Virus !!!



FYI - be sure to read !!!



From: R. L. Bond, Consultant Liaison

   SystemView Information Bureau

   Dept/H15 Bldg/503 Loc/B324

Subject: FYI - DO NOT DOWNLOAD PKZIP300

fyi





     DO NOT DOWNLOAD ANY FILE NAMED PKZIP300 REGARDLESS OF THE

     EXTENSION!!!





WARNING!!!!! Read the following and take note for those of you who

access

the web and ftp sites. . . BE WARE!!! Notify your friends and family

and

total strangers too!!! We don't want to deal with anything like this

what-so-ever!!!

   



   Hi all,

We work closely with the military and received this message from a very

reliable source in DC this morning.







     A NEW Trojan Horse Virus has emerged on the internet with the

name

     PKZIP300.ZIP, so named as to give the impression that this

file is

     a new version of the PKZIP software used to "ZIP" (compress)

files.



     DO NOT DOWNLOAD this file under any circumstances!!! If you

install

     or expand this file, the virus WILL wipe your hard disk clean

and

     affect modems at 14.4 and higher. This is an extremely

destructive

     virus and there is NOT yet a way of cleaning up this one.



    REPEAT: DO NOT DOWNLOAD ANY FILE NAMED PKZIP300 REGARDLESS OF

THE

    EXTENSION!!!



Thanks,

John Scheible

scheible[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]vnet.ibm.com

Regards,

Bill



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 11 Apr 1996 01:31:39 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Virus alert II



The report of the PKZIP300 virus is correct. It's not a hoax, and

it's very nasty. It's a "trojan horse" virus that will try to reformat

your hard drive (thus erasing anything that's already on your hard

drive). It has been around since May/June 1995 but has popped up again

rather often in recent weeks.



That said, you're not likely to be in much danger. If you don't know

how to download an executable file from a BBS or dubious FTP site, then

you can't get this virus. (And if you're a Mac user, you wouldn't be

able to get the virus without some serious effort.) If you use your VAX

or Unix account for routine e-mail, Web browsing, etc., you're not at

any risk at all. If you do know how to download files, and if you

download them only from responsible academic and commercial sites, then

you're more likely to be struck by lightning or to win the Arizona

lottery than to contract a virus. (Just stay away from BBS sites, in

which you probably don't have the slightest interest anyway.)



The hook is that version 2.x of PKZIP is a very good and necessary

utility for PC users who wish to download and use compressed (or

"pkzipped") files. So these users now see that version 3.x of PKZIP

(which is what PKZIP300 means) is available and figure that it must be a

new, better update. They download it to their personal machines, and

then--disaster.



--Carl Berkhout



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 11 Apr 1996 05:21:39 -0400

From:  "M. Lynne Murphy"  104LYN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MUSE.ARTS.WITS.AC.ZA 

Subject: word-eating virus!



look out! this virus seems to spontaneously reanalyse words!





  WARNING!!!!! Read the following and take note for those of you who

  access

  the web and ftp sites. . . BE WARE!!!



i'm being as ware as i can!



this reminds me of the time i overheard on a bus: "if you kids

don't start being have, you won't get any treats at grandma's."

(of course, when i tell this story to my students here, they roll

their eyes as if to say, 'those americans shouldn't be allowed to

talk at all.'



lynne



---------------------------------------------------------------------

M. Lynne Murphy              104lyn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]muse.arts.wits.ac.za

Department of Linguistics            phone: 27(11)716-2340

University of the Witwatersrand          fax: 27(11)716-8030

Johannesburg 2050

SOUTH AFRICA



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 11 Apr 1996 08:35:21 -0400

From:  Wayne Glowka  wglowka[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAIL.GAC.PEACHNET.EDU 

Subject: Kiss and Ride



Although I got no kiss this morning when my wife dropped me off at work

(first time I have ever been dropped off), I was reminded of the drop-off

circles at subway stations in Washington, DC, which are called"Kiss and

Rides." Is that term used anywhere else? Can any beltway insider or

outsider confirm the spelling or the use of the phrase as a plural?





Wayne Glowka

Professor of English

Director of Research and Graduate Student Services

Georgia College

Milledgeville, GA 31061

912-453-4222

wglowka[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mail.gac.peachnet.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 11 Apr 1996 09:28:02 -0500

From:  The Tigger  koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UIC.EDU 

Subject: Re: Kiss and Ride



Wayne spake thusly:

 Although I got no kiss this morning when my wife dropped me off at work

 (first time I have ever been dropped off), I was reminded of the drop-off

 circles at subway stations in Washington, DC, which are called"Kiss and

 Rides." Is that term used anywhere else?



It's used in Chicagoland. =^]



;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

;Kathleen M. O'Neill ... Language Laboratory Technician I  ;

;koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uic.edu ... u55354[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uicvm.cc.uic.edu        ;

;:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::;

;University of Illinois at Chicago ... Language Laboratory ;

;703 South Morgan Street (M/C 042) ... Grant Hall, Room 311 ;

;Chicago, IL 60607-7025                  ;

;312.996.8838 or 312.996.8836 ... 312.996.5501 FAX    ;

;URL: http://www2.uic.edu/depts/langlab/          ;

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 11 Apr 1996 10:40:13 -0500

From:  Cukor-Avila Patricia  pcavila[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JOVE.ACS.UNT.EDU 

Subject: query on Cockney



One of our grad students here at Univ. of North Texas sent the following

message:



"Do you know of any good book (or ariticle or dictionary) giving

a 1-2 page definition/history of the Cockney dialect?"



Can anybody give me any info on this? Thanks in advance.



--Patricia Cukor-Avila

pcavila[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]jove.acs.unt.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 11 Apr 1996 08:40:41 -0700

From:  Peter McGraw  pmcgraw[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CALVIN.LINFIELD.EDU 

Subject: Re: Kiss and Ride



As a former New York commuter, I know "Kiss and Ride" (or "Kiss 'n Ride"?)

is used on signs at some suburban commuter train or bus stations in the

Greater NYC area, but I can't remember where. An extension of "Park and

Ride," where you can leave your car all day, "Kiss and Ride" identifies a

passenger loading zone where someone can drop a commuter off at the

station but not park the car. I can't confirm a nominalization or a

pluralization, or for that matter any spoken use of the term.



Peter McGraw

Linfield College

McMinnville, OR



On Thu, 11 Apr 1996, Wayne Glowka wrote:



  Although I got no kiss this morning when my wife dropped me off at work

  (first time I have ever been dropped off), I was reminded of the drop-off

  circles at subway stations in Washington, DC, which are called"Kiss and

  Rides." Is that term used anywhere else? Can any beltway insider or

  outsider confirm the spelling or the use of the phrase as a plural?

 

 

  Wayne Glowka

  Professor of English

  Director of Research and Graduate Student Services

  Georgia College

  Milledgeville, GA 31061

  912-453-4222

  wglowka[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mail.gac.peachnet.edu

 



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 11 Apr 1996 11:46:02 -0400

From:  Ronald Butters  amspeech[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ACPUB.DUKE.EDU 

Subject: Re: word-eating virus!



On Thu, 11 Apr 1996, M. Lynne Murphy wrote:



"I am being have [hejv]" was reported years ago as a child-language

acquistion reanalysis (maybe by Charles Hockett in his COURSE IN MODERN

LINGUISTICS [c.1958]?), but this is the first adult usge I've ever heard

reported. Seems highly unlikely to me from a nonironic adult, but I don't

doubt that Ms. Murphy heard what she heard.



Anybody else ever heard this from an adult anywhere else in the world? Or "I

am being ware"? (To me, "being ware" seems pragmatically unlikely, like, "I am

lurking in the park!")



  look out! this virus seems to spontaneously reanalyse words!    

    WARNING!!!!! Read the following and take note for those of you who

    access

    the web and ftp sites. . . BE WARE!!!

 

  i'm being as ware as i can!

 

  this reminds me of the time i overheard on a bus: "if you kids

  don't start being have, you won't get any treats at grandma's."

  (of course, when i tell this story to my students here, they roll

  their eyes as if to say, 'those americans shouldn't be allowed to

  talk at all.'

 

  lynne

 

  ---------------------------------------------------------------------

  M. Lynne Murphy              104lyn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]muse.arts.wits.ac.za

  Department of Linguistics            phone: 27(11)716-2340

  University of the Witwatersrand          fax: 27(11)716-8030

  Johannesburg 2050

  SOUTH AFRICA

 



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 11 Apr 1996 10:25:04 -0600

From:  Bruce Gelder  bgelder[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CAMEL.CORP.ES.COM 

Subject: Re: query on Cockney



 "Do you know of any good book (or ariticle or dictionary) giving

 a 1-2 page definition/history of the Cockney dialect?"

 

 Can anybody give me any info on this? Thanks in advance.



The Merriam-Webster New Book of Word Histories (ISBN 0-87779-603-3)

has a listing for "cockney" and gives just over a page of interesting

information, although of course it focuses on the word itself more

than on the dialect.



Bruce Gelder (bgelder[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]es.com)



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 11 Apr 1996 12:12:40 -0500

From:  Katherine Catmull  kate[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]BGA.COM 

Subject: Re: word-eating virus!



On Thu, 11 Apr 1996, Ronald Butters wrote:



  "I am being have [hejv]" was reported years ago as a child-language

  acquistion reanalysis (maybe by Charles Hockett in his COURSE IN MODERN

  LINGUISTICS [c.1958]?), but this is the first adult usge I've ever heard

  reported. Seems highly unlikely to me from a nonironic adult, but I don't

  doubt that Ms. Murphy heard what she heard.



My recollection from my youth with five younger brothers and sisters is

that repeating baby-talk can go from ironic to standard rather easily. It

can go so far that you find yourself unconsciously referring to

"p'sghetti" or "chocolate squirrel ice cream" while with adult (or in my

case teenage) companions--or counting time in "Batmans," say ("How long

till we're theeere?" "About two Batmans")--which can be embarrassing to

say the least. Perhaps that was the case with this woman.



Kate Catmull          kate[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]bga.com



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 11 Apr 1996 14:24:31 -0400

From:  "Bethany K. Dumas, U of Tennessee"  dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Re: query on Cockney



On Thu, 11 Apr 1996, Cukor-Avila Patricia asked about a "good book (or

ariticle or dictionary) giving a 1-2 page definition/history of the

Cockney dialect"



A starting point might be:



Hughes, Arthur, and Peter Trudgill. 1979. English accents and dialects.

London: Edward Arnold. Pp. 39-43. (A tape accompanied the book when it

was published.)



Bethany



Bethany K. Dumas, J.D., Ph.D.  | Applied Linguistics, Language & Law

Dep't of English, UT, Knoxville | EMAIL: dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu

415 McClung Tower        | (423) 974-6965 | FAX (423) 974-6926

Knoxville, TN 37996-0430    | See Webpage at http://ljp.la.utk.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 11 Apr 1996 14:34:00 -0600

From:  Ellen Johnson  EJOHNSON[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MSUVX1.MEMPHIS.EDU 

Subject: a funny story



Hey, y'all. I've been taking a short vacation from e-mail, but this motivated

me to sign back on and perhaps brighten your day a bit.



Ellen ejohnson[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cc.memphis.edu



 From: UMEM::DLPATTON  i.e. dlpatton[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cc.memphis.edu 8-APR-1996 09:53:16.71

 Subj: Jenni made me do it.

 

 Dr. Johnson,

 

 Jenni told me to e-mail this little story to you.

 

           THE DEMONSTRATIVES OF DREARYVILLE

 

     Once upon a time, long, long ago, there lived a family of four in a

 land called Drearyville. This faraway land got its name because of a horrible

 curse it would put on college students in a place called America in the distant

 future. This particular family's name was the DEMONSTRATIVE family. There

 were Father Demonstrative named Se, Mother Demonstrative named Seo, and their

 two children, [thorn ash t] and [thorn a]. The children were born with thorns

 in their heads that would last throughout their lives. It was very painful.

 

    Mr. and Mrs. Demonstrative couldn't bear to see their kids suffering so much,

 so they decided to join them in their agony. They had heard of a new surgical

 procedure called ANALOGY that could be used to insert THORNS into their heads,

 and they will be able to relate to the children's pain. Well, Se and Seo went

 to Grammar Methodist Hospital to have their S's LEVELED to thorns. The

 children were deeply moved by this act of love.

 

    Somehow, President Bill INFLECTION got word of the story, and Mr. [thorn

 e] Demonstrative was crowned GENERALIZED DEFINITE ARTICLE FOR ALL GENDERS,

 NUMBER, AND CASES. He took this honor in stride, showing no signs of STRESS.

 The more severely inflicted of the kids, [thorn ash t], was honored for her

 bravery by being crowned DEMONSTRATIVE PRONOUN FOR ALL GENDERS AND CASES.

 Because she was underage, this was for SINGULAR forms only. To lessen the pain

 for the younger child, [thorn a], his "a" was rounded off to "o" and a smooth

 "s" was added for extra support.

     This is why the DEMONSTRATIVES ILLUSTRATE BETTER THAN ANY OTHER PART OF

 SPEECH HOW ENGLISH HAS PROGRESSIVELY RID ITSELF OF GRAMMATICAL COMPLEXITIES.

 

 Tune in next time for more thrilling adventures in........NOUNSENSE!

 

 Dana



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 11 Apr 1996 14:36:22 -0600

From:  Ellen Johnson  EJOHNSON[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MSUVX1.MEMPHIS.EDU 

Subject: story, part 2



forwarded from dlpatton[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cc.memphis.edu

 From: UMEM::DLPATTON   11-APR-1996 14:24:18.09

 Subj: sequel

 

 Here is the sequel to the Demonstratives

 

               NOUNSENSE

 

     On the opposite side of Drearyville from the Demonstratives lived the

 Noun family. There were Mr. Case, Ms. Gender (she kept her maiden name), and

 Aunt Number along with her four children. One day, the entire family was

 meandering through the hills on the way to a picnic while singing "The Hills

 are Alive with the Sound of Progressive Simplification," when along came a

 giant spaceship! Two alien robots emerged named Chaucer 1 and Syncopated Jim.

 Chaucer 1 ordered Mr. Case to empty the picnic basket and hand over the

 contents. Mr. Case emptied all the Dative singulars except for a few into the

 robot's hands. The remaining ones were in the basket so long that they became

 petrified.

     Syncopated Jim went through Mr. Case's pockets and stole all his weak

 "es's," but accidentally dropped the s's back into the pocket. Chaucer 1

 retreated back into the spaceship to visit the little robot's room,, so

 Syncopated Jim continued to take over. He pointed a laser gun at Ms. Gender and

 levelled the psychological and phonetic aspects of her grammatical gender by

 destroying her inflectional endings.

     That takes us to Aunt Number and Children 1, 2, 3, and 4. After

 Syncopated Jim had taken care of Ms. Gender, two robot dogs came beeping out of

 the spaceship. Their names were Masculine A and Neuter A. (Neuter A is no

 longer able to procreate!) They had vacuum-like mouths that absorbed Middle

 English nouns into their declensions. The children were left alone because

 they each had a good excuse for why they shouldn't be absorbed. Child 1 said

 that his declension compromised umlaut plural. Child 2 said that she had

 neuter monosyllables with long stems having unchanged, or apparently unchanged,

 plurals. Child 3 said that he had an N-stem and weak declension. Finally,

 Child 4 said that he had double plurals. They grew up and lived happily ever

 after in Modern Englishville.

 

 THE END.

 

 See you Sunday!

 

 Dana



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 10 Apr 1996 to 11 Apr 1996

************************************************





There are 5 messages totalling 87 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. childhood terms (3)

 2. Kiss and Ride

 3. query on Cockney



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 12 Apr 1996 01:03:12 -0700

From:  Kim & Rima McKinzey  rkm[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SLIP.NET 

Subject: Re: childhood terms



 "chocolate squirrel ice cream" while with adult (or in my

 case teenage) companions--or counting time in "Batmans,"



OK, I give up. What means "chocolate squirrel ice cream" or "Batmans"?



Rima



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 12 Apr 1996 07:56:38 -0400

From:  "Connie C. Eble"  cceble[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]EMAIL.UNC.EDU 

Subject: Re: Kiss and Ride



Wayne,

 At least one elementary school in Chapel Hill, NC, has a kiss and drive

lane that goes right up to the front of the building.

                 Connie Eble



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 12 Apr 1996 08:58:34 EDT

From:  Larry Horn  LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU 

Subject: Re: childhood terms



Rima asks,



  "chocolate squirrel ice cream" while with adult (or in my

  case teenage) companions--or counting time in "Batmans,"



 OK, I give up. What means "chocolate squirrel ice cream" or "Batmans"?



I can answer that one, although it wasn't my own childhood. The former is

kidspeak for 'chocolate swirl', i.e. vanilla injected with a vein of chocolate/

fudge. The latter refers to the use of television shows to measure time for

kids who know how long a given show lasts but haven't yet mastered the abstract

concept of 'half-hour' or 'hour'. For our kids it would have been two

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and now it's probably Power Rangers. Sort of

prisoners' use of cigarettes as medium of exchange.



Larry



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 12 Apr 1996 09:18:17 -0500

From:  Katherine Catmull  kate[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]BGA.COM 

Subject: Re: childhood terms



On Fri, 12 Apr 1996, Larry Horn wrote:



  I can answer that one, although it wasn't my own childhood. The former is

  kidspeak for 'chocolate swirl', i.e. vanilla injected with a vein of chocolate/

  fudge. The latter refers to the use of television shows to measure time for

  kids who know how long a given show lasts but haven't yet mastered the

abstract

  concept of 'half-hour' or 'hour'.



Yes, that's exactly right.



I have the rather eerie feeling that Larry is a long-lost brother.



Kate Catmull      kate[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]bga.com



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 12 Apr 1996 16:29:46 -0400

From:  Al Futrell  awfutr01[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HOMER.LOUISVILLE.EDU 

Subject: Re: query on Cockney



On Thu, 11 Apr 1996, Bruce Gelder wrote:



   "Do you know of any good book (or ariticle or dictionary) giving

   a 1-2 page definition/history of the Cockney dialect?"



My favorite is THE MUVVER TONGUE by Robert Barltrop and Jim Wolveridge,

both of whom are from the East End of London.



Al Futrell

-- awfutr01[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]homer.louisville.edu

-- http://www.louisville.edu/~awfutr01

Dept of Communication -- University of Louisville



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 11 Apr 1996 to 12 Apr 1996

************************************************





There are 3 messages totalling 161 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Perhaps of Interest

 2. Request for help on divergency (2)



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 14 Apr 1996 11:29:04 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Perhaps of Interest



I wrote him back asking if it was ok for me to forward this note to

ADS-L. He said yes.



  Date: Sat, 13 Apr 96 20:45:12 PDT

  From: Duane Campbell  dcamp[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]epix.net 

  Subject: Pool talk

  To: maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu

 

  Thank God for the Internet and Alta Vista. Where else could one find a group

  of people interested in dialect.

 

  I live in a small town (Towanda, population 4,000) in a rural county

  (population 60,000) in the hill country of Northeastern Pennsylvania. In this

  area lives an extended family, perhaps 3,000 in number, with an ancient and

  well documented history. Excepting modern emigration, most have lived within a

  five mile radius for over two hundred years.

 

  Although they were among the very first settlers in this area, because of

  their strange history they were socially isolated. They developed their own

  dialect. To the best of my knowledge, it has never been either studied or

  recorded.

 

  I have seen documentaries of the much studied Gullah dialect. I have no

  difficulty understanding it. But though I grew up here and attended school

  with Pools from kindergarten through high school, I cannot understand "Pool

  talk" in its pure form.

 

  I would guess there are no more than a score of elderly people who speak Pool

  talk as a primary language. There may be a hundred who can speak it if

  pressed. Though many Pools still have a recognizable accent, the dialect is

  nearly dead.

 

  I have tried to interest folklorists at Mansfield University (Mansfield PA) in

  making field recordings at least, but there has not been a whole lot of

  excitement. Don't they have any idle grad students?

 

  This is a small language pocket, but it is unique. Within a very few

  years the last speaker will die and the dialect will pass. Is there anyone in

  your organization who might be interested?

 

  If you are still reading, let me briefly tell you something about the Pools

  and the genesis of their language.

 

  After over two hundred years, there are still only two major family names:

  Johnson and Vanderpool, hence Pool. (This is a derogative term, but I use it

  because there is no PC equivalent.) There are half a dozen minor septs,

  but if your name is Strope or Chilson, you can get along in this county. If

  you are a Vanderpoole or Johnson, your life is considerably more difficult.

  This clan was an under class before the term became popular.

 

  Both families certainly started well. The progenitors of the clan were Sir

  William Johnson and Anthony Vanderpool.

 

  Johnson lived in upstate New York, where he befriended the local Indians. In

  fact, he befriended a lot of them, mostly female. He fathered several children

  with the sister of Joseph Brandt, the famous Iroquois chief during the

  Revolutionary war, and many more with other native wives. Johnson was a Major

  General during the French and Indian War and was knighted for his performance.

 

  Anthony Vanderpool was the scion of a well established Hudson River valley

  family. (President Van Buren was married to his niece.) He married a daughter

  of Sir William.

 

  Eventually both were ostracized by their families and wandered, with their

  extensive tribe, into the post-Revolutionary wildnerness of Bradford County.

  Here they met with royalist French, who had purchased several thousand acres

  and were establishing an asylum for the monarchy (a story of some repute

  locally) and with their minimal contingent of slaves.

 

  So the Pools are mostly English, Dutch, and Indian (Iroquois and Mohawk) with

  a smattering of French and Black. An interesting linguistic mix. And that

  linguistic mix, because of their social isolation, has persisted into the

  present times. But not much longer.

 

  This is worthy of study. Or at least of recording, so that someone might study

  it later.

 

  I tried to access the ADS home page, but, whether my system or yours, I got

  nothing. If you would like more information, I would be happy to supply it.

 

  I really do hope that someone would be interested in this. I do not have the

  credentials to do it myself.

 

  -------------------------------------

  Duane Campbell

  dcamp[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]epix.net

 

  In the beginning the Earth was without form and void.

  Why didn't they leave well enough alone?

 



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 14 Apr 1996 13:51:52 -0400

From:  Allan Metcalf  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Request for help on divergency



The following request came my way. If you can help this person, please do!

You'll need to use the individual's address, since the person isn't on our

list, but if your reply is of general interest, you might also want to post

it on ADS-L.

Thanks - Allan Metcalf

-------------------------------

From: LManuel103[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com

Subj:  divergency in writing and communication



Dear Prof. Allan, I am a doctoral student at Nova Southeastern University at

Ft. Lauderdale and also an elementary school teacher.  What sources can you

lead me to that say that slang and divergent writing styles among elementary

school children is a good thing? How do you feel. Any brief comments would

be appreciated. Thanks. P.S. You can also contact me at

losadam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]fcae.acast.nova.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 14 Apr 1996 14:07:14 -0400

From:  "M. Lynne Murphy"  104LYN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MUSE.ARTS.WITS.AC.ZA 

Subject: Re: Request for help on divergency



  Dear Prof. Allan, I am a doctoral student at Nova Southeastern University at

  Ft. Lauderdale and also an elementary school teacher.  What sources can you

  lead me to that say that slang and divergent writing styles among elementary

  school children is a good thing? How do you feel. Any brief comments would

  be appreciated. Thanks. P.S. You can also contact me at

  losadam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]fcae.acast.nova.edu



i'm no expert on this, but my mother's a first grade teacher (in the

u.s.), so i hear a bit about the controversies about readin', writin'

and prescriptivism. it seems to me that the position that slang or

dialectal style would be good (or at least not bad) in elementary

school writing seems consistent with the "whole language" program of

reading/writing teaching, which is focussed on getting kids to

produce original stories in writing from the earliest stages of their

 reading. thus, the stories (i got to read a lot of them over

christmas--70% are about the power rangers--ag!) are full of

orthographic, grammatical, and lexical weirdnesses, and these are

neither corrected nor discouraged. some of the non-standard lexical

stuff could be considered slang and some onomatopoeia.



i think the point is to get kids to be expressive in written

language, and the method is to not make them nervous about making

mistakes, so to welcome any style of language they choose. i know

there's a huge literature on "whole language" and i know that it

originated in new zealand, but that's all i can give in the way of

references. hope it's of some help.



lynne murphy



---------------------------------------------------------------------

M. Lynne Murphy              104lyn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]muse.arts.wits.ac.za

Department of Linguistics            phone: 27(11)716-2340

University of the Witwatersrand          fax: 27(11)716-8030

Johannesburg 2050

SOUTH AFRICA



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 12 Apr 1996 to 14 Apr 1996

************************************************





There are 8 messages totalling 291 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Labov Lecture

 2. LaCroix

 3. Kiss and Ride

 4. the athlete/politician's third-person (3)

 5. Request for help on divergency (2)



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 15 Apr 1996 08:29:48 CDT

From:  Randy Roberts  robertsr[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]EXT.MISSOURI.EDU 

Subject: Labov Lecture



          "Why Are American Dialects Diverging?"



   William Labov of the University of Pennsylvania will present a public

   lecture on the subject of dialect divergence at the 11th annual Peter

   Tamony Memorial Lecture on American Language at the University of

   Missouri-Columbia on Thursday, April 25th. Dr. Labov's talk will be

   held at 4:15 in Ellis Library Auditorium and will be followed by a

   public reception at the Western Historical Manuscript Collection. Dr.

   Labov, an internationally recognized scholar, has been professor of

   linguistics at the University of Pennsylvania since 1971 and director

   of its Linguistics Laboratory since 1976.



   The lecture series is named in honor of Peter Tamony of San Francisco

   whose voluminous collection of slang and colloquialism citations were

   donated to the Western Historical Manuscript Collection in 1985. This

   year's lecture, in addition, recognizes the receipt of the archives of

   the Linguistic Society of America by the Western Historical Manuscript

   Collection.



   For further information contact Nancy Lankford at Western Historical

   Manuscript Collection, 23 Ellis Library, University of Missouri,

   Columbia, Missouri 65201; phone (573) 882-6028; e-mail

   whmc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ext.missouri.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 15 Apr 1996 09:11:35 EST

From:  simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU

Subject: LaCroix



Perhaps this has been there all along, but yesterday was the first time

I bought my designer water in a six pack arrangement rather than in the

large single bottle.



On the carton side I'm told that LaCroix is "naturally sourced".



beth



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 15 Apr 1996 12:31:54 -0400

From:  "J. Chambers"  chambers[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]EPAS.UTORONTO.CA 

Subject: Re: Kiss and Ride



I didn't know Kiss and Ride was used so widely. David Crystal's

Cambridge Encyclopedia of the Eng Language has a photo of a Canadian

(borough of North York) sign for "Entrance to Kiss 'n' Ride" on page

284.              --Jack Chambers



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 15 Apr 1996 13:51:48 EDT

From:  Larry Horn  LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU 

Subject: the athlete/politician's third-person



I'd just been talking about an increasingly prevalent formation in my prag-

matics seminar when I got a phone call about the very same construction from a

reporter for the local newspaper investigating the same point (from a non-

theoretical point of view, to be sure). The construction is the one exempli-

fied in the following citations:



  "I'm just going to do the things Derek Harper has done for 10 years,

  and hopefully that will be enough." --Derek Harper, NY Knicks basketball

                             player

  "I just want to go to a place where Howard Johnson is going to put up

  some big numbers."  --Howard Johnson, baseball player



   "I gave Pittsburgh every opportunity to sign Neil O'Donnell", O'Donnell

  said.  [quarterback signed away from Pittsburgh by N. Y. Jets.]



   "It didn't kill Mike Stanley", Stanley said. [ex-Yankee catcher, on

  being dismissed and allowed to sign with Boston Red Sox]



   "My view is that I'm going to talk about Bob Dole, and I've been doing

  a little of that."  [Dole on "Nightline"]



   "Six of us grew up living in a basement apartment. That was Bob Dole's

  early life, and I'm proud of it, because we learned a lot about values,

  about honesty and decency and responsibility and integrity and self-

  reliance and loving your God, your family, your church, your community...

   [oops, almost drifted off there. Bob Dole, speech 3/14/96, Columbus OH]



Of course, this construction has now been notoriously linked to the one non-

athlete contributor above, but what I was wondering was how well established

this usage is (is there a paper, e.g. in American Speech or elsewhere, either

published or already in print, that deals with it?), and if not, whether any

other ADSers have some nice examples to contribute. My own hypotheses are

that it occurs primarily to mark a character-defining (rather than accidental

or "stage-level" property) of the individual in question [cf. the unlikelihood

of 'I'll have to take a break because Bob Dole needs to use the bathroom'] and

that the form of the name used corresponds to the way the speaker imagines

he (I have no instances of she) WOULD be referred to by a reporter, etc., in

the relevant context, but always FN + LN (Thus it's always "Bob Dole", not

"Dole" or "Robert Dole", "Mike Stanley", not "Stanley" or "Michael Stanley".)

  Note too that some of these examples violate "Principle C" of Chomsky's

Binding Theory (names and other referring expressions can't be bound) and

others don't, but all seem to involve a condition Ellen Prince discusses in

"Assumed Familiarity" scale ("Towards a Taxonomy of Given-New Information", in

_Radical Pragmatics_, ed. by P. Cole, 1981) predicting that speakers will use

an "evoked" expression, in particular a 1st or 2d person pronoun, rather than a

name, if s/he is in a position to do so, and that the use of a name in these

circumstances will implicate (by the usual Gricean mechanism) that the speaker

was NOT in a position to use the deictic pronoun. ANyway, I'd be interested in

further references, discussion, history, etc.





Larry



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 15 Apr 1996 14:44:23 -0400

From:  "M. Lynne Murphy"  104LYN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MUSE.ARTS.WITS.AC.ZA 

Subject: Re: the athlete/politician's third-person



    Note too that some of these examples violate "Principle C" of Chomsky's

  Binding Theory (names and other referring expressions can't be bound) and

  others don't, but all seem to involve a condition Ellen Prince discusses in

  "Assumed Familiarity" scale ("Towards a Taxonomy of Given-New Information", in

  _Radical Pragmatics_, ed. by P. Cole, 1981) predicting that speakers will use

  an "evoked" expression, in particular a 1st or 2d person pronoun, rather than a

  name, if s/he is in a position to do so, and that the use of a name in these

  circumstances will implicate (by the usual Gricean mechanism) that the speaker

  was NOT in a position to use the deictic pronoun. ANyway, I'd be interested in

  further references, discussion, history, etc.

 

so, is the gricean implication that the athlete/politician is having

an out-of-body experience or that they have a multiple personality

disorder? i guess what it's supposed to implicate is that the person

is a public person (responsible to the public, i guess), who

therefore doesn't possess him(her?)self solely enough to use the

first person. or does it implicate that, with regard to the

action/event described, the person named by name is a different

persona than the person doing the talking? in this case, is it used

to claim objectivity in describing one's own actions?



the interesting thing is how most of the examples include both 1st

and 3rd person self-reference:



   "Six of us grew up living in a basement apartment. That was

Bob Dole's early life, and I'm proud of it..."



but is bob dole proud of it? or can't bob dole have feelings? bob

dole had an early life, which can be observed--but "i" has the

intrapsychic relation to the event. am i on to something here?



it does seem a rather macho style, though. maybe i'm missing some

background assumptions about these men's relationships to themselves.



well, now i won't sleep.

lynne



---------------------------------------------------------------------

M. Lynne Murphy              104lyn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]muse.arts.wits.ac.za

Department of Linguistics            phone: 27(11)716-2340

University of the Witwatersrand          fax: 27(11)716-8030

Johannesburg 2050

SOUTH AFRICA



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 15 Apr 1996 16:05:47 -0400

From:  Jeutonne Brewer  jpbrewer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HAMLET.UNCG.EDU 

Subject: Re: Request for help on divergency



Connie Eble's book is surely the most recent source of information:



Slang and Sociability: In-Group Language among Colege Students.

Chapel Hill: U of NC Press, 1996.



According to the information from the press, Connie's book refutes the

notion of slang as a "lesser form of language...as she reveals the sources,

poetry, symbolism, and subtlety of informal slang expresses....Slang is

dynamic vocabulary that cannot be dismissed as deviant or marginal."

Jeutonne Brewer





**************************************************

* jpbrewer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]hamlet.uncg.edu           *

*   Jeutonne P. Brewer             *

*   Department of English           *

*   University of North Carolina at Greensboro *

*   Greensboro, NC 27412            *

**************************************************



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 15 Apr 1996 16:11:25 -0400

From:  Jeutonne Brewer  jpbrewer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HAMLET.UNCG.EDU 

Subject: Re: Request for help on divergency



Sorry about the typo in the title of Connie Eble's book. The

correct title is:

Slang and Sociability: In-Group Language among College Students.



**************************************************

* jpbrewer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]hamlet.uncg.edu           *

*   Jeutonne P. Brewer             *

*   Department of English           *

*   University of North Carolina at Greensboro *

*   Greensboro, NC 27412            *

**************************************************



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 15 Apr 1996 20:25:21 -0700

From:  SETH SKLAREY  crissiet[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IX.NETCOM.COM 

Subject: Re: the athlete/politician's third-person



Larry:



The construction is used by athletes/politicians who perceive of themselves

having a public persona, who realize that a lot of people either haven't

heard of them, or may be just turning on the TV or walking into the room and

not know who the person is who is talking, so they indicate who they are

since often the announcer doesn't or the editor edits it out. It has been

used for years by Miriam Alonso, a perennial

Miami politician who actually got elected a few years ago for one term to

the Miami City Commission (there, you have your woman to balance your stats!)



It's merely a technique to self-publicize one's name, and is usually

accompanied by an

overly-large ego. Miriam is the only one I ever saw who took it seriously

though.



crissit[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ix.netcom.com (SETH SKLAREY)







LARRY HORN wrote:



 I'd just been talking about an increasingly prevalent formation in my prag-

 matics seminar when I got a phone call about the very same construction from a

 reporter for the local newspaper investigating the same point (from a non-

 theoretical point of view, to be sure). The construction is the one exempli-

 fied in the following citations:

 

   "I'm just going to do the things Derek Harper has done for 10 years,

   and hopefully that will be enough." --Derek Harper, NY Knicks basketball

                              player

   "I just want to go to a place where Howard Johnson is going to put up

   some big numbers."  --Howard Johnson, baseball player

 

    "I gave Pittsburgh every opportunity to sign Neil O'Donnell", O'Donnell

   said.  [quarterback signed away from Pittsburgh by N. Y. Jets.]

 

    "It didn't kill Mike Stanley", Stanley said. [ex-Yankee catcher, on

   being dismissed and allowed to sign with Boston Red Sox]

 

    "My view is that I'm going to talk about Bob Dole, and I've been doing

   a little of that."  [Dole on "Nightline"]

 

    "Six of us grew up living in a basement apartment. That was Bob Dole's

   early life, and I'm proud of it, because we learned a lot about values,

   about honesty and decency and responsibility and integrity and self-

   reliance and loving your God, your family, your church, your community...

    [oops, almost drifted off there. Bob Dole, speech 3/14/96, Columbus OH]

 

 Of course, this construction has now been notoriously linked to the one non-

 athlete contributor above, but what I was wondering was how well established

 this usage is (is there a paper, e.g. in American Speech or elsewhere, either

 published or already in print, that deals with it?), and if not, whether any

 other ADSers have some nice examples to contribute. My own hypotheses are

 that it occurs primarily to mark a character-defining (rather than accidental

 or "stage-level" property) of the individual in question [cf. the unlikelihood

 of 'I'll have to take a break because Bob Dole needs to use the bathroom'] and

 that the form of the name used corresponds to the way the speaker imagines

 he (I have no instances of she) WOULD be referred to by a reporter, etc., in

 the relevant context, but always FN + LN (Thus it's always "Bob Dole", not

 "Dole" or "Robert Dole", "Mike Stanley", not "Stanley" or "Michael Stanley".)

   Note too that some of these examples violate "Principle C" of Chomsky's

 Binding Theory (names and other referring expressions can't be bound) and

 others don't, but all seem to involve a condition Ellen Prince discusses in

 "Assumed Familiarity" scale ("Towards a Taxonomy of Given-New Information", in

 _Radical Pragmatics_, ed. by P. Cole, 1981) predicting that speakers will use

 an "evoked" expression, in particular a 1st or 2d person pronoun, rather than a

 name, if s/he is in a position to do so, and that the use of a name in these

 circumstances will implicate (by the usual Gricean mechanism) that the speaker

 was NOT in a position to use the deictic pronoun. ANyway, I'd be interested in

 further references, discussion, history, etc.

 

 

 Larry

 

 



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 14 Apr 1996 to 15 Apr 1996

************************************************





There are 16 messages totalling 471 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. the athlete/politician's third-person

 2. LaCroix (4)

 3. Your help needed

 4. On those Bobdolisms (7)

 5.  No subject given 

 6. the politician's third person

 7. Writers wanted: American National Biography



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Apr 1996 01:16:35 -0400

From:  "Joan C. Cook"  cookj[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GUSUN.ACC.GEORGETOWN.EDU 

Subject: Re: the athlete/politician's third-person



On Mon, 15 Apr 1996, Larry Horn taxed us with the Bob Dole construction:



  My own hypotheses are

  that it occurs primarily to mark a character-defining (rather than accidental

  or "stage-level" property) of the individual in question [cf. the unlikelihood

  of 'I'll have to take a break because Bob Dole needs to use the bathroom']



Looking at these through a narrative trope, I'm reminded of Charlotte

Linde's observation that personal narrative "creates a distinction

between the narrator and the protagonist of the narrative, and interposes

a distance between them." (Life Stories, Oxford UP, 1993: 105)



One thing that strikes me about most of these quotations is that the

narrator is referring to something not just character-defining but also

defensible or admirable that the protagonist has done or will do, so

Linde's idea of interposing distance (which makes a great deal of sense

in her data) doesn't seem useful for these speakers.



And yes, they're clearly producing information at the wrong level on

Prince's scale, so they're violating the Quantity Maxim and, if they're

cooperating, ;-) they're generating some implicature.



If the implicature is that the speaker is not in a position to use a

deictic pronoun, perhaps it's because he's being his own spokesman --

i.e., instead of the guy's press secretary or agent or somebody answering

questions about the guy, the guy is put(ting himself) in that role. In

that case, he *would* need to interpose distance between the speaker and

the spoken-about (narrator and protagonist). And if he's addressing the

press (and these are all cases of that, right?), then it would make sense

for the speaker to refer to the spoken-about with the name the audience is

accustomed to hearing used by a spokesman.



And if the guy's talking about something character-defining,

defensible, and/or admirable about himself, maybe being principal and

animator concurrently seems to throw the spotlight too much on him

(yeah, like any of these guys have problems with that). What I'm

thinking (fuzzily) is that maybe these cases are something like "Chris

and myself," which also violates binding. Although, of course, if BD the

spokesman is different from BD the principal, there's no binding

violation, right? Kinda like Lynne's split-personality theory. :-)



--Joan



*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

Joan C. Cook                       Imagination is

Department of Linguistics                more important

Georgetown University                  than knowledge.

Washington, D.C., USA

cookj[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]gusun.georgetown.edu              --Albert Einstein

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Apr 1996 00:11:49 -0700

From:  Kim & Rima McKinzey  rkm[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SLIP.NET 

Subject: Re: LaCroix



 On the carton side I'm told that LaCroix is "naturally sourced".



Feh



Rima



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Apr 1996 08:41:34 -0400

From:  Wayne Glowka  wglowka[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAIL.GAC.PEACHNET.EDU 

Subject: Re: LaCroix



  On the carton side I'm told that LaCroix is "naturally sourced".

 



My guess is that there's missing verb in here that also gives us

"out-sourcing." Has anyone picked up on tense-inflected forms like simple

past "out-sourced" or simple present "out-sources"? (I was off the list

for a couple of months and may have missed a discussion on this word.)



Wayne Glowka

Professor of English

Director of Research and Graduate Student Services

Georgia College

Milledgeville, GA 31061

912-453-4222

wglowka[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mail.gac.peachnet.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Apr 1996 09:13:39 -0500

From:  mai kuha  mkuha[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU 

Subject: Your help needed



Fellow netters,



I'm a graduate student in Linguistics and I'm writing to ask for your

help. I am interested in how people carry out conversations (a

surprisingly complex task!). Currently, I'm researching how people

interpret what their conversational partners say.



The reason I'm contacting you is that I need data from speakers from a

variety of dialect areas. Would you be willing to respond to a

questionnaire over e-mail? If you are, please send me a note at



    mkuha[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]indiana.edu



and I'll e-mail the questionnaire to you.



Thanks in advance for your help!



Mai Kuha

Indiana University, Bloomington

e-mail: mkuha[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]indiana.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Apr 1996 09:25:42 EST

From:  simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU

Subject: Re: LaCroix



I don't remember whether I posted the material from Shepherd's Seeds

catalog where they humbly take credit for sourcing certain kinds of seeds

for their customers.



beth



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Apr 1996 11:21:55 EDT

From:  Larry Horn  LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU 

Subject: On those Bobdolisms



Thanks for all your comments. The points raised by Joan Cook are especially

a propos, and I think very much on the right track, or tracks (in that there

are a couple of different motivations involved). One point worth your con-

tinued attention is the following. The first example of this usage lots of

people (including me) come up with is the remark in Nixon's concession speech

to Pat Brown, following the 1962 California gubernatorial election. Half of us

(including me) remember him as having said (a), the other half (b)

 (a) You won't have Richard Nixon to kick around anymore.

 (b) You won't have Dick Nixon to kick around anymore.

I thought this was especially germane, since Nixon was Bob Dole's early mentor

and presumably his role model (until Watergate, prompting one of Dole's great

cracks, something like-- "There's Ford, Carter, and Nixon: See no evil, Hear

no evil, and Evil"). But when I tracked it down on the Web (you can hear his

concession in his own voice if you have the right software), what I heard him

say instead was



 (c) Just think how much you're gonna be missing. You don't have Nixon to kick

   around anymore.



The adaptation of "Nixon" into "Dick/Richard Nixon" is a retroactive accommoda-

tion to the current form of the self-promoter's third person. As for our

collective memory of Nixon's "don't" as "won't", that was evidently a simple

case of wishful thinking.



Larry



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Apr 1996 08:50:04 -0700

From:  Sylvia Swift  madonna[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]VIOLET.BERKELEY.EDU 

Subject: Re: LaCroix



  blah blah blah my designer water. . . . LaCroix[,] is "naturally sourced".



i would assume that that word choice has to do with the meanings of

"source" in french: place of origin and spring/creek. (remember the film

_manon of the spring_ from a few years back? the french title puns on

this double meaning). at least the marketing people spared us "naturally

sprung."



sylvia swift

madonna[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]violet.berkeley.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Apr 1996 09:54:01 -0600

From:  Bruce Gelder  bgelder[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CAMEL.CORP.ES.COM 

Subject: Re: On those Bobdolisms



Larry,



I don't know whether this would fit in with your examples or not, but I

caught myself last night telling my kids something along the lines of

"No, Dad WOULDN'T like you to do that...." When I realized what I'd said,

(and especially the comments that have been made here about the types of

people who talk in 3rd-person-ese, I felt dirty and wretched, as if I

had been transformed into the Wicked Witch of the West or (worse) a

Presidential candidate.



I hereby solemnly vow never to use the construction again...



Bruce Gelder

(bgelder[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]es.com)



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Apr 1996 12:46:40 EDT

From:  Larry Horn  LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU 

Subject: Re: On those Bobdolisms



Well, of course, parents are always using the third-person to refer to them-

selves when their kids are too young to (be expected to) understand the com-

plexities of deictic shifters (Give it to Daddy; that's Mommy's coat). That

would be a different, and presumably justified, motivation for overriding the

assumed familiarity scale, just as much as using a description to refer to

someone whose name you know but your addressee doesn't. As for the persis-

tence of the pattern when the kids are old enough, maybe it's an attempt to

evoke those years when things (esp. the chain of command) were simpler?   L



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Apr 1996 09:59:48 -0700

From:  Peter McGraw  pmcgraw[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CALVIN.LINFIELD.EDU 

Subject: Re: On those Bobdolisms



Wait, Bruce, don't feel dirty and wretched just yet! I think you've hit

on something more fundamental.



I wonder if "third-person-ese" may actually pre-date, in just the

context Bruce cites, the current fashion for its use by celebreties.



I remember both of my maternal grandparents using it with my sister and

me when we were little, and my mother (who didn't use it herself) quoting

my grandfather using it with her when SHE was little. The following

exchange, for example, was an attempt of his to ease her dissatisfaction

about the shape of her chin:



He: "Does Daddy's chin look all right?"

She: "Yes." (Thinking privately that in fact it shared the very

   qualities she was most dissatisfied with.)

He: "Well, yours is just like his."



I don't remember my paternal grandmother (from Iowa) ever "using this

usage." My (maternal) grandfather was raised in Texas, my grandmother in

Indian Territory/Oklahoma, and they both lived their adult lives in

Oklahoma City after a few years in "Hewston."



Of course this still doesn't answer the question of how the usage

originated and why, or how it has gotten transferred from the

intimate-family sphere to an arrogant/celebrity/public one.



Peter McGraw

Linfield College

McMinnville, OR





On Tue, 16 Apr 1996, Bruce Gelder wrote:



  Larry,

 

  I don't know whether this would fit in with your examples or not, but I

  caught myself last night telling my kids something along the lines of

  "No, Dad WOULDN'T like you to do that...." When I realized what I'd said,

  (and especially the comments that have been made here about the types of

  people who talk in 3rd-person-ese, I felt dirty and wretched, as if I

  had been transformed into the Wicked Witch of the West or (worse) a

  Presidential candidate.

 

  I hereby solemnly vow never to use the construction again...

 

  Bruce Gelder

  (bgelder[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]es.com)

 



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Apr 1996 13:22:53 -0400

From:  "M. Lynne Murphy"  104LYN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MUSE.ARTS.WITS.AC.ZA 

Subject: Re: On those Bobdolisms



the familial example that bruce gives (besides being parentese-ish

rather than bobdole-ish) sounds like it comes from a context where

"daddy" is contradicting a statement made about "daddy". is this the

same thing as the bobdolism? i don't think so. for example (made up,

but not unlikely):



X (to Y, with lynne present): Give that to Lynne, she'll do it.



Lynne: Oh no, she/Lynne won't.



there's an implication here that lynne doesn't like being

talked/presumed about, and i think we get this to some degree in the

nixon example too, but not in bob dole's usage. dole uses the third

person actively, rather than reactively, so its effect is rather

different for me.



lynne



---------------------------------------------------------------------

M. Lynne Murphy              104lyn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]muse.arts.wits.ac.za

Department of Linguistics            phone: 27(11)716-2340

University of the Witwatersrand          fax: 27(11)716-8030

Johannesburg 2050

SOUTH AFRICA



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Apr 1996 12:55:30 -0500

From:  Katherine Catmull  kate[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]BGA.COM 

Subject: Re: On those Bobdolisms



Two small thoughts.



1) This usage first jumped out at me during the heyday of Bo Jackson, the

baseball/football star. So this would be maybe five years ago. I had

heard isolated instances before, but Bo, like Bob Dole, seemed to use it

constantly.



2) Bo Jackson and Bob Dole (and Nixon, for that matter) strike me as

people who are essentially rather shy, or at least deeply uncomfortable

in public speaking.





Kate Catmull



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Apr 1996 14:25:56 EDT

From:  Larry Horn  LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU 

Subject: Re: On those Bobdolisms



But then there's Deion Sanders, also notorious for using the self-referential

third person, and who is no shrinking violet (in fact he's unshrinking enough

to have TWO nicknames, Neon Deion and Prime Time). He's also a two-sport pro,

like Bo was (same two, in fact), but somehow I don't think that's a relevant

variable. But Kate may be onto something in the association of this

dissociative tendency with insecurity about oneself.      Larry



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Apr 1996 16:47:49 -0400

From:  Allan Metcalf  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject:  No subject given 



else besides me been using the 1926-1985 index to American Speech,

now available at our Web site?



If so, have you noticed anything missing?



I have: the following article -



  Kelsie B. Harder. Coinages of the Type of Sit-In. 43:58-64.



All other articles from that issue are indexed, so this must have been an

oversight or an electronic glitch. Perhaps it is a reminder that this index

wasn't fully ready for publication, and the material for it had been prepared

by student assistants.



- Allan Metcalf



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Apr 1996 18:35:37 EDT

From:  Patricia Kuhlman  GAKBC[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CUNYVM.BITNET 

Subject: the politician's third person



  Pols have been using the third person self-referentially for a long

time. If you doubt this, check out Julius Caesar's commentaries on

the Gallic war and the civil war -- all written in the third person --

presumably to maximize exposure of his name, promote the illusion of

objectivity and get around the tricky issues of either false modesty or

self-aggrandizement if the first person is used.

  I thought the list might enjoy this historical tidbit. Caesar's use

of the third person to refer to himself was the first thing to come to

my mind when this topic first appeared some time back.



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Apr 1996 16:47:58 -0400

From:  Allan Metcalf  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Writers wanted: American National Biography



The following is a legitimate notice from the offices of the American Council

of Learned Societies (to which ADS belongs). - Allan Metcalf



-----------------------------------------------



OXFORD UNIVERSITY PRESS IS IN NEED OF AUTHORS TO PROVIDE

   BIOGRAPHICAL SKETCHES ON FAMOUS AMERICANS FOR

   THE _AMERICAN NATIONAL BIOGRAPHY_



   The _American National Biography_, which is to be published by

   Oxford in 1998 in conjunction with the American Council of Learned

   Societies, will be a twenty-volume reference set comprising more

   than 19,000 articles on historical figures from all fields. We

   have been commissioning articles since 1990, and most of the

   articles (particularly major figures) have already been assigned.

   However, there are important figures in every area that remain

   without authors and it is our intention to locate writers for these

   remaining subjects.



   Historical figures from as far back as the earliest European

   explorations of North America up to the very recent past will be

   included. Those whose contributions to American culture and

   history that have often been neglected in the past will have a

   strong presence in the ANB. Along with the most famous

   politicians, military leaders, writers, and ministers, people from

   all walks of life will be illuminated in the ANB's pages: social

   reformers and filibusters, geologists and fundamentalists,

   phrenologists and psychiatrists, classicists and jazz musicians,

   baseball players and bankers, among other categories of occupation,

   notoriety, and renown. Memorializing their lives will reveal the

   country's ongoing diversity, its essential pluralism.





   The subjects of articles have been selected by the general editor,

   John A. Garraty (Gouverneur Morris Professor Emeritus of History,

   Columbia University) and his immediate staff; a group of associate

   editors, some 193 eminent scholars and nonacademic experts located

   around the country and abroad; various other scholars who have

   taken a keen interest in the project; and, with the advice of both

   associate editors and contributors, the four project editors in the

   Cary, North Carolina, office of Oxford University Press.



   Most articles average 1000 words in length (exclusive of the

   bibliography), at $50.00 per essay (a result of funding from grants

   obtained by the ACLS in the late 1980s). Our scheduled publication

   date is late 1998, but we must have essays in our office much

   earlier for editing purposes. Because we deal with so many

   contributors (over 10,000), we ask them to establish their own due

   dates depending on the number of essays they wish to contribute and

   their schedules. (For 1st time contributors, the first essay must

   arrive within three to four months so it can be evaluated prior to

   making additional assignments final.)



   A sample manuscript is attached to this announcement to give you a

   better idea of the style, format, and content of ANB articles.



   When manuscripts are submitted, they are sent to appropriate

   associate editors for review. They then are passed along to

   Professor Garraty's office at Columbia, where they are approved or

   returned to authors for revision. The approved manuscripts go back

   to Oxford University Press in Cary to be factchecked and copyedited

   under the supervision of the project's copy chief and two

   assistants. Authors see the copyedited versions of their

   manuscripts and give their approval or request changes. After

   copyedited manuscripts are returned to the Cary office, they are

   put in final shape for typesetting.



   Because the project has been ongoing for nearly six years, we have,

   for the most part, already approached the obvious senior scholars

   for the areas being covered. Thus, in our attempts to broaden the

   network of ANB authors, WE WELCOME SUGGESTIONS OF AND VOLUNTEERS

   FROM JUNIOR FACULTY, POST DOCTORATES, AND PHD CANDIDATES who are

   seeking to publish in a scholarly work like the ANB.



   Lists of currently unassigned subjects are available in the

   following categories:

   Precolonial and Colonial History Politics, the Military and

   Diplomacy (separate lists by era: 1763-1815, 1815-1850,

   1850-1878, 1878-1914, 1914-1945, 1945-1995), Religion, Education,

   Business, Law, Medicine, Science and Technology, Social Sciences,

   Social Reform, Literature, Art, Architecture, and Applied Arts,

   Performing Arts, Sports, and Miscellaneous Persons



   To obtain a copy of one or more of these lists, please email or

   write to:

   Available Subjects

   American National Biography 2001

   Evans Road Cary, NC 27513

   Internet Inquiries to: anb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]oup-usa.org



   Please include your name and mailing address (email and regular

   mail) and a brief summary of your writing/research experience.



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 15 Apr 1996 to 16 Apr 1996

************************************************





There are 6 messages totalling 548 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. On those Bobdolisms (3)

 2. the athlete/politician's third-person

 3. Your help needed

 4. Here's the questionnaire!



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 17 Apr 1996 09:59:24 -0300

From:  Chris Brooks  chris[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HSCC.KUNIV.EDU.KW 

Subject: Re: On those Bobdolisms



Third personisms are used in Indonesian to refer not only to to

oneself but one's conversational partner. If I am talking to Budhi,

an exchange like the following is possible:



    Chris: "Chris mau pulang dulu, ya. Kalau Budhi mau ke mana?"

        Chris wants to go home now. Where is Budhi going?



    Budhi: "Oh ya, Budhi harus ke kantor segera. Panggil saja

        Budhi besok, baik?"

        Yeah, Budhi has to go to the office soon. Call Budhi

        tomorrow,OK?"



My feeling here is that--in contrast to the self-promotional or

dispassionate historical attitude toward oneself--the use of the

proper name in place of the pronoun in Indonesian is a humbling

device, at least as far as the speaker goes. Rather than saying

"I" "I" "I", which sounds egocentric, the speaker uses his or her

proper name.



This doesn't happen all the time, and Indonesian is rich in alternative

pronouns to choose from, but it does happen. Are there other languages

which have this feature?



Chris Brooks / Kuwait



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 17 Apr 1996 09:16:02 -0400

From:  "Dale F.Coye"  CoyeCFAT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Re: the athlete/politician's third-person



Ollie North was the first one I noticed doing this in his testimony before

the congressional hearings. To me its a macho thing-- the speaker wants to

project the image of a tough guy. By the way I hear a radio bite from Dole

yesterday on NPR where he switched from 3rd person to the 1st person plural

in the same breath, something like "and when Bob Dole becomes president we

are going to get things done." He could have meant we, the congress, or we

the people, but it sounded like the Royal We to me.



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 17 Apr 1996 10:05:15 -0400

From:  "Dale F.Coye"  CoyeCFAT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Re: Your help needed



I'll be glad to fill out your questionnaire.



Dale Coye



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 17 Apr 1996 10:05:29 -0400

From:  "Dale F.Coye"  CoyeCFAT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Re: On those Bobdolisms



Chris Brooks writes about Indonesian:



 Third personisms are used in Indonesian to refer not only to to

 oneself but one's conversational partner. If I am talking to Budhi,

 an exchange like the following is possible:

 

     Chris: "Chris mau pulang dulu, ya. Kalau Budhi mau ke mana?"

         Chris wants to go home now. Where is Budhi going?



Getting off the subject somewhat, but this reminds me that in in olden days

(up to the 19th century) German lords and ladies would address their servants

or any lower class person in the 3rd person. So contrary to Indonesian where

it takes the ego out of a conversation, it was a way of injecting condescion

into the most routine exchages.  "Where is He going?" meant, "where are you

going?" and the servant is constantly reminded he or she is dirt, --like not

even present in the room. The servants addressed them in the 2nd person

plural, and the lords and ladies could refer to themselves in the 1st person

plural.



It also reminds me of an episode of Seinfeld where Elaine is at the gym and

this guy comes up to her and says "Jimmy really likes you" and she thinks he

means this other guy she's been noticing. "Yeah, Jimmy's got a big crush on

you," he goes on to say, and it turns out he's a nut case who refers to

himself in the 3rd person. This goes back to the sports usage because Jimmy,

when he plays basketball, tends to describe what he's doing as if he were a

sportscaster "Jimmy gets the ball, he dribbles, he scores!" which people I

know also do when they're kidding around.



Dale Coye



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 17 Apr 1996 10:16:36 -0400

From:  Ronald Butters  amspeech[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ACPUB.DUKE.EDU 

Subject: Re: On those Bobdolisms



Whatever Lola wants, Lola gets--and little man, Lola wants you.



Tonto see Lone Ranger sleep.



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 17 Apr 1996 10:08:22 -0500

From:  mai kuha  mkuha[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU 

Subject: Here's the questionnaire!



QUESTIONNAIRE

Thank you for participating in this study!



The purpose of this survey is to collect information

about how people interact. Five hypothetical scenarios

are described below. Please put an X beside the most

appropriate answer to each question to indicate how

you interpret the interaction described in each scenario.



Please send your response to me at mkuha[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]indiana.edu



Mai Kuha

Linguistics Department

Indiana University, Bloomington





SITUATION 1

You and Jim, a friend of yours, have agreed to meet after

work to check out a sale at Acme Books. The two of you

walk towards the bookstore, exchanging anecdotes about

people you work with. Just as you reach the Corner Deli,

which is next door to Acme Books, Jim says:



"Have you eaten here?"



How would you interpret this utterance?

1. Jim just wants to know whether you've eaten at the deli.



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



2. Jim is trying to avoid a more serious topic.



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



3. Jim is suggesting that you go in and eat.



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



4. Other (if the above choices do not reflect your

interpretation of the situation):





Please indicate your reaction to this scenario:

5. Jim seems friendly.



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



6. Jim seems self-centered.



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



7. Jim has eaten at the Corner Deli before.



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



8. The utterance is normal and appropriate to the situation.



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



9. I might use this utterance myself in a situtation like this.



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree





SITUATION 2

A tree growing in your neighbor's yard has a branch which

reaches over to your yard. You have asked your neighbor,

Frank, to have the branch cut because it keeps sprinkling

sticky seed pods all over your car. He does nothing. Finally

you decide to cut the branch yourself. Just as you start

cutting, Frank appears and says:



"Hi there! What are you doing?"



How would you interpret Frank's utterance? Frank



10. just wants to know what you are doing



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



11. thinks you should not cut the branch



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



12. Other (if the above choices do not reflect your

interpretation of the situation):







Please indicate your reaction to this scenario:

13. Frank seems friendly.



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



14. Frank seems self-centered.



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



15. The utterance is normal and appropriate to the situation.



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



16. I might use this utterance myself in a situtation like this.



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree





SITUATION 3

Unfortunately, you've broken a leg. This morning, the doctor

said you'll be in the hospital for another two weeks. You

share a hospital room with another patient. The two of you

have been chatting and watching TV. A documentary on the

wineries of France comes on and your roommate says:



"Have you been to France before?"



How would you interpret this person's utterance? S/he

17. just wants to know if you've been to France



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



18. has been to France and wants to tell you about it



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



19. somehow has the impression that you're planning a trip

to France



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



20. is nosy and wants to find out if you are well off



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



21. Other (if the above choices do not reflect your

interpretation of the situation):







Please indicate your reaction to this scenario:

22. The person seems friendly.



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



23. The person seems self-centered.



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



24. The utterance is normal and appropriate to the situation.



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



25. I might use this utterance myself in a situtation like this.



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree





SITUATION 4

You develop a mysterious skin condition and go see your doctor,

who has become a friend over the years. She examines you and

asks:



"Have you had measles?"



 How would you interpret this utterance?

26.  The doctor is just asking whether you have had measles.



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



27.  The doctor wants to tell you about the time when she

had measles.



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



28.  The doctor is suggesting that you have measles now.



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



29. Other (if the above choices do not reflect your

interpretation of the situation):







Please indicate your reaction to this scenario:

30. The doctor seems friendly.



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



31. The doctor seems self-centered.



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



32. The utterance is normal and appropriate to the situation.



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



33. I might use a similar utterance myself in a situtation like this.



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree





SITUATION 5

You work in an office environment. Beth, your co-worker,

says she has heard rumors of impending layoffs in your

organization. You get into a conversation about jobs.

Beth says:



"I've worked in restaurants before."



How would you interpret this utterance?

34. Beth is just making conversation.



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



35. Beth is procrastinating because she doesn't

want to go back to work.



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



36. Beth thinks you will soon be working in a restaurant.



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



37. Beth thinks she will soon be working in a restaurant.



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



38. Beth's restaurant experience is in the distant past.



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



39. Other (if the above choices do not reflect your

interpretation of the situation):





Please indicate your reaction to this scenario:

40. Beth seems friendly.



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



41. Beth seems self-centered.



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



42. The utterance is normal and appropriate to the situation.



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree



43. I might use this utterance myself in a situtation like this.



 strongly agree

 somewhat agree

 I can't say

 somewhat disagree

 strongly disagree





DEMOGRAPHIC INFORMATION



44. I am:

 Male

 Female



45. Age:



46. Your first language, if other than English:





47. If your first language is NOT English, how long have you been

studying (or how long did you study) English? Where?





48. If your first language is English, please describe where you

are from by listing the locations where you have lived for

a significant period of time. For each place, please indicate

how long you lived there and whether it was a rural or urban area.





49. Please indicate the last educational level you completed:



 Elementary school

 High school

 Some college

 College degree

 Graduate study



Thank you again! If you would like to receive more information

about this study, please indicate your choice:



 I'd like to see a description of the purpose of this study.

 I'd like to see an abstract of the paper. (Obviously, it will be

some time before it's finished!)



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 16 Apr 1996 to 17 Apr 1996

************************************************





There are 5 messages totalling 112 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. On those Bobdolisms (2)

 2. Bounced Mail

 3. new word? disconnect (noun)

 4. disconnect



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 17 Apr 1996 21:03:29 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: On those Bobdolisms



Ron Butters' quote re Lola reminds me (perhaps erroneously, and I have

not checked the libretto) that Carmen refers to herself thusly in _Carmen_.



--Rudy Troike (rtroike[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccit.arizona.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 18 Apr 1996 09:26:00 -0400

From:  "Dale F.Coye"  CoyeCFAT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Re: On those Bobdolisms



 Ron Butters' quote re Lola reminds me (perhaps erroneously, and I have

 not checked the libretto) that Carmen refers to herself thusly in _Carmen_.



To this add the Duke of Plaza-Toro's boasting song from Gilbert and

Sullivan's Gondoliers, preceded by the line spoken by the Duke "The Duke of

Plaza-Toro does not follow fashion-- he leads it! He always leads

everybody!" A great campaign slogan for someone- Dole perhaps?



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 18 Apr 1996 10:26:21 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Bounced Mail



****************************************************************

 REMINDER: WHEN INCLUDING A PREVIOUS LIST POSTING IN SOMETHING

 YOU'RE SENDING TO THE LIST, BE SURE TO EDIT OUT ALL REFERENCES

 TO ADS-L IN THE HEADERS.

****************************************************************

  Date:     Thu, 18 Apr 1996 10:53:03 -0400

  From: "L-Soft list server at UGA (1.8b)"  LISTSERV[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu 

  Subject:   ADS-L: error report from GUVAX.ACC.GEORGETOWN.EDU

 

 The enclosed message, found in the ADS-L mailbox and shown under the spool ID

 6474 in the system log, has been identified as a possible delivery error notice

 for the following reason: "Sender:", "From:" or "Reply-To:" field pointing to

 the list has been found in mail body.

 

 ------------------- Message in error (49 lines) --------------------------

  Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 10:52:53 -0400 (EDT)

  From: "Peter L. Patrick"  PPATRICK[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]guvax.acc.georgetown.edu 

  Subject: Re: On those Bobdolisms

 

    Subj:    RE: On those Bobdolisms

 

  On the use of 3rd-person self-reference by FN+LN in public speech,

  esp. to the media, Chris Brooks wrote about Indonesian:

 

    My feeling here is that--in contrast to the self-promotional or

    dispassionate historical attitude toward oneself--the use of the

    proper name in place of the pronoun in Indonesian is a humbling

    device, at least as far as the speaker goes.

 

  Writing from Washington, though, I suspect the norms here are very

  different, at least for the usage by politicians. Unlike the sports

  figures, these folks often DON'T do their own scripting; the people

  who do write comments for them may be the same ones who write press

  releases *about* them; and the pols are used to thinking about their

  message in 3rd-p terms, too, I'd bet, from campaign and other promo

  experiences. The more distance the speaker has from their public

  persona, perhaps the easier it is to project a coherent, fully two-

  dimensional portrait composed of only that-which-will-sell. While no

  doubt these folks are egocentric, they also are pretty image-aware and

  I suspect that they're really NOT referring to their "selves" when

  they use the FN+LN reference.

     Also, I believe I've noticed-- impressionistically, of

  course-- that when politicians comment negatively on each other, they

  may use either LN or FN+LN, but when they comment positively they tend

  to use TLN or FN+LN predominantly. I wonder if anyone has ever done

  such a study in public-affairs discourse? So much has been written

  about address, but I know of less on this sort of reference (not

  counting syntactic treatments, of course).

     (I also found Larry's and Joan's comments very helpful.)

         --peter patrick

 



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 18 Apr 1996 12:34:17 -0400

From:  "Dale F.Coye"  CoyeCFAT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: new word? disconnect (noun)



At a meeting held at the Carnegie Foundation last month, high-ranking

educators from around the country were convened to discuss the future of the

Foundation. Frank Newman, head of the Education Commission of the States

said we should address the many "disconnects" which characterize education,

for example disagreement over whether all children can learn at high levels.

A disconnect is apparently something that people are not at all in agreement

on, or on different wavelengths about. What amuses me about words like this

is that I suspect many people in the room had never heard it used like this,

but they immediately picked up on it and all started coming up with

disconnects of their own, relishing this neologism as if it were an exotic

condiment that made their idea tastier.



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 18 Apr 1996 13:29:05 +0000

From:  "E. W. Gilman"  egilman[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]M-W.COM 

Subject: disconnect



There is a disconnect, noun, in Webster's Third New International

Dictionary, but it is not an educational one.



E.W.Gilman



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 17 Apr 1996 to 18 Apr 1996

************************************************





There is one message totalling 15 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. bobdolisms



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 19 Apr 1996 15:18:13 -0400

From:  Ron Butters  RonButters[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: bobdolisms



I saw this in my morning paper. Author: Ellen Goodman, The WASHINGTON POST

Writer's Group:



Monday, in a Philadelphia suburb, the would-be Republican nominee told a

crowd, "If something happened along the route and you had to leave your

children with Bob Dole or Bill Clinton, I think you'd probably leave your

children with Bob Dole." Well, I am not at all sure that I'd want to leave

my children with someone who talks about himself in the third person.



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 18 Apr 1996 to 19 Apr 1996

************************************************





There are 4 messages totalling 167 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Humanistic inquiry (2)

 2.  No subject given 

 3. LASSO Call



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 21 Apr 1996 12:31:26 -0400

From:  Allan Metcalf  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Humanistic inquiry



The following is from the American Council of Learned Societies, of which ADS

is a member. Anybody can subscribe to the hereunderdescribed list without

further ado. But if anyone would like to act as ADS' "designated subscriber,"

please let me know. - Allan Metcalf  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com 



--------------------------------------------



How to subscribe to the Humanist, the listserv on computers and the

humanities:



There's a website: http://www.princeton.edu/~mccarty/humanist/

You can subscribe from the website.



Willard McCarty is the editor.



Humanist is not for everyone, but does have lots of

interesting stuff. One idea we have is to invite each learned society to

designate one person to subscribe to Humanist and keep an eye out for

material

of interest to scholars in that field. They could then repost such items to

listservs in the discipline, or copy them for inclusion in a newsletter, or

both. Of course others in the learned society could also subscribe, but you

might want to have one person designated to keep an eye out for materials of

interest to art history or folklore or whatever.



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 21 Apr 1996 11:52:12 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Humanistic inquiry



  is a member. Anybody can subscribe to the hereunderdescribed list without

  further ado. But if anyone would like to act as ADS' "designated subscriber,"

  please let me know. - Allan Metcalf  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com 



Surely we have some ADS members who are already subscribers. Humanist

was the very first list I subscribed to back in the olden days -- on the

particular olden day when I got my first modem (having just gotten my

first computer also, which I got largely because I had heard Jeutonne

Brewer talking about Bitnet at a SECOL meeting). But enough reminiscing.

Back to the point. Although I'm still a subscriber to Humanist, I don't

think I'd be a very good "designated subscriber" since I've had it set to

'nomail' for years (which translated into 'mail postpone' when Humanist

moved from listserv to listproc a few years ago). I stayed subscribed

because I liked being able to search the archives occasionally -- archives

that were for members only.



  --------------------------------------------

  How to subscribe to the Humanist, the listserv on computers and the

                    ^^^^^^^^

  humanities:



The linguist part of me really hates my prescriptive attitude toward the

term "listserv," but I can't help it. The other part of me wants to

scream every time I see this kind of usage of it: "YOU MEAN *LIST*, NOT

LISTSERV!" I guess one reason I hate the use of "listserv" to mean "list"

so much is from my point of view as listowner of several lists. If people

think that "listserv" means "list," instructions like "send the command

to the listserv" often result in misdirected clutter on lists. I guess

Eric Thomas wants to scream even louder, especially when people are

calling listproc or majordomo lists "listservs." Or maybe, unlike Xerox

and Coca-Cola, he feels flattered instead -- flattered that his program,

now his private company, is being used as a generic word, albeit with a

shift in meaning.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 21 Apr 1996 15:47:27 -0400

From:  "Dennis R. Preston"  preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PILOT.MSU.EDU 

Subject:  No subject given 



What's Don Lance's e-mail address? I have the old bitnet one.

Thanks, anybody.



Dennis



Dennis R. Preston

Department of Linguistics and Languages

Michigan State University

East Lansing MI 48824-1027 USA

preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]pilot.msu.edu

Office: (517)432-1235

Fax: (517)432-2736



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 21 Apr 1996 19:21:40 -0600

From:  "Garland D. Bills"  gbills[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UNM.EDU 

Subject: LASSO Call



               CALL FOR PAPERS

                 LASSO XXV



            25th Annual Meeting of the

         Linguistic Association of the Southwest



              October 11-13, 1996

            Louisiana State University

             Baton Rouge, Louisiana



Invited Speaker: Barbara Johnstone (Texas A&M University)

         "Profiles of Texas Speech: Discourse Issues"



   Proposals for papers in any area of linguistics will be

considered. Submissions for the 1995 meeting in Baton Rouge are

particularly encouraged in the areas of discourse analysis,

languages and variation in Louisiana, and Mayan linguistics.

Papers by graduate students are especially solicited and may be

considered for the Helmut Esau Prize, a $250 cash award made

annually by LASSO.



   Presentation time for papers will be limited to twenty

minutes plus ten minutes for discussion.



   **The deadline for receipt of abstracts is June 15, 1996.**

Notification of acceptance of papers will be sent out by August

1, 1996.



   Only one abstract as single author and a second as co-author

will be accepted from any individual.



   Abstracts must be no longer than one page ( c. 250 words)

and should summarize the main points of the paper and explain

relevant aspects of the data, methodology, and argumentation

employed; abstracts of accepted papers will be published exactly

as received in a booklet for distribution at the meeting. At the

beginning of your abstract place the paper title, and at the end

of the abstract (or on a separate page) repeat the title along

with your name, affiliation, mailing address, telephone number,

and e-mail address.



   It is preferred that abstracts be submitted by e-mail to:

        ditmg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ttacs1.ttu.edu

In the absence of e-mail, or if your abstract contains any

special symbols, send one hard copy of the abstract (preferably

with a diskette, labeled for operating system and word processing

program) to:

        Mary Jane Hurst

        Department of English

        Texas Tech University

        Lubbock, TX 79409-3091

         Tel. (806) 742-2501



 *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *



Presentation of papers at the LASSO annual meetings is a

privilege of membership in LASSO; 1995 dues must be paid by June

15 in order for your abstract to be considered. Annual membership

dues for individuals are US$15.00 (or US$7.50 for students,

retired persons, and those not employed). To pay dues or for

additional information, contact:

        Garland D. Bills

        Executive Director, LASSO

        Department of Linguistics

        University of New Mexico

        Albuquerque, NM 87131-1196 USA

         Tel. (505) 277-7416

         Fax (505) 277-6355

         E-mail: gbills[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE].unm.edu



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 19 Apr 1996 to 21 Apr 1996

************************************************





There are 11 messages totalling 226 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Authors Wanted

 2. Klingler 1992 Vol. 2 needed, esp. biblio (6)

 3. A new query (3)

 4. New Verb?



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 22 Apr 1996 09:36:22 MST

From:  Tom Uharriet  UTOM[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ADMN.SHS.NEBO.EDU 

Subject: Re: Authors Wanted



Oops!

I deleted that "authors wanted" message too soon. If anyone still

has it, I would appreciate it being forwarded back to me.

Thanks,

Tom



utom[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]admn.shs.nebo.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 22 Apr 1996 12:26:03 -0400

From:  "Bethany K. Dumas, U of Tennessee"  dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Klingler 1992 Vol. 2 needed, esp. biblio



I was sucessful in borrowing (via ILL) vol. 1 of Thomas Klingler's 1992

Indiana diss., A Desc. Study of the Creole Speech of Pointe Coupee Parish

... . However the library we borrowed it from, Indiana, says that there

is no vol. 2. Two other libraries refuse to lend vol. 2. My library now

informs me that it has "exhausted all possible sources for [my] request." We

particularly want the bibliography, which is in vol. 2. Any suggestions?



Thanks,

Bethany



Bethany K. Dumas, J.D., Ph.D.  | Applied Linguistics, Language & Law

Dep't of English, UT, Knoxville | EMAIL: dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu

415 McClung Tower        | (423) 974-6965 | FAX (423) 974-6926

Knoxville, TN 37996-0430    | See Webpage at http://ljp.la.utk.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 22 Apr 1996 12:04:41 CDT

From:  Barbara Need  barbara[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SAPIR.UCHICAGO.EDU 

Subject: Re: Klingler 1992 Vol. 2 needed, esp. biblio



Have you tried getting it through UMI?



Barbara Need

University of Chicago--Linguistics



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 22 Apr 1996 12:46:00 CDT

From:  Tom Murray  TEM[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]KSUVM.KSU.EDU 

Subject: A new query



In the early 1970s, a number of I.Q. tests were developed to show that the so-c

alled "standardized" tests were really biased in favor of white, middle-class t

est-takers. One of the newly-developed alternative tests was called the Dove C

ounterbalance Intelligence Test; another was called the BITCH (Black Intelligen

ce Test of Cultural Homogeneity). This latter, I believe, was written in 1972

by a fellow at Washington University in St. Louis. Now, the query: Can anyone

 give me the name of that fellow, or the name of the person who developed the D

ove Test, or, better yet, can anyone provide a bibliographic cite where either

of the tests (but especially the BITCH) was published, or know how a person can

 get a copy? Thanks in advance for any assistance.



     --Tom Murray  TEM[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]KSUVM.KSU.EDU 



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 22 Apr 1996 12:01:56 -0600

From:  Bruce Gelder  bgelder[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CAMEL.CORP.ES.COM 

Subject: Re: A new query



  can anyone

  provide a bibliographic cite where either of the tests (but

  especially the BITCH) was published, or know how a person can

  get a copy? Thanks in advance for any assistance.



 From http://library.pittstate.edu/ref/testfiles.html:



NAME:        Black Intelligence Test of Cultural Homogeneity

ACCESSION NUMBER:  000039

PUBLISHER/CITY:   Black Studies Program, Washington University/St.

          Louis, MO

DATE/ED:      1972

CONTENTS:      000039-A. Manual of directions

          000039-B. Bitch test



And, by the way, the author was Robert Williams.



Bruce Gelder



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 22 Apr 1996 13:31:00 CDT

From:  Edward Callary  TB0EXC1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MVS.CSO.NIU.EDU 

Subject: Re: A new query



DOVE test is in a little book by Jim Haskins and Hugh F.

Butts, THE PSYCHOLOGY OF BLACK LANGUAGE, Barnes and Noble,

1973



Edward Callary



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 22 Apr 1996 14:39:47 -0400

From:  "Bethany K. Dumas, U of Tennessee"  dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Re: Klingler 1992 Vol. 2 needed, esp. biblio



On Mon, 22 Apr 1996, Barbara Need wrote:



  Have you tried getting it through UMI?

 

Of couse, that's what we'll do. But we were trying to borrow a copy quickly

for immediate use.



Thanks,

Bethany



Bethany K. Dumas, J.D., Ph.D.  | Applied Linguistics, Language & Law

Dep't of English, UT, Knoxville | EMAIL: dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu

415 McClung Tower        | (423) 974-6965 | FAX (423) 974-6926

Knoxville, TN 37996-0430    | See Webpage at http://ljp.la.utk.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 22 Apr 1996 14:00:38 CDT

From:  Barbara Need  barbara[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SAPIR.UCHICAGO.EDU 

Subject: Re: Klingler 1992 Vol. 2 needed, esp. biblio



Well, I found the book listed in Firstsearch as being at the

following Louisiana Schools (and, FYI, the entry in the same

catalogue for Indiana DOES show it as a 2v. set!!):



LA

 LHC  HISTORIC NEW ORLEANS COLLECTION          Y

 LRU  TULANE UNIV                    Y

 LUU  LOUISIANA STATE UNIV                Y



The Y, means it is a ILL supplier.



Barbara Need

University of Chicago--Linguistics



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 22 Apr 1996 15:48:04 -0500

From:  Tom Klingler  klingler[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAILHOST.TCS.TULANE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Klingler 1992 Vol. 2 needed, esp. biblio



Sorry about the confusion surrounding my dissertation. There is, in fact,

only one volume (unless it has appeared in some form I'm unaware of). When

I printed out the final draft, I thought it would be too thick to bind in a

single volume, so I planned it as two. As it turned out, the bindery WAS

able to get it all in a single volume, but I didnt' find that out until I

received the bound copies. This leaves me in the embarrassing situation of

having a dissertation that is billed as consisting of two volumes, but in

fact consists of just one. The bibliography should appear on pages 632-645

of all copies of the dissertation. If for some reason the bibliography or

any other portion is missing from your copy, I'd be glad to supply it.



Once again, my apologies for the confusion.



Tom





******************************************************************************

Tom Klingler

Department of French and Italian

Tulane University

New Orleans, LA 70118

(504) 862-3120 (office)

(504) 865-8020

Email: klingler[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 22 Apr 1996 17:05:08 -0400

From:  "Bethany K. Dumas, U of Tennessee"  dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Re: Klingler 1992 Vol. 2 needed, esp. biblio



On Mon, 22 Apr 1996, Tom Klingler wrote:



  Sorry about the confusion surrounding my dissertation. There is, in fact,

  only one volume (unless it has appeared in some form I'm unaware of). ...

  The bibliography should appear on pages 632-645 of all copies of the

  dissertation. If for some reason the bibliography or

  any other portion is missing from your copy, I'd be glad to supply it.

 



Thanks for your note, Tom. The version I received from Indiana was a

single volume of 252 pages. The Table of Contents showed that the diss.

contained over 600 pp. When I went back to our ILL office today, they

checked again and said that Indiana could not find the second volume--they

did acknowledge its existence: ???



I have not seen a single volume containing all pages. We'll just go

ahead and order the whole diss. from MI, but if you happen to have an

electronic copy of the refs, we'd love to have those faster than we'll be

able to get the diss.



Bethany

Bethany K. Dumas, J.D., Ph.D.  | Applied Linguistics, Language & Law

Dep't of English, UT, Knoxville | EMAIL: dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu

415 McClung Tower        | (423) 974-6965 | FAX (423) 974-6926

Knoxville, TN 37996-0430    | See Webpage at http://ljp.la.utk.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 22 Apr 1996 21:08:14 -0400

From:  "Bethany K. Dumas"  dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKUX.UTCC.UTK.EDU 

Subject: New Verb?



I just read a sentence that begins:



"I am snailing you today a photo of the Easter Bunny

  with one of the younger members of the parish ..."



First time I have seen "snail" as a verb--have others seen it?



Bethany



Bethany K. Dumas, J.D., Ph.D.  | Applied Linguistics, Language & Law

Dep't of English, UT, Knoxville | EMAIL: dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu

415 McClung Tower        | (423) 974-6965 | FAX (423) 974-6926

Knoxville, TN 37996-0430    | See Webpage at http://ljp.la.utk.edu



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 21 Apr 1996 to 22 Apr 1996

************************************************





There are 4 messages totalling 81 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. A new query

 2. Writing about famous Americans (2)

 3. New Verb?



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 22 Apr 1996 23:55:38 -0700

From:  Kim & Rima McKinzey  rkm[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SLIP.NET 

Subject: Re: A new query



 the Dove C ounterbalance Intelligence Test; another was called the BITCH

(Black Intelligen

 ce Test of Cultural Homogeneity).

 

      --Tom Murray  TEM[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]KSUVM.KSU.EDU 



Both tests can be researched using Psychlit (Psychological Abstracts) if

you have access to it.



Rima



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 23 Apr 1996 15:21:59 MST

From:  Tom Uharriet  UTOM[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ADMN.SHS.NEBO.EDU 

Subject: Writing about famous Americans



Hello,



About two days ago, a post was sent asking for writers who write

about famous Americans. Does anyone still have a copy of that post?

If so, I would appreciate receiving it again.



Thanks,



Tom



utom[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]admn.shs.nebo.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 23 Apr 1996 18:30:55 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Writing about famous Americans



  About two days ago, a post was sent asking for writers who write

  about famous Americans. Does anyone still have a copy of that post?

  If so, I would appreciate receiving it again.



You can get it from the archives. Unfortunately, they're not like

listserv archives (easily searchable and easy to get just the posting

you're looking for) -- the logs are in single files for each date

during the current month and monthly files for older postings.



The archives are available via ftp from ftp.msstate.edu in pub/archives/

ADS, from gopher via gopher.msstate.edu (#3 from first menu, #1 from

second menu), and from the web via http://www.msstate.edu/Archives/ADS/.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 23 Apr 1996 17:22:04 -0700

From:  Dan Moonhawk Alford  dalford[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]S1.CSUHAYWARD.EDU 

Subject: Re: New Verb?



Nope, first for me in the Califoria Bay Area. But I'll check with my

co-teacher, who spends more time on-line.



On Mon, 22 Apr 1996, Bethany K. Dumas wrote:



  I just read a sentence that begins:

 

  "I am snailing you today a photo of the Easter Bunny

    with one of the younger members of the parish ..."

 

  First time I have seen "snail" as a verb--have others seen it?

 

  Bethany

 

  Bethany K. Dumas, J.D., Ph.D.  | Applied Linguistics, Language & Law

  Dep't of English, UT, Knoxville | EMAIL: dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu

  415 McClung Tower        | (423) 974-6965 | FAX (423) 974-6926

  Knoxville, TN 37996-0430    | See Webpage at http://ljp.la.utk.edu

 



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 22 Apr 1996 to 23 Apr 1996

************************************************





There are 3 messages totalling 168 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Epenthetic [l] in _home_ (2)

 2. Bounced Mail



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 24 Apr 1996 17:48:01 -0400

From:  Paul Fallon  pfallon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]S850.MWC.EDU 

Subject: Epenthetic [l] in _home_



I've recently become aware of an epenthetic velarized [l] (el) in the

word _home_ (and its derivatives like home-boy), and occasionally in the

word _dome_. A student first pointed this out to me and I've since done

a little digging. I don't see anything listed in the appropriate DARE

entries. Can anyone guide me to any relevent literature or approximate

date of discussion on this list so I can search the logs?



The speakers who do this are from Maryland and Pennsylvania. (Anywhere

else?) My guess is that it's an acoustic reinterpretation of the

offglide element of the diphthong [oU] in /hom/. Any leads would be

appreciated.



Best,



Paul Fallon

pfallon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mwc.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 24 Apr 1996 17:42:48 EST

From:  simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU

Subject: Re: Epenthetic [l] in _home_



Paul,



Bryan Gick has done work on what he describes as "intrusive l".

Contact him at bryan.gick[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]yale.edu.



beth



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 24 Apr 1996 17:35:10 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Bounced Mail



****************************************************************

 REMINDER: WHEN INCLUDING A PREVIOUS LIST POSTING IN SOMETHING

 YOU'RE SENDING TO THE LIST, BE SURE TO EDIT OUT ALL REFERENCES

 TO ADS-L IN THE HEADERS.

****************************************************************

  Date:     Wed, 24 Apr 1996 15:56:36 -0400

  From: "L-Soft list server at UGA (1.8b)"  LISTSERV[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu 

  Subject:   ADS-L: error report from ADMN.SHS.NEBO.EDU

 

 The enclosed message, found in the ADS-L mailbox and shown under the spool ID

 0762 in the system log, has been identified as a possible delivery error notice

 for the following reason: "Sender:", "From:" or "Reply-To:" field pointing to

 the list has been found in mail body.

 

  ----------------- Message in error (131 lines) -------------------------

  From:     Tom Uharriet  UTOM[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]admn.shs.nebo.edu 

  Organization: Springville High School

  Date:     Wed, 24 Apr 1996 13:56:28 MST

  Subject:    authors wanted

 

  Please excuse me for forwarding this post back to the whole list. I

  tried to send it directly to an interested member of this group, but

  had it bounce back to me.

  -TU

 

  ------- Forwarded Message Follows -------

   

    Date:     Tue, 16 Apr 1996 16:47:58 -0400

    From: Allan Metcalf  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

    Comments: cc: billk[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]atlas.uga.edu

   

    The following is a legitimate notice from the offices of the American Council

    of Learned Societies (to which ADS belongs). - Allan Metcalf

   

    - -----------------------------------------------

   

    OXFORD UNIVERSITY PRESS IS IN NEED OF AUTHORS TO PROVIDE

      BIOGRAPHICAL SKETCHES ON FAMOUS AMERICANS FOR

      THE _AMERICAN NATIONAL BIOGRAPHY_

   

      The _American National Biography_, which is to be published by

      Oxford in 1998 in conjunction with the American Council of Learned

      Societies, will be a twenty-volume reference set comprising more

      than 19,000 articles on historical figures from all fields. We

      have been commissioning articles since 1990, and most of the

      articles (particularly major figures) have already been assigned.

      However, there are important figures in every area that remain

      without authors and it is our intention to locate writers for these

      remaining subjects.

   

      Historical figures from as far back as the earliest European

      explorations of North America up to the very recent past will be

      included. Those whose contributions to American culture and

      history that have often been neglected in the past will have a

      strong presence in the ANB. Along with the most famous

      politicians, military leaders, writers, and ministers, people from

      all walks of life will be illuminated in the ANB's pages: social

      reformers and filibusters, geologists and fundamentalists,

      phrenologists and psychiatrists, classicists and jazz musicians,

      baseball players and bankers, among other categories of occupation,

      notoriety, and renown. Memorializing their lives will reveal the

      country's ongoing diversity, its essential pluralism.

   

   

      The subjects of articles have been selected by the general editor,

      John A. Garraty (Gouverneur Morris Professor Emeritus of History,

      Columbia University) and his immediate staff; a group of associate

      editors, some 193 eminent scholars and nonacademic experts located

      around the country and abroad; various other scholars who have

      taken a keen interest in the project; and, with the advice of both

      associate editors and contributors, the four project editors in the

      Cary, North Carolina, office of Oxford University Press.

   

      Most articles average 1000 words in length (exclusive of the

      bibliography), at $50.00 per essay (a result of funding from grants

      obtained by the ACLS in the late 1980s). Our scheduled publication

      date is late 1998, but we must have essays in our office much

      earlier for editing purposes. Because we deal with so many

      contributors (over 10,000), we ask them to establish their own due

      dates depending on the number of essays they wish to contribute and

      their schedules. (For 1st time contributors, the first essay must

      arrive within three to four months so it can be evaluated prior to

      making additional assignments final.)

   

      A sample manuscript is attached to this announcement to give you a

      better idea of the style, format, and content of ANB articles.

   

      When manuscripts are submitted, they are sent to appropriate

      associate editors for review. They then are passed along to

      Professor Garraty's office at Columbia, where they are approved or

      returned to authors for revision. The approved manuscripts go back

      to Oxford University Press in Cary to be factchecked and copyedited

      under the supervision of the project's copy chief and two

      assistants. Authors see the copyedited versions of their

      manuscripts and give their approval or request changes. After

      copyedited manuscripts are returned to the Cary office, they are

      put in final shape for typesetting.

   

      Because the project has been ongoing for nearly six years, we have,

      for the most part, already approached the obvious senior scholars

      for the areas being covered. Thus, in our attempts to broaden the

      network of ANB authors, WE WELCOME SUGGESTIONS OF AND VOLUNTEERS

      FROM JUNIOR FACULTY, POST DOCTORATES, AND PHD CANDIDATES who are

      seeking to publish in a scholarly work like the ANB.

   

      Lists of currently unassigned subjects are available in the

      following categories:

      Precolonial and Colonial History Politics, the Military and

      Diplomacy (separate lists by era: 1763-1815, 1815-1850,

      1850-1878, 1878-1914, 1914-1945, 1945-1995), Religion, Education,

      Business, Law, Medicine, Science and Technology, Social Sciences,

      Social Reform, Literature, Art, Architecture, and Applied Arts,

      Performing Arts, Sports, and Miscellaneous Persons

   

      To obtain a copy of one or more of these lists, please email or

      write to:

      Available Subjects

      American National Biography 2001

      Evans Road Cary, NC 27513

      Internet Inquiries to: anb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]oup-usa.org

   

      Please include your name and mailing address (email and regular

      mail) and a brief summary of your writing/research experience.

   

    ------- End of Forwarded Message



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 23 Apr 1996 to 24 Apr 1996

************************************************





There are 8 messages totalling 264 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Epenthetic [l] in _home_ (4)

 2. Mike Linn in Search of Addresses

 3. Hysterical? (2)

 4. Technical job at Georgia



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 25 Apr 1996 08:20:23 -0400

From:  Wayne Glowka  wglowka[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAIL.GAC.PEACHNET.EDU 

Subject: Re: Epenthetic [l] in _home_



Last night I was reading a student paper. Instead of "hooves" (a possible

plural of "hoof"), the student wrote "hulves." I do not know where he

comes from.





Wayne Glowka

Professor of English

Director of Research and Graduate Student Services

Georgia College

Milledgeville, GA 31061

912-453-4222

wglowka[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mail.gac.peachnet.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 25 Apr 1996 08:18:43 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Mike Linn in Search of Addresses



If any of you can help, please send e-mail to Mike at mlinn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]d.umn.edu.



  I need to find the following people to get permission to reprint articles

  for a second edition of Dialects and Language Variation. Any help that

  you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

 

     Anthony Kroch

     Craig M. Carver

     Deborah Cameron

     Theodore K. Lerud

     Martha Ratliff

 

  Thank you.

 

  Mike Linn

  email MLinn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]d.umn.edu

 



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 25 Apr 1996 09:57:17 -0400

From:  "Dale F.Coye"  CoyeCFAT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Re: Epenthetic [l] in _home_



I wonder if hypercorrection is a possibility. Speech teachers are telling

speakers who vocalize /l/ postvocalically to put it back in. In some

dialects words like cold, bolt have a high back vowel instead of velar /l/.

 This is especially common in black English, but I have also heard it in SE

Pa. See Mary Berger's Speak Standard, Too--Add Mainstream English to Your

Talking Style which includes speech drills to get the /l/ back in.  So now

maybe we're getting hypercorrection with words like home being added to the

"insert /l/" list of words.



Dale Coye

Carnegie Foundation

Princeton



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 25 Apr 1996 11:54:51 -0500

From:  "David Bergdahl (614) 593-2783"  BERGDAHL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU 

Subject: Re: Epenthetic [l] in _home_



For the longest time I've noticed a velarized reflex of an epenthetic [l] in one

word in my own speech, Oaklahoma. In fact, as a teen (mid 50s) I spelled it

with an {l} until I was hocked for it once. The film of the musical was big

then, perhaps I thought -holm was the way placenames ended, on the analogy with

Stockholm. Is this related to the backing of /oh/?

    ______________________________________________________

    David Bergdahl     BERGDAHL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU

    Associate Professor of English Language and Literature

    Ohio University / Athens      fax: (614) 593-2818

    ______________________________________________________



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 25 Apr 1996 14:37:01 -0600

From:  Samuel Jones  smjones1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU 

Subject: Re: Epenthetic [l] in _home_



An Herrn Professor Bergdahl:



O-K-L-A-h-o-m-a? Yup!  O-A-K-L-A-h-o-m-a? Nope!!



Epenthesis rears its head in all sorts of interesting ways. In the



instance you note, part of the reason for the epenthetic "l" may have to



do with the diphthonging of the "O"[o + short "u"]. As the lips round



and closure proceeds, the lower jaw rises. Inside the mouth, the tongue



also rises [I know! I know! " "The sun also . . ."]. When the word ends,



for example, in the "m-m-m" sound--bi-labial continuant, nasal,



semi-consonant--(Whatever you call it, it's still a vowel sound with



something in the way!), the apex of the tongue moves quite close to the



palatal or alveolar position needed for the lateral continuant "L," which



easily may become a "continuant bridge-sound" (sort of an advanced guard)



to the full oral closure of the bi-labial continuant "m-m-m" sound. Further,



though "C" dialect English does not recommend pronouncing the "L" in calm,



balm, psalm, palm, many people do, perhaps because of the position proximity



of the "L" and the "M." (?) H-m-m-m??



Obviously, I've an advanced case of logorrhea.











____________________________________________________________________________

DR. SAMUEL M. JONES          INTERNET: smjones1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]facstaff.wisc.edu

Prof. of Music & Latin American Studies TELNET: samjones[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]macc.wisc.edu

5434 Humanities Building          FAX: 608 + 262-8876 (UW)

455 North Park Street

__________________________________________

University of Wisconsin-Madison TELEPHONES: 608 + 263-1900 (UW-Lv. message)

Madison, WI 53706-1483          * 608 + 263-1924 * (UW-Office -

                        * VOICE MAIL--Lv message)



____________________________________________________________________________

"Pen-y-Bryn"          TELEPHONES: 608 + 233-2150 (Home)

122 Shepard Terrace             608 + 233-4748 (Home)

Madison, WI 53705-3614

____________________________________________________________________________



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 25 Apr 1996 16:59:25 -0500

From:  "Kathleen M. O'Neill"  koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UIC.EDU 

Subject: Hysterical?



Am I the only person who uses

"hysterical" to mean "really funny"?



I just found this definition on

Webster's on the web...



 hys.te.ria or hys.ter.i.cal \his-'ter-e--*, -'tir-\ \-'ter-ik\

   \-'ter-i-k*l\ \-i-k(*-)le-\ n [NL, fr. E hysteric, adj., fr. L hystericus

   of the womb, fr. Gk ]hysterikos, fr. hystera womb; fr. the former notion

   that hysteric women were suffering from disturbances of the womb 1: a

   psychoneurosis marked by emotional excitability and disturbances of the

   psychic, sensory, vasomotor, and visceral functions 2: unmanageable fear or

   emotional excess - hys.ter.ic n



So I'm wondering about that.



Also, the question that sparked

this inquiry is what would be the

female genitalia equivalent of "phallic"?

Is there such a thing? (A word, that is.)



Thanks!



;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

;Kathleen M. O'Neill ... Language Laboratory Technician I  ;

;koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uic.edu ... u55354[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uicvm.cc.uic.edu        ;

;:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::;

;University of Illinois at Chicago ... Language Laboratory ;

;703 South Morgan Street (M/C 042) ... Grant Hall, Room 311 ;

;Chicago, IL 60607-7025                  ;

;312.996.8838 or 312.996.8836 ... 312.996.5501 FAX    ;

;URL: http://www2.uic.edu/depts/langlab/          ;

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 25 Apr 1996 15:13:52 -0700

From:  David Robertson  net091[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RISCY.SFCC.CTC.EDU 

Subject: Re: Hysterical?



On Thu, 25 Apr 1996, Kathleen M. O'Neill wrote:



  ...the question that sparked

  this inquiry is what would be the

  female genitalia equivalent of "phallic"?

  Is there such a thing? (A word, that is.)

 



   I've long heard the politically hypercorrect use the term "yonic"

for this purpose, Kathleen. Specifics: Used by feminist-influenced

women around 20 years old; the "o" in the word is pronounced as the "aw"

in "lawn"; and of course the word derives from Sanskrit "yoni".



   Feels good to have a term for this, I've found, but to my ear it's

also jarring to have a Sanskrit word referring to one sex and a Greek

word to the 'opposite'! If we were as motivated by symmetry as we tend

to believe, we'd've switched to a word like "lingamic", eh? Since

"hysterical" is a word with a relatively high functional load in Modern

American English.



   Namaste!



   Dave



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 25 Apr 1996 08:36:55 -0400

From:  "William A. Kretzschmar, Jr."  billk[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ATLAS.UGA.EDU 

Subject: Technical job at Georgia



The following job notice may be of interest to some. My apologiesd for

cross-posting.



Regards, Bill

************************************************************************

Bill Kretzschmar        Phone:  706-542-2246

Dept. of English (Park 317)   FAX:   706-542-2181

University of Georgia      Internet: billk[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]atlas.uga.edu

Athens, GA 30602-6205     Atlas Web Page: http://hyde.park.uga.edu







The Department of English, University of Georgia, seeks to hire an

academic professional for network support and development to begin 1 July

1996. The successful applicant will have an appropriate terminal degree

and strong academic background in the humanities together with

substantial, demonstrable experience in computing and networking on Unix,

Novell, DOS/Windows, and Mac platforms. Job responsibility will include

administration of the departmental servers and network system, oversight

of end-user problems, evaluation of equipment needs, assistance in

preparation of grant proposals, and the offering of in-service training

workshops. This position is a new line within the Department; while not

tenure track, it offers the professional reasonable expectation of regular

reappointment.



In addition, the academic professional (AP) will assist in instructional

design and the planning and implementation of educational technologies.

The AP will help the faculty to acquire information for their teaching and

research by electronic means. The AP will aid the faculty in developing

and using appropriate systems for maintenance, presentation, and analysis

of the information for teaching and research. The AP will contribute to

the construction and maintenance of the department's Internet/Web

presence. The AP may teach one course per year in computer-mediated

communication depending upon qualifications, may supervise research

assistants, and, in sum, should take the opportunity to help the faculty

to reinvent the teaching of English.



Twelve-month starting salary is $35,000.



The Department encourages applications from women and minorities.



Initial applications and any questions should be submitted electronically

to: techjob[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]english.uga.edu (ASCII text, sixty-character line, no

attachments), with follow-up hard copy postmarked no later than 24 May

1996 to: Prof. Nelson Hilton / Academic Professional Search / Department

of English / Athens GA, 30602.



AA/EOE



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 24 Apr 1996 to 25 Apr 1996

************************************************





There are 6 messages totalling 235 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Epenthetic [l] in _home_ (4)

 2. Elementary, My Dear

 3. Intrusive [l]



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 26 Apr 1996 11:51:26 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Epenthetic [l] in _home_



Wayne,

    Maybe the  hulves  as plural of  hoof  was subliminal interference

from  calf  -  calves , since calves (for which the  l  is "silent") have

hooves. Maybe sort of like the  l  in  could . Analogy produces interesting

results sometimes.

        Rudy



--Rudy Troike (rtroike[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccit.arizona.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 26 Apr 1996 13:20:16 -0600

From:  Bruce Gelder  bgelder[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CAMEL.CORP.ES.COM 

Subject: Re: Epenthetic [l] in _home_



 And let's not forget that there's another legitimate English word that

 might be providing the interference as well, one in which the /l/ IS

 pronounced: the surname Holmes (as in Sherlock).



The interference in "ho[l]me," I mean, not the interference in [hulves].



-Bruce



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 26 Apr 1996 13:16:38 -0600

From:  Bruce Gelder  bgelder[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CAMEL.CORP.ES.COM 

Subject: Re: Epenthetic [l] in _home_



     Maybe the  hulves  as plural of  hoof  was subliminal interference

 from  calf  -  calves , since calves (for which the  l  is "silent") have

 hooves. Maybe sort of like the  l  in  could . Analogy produces interesting

 results sometimes.



And let's not forget that there's another legitimate English word that

might be providing the interference as well, one in which the /l/ IS

pronounced: the surname Holmes (as in Sherlock).



Bruce



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 26 Apr 1996 15:34:35 EST

From:  simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU

Subject: Re: Epenthetic [l] in _home_



Re Sherlock ho[l]z:



I didn't put the [l] in Sherlock Holmes until at least after the movie

version of The Seven Percent Solution.



Beth (in Des Moines, it was Sherlock Homes) Simon



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 26 Apr 1996 14:51:06 -0600

From:  Bruce Gelder  bgelder[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CAMEL.CORP.ES.COM 

Subject: Re: Elementary, My Dear



 I didn't put the [l] in Sherlock Holmes until at least after the movie

 version of The Seven Percent Solution.



Really? So even that is dialectal, I guess. I shouldn't be surprised.

I've just never heard "Sherlock Homes," is all.



I've been trying to formulate a phonological explanation for this

l-0 (el-null) alternation, but so far have been unsuccessful. The

only preliminary patterns I'm finding so far are that the phenomenon

seems to be occurring in short, monosyllabic, CV_C (or possibly CCV_C)

(where the _ represents the "l") words, and that the vowel before the

epenthesized (or not) [l] is nonhigh. But there are probably lots of

exceptions to that. Anyway, I haven't come up with anything satisfactory.



Bruce



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 26 Apr 1996 21:50:53 -0400

From:  Bryan Gick  bryan.gick[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALE.EDU 

Subject: Intrusive [l]



Dear Paul et al.-



 My apologies for the 100-plus-line reply (I guarantee that by the end

of it you won't have unwittingly purchased a single magazine), but it seems

there's been lots of interest in this in the last couple days, and since

Beth has suggested I'm the one to ask, I figure I'll try to share what

knowledge I've managed to gather on the subject.



 I've been investigating the "intrusive [l]" (I am mostly interested in

those cases where epenthesis is arguably syllabically motivated..e.g. "i

saw[l]it," "He's draw[l]ing a picture..") for about...oh, 6 or 7

years now. It's got some very interesting and surprisingly far-reaching

implications as an example of a heretofore all-but-unknown hiatus

consonant in English (not least significant of which is to call into

question any non-phonologically motivated accounts of intrusive [r]).

I'd be very interested in knowing whether there are any materials out

there that have escaped my view (make that, _how much_ of what's out there

has escaped my view).

 I've edited down (apologies to the editees) those responses

to Paul's original question that had been posted as of this morning, and

I'll give specific comments where I can.. but to save myself some time, i've

tacked on at the end of this message a version of an abstract (to go out

soon) containing some relevant info, including some of the very few

references that I've found to be of interest.

 My work on this at present involves mostly experimental phonology work

(primarily articulatory) on hiatus phenomena and glides and such. I intend

to present the L stuff as soon as possible (possibly at ESCOL, pending

acceptance). Anyone interested in this and similar phenomena can either

contact me personally, look on my web page for updates (I haven't

actually gotten it up and running as yet, but when I do, it'll be at:

http://pantheon.cis.yale.edu/~bgick/ ) or wait (with crossed fingers) for

the publication.

 Here's some of what has been said so far:

  ----------------------------------------------------------------------

  From:  Paul Fallon  pfallon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]S850.MWC.EDU 

  Subject: Epenthetic [l] in _home_

  I've recently become aware of an epenthetic velarized [l] (el) in the

  word _home_ ... Can anyone guide me to any relevent literature or

  date of discussion on this list so I can search the logs?

  The speakers who do this are from Maryland and Pennsylvania. (Anywhere

  else?) ... Best,    Paul Fallon

***For this kind of coda stuff (I've collected "Hal nal, braln cal?"

in Philly), Sherry Ash's paper and dissertation (see refs below)

are good. She's concerned mostly with the converse, but closely

intertwined, phenomenon of "/l/-vocalization." - BWG.

  ------------------------------

  From:  simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU

  Bryan Gick has done work on what he describes as "intrusive l".

  Contact him at bryan.gick[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]yale.edu.     beth

  --------------------------------

  From:  Wayne Glowka  wglowka[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAIL.GAC.PEACHNET.EDU 

  Last night I was reading a student paper. Instead of "hooves" (a possible

  plural of "hoof"), the student wrote "hulves." I do not know where he

  comes from.    Wayne Glowka  Georgia College

***there are lots of examples of similar spelling errors in John Lutz'

(unpublished) paper, taken from H.S. students at the Ohio/WV/KY juncture.I

also have lots of spelling errors of philly school kids (saw=sol, etc.).

I'd be interested to know where this student is from, if its no trouble-BWG

  ------------------------------

  From:  "Dale F.Coye"  CoyeCFAT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

  ... This is especially common in black English, but I have also heard it

  in SE Pa.    Dale Coye

***In my experience the two, though similar, show some difft behaviors-BWG

 ------------------------------

  From:  "David Bergdahl (614) 593-2783"  BERGDAHL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU 

  For the longest time I've noticed a velarized reflex of an epenthetic [l]

  in one word in my own speech, Oklahoma.

  David Bergdahl    Ohio University / Athens

***Are you originally from Athens? If so, your right in the thick of it-BWG

  ------------------------------

  From:  Samuel Jones  smjones1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU 

  ... part of the reason for the epenthetic "l" may have to

  do with the diphthonging of the "O"[o + short "u"]. As the lips round

  and closure proceeds, the lower jaw rises. Inside the mouth, the tongue

  also rises ... the apex of the tongue moves quite close to the

  palatal or alveolar position needed for the lateral continuant "L"...

  DR. SAMUEL M. JONES   University of Wisconsin-Madison

***as far as i've been able to gather, there's very little going on in

the realm of the tongue tip gesture that's significant in the coda [l]'s,

underlying or otherwise. This fact is actually central to a coherent

account of the "merger" (say, of "draw/drawl") having occured at all..

I am, though, convinced that articulatory properties are decidedly more

than incidentally involved in such an account. - BWG

--------------------------------------------------------

            "The Intrusive L"

              Bryan Gick

 Yale University, Department of Linguistics (and Haskins Laboratories).

(preliminary abstract, copyright Bryan W. Gick, 1996)

    In this paper I shall discuss a very widespread and linguistically

highly significant yet almost completely unnoticed phenomenon of English

speech that is, to the best of my knowledge, utterly unique to American

dialects*. After a long-standing tradition of study of a parallel phenomenon

well known in dialects of English - intrusive (and linking) R - I refer to

it as the "intrusive L" (after Gick, 1991).

    The intrusive L, to those who have heard it, is very similar to the

intrusive R of many dialects of English (e.g. "I saw[r]it,"

"draw[r]ing"), and is the quite unmistakable "intrusion" or epenthesis of

a "clear" [l] into the hiatus between a low vowel (i.e., [a] or "open o,"

though these two are merged in many of the L-intruding dialects) and a

following vowel, thus: "saw it" becomes "saw[l]it," "drawing" and "drawling"

merge into "draw[l]ing," and the expression "awe inspiring" is often

reanalyzed as "all inspiring."

    Perhaps the most surprising fact about the intrusive L is its

almost complete lack of recognition in either decriptive or analytical

terms, despite its distinctive nature and its broad distribution

throughout some of the most thoroughly studied linguistic regions of

America (it is attested, to the best of my knowledge, only in

unpublished studies by this author and a few others - Lutz, 1984; Gick,

1991; Miller, 1993 - as extending at least from Philadelphia through much

of Southern and Central Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, across Southern

Ohio and continuing strongly through the Ohio/West Virginia/Kentucky

tri-state area, and surely beyond).

    Until now, the "hiatus consonant" market has been completely

dominated by discussion of intrusive R (surely because of its marked

presence in prestige dialects of Southern England). The present

study of the implications of intrusive L will (briefly) call upon recent

work in both theoretical and laboratory (articulatory) phonology to better

understand the phenomenon itself and to show that these different intrusive

consonants in English are in some sense instances of the same phenomenon

- that this phenomenon can no longer simply be explained away as a one-

off lexical anomaly, but must be seen as driven by a much more general

tendency of the English language.



*the only similar case to my knowledge outside of the U.S. is in the

dialect of Bristol, England. There are some (perhaps damning)

differences, but it presents an interesting parallel. The single extensive

work on this dialect to my knowledge is in German (Weissmann, 1970).

_____________

Some References:

Ash, Sharon. 1982. "The Vocalization of Intervocalic /l/ in

    Philadelphia." SECOL Review 6:162-175.

Browman, Catherine P. and Louis Goldstein. 1992. "Articulatory Phonology:

    An Overview." Phonetica 49:155-180.

Gick, Bryan. 1991. A Phonologically Motivated Theory of Intrusive

    Consonants and Related Phenomena in English. Unpublished thesis,

    Edinburgh U.

Lutz, John. A Study of a Midwestern Dialect Using a Computational Model

    for Linguistic Variation. Unpublished thesis, Harvard U.

McCarthy, John. 1993. "A Case of Surface Constraint Violation." Canadian

    Journal of Linguistics 38:169-195.

Miller, Corey. 1993. "Intrusive l in Delaware English." (unpublished)

    paper presented at NWAVE 22, Ottowa.

Sproat, Richard and Osamu Fujimura. 1993. "Allophonic Variation in

    English /l/ and Its Implications for Phonetic Implementation."

    Journal of Phonetics 21:291-311.

Weissmann, E. 1970. "Phonematische Analyse des Stadtdialektes von

    Bristol." Phonetica 21:151-181,211-240.



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 25 Apr 1996 to 26 Apr 1996

************************************************





There are 3 messages totalling 73 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Epenthetic [l]

 2. "Language for Time Travelers"

 3. elementary questions



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 27 Apr 1996 13:54:57 -0500

From:  "David A. Johns"  daj000[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FOX.WAY.PEACHNET.EDU 

Subject: Epenthetic [l]



  Last night I was reading a student paper. Instead of "hooves" (a

  possible plural of "hoof"), the student wrote "hulves." I do not

  know where he comes from.



This may be related to a phenomenon I noticed during the 80s while I

was at the University of Florida.



Younger Floridians do not have a COT/CAUGHT distinction. Most of

these speakers, however, do have a phonetic [O] before /l/, as in

BALL. The [l] is pronounced (often vocalized) finally or before a

vowel, but when a consonant follows, it can be lost, leaving the [O]

to bear the contrast; there are clear minimal pairs like BAUD [bad]

: BALD [bOd]. Strangely, I even knew a couple of people who had [O]

in TALK, WALK, etc., where an L is written, but not in any of the

other words that traditionally had [O].  I also heard this vowel

where the written language has short U before the L; in fact, I first

noticed it when listening to a gymnast talking about her

"composseries" (with [O]).



So anyway, if Floridians are creating a new [O] out of [&l] and [al],

maybe other areas are developing a new source of [U] in the same way,

so that [hUf] is open to interpretation as coming from HULF.



David Johns

Waycross College

Waycross, GA



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 27 Apr 1996 19:02:03 -0500

From:  Dan Goodman  goodman[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FREENET.MSP.MN.US 

Subject: "Language for Time Travelers"



"Language for Time Travelers" by L. Sprague De Camp was published in

Astounding Science Fiction in 1938. The magazine (now called Analog)

might be ready for another article on the subject by now. If not, one of

the other science fiction magazines might be interested.



I think De Camp's article is most easily available now in _The Best of L.

Sprague De Camp_.



It was less inclusive than the title indicates; it concentrated on English.



Dan Goodman



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 27 Apr 1996 19:11:20 -0500

From:  Dan Goodman  goodman[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FREENET.MSP.MN.US 

Subject: elementary questions



Some questions which are probably elementary:



1) Is there a term in between rhotic and nonrhotic? (I pronounce only

the second r in "partridge" but both r's in "airport".)



2) Is there any guide to American AND Canadian varieties of English?

That is, one which doesn't assume all dialects stop bang at the political

border.



3) Is there any guide to _when_ geographical varieties of English took

more or less their present forms? For example, the Metropolitan New York

dialect was probably once close enough to the Hudson Valley dialect that

an outsider wouldn't have been able to hear the difference.



Dan Goodman



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 26 Apr 1996 to 27 Apr 1996

************************************************





There are 3 messages totalling 53 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. 411 new usage (2)

 2. 9= police



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 28 Apr 1996 08:50:02 -0700

From:  SETH SKLAREY  crissiet[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IX.NETCOM.COM 

Subject: Re: 411 new usage



Here's the 411.



Was used in a recent college democrats of america posting for

here's the information.



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 28 Apr 1996 08:54:37 -0700

From:  SETH SKLAREY  crissiet[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IX.NETCOM.COM 

Subject: Re: 9= police



How did the number 9, nines, or 99 come to be used as street slang for the

police?

============



A number of years ago I asked a wayward uncle of mine why he called the

police "fuzz"?



He replied, "Because they are always fuzzing around."



crissiet[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ix.netcom.com (SETH SKLAREY)



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 28 Apr 1996 12:00:15 -0400

From:  "M. Lynne Murphy"  104LYN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MUSE.ARTS.WITS.AC.ZA 

Subject: Re: 411 new usage



  Here's the 411.

 

  Was used in a recent college democrats of america posting for

  here's the information.



this is at least a few years old. i think it may have been used in

rap songs--can't remember where i know it from. (i think "what's the

411?" is what i've heard--as a greeting.)



works much better than "here's the 555-1212."

lynne



---------------------------------------------------------------------

M. Lynne Murphy              104lyn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]muse.arts.wits.ac.za

Department of Linguistics            phone: 27(11)716-2340

University of the Witwatersrand          fax: 27(11)716-8030

Johannesburg 2050

SOUTH AFRICA



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 27 Apr 1996 to 28 Apr 1996

************************************************





There are 17 messages totalling 314 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. 411 new usage

 2. epenthetic /l/ and notation woes (2)

 3. 9= police (7)

 4. ADS-L Digest - 26 Apr 1996 to 27 Apr 1996

 5. help a reporter?

 6. I need help (2)

 7. Florida l-lessness

 8. I wish I may, I wish I might (revisited)

 9. nickels & dimes



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Apr 1996 08:49:00 -0400

From:  "Margaret G. Lee -English"  mlee[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CS.HAMPTONU.EDU 

Subject: Re: 411 new usage



"What's the 411?" was a song released in 1992 by R&B singer Mary J. Blige

and rap artist Grand Puba. In it, in response to his showing interest in

her, she asks him why she should choose him over any other eligible love

interests, in other words, "What's the 411?" -- "What do you have that they

don't have?"



Margaret Lee

Hampton University

mlee[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cs.hamptonu.edu



On Sun, 28 Apr 1996, M. Lynne Murphy wrote:



    Here's the 411.

   

    Was used in a recent college democrats of america posting for

    here's the information.

 

  this is at least a few years old. i think it may have been used in

  rap songs--can't remember where i know it from. (i think "what's the

  411?" is what i've heard--as a greeting.)

 

  works much better than "here's the 555-1212."

  lynne

 

  ---------------------------------------------------------------------

  M. Lynne Murphy              104lyn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]muse.arts.wits.ac.za

  Department of Linguistics            phone: 27(11)716-2340

  University of the Witwatersrand          fax: 27(11)716-8030

  Johannesburg 2050

  SOUTH AFRICA

 



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Apr 1996 10:12:33 -0400

From:  "Dale F.Coye"  CoyeCFAT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Re: epenthetic /l/ and notation woes



2 points:



Holmes is definitely L-less for me, and I believe in the UK as well.

Historically it should be L-less as should Stockholm, calm, balm, alms, etc

(see Dobson v.2. sect. 425 and my article in AS 69) but there has been some

back and forth with words like falcon, vault, cauldron, and recently, calm,

et al.



Second- I tried to follow David Johns discussion about Florida speech but

couldn't decipher the notation. I'm not sure what [O] symbolizes. The usual

cardinal vowel or American low-back-round? And this statement



there are clear minimal pairs like BAUD [bad]: BALD [bOd]



 confused me as well.  Is there some established convention that translates

IPA into our ordinary keyboard symbols and if there isn't, could I propose

that the powers-that-be for the ADS establish one so we don't always have to

say -- the vowel in boat, or "short u".



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Apr 1996 10:59:01 -0400

From:  Wayne Glowka  wglowka[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAIL.GAC.PEACHNET.EDU 

Subject: Re: epenthetic /l/ and notation woes



 2 points:

 

 Holmes is definitely L-less for me, and I believe in the UK as well.

 Historically it should be L-less as should Stockholm, calm, balm, alms, etc

 (see Dobson v.2. sect. 425 and my article in AS 69) but there has been some

 back and forth with words like falcon, vault, cauldron, and recently, calm,

 et al.





Yes, for seventy pages or so of discussion on the /l/ or lack of /l/ in

certain words like "folklore," you may want to look at the archives of this

list for last fall under "folklore" (although other subject headings were

relevant).  The student who asked the original question about the /l/ in

the first syllable of "folklore" apologized for causing all the trouble.





Wayne Glowka

Professor of English

Director of Research and Graduate Student Services

Georgia College

Milledgeville, GA 31061

912-453-4222

wglowka[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mail.gac.peachnet.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Apr 1996 09:44:19 MST

From:  Tom Uharriet  UTOM[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ADMN.SHS.NEBO.EDU 

Subject: Re: 9= police



  How did the number 9, nines, or 99 come to be used as street slang

  for the police?



What other numbers have special street slang meaning?





utom[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]admn.shs.nebo.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Apr 1996 10:56:49 -0500

From:  Tom Beckner  TMBECKNER[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]TAYLORU.EDU 

Subject: Re: 9= police



In prisons, 911 is sometimes used to refer to both "snitches" and to the

officers to which they give information. In one of my recent interviews--

in New Jersey--I also heard 411 used in the same way.



I expect that 9 is merely a shortened form of that, although that might not

explain 99 (how about the old agent 99 as a possible source?)

tmbeckner[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]tayloru.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Apr 1996 12:22:04 -0400

From:  Bryan Gick  bryan.gick[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALE.EDU 

Subject: Re: ADS-L Digest - 26 Apr 1996 to 27 Apr 1996



Just in case anyone has tried to contact me in the last day or two

regarding my recent posting on intrusive [l], my email has been down.

Please try, try again..  thanks.

bryan



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Apr 1996 13:43:06 -0400

From:  "Margaret G. Lee -English"  mlee[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CS.HAMPTONU.EDU 

Subject: Re: 9= police



On Mon, 29 Apr 1996, Tom Uharriet wrote:



    How did the number 9, nines, or 99 come to be used as street slang

    for the police?

 

  What other numbers have special street slang meaning?

utom[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]admn.shs.nebo.edu

 

 There are many numbers used in street slang; here are a few:



 40 (forty) 40 ounce beer

 24-7 (24 hours a day, seven days a week)

 high-five

 five-o (police)

 six-pack (tight, flat stomach)

 Deuce and a Quarter (1960's) Buick Electra 225



Margaret Lee

mlee[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cs.hamptonu.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Apr 1996 14:58:29 -0500

From:  Tom Beckner  TMBECKNER[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]TAYLORU.EDU 

Subject: Re: 9= police



Other numbers would include nickel, dime, and quarter to refer to a quantity

of drugs or amount of money. Five-o, of course, comes from the tv series,

Hawaii Five-O.



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Apr 1996 18:35:06 CDT

From:  Marla Broom  mlbroom[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SAUMAG.EDU 

Subject: Re: 9= police



This is an old one, but a number none the less: if a person is 86'd from

a bar, they are thrown out. No one I ever asked knew why this was so.

Marla



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Apr 1996 19:55:29 -0400

From:  STEPHANIE RAE WELLS  srwell01[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MOREHEAD-ST.EDU 

Subject: Re: 9= police



Please remove my name from the list.





srwell01[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]msuacad.morehead-st.edu

thanks...



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Apr 1996 20:35:47 -0400

From:  Benjamin Barrett  Gogaku[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GNN.COM 

Subject: Re: 9= police



"The chocolate cake is 86'd!" is a common use of 86 in restaurants to mean

it's all gone. I would think that being thrown out of a bar might have come

as an adapted meaning, but I've never heard the expression "they were 86'd

from Joe's Tavern before."



 Date:     Mon, 29 Apr 1996 18:35:06 CDT

 From: Marla Broom  mlbroom[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SAUMAG.EDU 

 Sender:    American Dialect Society  ADS-L[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UGA.CC.UGA.EDU 

 To:  Multiple recipients of list ADS-L  ADS-L[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UGA.CC.UGA.EDU 

 Subject:    Re: 9= police

 

 This is an old one, but a number none the less: if a person is 86'd from

 a bar, they are thrown out. No one I ever asked knew why this was so.

 Marla

Benjamin Barrett

gogaku[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]gnn.com

http://members.gnn.com/gogaku/translator.htm



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:06:33 -0400

From:  Jacob Stohler  jstohler[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NANDO.NET 

Subject: help a reporter?



My name is Jacob Stohler and I write for The News & Observer in Raleigh,

NC. I'm working on a story about the increased use of the word "duh" --

as in "well, duh!" -- but can't find any formal info on it. Has anyone

published, researched, written or otherwise explored this particular

piece of slang? If so, I'd like to pick your brain, either by email or

phone.



Jacob Stohler

(919) 544-0059



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:20:58 +0000

From:  Jan&Kristin  kj420[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAIL.ID.NET 

Subject: I need help



Hello there-



A quick introduction: My name is Jan Richter, German citizen, lived and

studied in the US for the last six years, currently residing in Detroit,

MI.



Natalie Maynor pointed out this list to me in my cry for help. Here's

my problem: I am trying to research a subject for my brother in

Germany, and so far I've come up empty. The topic: A stylistic

analysis of the way Jesse Jackson speaks.



If there's anyone out there who knows anything about this or can point

me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it.



Jan Richter

kj420[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mail.id.net



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:22:48 EST

From:  Boyd Davis  FEN00BHD[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UNCCVM.UNCC.EDU 

Subject: Re: I need help



For Jan&Kristin re Jesse Jackson: see Deborah Tannen's Speaking Voices



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Apr 1996 21:45:34 -0500

From:  Beth and Ed Deluzain  bethed[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]INTEROZ.COM 

Subject: Florida l-lessness



    David Johns noted that younger Floridians substitute [O] for l in

some words. In the Florida Panhandle, the dialect is almost completely

l-less post-vocalicly. Thus, the Gulf of Mexico becomes the Guff, golf

becomes goff, wolf becomes woof, help becomes hep, etc. One of the counties

in the Panhandle is Holmes County, which is always pronounced Homes. I

always assumed that was the result of l-lessness.



    I was somewhat surprised by his observation that younger Floridians

don't have the cot/caught distinction because my observations, as well as

the results of my direct questions about that pair of words, suggest that

they do, at least in this part of the state. Those who don't usually are

recent arrivals to the area. By the way, I live in Panama City, FL.



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:51:07 EDT

From:  Larry Horn  LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU 

Subject: I wish I may, I wish I might (revisited)



No, I'm not revisiting myself. but I thought the participants in our earlier

discussion might (and indeed MAY) be interested to know that it's the topic of

this week's Safire "On Language" column, under the header "May Day! Might

Day!" What set him off was a comment by Mortimer Zuckerman, editor in chief

of the U.S. News & World Report, that a certain Whitewater report "may well

have been written in invisible ink for all the attention it has had." In the

process of casting his semantic nets thither and yon for awhile, Safire refers

to Zuckerman's "misuse of MAY", which should have been "MIGHT". I suppose

it's just the prescriptivist version of the split we observed, with Safire

(like most of us) among the old fogeys and Zuckerman (although he presumably

can't use age as an excuse) among the innovators.



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Apr 1996 20:37:33 -0700

From:  SETH SKLAREY  crissiet[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IX.NETCOM.COM 

Subject: Re: nickels & dimes



Tom Uharriet asked:

 What other numbers have special street slang meaning?



Nickels and dimes are $5 & $10 units of street narcotics.



86 was always discard, although I don't know the origin (not street language

though)



many number uses originate from the police 10-code or from CB usage



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 28 Apr 1996 to 29 Apr 1996

************************************************





There are 16 messages totalling 465 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. `scare-quotes' (2)

 2. Florida l-lessness (2)

 3. I wish I may, I wish I might (revisited) (2)

 4. 86 (2)

 5. usage newsletter

 6. scare quotes (2)

 7. help a reporter? (3)

 8. Humanities Day May 2 in Washington DC

 9. Numbers with meanings



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Apr 1996 06:12:04 -0400

From:  "M. Lynne Murphy"  104LYN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MUSE.ARTS.WITS.AC.ZA 

Subject: `scare-quotes'



below is a request i've had from a south african lexicographer on

behalf of the OED. it seems they had not heard of "scare quotes"

until they read a paper of mine. another case of me speaking

american english without realizing it.



does anyone have any citations or etymological info? it's not in

_american heritage_ (the only u.s. dictionary i have at the office).

any idea how old it is?



i pointed out in my response to the below that i think "scare quotes"

can also be used to refer to the gesture of miming double quotes with

two fingers on each hand.



respond to me or the list, and i'll summarize for penny & edmund.



thanks,



lynne murphy





------- Forwarded Message Follows -------

From:     "Penny Silva"  PENNY[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]Aardvark.ru.ac.za 

Organization: Dictionary Unit for SA English

To:      "M. Lynne Murphy"  104LYN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]muse.arts.wits.ac.za 

Date:     Tue, 30 Apr 1996 10:02:49 +200

Subject:    `scare-quotes'



Hi Lynne,



We're having some correspondence with OED on

this. Having pointed out your use of the word, we

discover that it isn't reflected in their holdings at

all! Do you know its etymology? age? Presumably

it's only found in US Eng.? I heard Richard Bailey

using it last year and wondered, at the time.



Edmund Weiner would be delighted to get hold of

some citations illustrating its use, if you come across

any...



Best wishes



Penny

Penny Silva - Director - Dictionary Unit for SA English - Rhodes University

PO Box 94 - Grahamstown 6140 - South Africa. Tel. (0461) 31-8107.

Fax No. (0461) 25642. E-mail: Penny[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aardvark.ru.ac.za



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Apr 1996 08:08:38 -0400

From:  Wayne Glowka  wglowka[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAIL.GAC.PEACHNET.EDU 

Subject: Re: Florida l-lessness



This discussion of post-vocalic /l/ has jogged my memory about some men's

room graffiti over in the education building. Some University of Georgia

football fan has recently written some unkind words above the urinal about

"Ray Golf." Another person has written an unkind correction indicating

that the sad man's name is "Goff."



Some misspelled obscene Spanish is written below this exchange, and I have

refrained from correcting the spelling.





Wayne Glowka

Professor of English

Director of Research and Graduate Student Services

Georgia College

Milledgeville, GA 31061

912-453-4222

wglowka[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mail.gac.peachnet.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Apr 1996 08:39:28 -0400

From:  David Muschell  dmuschel[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAIL.GAC.PEACHNET.EDU 

Subject: Re: I wish I may, I wish I might (revisited)



 No, I'm not revisiting myself. but I thought the participants in our earlier

 discussion might (and indeed MAY) be interested to know that it's the topic of

 this week's Safire "On Language" column, under the header "May Day! Might

 Day!" What set him off was a comment by Mortimer Zuckerman, editor in chief

 of the U.S. News & World Report, that a certain Whitewater report "may well

 have been written in invisible ink for all the attention it has had." In the

 process of casting his semantic nets thither and yon for awhile, Safire refers

 to Zuckerman's "misuse of MAY", which should have been "MIGHT". I suppose

 it's just the prescriptivist version of the split we observed, with Safire

 (like most of us) among the old fogeys and Zuckerman (although he presumably

 can't use age as an excuse) among the innovators.



Ah, the rule-makers and rule-defenders: we know that without them language

would surely fall into anarchy! But should we scold Safire for using the

phoneticized English version of the French "m'aider" just to get an

attention-grabbing headline? Such purists must know that language and its

rules never change...He might have been indicating a celebratory feeling

about the fertility and burgeoning of language since the capital letters

might be an allusion to tomorrow's more pagan festivities...Yes, that may

well be.



Forgive: I haven't had time to write in months!



David



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Apr 1996 08:40:02 EDT

From:  Larry Horn  LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU 

Subject: Re: `scare-quotes'



I can't remember my first acquaintance with 'scare-quotes' per se, but I'm

pretty sure the context was either a paper or a talk by a philosopher. I think

the term has been extant in philosophical circles for some time. I'd be in-

terested in actual citations myself, though. On first hearing I probably mis-

parsed it as "scarecrows" before working it out.



 Larry



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Apr 1996 08:43:32 EDT

From:  Larry Horn  LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU 

Subject: Re: I wish I may, I wish I might (revisited)



In response to David's query: as it happens, Safire includes the "m'aider"

story for "May Day".  Given my overall impression of Safire, I was wondering

whether it might (#may) have been a folk etymology, so David's parallel

observation is reassuring.



           L.



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Apr 1996 09:18:36 MST

From:  Tom Uharriet  UTOM[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ADMN.SHS.NEBO.EDU 

Subject: 86



   This is an old one, but a number none the less: if a person is 86'd from

   a bar, they are thrown out. No one I ever asked knew why this was so.

   Marla

  Benjamin Barrett



As I recall, when a patron has had a little too much to drink, the

bartender keeps up the sales while lowering the affect by watering

down the drinks. What was represented as being 100 proof is reduced

to 86. At least that's how the expression was explained to me in Los

Angeles a decade or so ago.



Tom Uharriet











utom[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]admn.shs.nebo.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Apr 1996 11:21:06 EDT

From:  "Steven K. Brehe"  SBREHE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NUGGET.NGC.PEACHNET.EDU 

Subject: Re: 86



I believe 86 was discussed pretty thoroughly on this list several

months ago.



     This is an old one, but a number none the less: if a person is 86'd from

     a bar, they are thrown out. No one I ever asked knew why this was so.

     Marla

    Benjamin Barrett

 

  As I recall, when a patron has had a little too much to drink, the

  bartender keeps up the sales while lowering the affect by watering

  down the drinks. What was represented as being 100 proof is reduced

  to 86. At least that's how the expression was explained to me in Los

  Angeles a decade or so ago.

 

  Tom Uharriet









Steven Brehe

sbrehe[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nugget.ngc.peachnet.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Apr 1996 10:24:42 -0500

From:  Alan R Slotkin  ARS7950[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]TNTECH.EDU 

Subject: usage newsletter



This is to inform the membership that I will be out of the country from 4 May

until 2 June and will have suspended my ads mail until after my return. Anyone

interested in submitting material for the next Usage Newsletter should do so

after the first week in June to be sure that I receive it. Thanks.



-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Alan R. Slotkin

Professor of English

Box 5053

Tennessee Technological University

Cookeville, TN 38505



Phone: 615-372-3262

FAX: 615-372-6142

e-mail: ars7950[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]tntech.edu

-----------------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Apr 1996 11:41:11 -0500

From:  "David A. Johns"  daj000[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FOX.WAY.PEACHNET.EDU 

Subject: Re: Florida l-lessness



      I was somewhat surprised by his observation that younger Floridians

  don't have the cot/caught distinction because my observations, as well as

  the results of my direct questions about that pair of words, suggest that

  they do, at least in this part of the state. Those who don't usually are

  recent arrivals to the area. By the way, I live in Panama City, FL.



Let me draw a more comprehensive -- although still completely

impressionistic -- map.



First, I have heard the typically southern rising diphthong [aw] in

CAUGHT, etc., only from the Panhandle. There seems to be an isogloss

that roughly follows the Florida-Georgia line west from Jacksonville

and cuts south somewhere past Tallahassee. Right now I know a 60-ish

man from Mariana who has it and a 40-ish woman from Tallahassee who

has a falling diphthong (next paragraph).



Older speakers in roughly the northern half of the peninsula have a

"standard" [O] (i.e., low back slightly rounded) tending toward a New

Yorkish falling diphthong ([O- schwa ]). I know two women, one about

40 from Fernandina Beach (north of Jacksonville) and one about 50

from Ocala, who have the falling diphthong. If I remember correctly,

some of the speakers in recent TV interviews about the Rosewood

massacre (they'd be in at least their late 70s now) also had this

vowel; I'm sure none of them had [aw], which suggests that [aw] never

spread that far south (near Tampa).



Younger people from the entire peninsula, whether speakers of a

mainly southern variety or one of the more northern accents of the

cities, have a low central-to-back unrounded vowel in both the COT

words and the CAUGHT words.



This "map" is nothing but a compilation of eleven years of listening

to undergraduates and others at UF in Gainesville, plus a certain

amount of traveling around the area. It would certainly be

interesting to see a formal study of Florida accents, which seem to

be changing in both geographical and social dimensions.



David Johns

Waycross College

Waycross, GA



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Apr 1996 12:53:16 -0400

From:  "M. Lynne Murphy"  104LYN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MUSE.ARTS.WITS.AC.ZA 

Subject: scare quotes



i've been looking in likely places for citations of "scare quotes."

(i've got to write 3 exams for tomorrow. i think this explains my

vigorous interest in finding citations today.) and i've only found

one, but here it is, for what it's worth.



from a handout given to students by georgia green (ca. 1990, dept.

of linguistics, university of illinois/urbana):



        A STOPLIST OF WORDS AND MORPHEMES



Your claims will be more testable, and your prose more persuasive if

the following words do not appear in it.



1  Hedges

_should_, _may_, _can_, _seem_, _considered_, _likely, scare quotes*



*Use italics or underlining to mark linguistic expressions cited as

forms, single quotes to mark meanings. Use double quotes for

direct quotation only. Do not use scare quotes at all. Do as I

say, not as I do.



...





---------------------------------------------------------------------

M. Lynne Murphy              104lyn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]muse.arts.wits.ac.za

Department of Linguistics            phone: 27(11)716-2340

University of the Witwatersrand          fax: 27(11)716-8030

Johannesburg 2050

SOUTH AFRICA



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Apr 1996 14:44:27 -0500

From:  "David Bergdahl (614) 593-2783"  BERGDAHL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU 

Subject: Re: help a reporter?



On DUH: my daughter Erika (who's 28) used this in its earlier form of DOY in

elementary school 20 yrs ago. My 11 yr-old at the same school says DUH to

underscore a really stupid, obviously true assertion, such as only a parent can

make. Now often preceeded by LIKE. So the form has been around a good while

and may have initially been a portmanteau of Duh + Oy in Athens.

    ______________________________________________________

    David Bergdahl     BERGDAHL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU

    Associate Professor of English Language and Literature

    Ohio University / Athens      fax: (614) 593-2818

    ______________________________________________________



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Apr 1996 13:43:57 EDT

From:  Larry Horn  LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU 

Subject: Re: scare quotes



Barbara Abbott reminds me that some philosophers (Putnam, maybe in "The Meaning

of Meaning", 1975?) refers to them as "shudder quotes". These terms were both

extant in philosopher circles as of the 1970's, but might be older. I wouldn't

be surprised to find one of them--probably the "shudder" variety--in J. L.

Austin's work.      --Larry



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Apr 1996 13:23:41 PDT

From:  Duane Campbell  dcamp[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]EPIX.NET 

Subject: Re: help a reporter?



--- On Tue, 30 Apr 1996 14:44:27 -0500 "David Bergdahl (614) 593-2783"

 BERGDAHL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU  wrote:



 On DUH: my daughter Erika (who's 28) used this in its earlier form of DOY in

 elementary school 20 yrs ago.



DUH was a conversational staple in my high school years in Pennsylvania in the

mid-1950's. Do I win anything?





Duane Campbell

dcamp[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]epix.net



In the beginning the Earth was without form and void.

Why didn't they leave well enough alone?



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Apr 1996 15:34:05 -0400

From:  Allan Metcalf  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Humanities Day May 2 in Washington DC



This is short notice, but if there should be any ADS member who would like to

participate in the "Humanities Day" organized by the National Humanities

Alliance, let me know asap and I'll make the arrangements.

- Allan Metcalf, ADS executive secretary  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com 

---------------------------

Announcement from NHA:



HUMANITIES DAY

Thursday, 2 May 1996

Senate Caucus Room

Russell Senate Building Room 325

    Russell Building is on the corner of Constitution Ave.

    and First St., NE. The nearest metro stop is Union

    Station on the Red Line.



Registration  8:00 am

        Continental breakfast will be served



Program     8:30 am - 10:00 am



        Ken Burns will speak and show a preview of his new

        documentary entitled "The West."



        Mark Twain will visit from the Chautaqua big top.



        Sheldon Hackney and Sharon Percy Rockefeller, President

        and CEO of WETA, Washington's public TV station, will

        give brief remarks.



        Several members of Congress will also give brief remarks,

        including: Senator Ted Stevens (R-AK), Senator Thad Cochran

        (R-MS), Senator Robert Bennett (R-UT), Senator James

        Jeffords (R-VT), Senator Claiborne Pell (D-RI), Rep. Tillie

        Fowler (R-FL), Rep. Amo Houghton (R-NY), Rep. Sherwood

        Boehlert (R-NY), and Rep. Peter Torkildsen (R-MA).



        Forty-one other members of Congress and 118 congressional

        staffers have RSVP'ed to participate.



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Apr 1996 16:12:53 -0700

From:  Peter McGraw  pmcgraw[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CALVIN.LINFIELD.EDU 

Subject: Re: help a reporter?



On Tue, 30 Apr 1996, Duane Campbell wrote:



  --- On Tue, 30 Apr 1996 14:44:27 -0500 "David Bergdahl (614) 593-2783"

   BERGDAHL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU  wrote:

 

   On DUH: my daughter Erika (who's 28) used this in its earlier form of DOY in

   elementary school 20 yrs ago.

 

  DUH was a conversational staple in my high school years in Pennsylvania in the

  mid-1950's. Do I win anything?

 

 

  Duane Campbell

  dcamp[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]epix.net





Same here, also mid-50s, only across the country, in Oregon. But it was a

different DUH: always pronounced in a drawn-out monotone in conscious

imitation of a stereotypical person of low intelligence, never

incorporated into the normal sentence intonation pattern. We would never

have said, "Well duh!" (with the normal falling intonation) as you hear

it now.



I never heard of "doy".



Peter McGraw

Linfield College

McMinnville, OR



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Apr 1996 08:52:33 +0000

From:  "Albert E. Krahn"  akrahn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IBM.NET 

Subject: Numbers with meanings



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Yes, in restaurant talk, 86 means "we are out of it."



Sometime in the past, the union that represents restaurant workers

has put out a booklet listing all the numbers that have meanings

that are used in restaurants. There are quite a few of them.

Ask your local waitperson for some samples.



AKRA





--PART.BOUNDARY.13.830869011--



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End of ADS-L Digest - 29 Apr 1996 to 30 Apr 1996

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