There are 5 messages totalling 122 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. "False Faces"

 2. Gumbo file' (2)

 3. New Joiner Here (2)



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 1 Jan 1996 22:02:32 GMT

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: "False Faces"



I was interested in Luanne's brief mention of "false faces" in Chicago

since I had forgotten that term, even though it was what we always called

Halloween masks when I was little. Do any of the rest of you remember

using that term?

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 1 Jan 1996 18:48:19 -0400

From:  "E. Wayles Browne"  ewb2[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CORNELL.EDU 

Subject: Gumbo file'



The dictionaries I have at home (Webster's Collegiate 1973, OED 1 with

supplement, Longman Dict. of Contemporary English) don't list

file' (the ingredient of gumbo, made of sassafras root if I'm not

mistaken). Nor does the Nouveau Petit Larousse Illustre'. What

is its etymology? Is it a French loan in English?



Wayles Browne, Assoc. Prof. of Linguistics

Morrill Hall, Cornell University

Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A.

tel. 607-255-0712 (o), 607-273-3009 (h)

e-mail ewb2[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cornell.edu (1989 to 1993 was: jn5j[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cornella.bitnet //

jn5j[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cornella.cit.cornell.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 2 Jan 1996 11:45:51 +0800

From:  Russ McClay  mcclay[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PROQC.COM.TW 

Subject: New Joiner Here



Just a note letting everyone know a new list member has appeared: me.



Discovered ADS-L in an article in our China News, New Years Eve.

They printed the society's list of new words, and via the Internet

I found your site and archives.



After reading through most of logs for 94/95 I decided to subscribe.

I've long been interested in slang and how English changes with the

times. My interest increased when I came Taiwan where I taught

English for the first couple of years of my now going-on-over-

8-year stay.



I'm 40+, born and raised in Southern California. Folks are from

Indiana. I attended college, but 11 years on the road as a

trucker decidedly influenced how I speak today (I somewhat

unfortunately use f***in' in front of a lot of words, which is

something I need to work on with my 2 1/2 year old daughter

around! She's growing up bilingual incidentally. My wife is

Chinese).



My intention is to lurk. But before I get into that mode, thought

I'd throw a few things out there:



A word I've nearly always mispronounced (probably not the right term)

is wash. I pronounce it: warsh, the r sound very soft. (Sorry not

familiar with the codes. And wouldn't know how to use them if I were.)



Toilet: used to get a bit of the r in that too in younger days, but

it's nearly gone now. Besides, I use "head" these days; must be from

my boatbuilding days.



Another is celestial. For some reason I've always slipped an r in

after the t. Though I've nearly cured that one.



Being a newcomer and not a linguist I would imagine some of these have been

discussed before and represent known patterns. But I would like to hear

any comments.



Finally, living overseas makes keeping up on all the current expressions

difficult. One that piqued my interest a year or two ago is "dis" / "dissed".



Believe it or not, in addition to many other kinds of music, I like rap.

This is where I first heard it. It seems to mean "put down", and maybe

derives from "dismissed".



And two more: though I am a touch typist (about 60 wpm, 95% accuracy

excluding numbers), I have what I consider the strange habit of not

typing the "r" when I type the word "your". I've noticed this with

others on the net. And lastly, the word "definitely". I see this word

spelled as often definately as I do the correct way.



Russ

--

m c c l a y

...................................................................

                        mcclay[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]proqc.com.tw

                   http://www.proqc.com/~mcclay/



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 1 Jan 1996 23:15:15 -0400

From:  "Bethany Dumas, UTK"  DUMASB[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Re: Gumbo file'



I don't know its etymology, but it does consist of ground sassafras.



Bethany



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 1 Jan 1996 23:21:36 -0400

From:  "Bethany Dumas, UTK"  DUMASB[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Re: New Joiner Here



Welcome, newcomer Russ McClay.



One comment here. "dis" derives from "disrespect." Odd ambiguities

occasionally occur around "dis". For instance, I use email

distribution lists a lot, especially for on-campus groups. I call them

"dis" groups. I have to remember that some people think that those groups

must be verrrry strange!



Bethany Dumas

English/UTK/Knoxville, TN



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 31 Dec 1995 to 1 Jan 1996

***********************************************





There are 21 messages totalling 531 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. newcomer's warsh (2)

 2. New Joiner Here (3)

 3. Gumbo file' (7)

 4. Frontier Doctors (fwd) -Reply (3)

 5. Frontier Doctors (fwd) -Reply -Reply (2)

 6. Frontier Doctors (fwd)

 7. And The Winners Are...

 8. "False Faces" (2)



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 1 Jan 1996 23:40:58 -0600

From:  Dan Goodman  dsg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU 

Subject: newcomer's warsh



  Date:  Tue, 2 Jan 1996 11:45:51 +0800

  From:  Russ McClay  mcclay[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PROQC.COM.TW 

  Subject: New Joiner Here

 

  Just a note letting everyone know a new list member has appeared: me.

 

  Discovered ADS-L in an article in our China News, New Years Eve.

  They printed the society's list of new words, and via the Internet

  I found your site and archives.

 

  After reading through most of logs for 94/95 I decided to subscribe.

  I've long been interested in slang and how English changes with the

  times. My interest increased when I came Taiwan where I taught

  English for the first couple of years of my now going-on-over-

  8-year stay.

 

  I'm 40+, born and raised in Southern California. Folks are from

  Indiana. I attended college, but 11 years on the road as a

  trucker decidedly influenced how I speak today (I somewhat

  unfortunately use f***in' in front of a lot of words, which is

  something I need to work on with my 2 1/2 year old daughter

  around! She's growing up bilingual incidentally. My wife is

  Chinese).

 

  My intention is to lurk. But before I get into that mode, thought

  I'd throw a few things out there:

 

  A word I've nearly always mispronounced (probably not the right term)

  is wash. I pronounce it: warsh, the r sound very soft. (Sorry not

  familiar with the codes. And wouldn't know how to use them if I were.)

 

  Toilet: used to get a bit of the r in that too in younger days, but

  it's nearly gone now. Besides, I use "head" these days; must be from

  my boatbuilding days.

 

  Another is celestial. For some reason I've always slipped an r in

  after the t. Though I've nearly cured that one.

 

  Being a newcomer and not a linguist I would imagine some of these have been

  discussed before and represent known patterns. But I would like to hear

  any comments.

 

  Finally, living overseas makes keeping up on all the current expressions

  difficult



The intrusive r (I think that's the correct term -- I'm an amateur

myself) probably comes either from where you grew up or from where your

parents grew up. My _guess_ would be that it's from Indiana (it's

stereotypically Indianan).



Keeping up with current expressions can be difficult even living in the

US. I'm in Minneapolis, and a lot of the new terms start either in the

East or the West.



If you're not careful, you might find yourself distributing

questionnaires for one of the professional linguists....



Dan Goodman dsg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]maroon.tc.umn.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 1 Jan 1996 21:52:06 -0800

From:  Dan Moonhawk Alford  dalford[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]S1.CSUHAYWARD.EDU 

Subject: Re: New Joiner Here



Welcome, Lurker!



On Tue, 2 Jan 1996, Russ McClay wrote:



  My intention is to lurk. But before I get into that mode, thought

  I'd throw a few things out there:

 

  Another is celestial. For some reason I've always slipped an r in

  after the t. Though I've nearly cured that one.



Does this therefore become 'celeshtrial'? If so, this fits into previous

discussions of str -  shtr phenomena.



  And two more: though I am a touch typist (about 60 wpm, 95% accuracy

  excluding numbers), I have what I consider the strange habit of not

  typing the "r" when I type the word "your". I've noticed this with

  others on the net.



This sounds like rhota-mysticism!



  And lastly, the word "definitely". I see this word

  spelled as often definately as I do the correct way.



As a descriptively oriented linguistics prof, I must admit I don't know

what to do with this one. I grind my teeth often as I see 'definately'

appear over and over in my students papers. If I knew what the -a- was

based on, like some stressed idiom (DEFinATEly!), I could perhaps

understand this quite widespread misspelling. Is it just that schwa most

often (?!) transliterates as an 'a'? I really don't understand this

amazingly frequent misspelling, tho I try.



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 2 Jan 1996 09:09:54 -0500

From:  Jesse T Sheidlower  jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PANIX.COM 

Subject: Re: Gumbo file'



  The dictionaries I have at home (Webster's Collegiate 1973, OED 1 with

  supplement, Longman Dict. of Contemporary English) don't list

  file' (the ingredient of gumbo, made of sassafras root if I'm not

  mistaken). Nor does the Nouveau Petit Larousse Illustre'. What

  is its etymology? Is it a French loan in English?



According to the Random House Webster's College Dictionary:

   LaF; lit., twisted, ropy, stringy (perh. orig. applied to

 dishes thickened with the powder, ptp. of F _filer_; see

 FILE (which is taken back to OF 'to wind or spin thread',

 with Latin roots appropriately given)



The other current college dictionaries give similar origins.



And it's made from the leaves, not the root, of sassafras, BTW.



Jesse Sheidlower

Random House Reference

 jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]panix.com 



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 2 Jan 1996 09:25:57 -0500

From:  Molly Dickmeyer  dickmeye[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JBLSMTP.PHL.LRPUB.COM 

Subject: Frontier Doctors (fwd) -Reply



Dan Goodman et al:



Has anyone answered privately to your inquiry about the weight

frontier docs used to "anchor" their horses? I'm interested in this

one also.



Molly Dickmeyer

dickmeye[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]phl.lrpub.com



PS--Enjoyed the "20 Questions" feature on Jesse Sheidlower in the

Philadelphia free weekly _City Paper_ last month!



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 2 Jan 1996 10:14:01 -0500

From:  Jesse T Sheidlower  jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PANIX.COM 

Subject: Re: Frontier Doctors (fwd) -Reply



Molly Dickmeyer wrote:

  PS--Enjoyed the "20 Questions" feature on Jesse Sheidlower in the

  Philadelphia free weekly _City Paper_ last month!



Uhhh--Any chance you could post the column for the benefit of those

of us who haven't seen it?



Jesse Sheidlower

Random House Reference

 jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]panix.com 



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 2 Jan 1996 10:50:54 -0500

From:  Molly Dickmeyer  dickmeye[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JBLSMTP.PHL.LRPUB.COM 

Subject: Re: Frontier Doctors (fwd) -Reply -Reply



I don't have a copy with me, but I know _City Paper_ is on line.

Unfortunately, I don't have web access here at work, but I'll pick up

a hard copy of CP at lunch and post the address of the web site. It

was an interview by a.d. amorosi, by the way--did he make it up,

Jesse?



Molly



    Jesse T Sheidlower  jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PANIX.COM  1/2/96, 10:14am    

Molly Dickmeyer wrote:

  PS--Enjoyed the "20 Questions" feature on Jesse Sheidlower in the

  Philadelphia free weekly _City Paper_ last month!



Uhhh--Any chance you could post the column for the benefit of those

of us who haven't seen it?



Jesse Sheidlower

Random House Reference

 jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]panix.com 



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 2 Jan 1996 09:42:39 CST

From:  Joan Hall  jdhall[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU 

Subject: Re: Frontier Doctors (fwd)



The weight used to keep the horse from straying was called a hitching weight

(with variants hitching ball, hitching block, hitching iron, and hitch

weight). See DARE Vol II for quotes.



Joan Hall



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 2 Jan 1996 10:10:59 -0600

From:  "Kathleen M. O'Neill"  koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UIC.EDU 

Subject: Re: And The Winners Are...



 What we seem to be lacking is a 'tunology', right between phonology and

 morphology (SUPRA-segmentals?), that can adequately encompass everything

 from tone to stress with in a system in which 'tunes' are primary, and

 manifested in different ways within different languages.



Your discussion on tune reminded me of

my experiences with tone in phonology classes.



Having studied music, and being proficient on

about a dozen instruments, I thought myself

somewhat at an advantage when we began doing

tonetic transcriptions. Was I ever amazed to

see how often I was wrong in my transcriptions!

I don't know how it is best explained, but

there is surely some tune/tone distinction

to my ear.



;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

;Kathleen M. O'Neill ... Language Laboratory Technician I  ;

;koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uic.edu ... u55354[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uicvm.cc.uic.edu        ;

;:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::;

;University of Illinois at Chicago ... Language Laboratory ;

;703 South Morgan Street (M/C 042) ... Grant Hall, Room 311 ;

;Chicago, IL 60607-7025                  ;

;312.996.8838 or 8836 ... 312.996.5501 FAX        ;

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 2 Jan 1996 10:14:39 -0600

From:  "Kathleen M. O'Neill"  koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UIC.EDU 

Subject: Re: New Joiner Here



 One comment here. "dis" derives from "disrespect."



Does anyone know of any writings on the evolution

of this word? I've heard mention of someone

tracing the word "disrespect" from noun only

(as in, to show disrespect to s.o.) to its use as

a verb, followed by its recent abbreviation to "dis."



;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

;Kathleen M. O'Neill ... Language Laboratory Technician I  ;

;koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uic.edu ... u55354[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uicvm.cc.uic.edu        ;

;:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::;

;University of Illinois at Chicago ... Language Laboratory ;

;703 South Morgan Street (M/C 042) ... Grant Hall, Room 311 ;

;Chicago, IL 60607-7025                  ;

;312.996.8838 or 8836 ... 312.996.5501 FAX        ;

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 2 Jan 1996 08:15:54 -0800

From:  Allen Maberry  maberry[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]U.WASHINGTON.EDU 

Subject: Re: Gumbo file'



I believe I read in a cookbook somewhere that file powder is never added

to gumbo while it is boiling nor is the gumbo returned to the boil after

the file has been added, or else it will become "stringy". Not being

much of a gumbo maker myself, is this in fact true?

Allen

maberry[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]u.washington.edu

On Tue, 2 Jan 1996, Jesse T Sheidlower wrote:



    The dictionaries I have at home (Webster's Collegiate 1973, OED 1 with

    supplement, Longman Dict. of Contemporary English) don't list

    file' (the ingredient of gumbo, made of sassafras root if I'm not

    mistaken). Nor does the Nouveau Petit Larousse Illustre'. What

    is its etymology? Is it a French loan in English?

 

  According to the Random House Webster's College Dictionary:

     LaF; lit., twisted, ropy, stringy (perh. orig. applied to

   dishes thickened with the powder, ptp. of F _filer_; see

   FILE (which is taken back to OF 'to wind or spin thread',

   with Latin roots appropriately given)

 

  The other current college dictionaries give similar origins.

 

  And it's made from the leaves, not the root, of sassafras, BTW.

 

  Jesse Sheidlower

  Random House Reference

   jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]panix.com 

 



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 2 Jan 1996 08:22:59 -0800

From:  Allen Maberry  maberry[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]U.WASHINGTON.EDU 

Subject: Re: Frontier Doctors (fwd) -Reply



Since you asked--

I and I'm sure several others replied. My message was:



The item in question was called a hitching weight. Cf.,

"hitching weight--a weight which, placed on the ground and attached by

a strap to the horse's bit, keeps the animal from going away. Used on

buggy horses or wagon teams only."

Adams, "Western Words", University of Oklahomah Press, 1968, p. 148

Similar definition in "Dictionary of Americanisms"



Allen

maberry[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]u.washington.edu



On Tue, 2 Jan 1996, Molly Dickmeyer wrote:



  Dan Goodman et al:

 

  Has anyone answered privately to your inquiry about the weight

  frontier docs used to "anchor" their horses? I'm interested in this

  one also.

 

  Molly Dickmeyer

  dickmeye[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]phl.lrpub.com

 

  PS--Enjoyed the "20 Questions" feature on Jesse Sheidlower in the

  Philadelphia free weekly _City Paper_ last month!

 



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 2 Jan 1996 11:44:37 -0500

From:  Jesse T Sheidlower  jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PANIX.COM 

Subject: Re: Frontier Doctors (fwd) -Reply -Reply



 

  I don't have a copy with me, but I know _City Paper_ is on line.

  Unfortunately, I don't have web access here at work, but I'll pick up

  a hard copy of CP at lunch and post the address of the web site. It

  was an interview by a.d. amorosi, by the way--did he make it up,

  Jesse?

 

  Molly



It seems to be http://www.citypaper.com, but I wasn't able to find

a copy of this interview there--they only have this week's cover

story, unless I'm missing a link somewhere.



The interview really happened, but I have no idea what I said, or

how it got written up. It's probably not a total invention, though.



JTS



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 2 Jan 1996 09:44:00 -0800

From:  "[Deborah Bader]"  DHBader[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]EWORLD.COM 

Subject: Re: Gumbo file'



According to Webster's Third New Interntional Dictionary, file' is considered

American French (out of Louisiana) and derives from the French past

participle of filer, to twist, spin. Its definitin is "powdered young leaves

of sassafrass used to thicken soups or stews." Hope this helps.



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 2 Jan 1996 14:38:39 -0500

From:  Benjamin Barrett  Gogaku[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GNN.COM 

Subject: Re: New Joiner Here



 Date:     Tue, 2 Jan 1996 11:45:51 +0800

 From: Russ McClay  mcclay[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PROQC.COM.TW 

 Sender:    American Dialect Society  ADS-L[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UGA.CC.UGA.EDU 

[snip]

 Finally, living overseas makes keeping up on all the current expressions

 difficult. One that piqued my interest a year or two ago is "dis" /

  "dissed".

 [snip]



I can remember hearing "dis" as a short form of "disrespect" in high school,

about 12 years ago (Seattle). I think it ran epedemic, totally replacing

the then common verb "dog."



yoroshiku

Benjamin Barrett



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 2 Jan 1996 16:30:25 -0500

From:  "Dennis R. Preston"  preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PILOT.MSU.EDU 

Subject: Re: "False Faces"



Natalie,

Me too, me too (Louisville, 1940's).

Dennis





 I was interested in Luanne's brief mention of "false faces" in Chicago

 since I had forgotten that term, even though it was what we always called

 Halloween masks when I was little. Do any of the rest of you remember

 using that term?

   --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



Dennis R. Preston

Department of Linguistics and Languages

Michigan State University

preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]pilot.msu.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 2 Jan 1996 16:33:33 -0500

From:  "Dennis R. Preston"  preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PILOT.MSU.EDU 

Subject: Re: Gumbo file'



Yes, Bethany, but leaf not root. Roots are for tea; leaves are for file.

Dennis



 I don't know its etymology, but it does consist of ground sassafras.

 

 Bethany



Dennis R. Preston

Department of Linguistics and Languages

Michigan State University

preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]pilot.msu.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 2 Jan 1996 16:37:16 -0500

From:  "Dennis R. Preston"  preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PILOT.MSU.EDU 

Subject: Re: newcomer's warsh



   Date:  Tue, 2 Jan 1996 11:45:51 +0800

   From:  Russ McClay  mcclay[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PROQC.COM.TW 

   Subject: New Joiner Here

  

   Just a note letting everyone know a new list member has appeared: me.

.......

   A word I've nearly always mispronounced (probably not the right term)

   is wash. I pronounce it: warsh, the r sound very soft. (Sorry not

   familiar with the codes. And wouldn't know how to use them if I were.)

  



Finally somebody else on the list that can talk good like me! Welcome Hoosier!

You can warsh your fucking socks at my house any month they get dirty

enough to need it.



Dennis







Dennis R. Preston

Department of Linguistics and Languages

Michigan State University

preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]pilot.msu.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 2 Jan 1996 16:42:12 -0500

From:  "Dennis R. Preston"  preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PILOT.MSU.EDU 

Subject: Re: Gumbo file'



You are right on. Do not add file to boiling gumbo.

Dennis



 I believe I read in a cookbook somewhere that file powder is never added

 to gumbo while it is boiling nor is the gumbo returned to the boil after

 the file has been added, or else it will become "stringy". Not being

 much of a gumbo maker myself, is this in fact true?

 Allen



  



Dennis R. Preston

Department of Linguistics and Languages

Michigan State University

preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]pilot.msu.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 2 Jan 1996 16:10:26 -0800

From:  Peter McGraw  pmcgraw[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CALVIN.LINFIELD.EDU 

Subject: Re: "False Faces"



I always called them "masks," as did all my childhood playmates in La

Jolla, CA, in the late 40s and early 50s - except for one who called them

"false faces." Unfortunately, I don't know what part of the country his

parents came from.



Peter McGraw

Linfield College

McMinnville, OR



On Tue, 2 Jan 1996, Dennis R. Preston wrote:



  Natalie,

  Me too, me too (Louisville, 1940's).

  Dennis

 

 

   I was interested in Luanne's brief mention of "false faces" in Chicago

   since I had forgotten that term, even though it was what we always called

   Halloween masks when I was little. Do any of the rest of you remember

   using that term?

     --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)

 

  Dennis R. Preston

  Department of Linguistics and Languages

  Michigan State University

  preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]pilot.msu.edu

 



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 2 Jan 1996 19:26:26 -0400

From:  "Bethany Dumas, UTK"  DUMASB[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Re: Gumbo file'



Yes, it's true -- file is added by individuals after they have been served --

anywhere I have ever cooked/eaten it.



Bethany



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 2 Jan 1996 19:28:53 -0400

From:  "Bethany Dumas, UTK"  DUMASB[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Re: Gumbo file'



Right, Dennis --ground sassafras LEAVES.



Bethany



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 1 Jan 1996 to 2 Jan 1996

**********************************************





There are 21 messages totalling 438 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. dis

 2. Can I hear what you're saying? (2)

 3. Many excellent responses...Good to Be Here

 4. the file' file

 5. cyberia

 6. "False Faces"

 7. cyberia -Reply

 8. Sound change in progress or A New York Moment (2)

 9. new word? (3)

 10. aspiration

 11. Language in the Judicial Process (http://hamlet.la.utk.edu)

 12. And The Winners Are... (4)

 13. ser(i)o-discordant

 14. Nominee: 1996 WOTY



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 3 Jan 1996 05:58:39 -0500

From:  SETH SKLAREY  crissiet[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IPOF.FLA.NET 

Subject: Re: dis



 Russ McClay wrote:



 Finally, living overseas makes keeping up on all the current expressions

 difficult. One that piqued my interest a year or two ago is "dis" / "dissed".





"dis" is short for disrespect



Welcome to the list.



Seth Sklarey

Wittgenstein School of the Unwritten Word

Coconut Grove, FL

crissiet[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ipof.fla.net



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 3 Jan 1996 06:13:30 -0500

From:  SETH SKLAREY  crissiet[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IPOF.FLA.NET 

Subject: Re: Can I hear what you're saying?



Wow! Wouldn't it be great if we could add sound to this list.The audio could

be added to a WWW site, or perhaps could be send via E-mail as a compressed

HTML file.



Just a thought. Are there any techies out there who could help?



SETH SKLAREY

Wittgenstein School of the Unwritten Word

Coconut Grove, FL

crissiet[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ipof.fla.net

----------------------------------------------------



Kate O'Neill wrote:



  What we seem to be lacking is a 'tunology', right between phonology and

  morphology (SUPRA-segmentals?), that can adequately encompass everything

  from tone to stress with in a system in which 'tunes' are primary, and

  manifested in different ways within different languages.

 

 Your discussion on tune reminded me of

 my experiences with tone in phonology classes.

 

 Having studied music, and being proficient on

 about a dozen instruments, I thought myself

 somewhat at an advantage when we began doing

 tonetic transcriptions. Was I ever amazed to

 see how often I was wrong in my transcriptions!

 I don't know how it is best explained, but

 there is surely some tune/tone distinction

 to my ear.

 

 ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

 ;Kathleen M. O'Neill ... Language Laboratory Technician I  ;

 ;koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uic.edu ... u55354[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uicvm.cc.uic.edu        ;

 ;:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::;

 ;University of Illinois at Chicago ... Language Laboratory ;

 ;703 South Morgan Street (M/C 042) ... Grant Hall, Room 311 ;

 ;Chicago, IL 60607-7025                  ;

 ;312.996.8838 or 8836 ... 312.996.5501 FAX        ;

 ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

 

 



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 3 Jan 1996 19:24:44 +0800

From:  Russ McClay  mcclay[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PROQC.COM.TW 

Subject: Many excellent responses...Good to Be Here



Thanks to all who have responded to my initial post so far.



I'm very happy to have found this list/group and feel very

welcome. Hope I can contribute a few things along the way.



Russ

Taipei

--

m c c l a y

...................................................................

                        mcclay[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]proqc.com.tw

                   http://www.proqc.com/~mcclay/



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 3 Jan 1996 09:11:42 +0000

From:  "E. W. Gilman"  egilman[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]M-W.COM 

Subject: the file' file



I have lost the name of whoever had the 20-year-old dictionary and

could not find file'. It is entered in the 10th edition of our

Collegiate, complete with etymology.



EWGilman



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 3 Jan 1996 08:02:02 -0500

From:  SETH SKLAREY  crissiet[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IPOF.FLA.NET 

Subject: Re: cyberia



I came upon an interesting word: cyberia

it was developed by Dr. Timothy Leary in an interesting discourse on

evolution which begins at



http://leary.com/archives/text/published/cyberculture/page-1.html



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 3 Jan 1996 07:44:30 -0600

From:  LAWRENCE DAVIS  DAVIS[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]WSUHUB.UC.TWSU.EDU 

Subject: Re: "False Faces"



Natalie,



Me too--southern Ohio (Xenia) in the 1940s and 50s.



Larry



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 3 Jan 1996 09:51:14 -0500

From:  Molly Dickmeyer  dickmeye[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JBLSMTP.PHL.LRPUB.COM 

Subject: Re: cyberia -Reply



I like "cyberia"!



Reading the _Phila. Inquirer,_ Tues, 1/2/96, pp C10, and came accross

a WOTY for '96:



"...Chard-Herring speculates that newspaper, magazine, and television

reports about David Saltzman's brave battle against cancer have had

an `Oprahfying' effect on the book, accelerating sales."



Let's see if it catches on.



Happy New Year, to those of you that celebrate it now.



Molly

dickmeye[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]phl.lrpub.com







    SETH SKLAREY  crissiet[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IPOF.FLA.NET  1/3/96, 08:02am    

I came upon an interesting word: cyberia it was developed by Dr.

Timothy Leary in an interesting discourse on evolution which begins

at



http://leary.com/archives/text/published/cyberculture/page-1.html



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 3 Jan 1996 10:50:12 -0500

From:  ALICE FABER  faber[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HASKINS.YALE.EDU 

Subject: Sound change in progress or A New York Moment



An interesting tidbit from this morning's New York Times. Every Wednesday,

they publish a column called Metropolitan Diary, which contains readers'

reports of (purported) quintessential New York Moments, overheard

conversational gems, and the like. (I say purported, because they once

published as 'true' cute kid story something that my mother had heard as a

joke in New Mexico.) Herewith the last item from today's column:

    Dear Diary:

        Searching through the maze of Bloomingdale's with a friend

    who had to find socks to go with the shoes she had just bought, I

    stopped in front of a young clerk handing out store guides. The

    following conversation occurred.

    Me: Excuse me, where are socks?

    Guide: They're at 50th and Fifth.

    Me, puzzled: Socks?

    Guide, insistent: Yes, 50th and Fifth Avenue.

    I asked the next guide where I could find hosiery.



Decoding for non-New Yorkers: Bloomingdales is on Lexington Avenue, at or near

59th St. Saks Fifth Avenue is indeed on Fifth Avenue, at 50th St. I assume

that most ADS-Lers know the socioeconomics of Saks; Bloomingdales is similar

economically, but a bit trendier (for instance, it has a nickname,

Bloomies...)



Alice Faber

faber[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]haskins.yale.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 3 Jan 1996 10:56:17 EST

From:  mai  MAINGR01[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UKCC.UKY.EDU 

Subject: new word?



I have recently heard a word I presume to be Black English, though

reported by a white. Does anyone know the derivation/etymology

or even the meaning of the following : huji/hoojie? It is supposed

to refer to whites.

I hope this is an appropriate place to pose this question. I was told

that this word caused great offense when used, so it might be a future

non-pc word in the making! If this turns out to be a taboo usage, please

warn me!



Mark Ingram, sorta politically confused anyhow

maingr01[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ukcc.uky.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 3 Jan 1996 08:33:39 PST

From:  "//www.usa.net/~ague"  ague[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]REDRCK.ENET.DEC.COM 

Subject: aspiration



Having just read a little about Irish Gaelic, and seeing how many consonants

are aspirated in the language, leads me to wonder how the English "ph" sound

should really be pronounced.



Should it really be formed like the "f", or is it different? If today "f" and

"ph" are formed the same, was there a time when they had two differents sounds?



For me, both the "f" and "ph" are formed with upper front teeth on lower lip,

mouth slightly open. But I can imagine the true "ph" having the upper lip

playing the role of the upper teeth. Much like aspirating the "p" sound.



-- Jim



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 3 Jan 1996 11:56:12 -0500

From:  Jesse T Sheidlower  jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PANIX.COM 

Subject: Re: new word?



  I have recently heard a word I presume to be Black English, though

  reported by a white. Does anyone know the derivation/etymology

  or even the meaning of the following : huji/hoojie? It is supposed

  to refer to whites.



This is a Black E variant of _hoosier._ The earliest example I

know of is from ca1970 in DARE s.v. hoosier 1.b., showing this

pronunciation phonetically. We have scattered examples since

then. Note that C. Major in _Juba to Jive_ suggests dates of

1940s-60s, and while this is not improbable, Major is extremely

unreliable for this sort of thing. It does mean 'white person',

and the evidence shows contemptuous use.



Jesse Sheidlower

Random House Reference

 jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]panix.com 



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 3 Jan 1996 12:25:24 EST

From:  mai  MAINGR01[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UKCC.UKY.EDU 

Subject: Re: new word?



            Does anyone know the derivation/etymology

   or even the meaning of the following : huji/hoojie? It is supposed

   to refer to whites.

 

 This is a Black E variant of _hoosier._ The earliest example I

 know of is from ca1970 in DARE s.v. hoosier 1.b., showing this

 pronunciation phonetically.

 Jesse Sheidlower

 Random House Reference

  jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]panix.com 





Thank you for your rapid response. I am amazed at the answer! Thanks again.



Mark Ingram

maingr01[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ukcc.uky.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 3 Jan 1996 13:19:50 -0400

From:  "Bethany Dumas, UTK"  DUMASB[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.BITNET 

Subject: Language in the Judicial Process (http://hamlet.la.utk.edu)



Issue 3 of the World Wide Web newsletter of language and law,

Language in the Judicial Process (http://hamlet.la.utk.edu), will be

published this month. You are invited to submit the following items

for inclusion in that issue:



1. Bibliographic citations & abstracts (including conference papers).



2. Citations of legal opinions.



3. Conference programs.



4. Other appropriate items.



All such items should be sent to the Editor, Bethany Dumas

 dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu  (see mailing address below).



Additionally, publishers are invited to send books for review (see

mailing address below).



Also, I am pleased to announce that text-only versions of Issues 1

(July 1995) and 2 (October 1995) of Language in the Judicial

Process are now available via email. Issues 3 (January 1996) and 4

(April 1996) will also be available as text-only versions available via

email.



To automatically receive text-only copies of Issues 1-4 via email,

send your name and email address to the Technical Editor:



David Hale  dhale[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu 

URL:http://www.utcc.utk.edu

UTK Computing & Administrative Systems

Training & Documentation Services

400 Dunford Hall

University of Tennessee

Knoxville, Tennessee 37996 USA

VOICE: (615) 974-1322





Send all other items to me:



Bethany K. Dumas  dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu ,

Department of English

University of Tennessee

Knoxville, TN 37996-0430

VOICE: 615-974-6965

FAX: 615-974-6926



Bethany Dumas



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 3 Jan 1996 12:39:02 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: And The Winners Are...



Happy New Year, everyone!

    I guess I'm out of the loop (Chicago), but I haven't run into

"going postal". A la De Baron, are we going to provide glosses for the

masses (and Rip Van W's like this one)? Surely everyone's not totalled AOLed.

    Rudy



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 3 Jan 1996 15:26:35 EST

From:  Beth Lee Simon  simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU 

Subject: Re: And The Winners Are...



Did I miss the citations or "I've heard it" attestations for "going postal".

Who has it, or where? When?



beth



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 3 Jan 1996 15:29:39 EST

From:  Beth Lee Simon  simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU 

Subject: ser(i)o-discordant



Yes, I think I've inserted the "i" in sero. I first read it in

the Village Voice, in a long piece on the pandemic, and I think I

just conflated sero with serial (as in serial killer).



beth simon



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 3 Jan 1996 15:45:34 EST

From:  Beth Lee Simon  simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Sound change in progress or A New York Moment



Alice,

This reads like an update of Labv's dept. store survey, complete

with eliciting the feature twice.



beth



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 3 Jan 1996 23:59:52 GMT

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Can I hear what you're saying?



  Wow! Wouldn't it be great if we could add sound to this list.The audio could

  be added to a WWW site, or perhaps could be send via E-mail as a compressed

  HTML file.



If anybody wants to send me a sound file, I'll be happy to put it on the

ADS web pages. You can either e-mail it to me uuencoded or ftp it (remember

to specify binary) to ftp.msstate.edu/incoming/words-l -- and let me know

it's there since I don't check that directory unless I'm expecting something.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 4 Jan 1996 00:03:11 GMT

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: And The Winners Are...



  Did I miss the citations or "I've heard it" attestations for "going postal".

  Who has it, or where? When?



I can't remember when I first started hearing it -- a year or so ago, I

guess. I do remember that the first person I heard use it lives in

Richland, Washington, but I've heard it in Mississippi also.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 4 Jan 1996 00:04:18 GMT

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: And The Winners Are...



      I guess I'm out of the loop (Chicago), but I haven't run into



You weren't in the loop, Rudy, but you were talked about. ;-)

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 3 Jan 1996 19:11:02 -0400

From:  "Bethany Dumas, UTK"  DUMASB[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Nominee: 1996 WOTY



from another list:



 From the Oakland Tribune business section, Sunday 12/31/95. Page D-1, column

1 - the Money TALKS column.



"Can you say outsourcing?



If you're not outsourcing, you're not part of the "in" crowd. Outsourcing,

the term for sending a business function to an outside firm, seems to be

getting as trendy as the Internet, according to a year-long international

study by Arthur Andersen and The Economist Intelligence Unit. The study

finds that 93 percent of the corporations surveyed plan to outsource in the

next three years and the nine out of ten who now outsource are satisfied with

the results. The study was based on interviews with 50 global organizations

plus a survey of 303 senior executives throughout North American and Europe."



Bethany



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 2 Jan 1996 to 3 Jan 1996

**********************************************





There are 26 messages totalling 725 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. new word? (2)

 2. Nominee: 1996 WOTY (3)

 3. greetings

 4. NYC socks vs. Saks (2)

 5. Today's Lex

 6. And The Winners Are... (2)

 7. ser(i)o-discordant

 8. Respelling (5)

 9. Can I hear what you're saying?

 10. dynamic (p. un-c.)

 11. common ground?

 12. WOTY press release (2)

 13. Bounced Mail

 14. Seeking Help with Graphics

 15. Sound change in progress or A New York Moment

 16. IT in place of THAT



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 4 Jan 1996 06:35:48 -0500

From:  SETH SKLAREY  crissiet[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IPOF.FLA.NET 

Subject: Re: new word?



 I have recently heard a word I presume to be Black English, though

 reported by a white. Does anyone know the derivation/etymology

 or even the meaning of the following : huji/hoojie? It is supposed

 to refer to whites.

 I hope this is an appropriate place to pose this question. I was told

 that this word caused great offense when used, so it might be a future

 non-pc word in the making! If this turns out to be a taboo usage, please

 warn me!

 

 Mark Ingram, sorta politically confused anyhow

 maingr01[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ukcc.uky.edu

 

I have heard it as short for whojamathing (something like whatwhamacallit),

but not

in the context to which you are referring. What is the context or sentence

in which it was used?



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 4 Jan 1996 09:06:37 -0500

From:  Jesse T Sheidlower  jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PANIX.COM 

Subject: Re: Nominee: 1996 WOTY



[article about "outsourcing" deleted]



Great word, agreed, but ineligible for WOTY, since it's already

included in all four college dictionaries.



Jesse Sheidlower

Random House Reference

 jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]panix.com 



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 4 Jan 1996 10:30:05 -0500

From:  "Dale F.Coye"  CoyeCFAT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: greetings



Thanks to Allan Metcalf for telling me how to subscribe to this group. It

was nice to meet so many of you at the annual meeting in Chicago after

reading about your work for years.  I especially appreciated Miklos Kontra's

insightful comparison of minority Hungarians in Slovakia with non-immigrant

Spanish-speakers in the Southwestern US. It makes you wonder if we shouldn't

insist that in those areas where non-English speakers are native, and this

would also include Pennsylvania Germans, Cajuns, and native-Americans on

their reservations, the federal government should guarantee, on demand from

the community, that instruction take place in both English and the other

native language.



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 4 Jan 1996 10:30:04 -0500

From:  "Dale F.Coye"  CoyeCFAT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Re: NYC socks vs. Saks



About the NY Times quote on the socks-Saks confusion at Bloomingdales...



The sound change referred to here has been going on for a while and

illustrates the collision of two dialects. I've been observing a lowering of

the vowel of SACK in the Northeast, especially among upper and middle class

students for 20 years. This lowering puts it down in the lower-left corner

of the traditional vowel chart. I've heard this from prep school kids all

over New England and as far South as DC. It's also especially noticeable in

younger speakers of Brit. Eng. where it gets so low it sounds like the

traditional Scots vowel in SACK.

  At the same time the Great Lakes region, including much of Upstate New

York has as its salient features the raising of the vowel of SACK, and also

of the vowel in SOCK.  Non-linguists call this the FLAT A of Chicagoans and

Central New Yorkers. When the vowel of SOCK (and this includes a huge number

of words) is fronted it also ends up in that lower-left corner of the vowel

chart, creating a situation perfect for the confusion reported here.

 Great-Lakes SOLID sounds exactly like Prep School SALAD. At college over 20

years ago I remember a guy from Saratoga talking to one of his black friends

from NYC. At one point he referred to some cement BLOCKS propping open his

door, using the fronted vowel. The black friend got somewhat peeved, and

said "Did you call them BLACKS, they're BLOCKS, man, please!" Which created

great consternation and puzzlement among the group.

  The raised Great-Lakes vowel of SACK does not collide with the next vowel

in the standard chart, the vowel of HECK, because the latter is centralized

and lax, while SACK is tense, though they're about equal in height. This

means that, unfortunately, there will be no confusion of SAKS and SEX. It

would have livened things up in Saks.



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 4 Jan 1996 11:03:40 -0400

From:  "Bethany Dumas, UTK"  DUMASB[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Re: Nominee: 1996 WOTY



Thanks for your update, Jesse, re "outsourcing" being in "all four

college dictionaries."



I did not know that there was a WOTY rule about dictionaries. Are there

other rules? Should I already know them? How do I remedy my deficiency?



I ask, partly because it seems to me that last year some WOTYs were

words that had been around for a long time (though, of course, not

necessarily in dictionaries).



Bethany



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 4 Jan 1996 12:05:03 -0400

From:  Barnhart  Barnhart[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HIGHLANDS.COM 

Subject: Today's Lex



Born January 4, 1785: Jakob Ludwig Karl Grimm. German philologist and writer.

 After 1815 he worked together with his brother, Wilhelm Karl Grimm, on the

great Deutsches Worterbuch. This is the fundamental work in comparative

German philology, of which specific branch he may be called the founder. Its

principal terminology originated with him, and one of its most characteristic

phrases, though first formulated by Rask, bears the name of Grimm's law.



This is the FIRST posting of "People of LEX," a calendar of Lexicography and

Lexicographers, copyright: Lexik House Publishers.



STAY TUNED FOR MORE LISTINGS!



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 4 Jan 1996 09:03:05 -0800

From:  Dan Moonhawk Alford  dalford[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]S1.CSUHAYWARD.EDU 

Subject: Re: And The Winners Are...



Gosh. I've been using 'going postal' out here in California for about a

year and a half in my Intro classes. Fortunately (or not) I haven't been

made aware that I had any postal employees in my classes. Of course, it

would have been interesting to find out how postal employees feel about

the phrase, which kinda labels the whole barrel for a few bad apples who

bring a gun to work and go berserk. Almost all of my students in each

class had heard the phrase before when I mentioned it.



On Wed, 3 Jan 1996, Beth Lee Simon wrote:



  Did I miss the citations or "I've heard it" attestations for "going postal".

  Who has it, or where? When?

 

  beth

 



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 4 Jan 1996 09:04:17 -0800

From:  Dan Moonhawk Alford  dalford[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]S1.CSUHAYWARD.EDU 

Subject: Re: ser(i)o-discordant



or perhaps serio-comic! I've heard/seen that but I know not where.



On Wed, 3 Jan 1996, Beth Lee Simon wrote:



  Yes, I think I've inserted the "i" in sero. I first read it in

  the Village Voice, in a long piece on the pandemic, and I think I

  just conflated sero with serial (as in serial killer).

 

  beth simon

 



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 4 Jan 1996 12:24:27 -0500

From:  Jesse T Sheidlower  jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PANIX.COM 

Subject: Re: Nominee: 1996 WOTY



 

  Thanks for your update, Jesse, re "outsourcing" being in "all four

  college dictionaries."

 

  I did not know that there was a WOTY rule about dictionaries. Are there

  other rules? Should I already know them? How do I remedy my deficiency?

 

  I ask, partly because it seems to me that last year some WOTYs were

  words that had been around for a long time (though, of course, not

  necessarily in dictionaries).



John Algeo can correct me, but I think the rule is just that words

that are already in those dictionaries used by ANW are not eligible.

The word must be new _or_ newly prominent; the actual age is not necessarily

relevant (e.g. 1992's WOTY, _not!_ attested regularly since 1900).

(This has gone back and forth a number of times;

it used by "New WOTY," but we just dropped the "New.")



Re "outsource," I should point out that the definitions in

most of the dictionaries are somewhat inaccurate; I think three

of them only have the verbal noun, and several of them specify

"a nonunion or foreign supplier" rather than simply anything

done outside the company. No doubt the other three guys will revise

their entries, as we are doing.



Jesse Sheidlower

Random House Reference

 jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]panix.com 



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 4 Jan 1996 12:49:44 EST

From:  mai  MAINGR01[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UKCC.UKY.EDU 

Subject: Re: new word?



  I have recently heard a word I presume to be Black English, though

  reported by a white. Does anyone know the derivation/etymology

  or even the meaning of the following : huji/hoojie? It is supposed

  to refer to whites.



 I have heard it as short for whojamathing (something like whatwhamacallit),

 but not

 in the context to which you are referring. What is the context or sentence

 in which it was used?



Uh, it's mildly offensive, but someone wearing a Confederate cap said the

following to a brother of an NFL football player,



"Have a very hoojie Christmas"



Said brother threw the hat in the fire and threw the wellwisher through

a window. Because of this I presume he took offense! :-)

This is a term I did not know and except for the response on this list,

no one I've asked had a clue. I think I need a list of words not to say.

The only trouble is it seems new ones are being invented all the time!



Mark Ingram

maingr01[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ukcc.uky.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 4 Jan 1996 13:01:00 EST

From:  Electronic Products Magazine  0004276021[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MCIMAIL.COM 

Subject: Respelling



A colleague points out that long-standing spellings in the English lanuage are being changed, and he is wondering what's up. The examples

he gave are :

Neanderthal becoming Neandertal so it is pronounced like German

and

Inca becoming Inka for no apparent reason.



Leonard Schiefer            lschiefer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mcimail.com

Chief Copy Editor

Electronic Products Magazine

Garden City, NY



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 4 Jan 1996 13:12:15 EST

From:  Undetermined origin c/o LISTSERV maintainer

      owner-LISTSERV[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UGA.CC.UGA.EDU 

Subject: Re: And The Winners Are...



A co-worker of mine mentioned last week that he'd heard a new and

interesting phrase: it turned out to be "going postal," which I'd

heard before (but don't offhand remember where). But that does

suggest that people are thinking of it as something new.



Vicki Rosenzweig

vr%acmcr.uucp[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]murphy.com | rosenzweig[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]acm.org

New York, NY



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 4 Jan 1996 13:48:11 EST

From:  Undetermined origin c/o LISTSERV maintainer

      owner-LISTSERV[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UGA.CC.UGA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Respelling



I think this respelling is going on mostly in archeological contexts

(certainly, "Inca" isn't a term that is used often outside history

or archeology, except in Peru, where it's part of national history and

pride, and the brand name of a popular soft drink), and you might do

best to ask someone working in that field.



I will note that something similar happens with transliterations (for

example, "Mahomet" has become "Mohammed" or "Muhammed"), with the

apparent goal being to get closer to how the word or name is pronounced

in the original language/alphabet. It's complicated, of course, by

the diversity of pronunciations for a given spelling--both Arabic and

English have enough dialects that a standard transliteration from one

to the other will always be somewhat arbitrary.



Vicki Rosenzweig

vr%acmcr.uucp[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]murphy.com | rosenzweig[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]acm.org

New York, NY



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 4 Jan 1996 11:38:57 -0800

From:  David Harnick-Shapiro  david[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SYNECDOCHE.ICS.UCI.EDU 

Subject: Re: Can I hear what you're saying?



On Wed, 3 Jan 1996 23:59, Natalie Maynor writes:



   Wow! Wouldn't it be great if we could add sound to this list.The audio could

   be added to a WWW site, or perhaps could be send via E-mail as a compressed

   HTML file.

  

   Just a thought. Are there any techies out there who could help?

 

  If anybody wants to send me a sound file, I'll be happy to put it on the

  ADS web pages. You can either e-mail it to me uuencoded or ftp it (remember

  to specify binary) to ftp.msstate.edu/incoming/words-l -- and let me know

  it's there since I don't check that directory unless I'm expecting something.



As one of the techies, I'll point out that there is an Internet standard

for including things like sound files in email messages; it's called MIME.

(As to what kind of sound file should be included this way, there is less

agreement. A number of the PC mail programs have their own way of

including files, too, but this way madness lies.)



Having established that it *can* be done, should it be? I'd say that

within the society of this list, there's a strong antipathy toward large

messages (and audio files will be largish); for now, at least, I'd

think that Natalie's offer to make such files available via ftp and/or

the Web is the way to go.



--------

      David Harnick-Shapiro   Internet: david[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ics.uci.edu

Information and Computer Science   UUCP: ...!{ucbvax,zardoz}!ucivax!david

University of California, Irvine



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 4 Jan 1996 15:41:14 -0500

From:  Allan Metcalf  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: dynamic (p. un-c.)



The Chronicle of Higher Education contributes to the search for words that

reveal sexist bias. This is from their daily on-line report of Jan. 3:



ALSO IN TODAY'S EDITION OF ACADEME TODAY



 2 NEW TOPICS IN COLLOQUY: Can only white men be "dynamic"

 professors, and is it discriminatory for colleges to list

 "dynamic" teaching ability as a qualification in job

 advertisements? Do university presses employ too few minority

 editors? You can debate the issues on Academe Today.



FYI, they explain:



You may visit Academe Today as follows:



   * via the World-Wide Web, at http://chronicle.com



   * by telnetting to chronicle.com and entering "chronicle"

    as the login and password.



- Allan Metcalf



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 4 Jan 1996 15:41:25 -0500

From:  Allan Metcalf  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: common ground?



I pass along this cryptic query that came to me. You could reply directly to

the inquirer, who as far as I know isn't on ADS-L. - Allan Metcalf



****************************



Origin of Common Ground. First English usage. Any help. Send JFK78[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 4 Jan 1996 15:41:32 -0500

From:  Allan Metcalf  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: WOTY press release



For media inquiries I'm using the following press release. You may find it of

interest because it lists all our WOTY choices since the game began in 1990.

(Suggestions for improvement will be welcome.) - Allan Metcalf



'WEB' AND 'NEWT' CHOSEN

AS WORDS OF THE YEAR 1995



In a tie vote at the American Dialect Society's annual meeting Dec. 29, both

"World Wide Web" and "newt" were chosen as Words of the Year 1995.



"World Wide Web," also known as "the Web," "WWW," "W3," refers to the newly

prominent resource on the Internet. "It seems to us to be clearly the most

important of these items and the one that will have the greatest future

impact on both language and society," stated John and Adele Algeo, conductors

of "Among the New Words" in the American Dialect Society quarterly journal

American Speech, when they placed "World Wide Web" in nomination.



"Newt," meaning to make aggressive changes as a newcomer, but also found in

combinations like "Newt World Order" and "Newtspeak," reflects the new

prominence of Newt Gingrich, speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives.

 "Newt" was nominated by David Barnhart, editor of the new-words quarterly

Barnhart Dictionary Companion.



Preceding the final vote on New Word of the Year, members and friends of the

American Dialect Society, meeting at the Summerfield Suites in downtown

Chicago, also chose these winners in six particular categories:

1. Most Useful: "E.Q." (for "Emotional Quotient"), the ability to manage

one's emotions, seen as a factor in achievement.

2. Most Unnecessary: "Vanna White shrimp," large shrimp for the restaurant

market.

3. Most Likely to Succeed: "World Wide Web" and its variants.

4. Most Original: "postal" or "go postal," to act irrationally, often

violently, from stress at work.

5. Most Outrageous: "starter marriage," a first marriage not expected to be

the last, akin to "starter home."

6. Most Euphemistic: "patriot," an old term used in the new sense of one who

believes in using force of arms if necessary to defend individual rights

against the government.



The American Dialect Society is the professional group for scholars who study

the English language in North America. Unlike other compilers of annual

lists, the Society neither condemns nor praises the words it chooses.

 Members simply seek to identify words that express the distinctive

preoccupations of the preceding year. The chosen words or phrases do not

have to be brand new, but they have to be newly prominent or distinctive.

 Discussion is far from solemn, because the words often reflect fads and

foibles of the past year.



This year's categories and nominees were determined by American Dialect

Society members and friends in an open meeting of the New Words Committee the

day before the final vote.



This is the sixth time the Society has voted on new words of the year.

 Previous choices:



1994 Word of the Year (tie): cyber, pertaining to computers and electronic

communication, and morph, to change form. Most Useful: gingrich, to deal

with government agencies, policies, and people in the manner of U.S. House

Speaker Newt Gingrich. Most Promising: Infobahn, the Internet. Most

Imaginative: guillermo, an e-mail message in a foreign language. Most

Euphemistic: challenged, indicating an undesirable or unappealing condition.

 Most Trendy: dress down day or casual day, a workday when employees are

allowed to dress casually. Most Beautiful: sylvanshine, night-time

iridescence of forest trees.



1993 Word of the Year: information superhighway, the national and

international network of computers.Most Useful: thing premodified by a noun,

e.g. "a Chicago thing." Most Unnecessary: mosaic culture to describe a

multicultural society. Most Likely to Succeed: quotative like with a form of

the verb be to indicate speech or thought. Most Outrageous: whirlpooling,

assault of a female by a male group in a swimming pool. Most Amazing:

cybersex, sexual stimulation by computer. Most Imaginative: McJob, a generic,

unstimulating, low-paying job. Most Euphemistic: street builder, a homeless

person who constructs a shanty. Most Unpronounceable: Jurassosaurus

nedegoapeferkimorum, a new dinosaur.



1992 Word of the Year: Not! expression of disagreement. Most Useful:

 grunge, a style of clothing. Most Unnecessary: gender feminism, belief

that sex roles are social, not biological. Most Outrageous: ethnic

cleansing, purging of ethnic minorities. Most Original: Franken-,

 genetically altered. Most Likely to Succeed: snail mail, s-mail, mail

that is physically delivered, as opposed to e-mail. Most Amazing:

 Munchhausen's syndrome by proxy, illness fabricated to evoke sympathy for

the caregiver.



1991 Word of the Year: mother of all -, greatest, most impressive. Most

Unnecessary: massively parallel, many small computers yoked together. Most

Successful: in your face, aggressive, confrontational, flamboyant. Most

Original: molecular pharming, pharming, genetically modifying farm animals

to produce human proteins for pharmaceutical use. Most Likely to Succeed:

 rollerblade, skate with rollers in a single row. Most Amazing: velcroid,

 a person who sticks by the (U.S.) president, especially for photo

opportunities.



1990 Word of the Year: bushlips, insincere political rhetoric. Most

Useful: technostupidity, loss of ability through dependence on machines,

and potty parity, equalization of toilet facilities for the sexes. Most

Unnecessary: peace dividend, anticipated saving in military spending due to

improved relations with the Soviet Union. Most Outrageous: politically

correct, PC, adhering to principles of left-wing social concern. Most

Original: voice merging, the oral tradition of African-American preachers

using another's words. Most Likely to Succeed: notebook PC, a portable

personal computer weighting 4-8 pounds, and rightsizing, adjusting the size

of a staff by laying off employees. Most Amazing: bungee jumping, jumping

from a high platform with elastic cables on the feet.

#   #   #

[Words of the Year 1996 will be chosen during the Society's next annual

meeting January 2-5, 1997 at the Sheraton Hotel in downtown Chicago. Media

representatives are welcome to attend. For further information contact

Executive Secretary Allan Metcalf.]



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 4 Jan 1996 14:03:37 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Respelling



The spelling  Neandertal  has been around a long time in arch(a)eological

writings. The  th  spelling in German represents a /t/ pronunciation, which

Americans are woefully ignorant of, and thus pronounce with /Theta/ as in

English. Dropping the  h  helps get rid of this inaccurate spelling-pronuncia-

tion. Thanks for bringing up this example -- it will be useful in teaching.

     Inka  was used in the title of a book published a couple of years

ago by University of Texas Press, which has probably infected others who have

read it. Spanish generally lacks the  k  grapheme, and various Latin American

Indian language speakers have from time to time adopted the letter in order

to visually distinguish their language from Spanish, in a sort of linguistic

nationalism. In turn, they have been attacked as tools of the CIA trying to

overthrow the established social order, which keeps the Indians in a permanent

serfdom. Sometimes North American linguists encourage the adoption of  k  and

 w  as "more phonemically accurate", without considering the sociolinguistic

and educational aspects (easing readers in a bilingual education program into

the reading of Spanish). It's a VERY complex issue.

    --Rudy Troike (rtroike[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccit.arizona.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 4 Jan 1996 22:08:15 GMT

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Bounced Mail



****************************************************************

 REMINDER: WHEN INCLUDING A PREVIOUS LIST POSTING IN SOMETHING

 YOU'RE SENDING TO THE LIST, BE SURE TO EDIT OUT ALL REFERENCES

 TO ADS-L IN THE HEADERS.

****************************************************************

  Date:     Thu, 4 Jan 1996 15:52:38 -0500

  Subject:   ADS-L: error report from GNN.COM

 

 The enclosed message, found in the ADS-L mailbox and shown under the spool ID

 8266 in the system log, has been identified as a possible delivery error notice

 for the following reason: "Sender:", "From:" or "Reply-To:" field pointing to

 the list has been found in mail body.

 

 ------------------ Message in error (59 lines) --------------------------

  Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 13:51:10

  From: Gogaku[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]gnn.com (Benjamin Barrett)

  Subject: Re: Respelling

 

   Date:        Thu, 4 Jan 1996 13:01:00 EST

   From:    Electronic Products Magazine  0004276021[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MCIMAIL.COM 

 

   A colleague points out that long-standing spellings in the English lanuage

    are being changed, and he is wondering what's up. The examples

   he gave are :

   Neanderthal becoming Neandertal so it is pronounced like German

   and

   Inca becoming Inka for no apparent reason.

   

   Leonard Schiefer            lschiefer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mcimail.com

   Chief Copy Editor

   Electronic Products Magazine

   Garden City, NY

 

  Date:     Thu, 4 Jan 1996 13:48:11 EST

  From: Undetermined origin c/o LISTSERV maintainer

 

  [snip]

   I will note that something similar happens with transliterations (for

   example, "Mahomet" has become "Mohammed" or "Muhammed"), with the

   apparent goal being to get closer to how the word or name is pronounced

   in the original language/alphabet. It's complicated, of course, by

   the diversity of pronunciations for a given spelling--both Arabic and

   English have enough dialects that a standard transliteration from one

   to the other will always be somewhat arbitrary.

 

  This is what happened with the revision of Chinese names to reflect the

  pinyin spelling system, too (Peking Beijing, etc). Inca Inka may be similar

  to the duplicity of Celtic & Keltic (though I doubt the b-ball team will

  ever change their spelling). Toukyou still remains Tokyo, though, Seattle

  still remains Seattle (rather than Sealth), Roma remains Rome, and doubtless

  many others will never change.

 

  yoroshiku

  Benjamin Barrett

 

  Vicki Rosenzweig

  vr%acmcr.uucp[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]murphy.com | rosenzweig[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]acm.org

  New York, NY

 



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 4 Jan 1996 20:01:23 -0500

From:  Benjamin Barrett  Gogaku[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GNN.COM 

Subject: Re: Respelling



 Date:     Thu, 4 Jan 1996 14:03:37 -0700

 From: Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

 Sender:    American Dialect Society  ADS-L[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UGA.CC.UGA.EDU 



 The spelling  Neandertal  has been around a long time in arch(a)eological

 writings. The  th  spelling in German represents a /t/ pronunciation, which

 Americans are woefully ignorant of, and thus pronounce with /Theta/ as in

 English. Dropping the  h  helps get rid of this inaccurate

  spelling-pronuncia-

 tion. Thanks for bringing up this example -- it will be useful in teaching.

[snip]



I was under the impression that it is lost to history as to whether the

Greeks of yore pronounced--or aspirated--the "h" in "theta" and "rho."



yoroshiku

Benjamin Barrett



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 4 Jan 1996 20:54:24 -0400

From:  "Bethany Dumas, UTK"  DUMASB[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.BITNET 

Subject: Seeking Help with Graphics



I am a graphics neophyte (possibly idiot). But, colleagues (esp. in

Liberal Arts Advising, Beverly!) are telling me that I should add graphics to

course flyers, etc.



I have acquired Aldus Superpaint for my Macintosh.



Now, what I think I need is a file of graphics appropriate for linguistics

course flyers, handouts, etc.



Can someone advise an appropriate source? Free or cheap would be nice.



Thanks,

Bethany



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 4 Jan 1996 20:06:07 -0500

From:  Dennis Baron  debaron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UIUC.EDU 

Subject: Re: WOTY press release



And my WOTY commentary appeared in the Chicago Tribune on 1/1/96 (op-ed page).



Dennis

--



Dennis Baron                    debaron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uiuc.edu

Department of English           office: 217-333-2392

University of Illinois              fax: 217-333-4321

608 S. Wright Street             home: 217-384-1683

Urbana, IL 61801



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 4 Jan 1996 20:10:52 -0700

From:  William King  WFKING[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Sound change in progress or A New York Moment



When I worked at the Metropolitan Museum, employees referred to the north

and south wings facing 5th Ave. by street number. "Take this up to 84th"

meant "take it to the north end." On one hand, this was insider lingo,

but on the other, it was practical because many people are simply terrible

at orientation to direction when inside a large building. The reason

everyone knows where the streets are is that the employees enter from

the wings or the front.

I am also new on this list and need to know where to send fees for joining

ADS. I tried an email address in the Journal, but wound up getting in

touch with someone else.

Bill King

SLAT Program

University of Arizona



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 4 Jan 1996 20:57:38 -0700

From:  William King  WFKING[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: NYC socks vs. Saks



    For upstate New Yorkers, both socks and Saks are raised, so the

two do not sound the same to native speaker.

    Not all of upstate NY has the same accent. The Buffalo accent is

decidedly closer to the Great Lakes than Albany, though the two are close.

The Champlain Valley and much of the Adirondacks have an accent that is

a composite of Western Vermont and Eastern Canada -- throw in some

Scotch/Scotch Irish of Appalachia for flavor and historical consistency.

My Albany area parents thought that the native of "Ti" were pronouncing

the shortened version of Ticonderoga as "Toy." Of course, the residents

could easily distinguish between "Ti" and "toy."

    The "flat a" of upstate New York becomes tensed for many Champlain

Valley speakers. My father, who was born in the Boston area, reverted to a

tensed ash after my mother died. Frankly, it wasn't until then that I

realized that the tensing of vowels existed in "Ti."

    This is subtle stuff and changeable either way. I'd like to add

that Prep School pronunciations are susceptible to teen-age exaggeration.

But all of those larded accents point out one or two features of flux.

It's sort of like the caged canary in the mine turning into an egret.



Bill King



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 4 Jan 1996 21:11:53 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Respelling



Re Ben Barrett's comment on Greek pronunciation of the  Theta : the point

here is simply that English speakers regularly assume that the spelling

 th , except in historically voiced function words, verb finals, and some

noun plurals, represents the English phoneme /THETA/ (our e-mail ASCII

limitations don't include a direct representation of the symbol). Thus the

modern English spelling-pronunciation of words like  theater ,  Anthony ,

 Elizabeth , and  Neanderthal  ("valley [dale] of the Neander river"),

which were imported with the spelling  th , though it represented a /t/ in

the language from which it was directly imported. The historical reasons for

the  th  in the borrowed form are various (Hellenism, elegant variation, etc.),

but since English did not borrow directly from spoken ancient Greek, the

actual pronunciation of 500 B.C. is not immediately relevant, except insofar

as someone may have had a theory about it which influenced the English

spelling, and hence the spelling-pronunciation (e.g., the re-introduction of

/k/ in  perfect  (cf. Chaucer's  parfit , the original borrowed form).

    --Rudy Troike (rtroike[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccit.arizona.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 4 Jan 1996 21:42:31 -0700

From:  William King  WFKING[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: IT in place of THAT



    I've noticed that in Arizona, IT is often substituted for THAT as a

demonstrative pronoun at the end of sentences where THAT would typically

refer to some clausal entity. I can't think of a real example at the moment

though I have actually done IT. This is not part of any of my native

dialects and rankles the heck out of me, though I'm now doing it.



Predictions: It will replace THAT in other pronominal contexts.

Counter-prediction: This is part of a a back and forth usage similar to

AT as a locative. I once read the testimony of shipboard trial in the 1690's

that included a phrase similar to "He then attested to where the place the

accused was at." I should say, that AT was used as a redundant locative

particle.

Why would usage sway back and forth? I'll leave that one open. The more

interesting question is "Why not?" Or "why so little?"

Bill King

wfking[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccit.arizona.edu



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 3 Jan 1996 to 4 Jan 1996

**********************************************





There are 7 messages totalling 122 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. 'old maid' (2)

 2. 'old maid' correction (2)

 3. source v.

 4. Empirical proof for "going postal"

 5. Re[2]: 'old maid'



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 5 Jan 1996 12:31:40 CST

From:  Joan Hall  jdhall[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU 

Subject: Re: 'old maid'



DARE's anecdotal evidence suggests that the term 'old maid,' for an unpopped

kernel of popcorn, is chiefly North and North Midland. But we didn't ask

this on our Questionnaire, so we don't have nationwide coverage. Are you

familiar with this term? If so, when and where? Thanks in advance.



Joan Hall



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 5 Jan 1996 12:35:18 CST

From:  Joan Hall  jdhall[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU 

Subject: Re: 'old maid' correction



Sorry--In my last posting I should have defined the 'old maid' as a kernel

of popcorn that fails to pop in the popper.



Joan Hall



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 5 Jan 1996 13:09:30 EST

From:  Beth Lee Simon  simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU 

Subject: source v.



Shepherd's catalog (which reads like a send-up of New Age restaurantspeak

and yet is just seductive enough that I'm tempted) has "sourced" in several

descriptions, as in



Merelda (a green pole bean)

    "sourced by us" from a seed supplier outside the U.S. The bean

itself was developed for the European/Spanish market.



Somewhere else in the catalog (but I can't find it just now), they say

they were asked to "source" a particular kind of seed.



This sounds odd/new to me. But then, I hadn't heard "go postal" either.



beth



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 5 Jan 1996 14:02:09 -0500

From:  Jerry Miller  millerj[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FRANKLINCOLL.EDU 

Subject: Empirical proof for "going postal"



If there was any doubt about the legitimacy of "going postal" as a phrase

people actually are using, it was removed (for me) when it appeared in the

"GRIZZWELLS" comic strip in the paper yesterday (here, anyway).

  At least cartoon bears are using it (unless, of course, the cartoonist

is on this list and picked it up here?)



Jerry Miller



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 5 Jan 1996 14:28:15 CDT

From:  Randy Roberts  robertsr[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]EXT.MISSOURI.EDU 

Subject: Re[2]: 'old maid'



   Joan: I am familiar with "old maid", as used in this context, in

   eastern Kansas for the last 30-35 years. Randy Roberts





______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________

Subject: Re: 'old maid'

Author: American Dialect Society  ADS-L[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu  at internet-ext

Date:  1/5/96 12:35 PM





DARE's anecdotal evidence suggests that the term 'old maid,' for an unpopped

kernel of popcorn, is chiefly North and North Midland. But we didn't ask

this on our Questionnaire, so we don't have nationwide coverage. Are you

familiar with this term? If so, when and where? Thanks in advance.



Joan Hall



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 5 Jan 1996 15:02:30 -0800

From:  Peter McGraw  pmcgraw[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CALVIN.LINFIELD.EDU 

Subject: Re: 'old maid' correction



"Old maid" in this sense has been current in my family since my

childhood. (All of us now live in Oregon, lived in So. California when I

first heard it; mother from Texas and Oklahoma, father from Iowa.) I

couldn't swear to hearing it outside my family, but think I probably have.



Peter McGraw

Linfield College

McMinnville, OR



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 5 Jan 1996 17:05:02 -0600

From:  Cynthia Bernstein  bernscy[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAIL.AUBURN.EDU 

Subject: Re: 'old maid'



Of the 23 students (juniors and seniors) in my Introduction to

Linguistics class at Auburn, only 1--a 24-year-old female from

Jacksonville, Florida (parents from Iowa and South Dakota)--was familiar

with 'old maid' in this context.



Cynthia Bernstein

Dept. of English

Auburn University, AL 36849-5203



On Fri, 5 Jan 1996, Joan Hall wrote:



  DARE's anecdotal evidence suggests that the term 'old maid,' for an unpopped

  kernel of popcorn, is chiefly North and North Midland. But we didn't ask

  this on our Questionnaire, so we don't have nationwide coverage. Are you

  familiar with this term? If so, when and where? Thanks in advance.

 

  Joan Hall

 



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 4 Jan 1996 to 5 Jan 1996

**********************************************





There are 6 messages totalling 126 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Mousey Tongue

 2. Respelling

 3. 'old maid' (2)

 4. American Diphthongs

 5. Philosical ponderings



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 6 Jan 1996 03:00:22 -0500

From:  SETH SKLAREY  crissiet[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IPOF.FLA.NET 

Subject: Re: Mousey Tongue



 yoroshiku

   Benjamin Barrett wrote:

   This is what happened with the revision of Chinese names to reflect the

   pinyin spelling system, too (Peking Beijing, etc). Inca Inka may be similar

   to the duplicity of Celtic & Keltic (though I doubt the b-ball team will

   ever change their spelling). Toukyou still remains Tokyo, though, Seattle

   still remains Seattle (rather than Sealth), Roma remains Rome, and doubtless

   many others will never change.



 I was curious who were the powers that were who changed Khadaffi to Qadaffi

and Mao Tse Tun to whatever they changed it to. I tried to popularize it to

Kadaffy and Mousey Tongue and Sadamn Who'sinane but to no avail.



Seth Sklarey

Wittgenstein School of the Unwritten Word

Coconut Grove, FL

crissiet[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ipof.fla.net



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 6 Jan 1996 03:00:24 -0500

From:  SETH SKLAREY  crissiet[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IPOF.FLA.NET 

Subject: Re: Respelling



 A colleague points out that long-standing spellings in the English lanuage

are being changed, and he is wondering what's up. The examples

 he gave are :

 Neanderthal becoming Neandertal so it is pronounced like German

 and

 Inca becoming Inka for no apparent reason.

 

 Leonard Schiefer            lschiefer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mcimail.com

 Chief Copy Editor

 Electronic Products Magazine

 Garden City, NY

 

Hey, Jimmy Durante did it 40 years ago (Inka Dinka Do!...)



Seth Sklarey

Wittgensein School of the Unwritten Word

Coconut Grove, FL

crissiet[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ipof.fla.net



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 5 Jan 1996 21:52:37 PST

From:  tom creswell  creswell[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CROWN.NET 

Subject: Re: 'old maid'



Joan,



I have only heard the term "old maid" in the popcorn sense once in my life.

The speaker was an old friend, a contemporary, born about 1920 in Nebraska,

but living in Chicago from early adolescence on. I made popcorn when he last

visited me, 1994, and he commented on the finished product, "Not very many

old maids."



Tom Creswell



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 6 Jan 1996 12:24:35 EST

From:  Boyd Davis  FEN00BHD[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UNCCVM.UNCC.EDU 

Subject: Re: 'old maid'



'old maid' for unpopped popcorn: yes, in the far reaches of Jefferson County

(Louisville) Ky -- haven't heard it here in NC, though

Boyd Davisfen00bhd[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]unccvm.uncc.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 6 Jan 1996 15:00:42 EST

From:  Terry Lynn Irons  t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MOREHEAD-ST.EDU 

Subject: American Diphthongs



It has been noted in many places that the diphthong that developed from

ME u has a nucleus varying from [a] to [ae] to [[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]] with variations

all around. The upglide varies from [U] to [w].



In looking through some LANCS records for the term for removing dried

beans from the pod, which alternates lexically as shelling/hulling,

often with "out" as a verb particle combination, I came across a

variant for the upglide that I had never seen nor heard before,

namely [o]. At first I thought it was a mistake, but it occurs in

several records transcribed by Raven McDavid. In most instances

the nucleus vowel is [ae] but in one case it is [a].



Has anyone else come across such a pronunciation of this diphthong?

I'm trying to produce it myself, but I don't know if I've got it

right and I haven't tried it out [ae o t] on anyone yet.



Could the fronting of the nucleus result in a lowering of the

upglide?  I have heard locally a reduction to [[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]] (represents

mid central position) after an tensed and raised [ae]. Could

this be a fronting from the [o]?



Terry Irons



--

(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)

Terry Lynn Irons    t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]morehead-st.edu

Voice Mail:       (606) 783-5164

Snail Mail:       UPO 604 Morehead, KY 40351

(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 6 Jan 1996 18:11:09 -0500

From:  "Kevin A."  Ash2Ash[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Philosical ponderings



A friend just gave me an insightful ponderable. It ranks with "the sound of

one hand clapping" and "a tree falling in the woods without sound". This one,

I felt was most useful to ADS it is: Why isn't the word phonics spelled

phonetically?



=)



Asher



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 5 Jan 1996 to 6 Jan 1996

**********************************************





There are 7 messages totalling 155 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. American Diphthongs (2)

 2. Empirical proof for "going postal"

 3. 'old maid'

 4.  No subject given 

 5. Various

 6. budge



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 7 Jan 1996 00:13:05 -0500

From:  David Carlson  Davidhwaet[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Re: American Diphthongs



I have found several occurrences of the [o] offglide in the Pacific Northwest

records. A lot more than I had expected when I was working on the list

manuscripts. A brief glance at the file shows it in "down", "drought", and

"without" . I had assumed that it may have been a fieldworker variation.



David R. Carlson

Springfield College



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 7 Jan 1996 00:19:18 CST

From:  "Donald M. Lance"  ENGDL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU 

Subject: Re: Empirical proof for "going postal"



Announcers on CNN Headline News have used 'go... postal' a number of times,

but sorta "in quotation marks." And 'hello' was a prominent feature of

one segment of "Talk Soup" on E! a couple of hours ago. 'Hello' is a

short form of 'Hello! Anybody home?', a rejoinder that I've heard occasionally

for maybe 3 or 4 years. But then I watch "Talk Soup," so who am I to say

what's normal?

          DMLance



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 7 Jan 1996 00:31:28 CST

From:  "Donald M. Lance"  ENGDL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU 

Subject: Re: American Diphthongs



In recordings of Missourians of German descent, I found [ao] to be

the diphthong used by those who had maintained several other German-

influenced features such as retracted [a]. Of course, they hadn't

retracted the [a] but simply used the sound of the German long a.

Once you start noticing [ao] you'll hear it frequently.  DMLance



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 7 Jan 1996 11:01:48 -0500

From:  Al Futrell  awfutr01[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HOMER.LOUISVILLE.EDU 

Subject: Re: 'old maid'



On Sat, 6 Jan 1996, Boyd Davis wrote:



  'old maid' for unpopped popcorn: yes, in the far reaches of Jefferson County

  (Louisville) Ky -- haven't heard it here in NC, though

  Boyd Davisfen00bhd[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]unccvm.uncc.edu

 

Indeed, I still hear it from time to time in Jeff County -- mostly older

folks :-)





Al Futrell

-- awfutr01[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]homer.louisville.edu

-- http://www.louisville.edu/~awfutr01

Dept of Communication -- University of Louisville



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 7 Jan 1996 10:30:00 CST

From:  Tom Murray  TEM[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]KSUVM.KSU.EDU 

Subject:  No subject given 



Three things:



1. I have a dim memory, stretching to perhaps 15 years ago, of reading in Dwigh

t Bolinger's *Language: The Loaded Weapon* a very brief discussion of why it is

 that harsh-sounding dialect features tend to disappear in song; why, for examp

le, a person with a heavy Irish accent when talking is nearly not recognizably

Irish when singing. The problem, of course, is that my memory is too dim to al

low me to find Bolinger's discussion, even after perusing the book for upwards

of an hour. Anyone have a clue?



2. Regarding Joan Hall's recent query, and admitting my own dialectal naivete,

of course I always thought that *old maid* was the universal English term for a

n unpopped kernel of popcorn. It certainly is in St. Louis, MO. What do the r

est of you use in its place?



3. I always thought *budge* was a negative-bias word, so that sentences like "T

he old man in the rocking chair hasn't budged all day" were grammatical while s

entences like "The old man in the rocking chair budged all day" weren't. But r

ecently the Head of my department wrote the sentence "We may have to budge on t

hat one" in describing a particularly ticklish political situation. Does "We m

ay have to budge on that one" sound as marginal to anyone else as it does to me

? Is *budge* really not a negative-bias word?



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 7 Jan 1996 17:12:04 GMT

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Various



 Bolinger's *Language: The Loaded Weapon* a very brief discussion of why it is

 that harsh-sounding dialect features tend to disappear in song; why, for examp

 le, a person with a heavy Irish accent when talking is nearly not recognizably

 Irish when singing. The problem, of course, is that my memory is too dim to al

 low me to find Bolinger's discussion, even after perusing the book for upwards

 of an hour. Anyone have a clue?



I don't remember what Bolinger said about it, but I had always thought that

some of what we think of as accent disappears in music because the pitch

is built into the music, thus taking away the pitch contours of the singer's

native language.



 unpopped kernel of popcorn. It certainly is in St. Louis, MO. What do the r

 est of you use in its place?



I don't remember having occasion to call it anything, but I guess I'd say

"unpopped kernels." I started to reply to Joan's posting when I first read

it to say that I *think* my mother once told me that she used to call an

unpopped kernel of popcorn an "old maid." But then I couldn't remember

that for sure. I'll try to remember to ask her. She was born in north

Alabama in 1914 but moved to Mississippi when she was eleven.



 hat one" in describing a particularly ticklish political situation. Does "We m

 ay have to budge on that one" sound as marginal to anyone else as it does to me

 ? Is *budge* really not a negative-bias word?



I've never heard positive "budge."

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 7 Jan 1996 16:45:27 CST

From:  Luanne von Schneidemesser  lvonschn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU 

Subject: Re: budge



In Message Sun, 7 Jan 1996 10:30:00 CST, Tom Murray  TEM[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]KSUVM.KSU.EDU  writes:



 

 3. I always thought *budge* was a negative-bias word, so that sentences like "T

 he old man in the rocking chair hasn't budged all day" were grammatical while s

 entences like "The old man in the rocking chair budged all day" weren't. But r

 ecently the Head of my department wrote the sentence "We may have to budge on t

 hat one" in describing a particularly ticklish political situation. Does "We m

 ay have to budge on that one" sound as marginal to anyone else as it does to me

 ? Is *budge* really not a negative-bias word?



My children started saying, in a different sense but used positively, "He

budged!" when they started school, for 'he cut in, he cut in line in front

of me'. At first I tried to correct them since this wasn't in my

vocabulary, but I soon realized that all the kids in their school (now

expanded to three different schools) use this in Madison.



Luanne





Luanne von Schneidemesser, (608) 263-2748

DARE, 6129 Helen C. White Hall, 600 North Park, Madison, WI 53706

lvonschn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]facstaff.wisc.edu



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 6 Jan 1996 to 7 Jan 1996

**********************************************





There are 13 messages totalling 414 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. positive "budge" (2)

 2. Various

 3. old maids

 4. Money on Coffee or Tea

 5. Re[2]: Various (2)

 6. Help! (R.E.M. lyrics)

 7. From The George Wright Society

 8. Losing one's religion (2)

 9. American Diphthongs

 10. Budge



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 8 Jan 1996 09:08:15 -0600

From:  "Kathleen M. O'Neill"  koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UIC.EDU 

Subject: Re: positive "budge"



  ? Is *budge* really not a negative-bias word?

 

 I've never heard positive "budge."

   --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



I'll second that.



;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

;Kathleen M. O'Neill ... Language Laboratory Technician I  ;

;koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uic.edu ... u55354[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uicvm.cc.uic.edu        ;

;:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::;

;University of Illinois at Chicago ... Language Laboratory ;

;703 South Morgan Street (M/C 042) ... Grant Hall, Room 311 ;

;Chicago, IL 60607-7025                  ;

;312.996.8838 or 8836 ... 312.996.5501 FAX        ;

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 8 Jan 1996 08:15:27 -0800

From:  Allen Maberry  maberry[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]U.WASHINGTON.EDU 

Subject: Re: positive "budge"



On Mon, 8 Jan 1996, Kathleen M. O'Neill wrote:



    ? Is *budge* really not a negative-bias word?

   

   I've never heard positive "budge."

     --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)

 

  I'll second that.

 

Thirds.



Allen

maberry[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]u.washington.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 8 Jan 1996 08:18:56 -0800

From:  Allen Maberry  maberry[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]U.WASHINGTON.EDU 

Subject: Re: Various



On Sun, 7 Jan 1996, Natalie Maynor wrote:

 

  I don't remember having occasion to call it anything, but I guess I'd say

  "unpopped kernels."



I can't recall ever hearing of them called anything but "unpopped kernels".



Allen

maberry[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]u.washington.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 8 Jan 1996 11:24:49 EST

From:  David Bergdahl  bergdahl[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU 

Subject: old maids



          Ohio University Electronic Communication





  Date: 08-Jan-1996 11:21am EST



   To: Remote Addressee           ( _MX%"ADS-L[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UGA.CC.UGA.EDU )



  From: David Bergdahl               Dept: English

     BERGDAHL                 Tel No: (614) 593-2783



Subject: old maids





My 11--yr old informs me that a very popular kid book by Tommy DiPaula, The

Popcorn Book, has the usage 'old maid' for 'unpopped kernel' so this may explain

its resurgence of late (altho' not among our parents' generation)



BERGDAHL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU

        David Bergdahl

            Ohio University/Athens

        "Where Appalachia meets the Midwest"--Anya Briggs







Received: 08-Jan-1996 11:24am



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 7 Jan 1996 22:56:41 PST

From:  tom creswell  creswell[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CROWN.NET 

Subject: Money on Coffee or Tea



Both my grandmother (child of Irish immigrants, raised in Joplin, Mo.) and my

mother referred to the bubbles that form around the edge of a newly poured

cup of coffee or tea as "money." Both would adjure me to take my teaspoon

and hurry up to collect my money before it got away. Is this usage familiar

to anyone else?



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 8 Jan 1996 11:20:49 CDT

From:  Randy Roberts  robertsr[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]EXT.MISSOURI.EDU 

Subject: Re[2]: Various



   I replied to Joan that old maid is a familiar term for me going back

   at least 30 years in eastern Kansas. Another term that is used for an

   unpopped kernel is "cull".



   Randy Roberts

   robertsr[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ext.missouri.edu





______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________

Subject: Re: Various

Author: American Dialect Society  ADS-L[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu  at internet-ext

Date:  1/8/96 10:17 AM





On Sun, 7 Jan 1996, Natalie Maynor wrote:

 

  I don't remember having occasion to call it anything, but I guess I'd say

  "unpopped kernels."



I can't recall ever hearing of them called anything but "unpopped kernels".



Allen

maberry[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]u.washington.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 8 Jan 1996 13:19:54 -0600

From:  LAWRENCE DAVIS  DAVIS[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]WSUHUB.UC.TWSU.EDU 

Subject: Re: Re[2]: Various



Old mail(s) for unpopped kernel(s) is known in Wichita, but is considered by

the few people I asked as quaint, old0fashioned.



Larry Davis



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 8 Jan 1996 14:52:39 -0500

From:  Jerry Miller  millerj[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FRANKLINCOLL.EDU 

Subject: Help! (R.E.M. lyrics)



The inhabitants of this list seem to have, in addition to an insatiable

hunger to know the quirks of dialect, a significant interest (and memory of)

song lyrics. So, I am hoping someone out there can help me fill in the blank

in an R.E.M. song that I plan to use in one of my classes.

   About halfway through "Losing My Religion" comes this verse, which,

though I've listened to it 122 times (well, maybe not quite that many) I

cannot decipher completely (the blank is the main problem, but some of the

rest of it may be a little off, too?):



    "Consider this, consider this, ___________ of the century.

    "Consider this, the slip that brought me to my knees, fail.

    "What if all these fantasies come flailing the ground?"



   Anyone who can fill in (and/or correct) this for me will be my friend

for life. I won't even ask what it's supposed to mean, though I AM curious

(and too old to get it, I guess).



Jerry Miller

Pulliam School of Journalism

Franklin College (Ind.)

millerj[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]franklincoll.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 8 Jan 1996 21:32:17 GMT

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: From The George Wright Society



I was asked to forward this to the ADS-L.  Natalie



  CALL FOR INTEREST

 

  ANNOUNCING the creation of a nonprofit, nongovernmental, international

  organization devoted to preserving the world's linguistic diversity, and to

  investigating parallels and links between biological and cultural

  diversity, TENTATIVELY CALLED:

 

  *Terralingua: Partnerships for Biolinguistic Diversity*

 

  Dear Colleague:

 

  Last July, at a Symposium on Language Loss and Public Policy held at the

  University of New Mexico in Albuquerque, some of the participants began

  discussing proposals to form an organization to preserve the world's

  linguistic diversity. Beyond this, these participants determined that any

  such organization ought to coordinate with groups working to preserve the

  diversity of species and ecosystems, thereby emphasizing the mutually

  reinforcing importance of cultural and biological diversity. At that time,

  a small ad hoc organizing committee formed to hammer out a statement of

  purpose for the organization.

 

  After going through a number of drafts, we, the members of this ad hoc

  committee, now feel ready to announce the formation of the organization and

  issue this Call for Interest to gauge potential support from you and

  others. We *tentatively* propose to call our organization "Terralingua:

  Partnerships for Biolinguistic Diversity" (see below for more on the name).

 

  The organization will have two basic purposes. First, to preserve the

  world's linguistic diversity in all its forms, regardless of political,

  demographic, or linguistic status. This means that we are concerned with

  the loss of any form of language, whether it be an endangered language, a

  disappearing dialect of a non-endangered language, declining bilingual use

  of a language (endangered or not) within a given country, and so forth. As

  you can see, the emphasis is on diversity as a whole rather than

  endangerment, though of course we will necessarily be deeply involved in

  supporting the preservation of critically endangered forms of language.

 

  We also are convinced that attempts to preserve either linguistic or

  biological diversity will ultimately not succeed unless both are preserved;

  that is, we believe in a holistic view of diversity in culture and nature.

  Thus, Terralingua's second basic purpose is to promote the investigation of

  the parallels and links between cultural diversity (of which linguistic

  diversity is an important part) and biological diversity. We want to build

  bridges between groups and individuals working to save languages and

  cultures and those working to save species and ecosystems. All of this is

  fleshed out in the organization's Statement of Purpose, which is attached

  to this Call for Interest.

 

  What exactly do we propose to do? Initially, our goals are modest. First

  of all, we want to serve as a rallying point for those who share our

  beliefs and who want to join us in doing something. Second, we want to

  solicit your suggestions on how we can establish the partnerships that are

  at the heart of the Terralingua vision. We particularly want to reach out

  to community-based groups and individuals working on "the front lines," so

  we would appreciate it if you could send us contact information for those

  that you know of. Third, we want to hear from you about what you think the

  organization's priorities should be. Once all this is in place, we will

  pursue a specific plan of action. As you well know, much needs to be done

  on all sorts of fronts. But we think that, working together, we have the

  talent, vision, and energy to make a difference for diversity.

 

  INTERESTED?

  We invite you to help us in making this organization a living, working

  reality. Start by giving us your ideas on building partnerships and

  priorities for action. We would also like to have your suggestions for

  what the organization should be called. Some of us like the "Terralingua"

  name with the subtitle, but others find the "Terralingua" part

  frivolous-sounding and obscure and have suggested a more straightforward

  name, such as "Coalition for Biolinguistic Diversity" or, simply,

  "Partnerships for Biolinguistic Diversity." What do you think? E-mail

  your ideas, along with your name, mailing address, telephone/fax, and

  e-mail address, along with any suggestions or comments, to:

 

  David Harmon (Provisional Secretary)

  gws[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mail.portup.com

 

  The initial announcement of the organization is being made through e-mail

  postings to a variety of lists serving the disciplines listed in the

  Statement of Purpose. Based on the response, we will then do a regular

  mailing to potential members and partners who do not use e-mail. On or

  around 15 February 1996, those who have responded will receive a prospectus

  for the organization containing a detailed statement of structure and a

  preliminary plan of action. At that time you will have an opportunity to

  formally join, if you wish (there is no obligation). We anticipate asking

  for modest membership dues (on the order of US$10.00 per year) to fund the

  operation of the organization.

 

  With thanks in advance for your consideration,

  The Terralingua Organizing Committee (gws[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mail.portup.com)

 

  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

  STATEMENT OF PURPOSE

  "Terralingua: Partnerships for Biolinguistic Diversity"

 

  A. We recognize:

 

  1. That the diversity of languages and their variant forms is a vital part

  of the world's cultural diversity;

  2. That cultural diversity and biological diversity are not only related,

  but often inseparable; and

  3. That, like biological species, many languages and their variant forms

  around the world are now faced with an extinction crisis whose magnitude

  may well prove very large.

 

 

  B. We declare:

 

  4. That every language, along with its variant forms, is inherently

  valuable and therefore worthy of being preserved and perpetuated,

  regardless of its political, demographic, or linguistic status;

  5. That deciding which language to use, and for what purposes, is a basic

  human right inhering to members of the community of speakers now using the

  language or whose ancestors traditionally used it; and

  6. That such usage decisions should be freely made in an atmosphere of

  tolerance and reciprocal respect for cultural distinctiveness-a condition

  that is a prerequisite for increased mutual understanding among the world's

  peoples and a recognition of our common humanity.

 

 

  C. Therefore, we set forth the following goals:

 

  7. To help preserve and perpetuate the world's linguistic diversity in all

  its variant forms (languages, dialects, pidgins, creoles, sign languages,

  languages used in rituals, etc.) through research, programs of public

  education, advocacy, and community support.

  8. To learn about languages and the knowledge they embody from the

  communities of speakers themselves, to encourage partnerships between

  community-based language/cultural groups and scientific/professional

  organizations who are interested in preserving cultural and biological

  diversity, and to support the right of communities of speakers to language

  self-determination.

  9. To illuminate the connections between cultural and biological diversity

  by establishing working relationships with scientific/professional

  organizations and individuals who are interested in preserving cultural

  diversity (such as linguists, educators, anthropologists, ethnologists,

  cultural workers, native advocates, cultural geographers, sociologists, and

  so on) and those who are interested in preserving biological diversity

  (such as biologists, botanists, ecologists, zoologists, physical

  geographers, ethnobiologists, ethnoecologists, conservationists,

  environmental advocates, natural resource managers, and so on), thus

  promoting the joint preservation and perpetuation of cultural and

  biological diversity.

  10. To work with all appropriate entities in both the public and private

  sectors, and at all levels from the local to the international, to

  accomplish the foregoing.

 

  (END)

 

  -------------------------------

  The George Wright Society

  P.O. Box 65  *  Hancock, Michigan 49930-0065 USA

  telephone (906) 487-9722  *  fax (906) 487-9405

  e-mail:  gws[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mail.portup.com      or     gws[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mtu.edu

  *A nonprofit association of park & protected area professionals*

 



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 8 Jan 1996 15:49:11 -0600

From:  "Kathleen M. O'Neill"  koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UIC.EDU 

Subject: Losing one's religion



    Anyone who can fill in (and/or correct) this for me will be my friend

 for life. I won't even ask what it's supposed to mean, though I AM curious

 (and too old to get it, I guess).

 

 Jerry Miller



Taken from the web site

http://http2.brunel.ac.uk:8080/~cs94smp/ootime.htm#Two

the lyrics are as follows...



 Consider this

 The hint of the century

 Consider this

 The slip that brought me

 To my knees failed

 What if all these fantasies

 Come flailing around

 Now I've said too much



Friends for life? ;)



;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

;Kathleen M. O'Neill ... Language Laboratory Technician I  ;

;koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uic.edu ... u55354[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uicvm.cc.uic.edu        ;

;:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::;

;University of Illinois at Chicago ... Language Laboratory ;

;703 South Morgan Street (M/C 042) ... Grant Hall, Room 311 ;

;Chicago, IL 60607-7025                  ;

;312.996.8838 or 8836 ... 312.996.5501 FAX        ;

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 8 Jan 1996 17:17:42 -0500

From:  Jerry Miller  millerj[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FRANKLINCOLL.EDU 

Subject: Re: Losing one's religion



 Friends for life? ;)

 

You bet, Kathleen. Thanks.



Jerry



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 8 Jan 1996 21:21:21 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: American Diphthongs



Terry,

    Re Raven's transcription of the offglide in  out  as an [o], that

certainly captures my own pronunciation better than a [w], since the glide

is clearly not all the way to a high back target, and the lip rounding is

rather weaker than would be implied by a [w]. I would certainly phonemicize

it as /aew/, but phonetically it would be inaccurate to use the traditional

[U] foisted upon us by the Speech-Communications folks, who keep misusing the

IPA. I hadn't really thought about the exact phonetic nature of this glide,

so thanks for bringing up the question.

    --Rudy Troike (rtroike[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccit.arizona.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 8 Jan 1996 21:29:21 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Budge



Having had to budge from time to time, as a department head, when the Provost

pushed hard enough, I would say that  budge  is not a negative-polarity item,

but it clearly implies, when not accompanied by the negative, some resistance

to willing movement, so there is an inherent negative implication.

    --Rudy Troike (rtroike[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccit.arizona.edu)



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 7 Jan 1996 to 8 Jan 1996

**********************************************





There are 7 messages totalling 115 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Budge (3)

 2. Help! (R.E.M. lyrics)

 3. poor as an owl

 4. budge

 5. 'old maid'



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 9 Jan 1996 07:35:59 -0500

From:  Charity Stafford  cls[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]WORLD.STD.COM 

Subject: Re: Budge



Just to further muddy the waters - 8-) - my mother

(age 62, born Providence, RI, mostly native to eastern

Massachusetts) uses "budge" occasionally as a positive,

*transitive* verb - "Go see if you can budge your father."

But I suspect this is family dialect - we make up a lot

of stuff.



Charity



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 9 Jan 1996 09:04:52 -0500

From:  Bob Foster  AmOptNews[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Re: Help! (R.E.M. lyrics)



I've read that the song itself is about an obsessed fan, written from the

fan's viewpoint.



Yer pal, bob



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 9 Jan 1996 09:43:38 EST

From:  Beth Lee Simon  simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Budge



But don't each of these "positive" uses assume an object of resistence,

even if passive resistance, and in that way, each has a negative flavor.



beth simon



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 9 Jan 1996 12:18:35 -0500

From:  "Dale F.Coye"  CoyeCFAT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Re: Budge



Our family, like Charity's, is one that plays with words a lot and we use

budge positively all the time, for example "why don't you budge out of that

chair so I can vaccuum underneath." In playing parchesi it's only natural

that if you can say "He's not budging from that spot," to then say when the

player finally moves, "Look, he budged." But this is only within the

confines of our home.



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 9 Jan 1996 12:09:53 CST

From:  Joan Hall  jdhall[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU 

Subject: Re: poor as an owl



Is anyone familiar with the phrase "poor as an owl"? If so, please give

time and place. Thanks.



Joan Hall



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 9 Jan 1996 13:48:42 EST

From:  Undetermined origin c/o LISTSERV maintainer

      owner-LISTSERV[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UGA.CC.UGA.EDU 

Subject: budge



It sounds as though all the uses, negative and positive, have the

same basic denotation: to move unwillingly. If we say "he finally

budged" the implication remains that he'd rather have stayed put.

And when we say "I can't budge her," it implies that her will to

stay put is stronger than our efforts to move her.



Vicki Rosenzweig

vr%acmcr.uucp[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]murphy.com | rosenzweig[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]acm.org

New York, NY



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 9 Jan 1996 14:59:41 -0600

From:  Miriam Meyers  mmeyers[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MSUS1.MSUS.EDU 

Subject: Re: 'old maid'



Yes. I never heard it growing up in the South (Atlanta), or even on the

east coast, though it may have been present in my northerly east coast

homes. I learned it here (Minneapolis) from a friend whose parents hail

from Virginia and W. Virginia (though they may have picked it up elsewhere

in their movings about).



Miriam Meyers/Metropolitan State University/Mpls-St. Paul



 Of the 23 students (juniors and seniors) in my Introduction to

 Linguistics class at Auburn, only 1--a 24-year-old female from

 Jacksonville, Florida (parents from Iowa and South Dakota)--was familiar

 with 'old maid' in this context.

 

 Cynthia Bernstein

 Dept. of English

 Auburn University, AL 36849-5203

 

 On Fri, 5 Jan 1996, Joan Hall wrote:

 

   DARE's anecdotal evidence suggests that the term 'old maid,' for an unpopped

   kernel of popcorn, is chiefly North and North Midland. But we didn't ask

   this on our Questionnaire, so we don't have nationwide coverage. Are you

   familiar with this term? If so, when and where? Thanks in advance.

  

   Joan Hall

  



Miriam Meyers

Metropolitan State University

mmeyers[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]msus1.msus.edu



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 8 Jan 1996 to 9 Jan 1996

**********************************************





There are 9 messages totalling 224 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Budge (2)

 2. Vowels, et al

 3. Oregon mist (4)

 4. old maids

 5. Oregon mist/old maids



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 9 Jan 1996 22:47:08 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Budge



As a further example inspired by Charity's mother's use, it seems to me

entirely natural to say something like "I expect he'll budge if he has to."

Again there is the implication that one budges only grudgingly.

    --Rudy Troike (rtroike[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccit.arizona.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 9 Jan 1996 21:54:03 -0800

From:  R Mckinzey  rkm[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SLIP.NET 

Subject: Vowels, et al



My cousin just sent this and I thought y'all might get a chuckle or two out

of it as well. Rima

 

   CLINTON DEPLOYS VOWELS TO BOSNIA

 

 Cities of Sjlbvdnzv, Grzny to Be First Recipients

 

 Before an emergency joint session of Congress yesterday, President Clinton

 announced US plans to deploy over 75,000 vowels to the war-torn region of

 Bosnia. The deployment, the largest of its kind in American history, will

 provide the region with the critically needed letters A, E, I, O, and U, and

 is

 hoped to render countless Bosnian names more pronounceable.

 

 "For six years, we have stood by while names like Ygrjvslhv and Tzlynhr and

 Glrm

 have been horribly butchered by millions around the world," Clinton said.

 "Today, the United States must finally stand up and say 'Enough.' It is time

 the people of Bosnia finally had some vowels in their incomprehensible words.

 The US is proud to lead the crusade in this noble endeavor."

 

 The deployment, dubbed Operation Vowel Storm by the State Department, is set

 for

 early next week, with the Adriatic port cities of Sjlbvdnzv and Grzny slated

 to

 be the first recipients. Two C-130 transport planes, each carrying over 500

 24-count boxes of "E's," will fly from Andrews Air Force Base across the

 Atlantic and airdrop the letters over the cities.

 

 Citizens of Grzny and Sjlbvdnzv eagerly await the arrival of the vowels.

 

 "My God, I do not think we can last another day," Trszg Grzdnijkln, 44, said.

 "I have six children and none of them has a name that is understandable to me

 or

 to anyone else. Mr. Clinton, please send my poor, wretched family just one

 'E.'

 Please."

 

 Said Sjlbvdnzv resident Grg Hmphrs, 67: "With just a few key letters, I could

 be

 George Humphries. This is my dream."

 

 The airdrop represents the largest deployment of any letter to a foreign

 country

 since 1984. During the summer of that year, the US shipped 92,000 consonants

 to

 Ethiopia, providing cities like Ouaouoaua, Eaoiiuae, and Aao with vital,

 life-giving supplies of L's S's and T's.    

 



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 10 Jan 1996 10:38:22 CST

From:  Joan Hall  jdhall[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU 

Subject: Re: Oregon mist



With just a day or so remaining in which to clear up questions in the

DARE entries I-O, I'm wondering if anyone knows the term "Oregon rain." It

can mean a light mist, or, ironically, a prolonged rain; we also have one

citation in which it means an "Idaho rain" (a dust storm). Is anyone

familiar with any of these senses? If so, when and where? Thanks in

advance.



Joan Hall, DARE



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 10 Jan 1996 13:04:03 EST

From:  flanigan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU

Subject: old maids



          Ohio University Electronic Communication





  Date: 10-Jan-1996 12:54pm EST



   To: Remote Addressee           ( _mx%"ads-l[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu" )



  From: Beverly Flanigan              Dept: Linguistics

     FLANIGAN                 Tel No:



Subject: old maids





  I used the term 'old maid' for unpopped kernels of corn as a child in

  Minnesota, but my mother (b. 1906) used it even more, as I recall.

  Testing its generational depth, I just asked my 26-yr-old son first if

  the term meant anything to him, and he suggested the card game and

  non-marriage; then I asked if he had ever heard it used for unpopped

  corn, and he said no. This would suggest that I never passed the usage

  on to him, and upon reflection I think this is true. Thus, the

  "old-fashioned" interpretation may be correct. Hope this helps, Joan.

                    Beverly Flanigan







Received: 10-Jan-1996 01:04pm



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 10 Jan 1996 11:03:08 -0800

From:  Peter McGraw  pmcgraw[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CALVIN.LINFIELD.EDU 

Subject: Re: Oregon mist



I've never heard the term, and a quick survey of my office drew only

blank looks except from one colleague who hasn't lived in Oregon very

long and thought he might have heard it but didn't know for sure or in

what context. I assume it's known only outside Oregon. To an Oregonian

it would be redundant: If you're in Oregon and it's raining, it's just

"rain." Another person in the office mentioned the bottled water labeled

"Oregon Rain" that is sold here in Made in Oregon shops.



"Oregon sunshine" (or "liquid sunshine"), on the other hand, is fairly

common as a jocular term for the state's legendary precipitation.



(Why "ironically"? Mist or drizzle and prolonged, but not heavy, rain, are

the two most common forms of precipitation in Oregon. The sudden, heavy but

relatively brief downpours of the East and Midwest are uncommon.)



Peter McGraw

Linfield College

McMinnville, OR



On Wed, 10 Jan 1996, Joan Hall wrote:



  With just a day or so remaining in which to clear up questions in the

  DARE entries I-O, I'm wondering if anyone knows the term "Oregon rain." It

  can mean a light mist, or, ironically, a prolonged rain; we also have one

  citation in which it means an "Idaho rain" (a dust storm). Is anyone

  familiar with any of these senses? If so, when and where? Thanks in

  advance.

 

  Joan Hall, DARE

 



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 10 Jan 1996 13:47:16 -0700

From:  Bruce Gelder  bgelder[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CAMEL.SIM.ES.COM 

Subject: Re: Oregon mist



I just asked a friend of mine from Oregon if she's familiar with the

term. She claims never to have heard it, although she says she's seen

lots of T-shirts dealing with rain in Oregon, such as, "People in

Oregon don't tan in the summer; they rust."



--Bruce



 With just a day or so remaining in which to clear up questions in the

 DARE entries I-O, I'm wondering if anyone knows the term "Oregon rain." It

 can mean a light mist, or, ironically, a prolonged rain; we also have one

 citation in which it means an "Idaho rain" (a dust storm). Is anyone

 familiar with any of these senses? If so, when and where? Thanks in

 advance.

 

 Joan Hall, DARE



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 10 Jan 1996 15:46:38 -0600

From:  "Charles F Juengling (Fritz Juengling)"  juen0001[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GOLD.TC.UMN.EDU 

Subject: Re: Oregon mist/old maids



Neither my wife nor I have heard 'Oregon rain/mist' I'll second Peter's

suggestion that it would be redundant.

I have always used the term 'old maid' for unpopped popcorn kernels. My

wife doesn't use it, tho.

We're both from Oregon.

Fritz Juengling

  With just a day or so remaining in which to clear up questions in the

 DARE entries I-O, I'm wondering if anyone knows the term "Oregon rain." It

 can mean a light mist, or, ironically, a prolonged rain; we also have one

 citation in which it means an "Idaho rain" (a dust storm). Is anyone

 familiar with any of these senses? If so, when and where? Thanks in

 advance.

 

 Joan Hall, DARE

 

 

Fritz Juengling

U of MN



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 10 Jan 1996 18:16:51 EST

From:  Beth Lee Simon  simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Oregon mist



Joan,

I just checked around here, on campus, IPFW, and no one knows it. The former

Oregonian (Eugene) doesn't know it.



beth



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 10 Jan 1996 21:47:24 -0500

From:  "Kevin A."  Ash2Ash[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Budge



I feel all the uses of "budge" thus far have been in some way negative. But

to further add to this, I once new a girl whose family called her Budge.

Their reason was because she was so bullheaded she would NEVER budge. A

rather negative nickname in my opinion.



Asher



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 9 Jan 1996 to 10 Jan 1996

***********************************************





There are 14 messages totalling 752 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Usage Newletter

 2. Grants available to travel overseas

 3. Oregon mist (3)

 4. Commonly misspelled words? (5)

 5. McX (2)

 6. Respelling

 7. Mousey Tongue



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 11 Jan 1996 08:03:23 -0600

From:  Alan R Slotkin  ARS7950[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]TNTECH.EDU 

Subject: Usage Newletter



This is just a reminder that the Committee on Usage hopes to establish a

newsletter that will be distributed through NADS. To date, I have only

received one item. Please consider submitting short notes, queries,

observations, etc., to me over the next few weeks. Without more participation,

a newsletter of this sort will not work. Hoping to hear from many of you soon.



Alan



-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Alan R. Slotkin

Professor of English

Box 5053

Tennessee Technological University

Cookeville, TN 38505



Phone: 615-372-3262

FAX: 615-372-6142

e-mail: ars7950[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]tntech.edu

-----------------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 11 Jan 1996 10:40:57 -0500

From:  Allan Metcalf  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Grants available to travel overseas



Are you perhaps traveling from the US to Wales for Methods IX this summer?

The American Council of Learned Societies (to which ADS belongs) may have

some money for you, if you act fast! The following message just arrived from

ACLS. - Allan Metcalf



*******************************



We've have fewer requests for applications in the Travel Grant Program this

year than at this time in years past. If you have the capacity to reach

your members quickly, could you remind them about the program? The

deadline for ACLS to mail applications potential applicants is January 29.

Text follows.



Thanks!



CALL FOR PROPOSALS FROM INDIVIDUAL SCHOLARS



AMERICAN COUNCIL OF LEARNED SOCIETIES

GRANT PROGRAM FOR TRAVEL

TO INTERNATIONAL MEETINGS ABROAD



Deadline: February 1, 1996



The ACLS, in cooperation with its constituent societies, announces a

program of travel grants, awarded on a competitive basis, to enable

scholars in all fields of the humanities and humanities-related social

sciences to participate in international meetings held outside the United

States and its dependencies. Priority will be given to well-planned,

broadly international meetings and infrequently-held international

congresses. This program is funded by the Gladys Krieble Delmas

Foundation. Approximately 170 awards of $500 each (regardless of

destination) will be made to individuals to offset necessary expenses such

as air travel to and from the U.S. The postmark deadline for applications

is February 1, 1996, for travel to international meetings occurring between

June 1, 1996 and May 31, 1997. Announcement of awards will be made by the

third week of April, 1996.



Eligibility: Applicants must hold the Ph.D. or the terminal degree in

their field and must be citizens or permanent residents of the U.S.

Scholars of all ranks affiliated with institutions, as well as independent

scholars at all stages of the career, are eligible to apply. Only persons

who will read papers or have a major, official role in the meeting are

eligible for an award. Membership in an ACLS constituent society has no

bearing on eligibility.



To request application forms, interested scholars should fax the ACLS

Fellowship Office, 228 E. 45th Street, New York, NY 10017-3398, fax: (212)

949-8058, and give the following information: (1) The official name,

dates, place, and sponsorship of the meeting, (2) applicant's highest

academic degree and proposed role in the meeting, and address to which

application should be sent.



Only applications from individuals on their own behalf will be accepted.

Conference planning committees or sponsoring organizations may not apply.





--

Julie R. Sissman

Program Associate

American Council of Learned Societies

228 East 45th Street, New York, NY 10017

Tel: 212 697-1505 x.130; FAX: 212 949-8058

julie[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]acls.org



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 11 Jan 1996 11:28:48 EST

From:  Bruce Southard  ENSOUTHA[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ECUVM.CIS.ECU.EDU 

Subject: Re: Oregon mist



I checked with a colleague who lived in Oregon from 1971-77. He

identified "Oregon mist" as a light rain that Oregonians would ignore,

but that would be sufficient to bring our umbrellas in any other part of

the country. While he was not familiar with the term "Oregon rain," he

said that "Oregon mist" was widely used.



Hope this helps.



Bruce



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 11 Jan 1996 12:29:57 -0400

From:  "Bethany Dumas, UTK"  DUMASB[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Commonly misspelled words?



As we have WOTYs, perhaps we should also have Commonly Misspelled Words (Comiswords?)

I have just been asked to supply to someone on campus a list of commonly

misspelled words  I have provided it's for its, their for there and there for

their. Can you assist?



(I have not taught English 101 recently.)



This is needed within 2 hours.



Thanks,

Bethany



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 11 Jan 1996 10:03:08 -0800

From:  Peter McGraw  pmcgraw[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CALVIN.LINFIELD.EDU 

Subject: McX



The "most Imaginative" WOTY for 1993, cited in Alan Metcalf's press

release last week - "McJob, a generic, unstimulating, low-paying job" -

piqued my curiosity.



Here in Oregon there is a term for a particular type of oversized,

expensive and pretentious but (IMHO) ugly house which typically crops up

either cheek-by-jowl with similar monstrosities in crowded subdivisions or

in mini-estates in rural subdivisions which sprawl over and consume former

forest or farm land. These houses are called by some "McMansions." I

heard it only recently and thought it singularly apt, but have no idea how

long it has been around.



1) Is the term "McMansion" known elsewhere?



2) Together, the 1993 WOTY and this one would seem to indicate a

productive use of the prefix Mc- meaning something like "McX is to X as a

McDonald's hamburger is to a GOOD hamburger." Is this something new, or

has it been around at least since 1993 and I am only now tumbling to it?

(I did check back a few years in American Speech, but possibly not far

enough.)



Peter McGraw

Linfield College

McMinnville, OR



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 11 Jan 1996 11:23:46 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Oregon mist



ZFrom: UACCIT::SEISNER   "Sigmund Eisner" 10-JAN-1996 10:43

To:   UACCIT::RTROIKE

CC:   SEISNER

Subj:  RE: fyi



Rudy: for whatever good this does, when I lived in Oregon people would speak

about an "Oregon mist." Then they would also (and always) add "It missed

Oregon and hit California." To me that meant that the Oregonian never avoided

(I almost wrote "missed") a chance to denigrate the Californian.

            Sig



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 11 Jan 1996 18:21:54 +0000

From:  "C.M.Thomas"  EGP95CMT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SHEFFIELD.AC.UK 

Subject: Re: Commonly misspelled words?



  As we have WOTYs, perhaps we should also have Commonly Misspelled Words (Comiswords?)

  I have just been asked to supply to someone on campus a list of commonly

  misspelled words  I have provided it's for its, their for there and there for

  their. Can you assist?

 

  (I have not taught English 101 recently.)

 

  This is needed within 2 hours.

 

  Thanks,

  Bethany





How about "haven't/havn't" and "arguement/argument"? I have problems

with these myself. Oh, yeah, and "definitely/definately". That one

always gets me too.



Charlotte Thomas

Snail mail:

CECTAL

Department of English Language and Linguistics

University of Sheffield

Sheffield 

S10 2TD

UK



email:

 EGP95CMT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]Sheffield.ac.uk



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 11 Jan 1996 13:24:47 -0500

From:  Kathy Burns  burns[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CYC.COM 

Subject: Commonly misspelled words?



  Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 10:29 CST

  From: "Bethany Dumas, UTK"  DUMASB[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTCC.UTK.EDU 



  As we have WOTYs, perhaps we should also have Commonly Misspelled Words (Comiswords?)

  I have just been asked to supply to someone on campus a list of commonly

  misspelled words  I have provided it's for its, their for there and there for

  their. Can you assist?



  Thanks,

  Bethany



Here is a list of Commonly Misspelled Words taken from the

online WHRS Style Manual & Language Handbook, at

http://www.wachusett-rhs.wrsd.k12.ma.us/style#spelling, followed by

a list of misspelled/properly spelled word pairs found at

http://www.sentex.net/~mmcadams/spelling.html.



-Kathy Burns



VII. WRHS NO-EXCUSE SPELLING LIST





a lot (not alot)

absence

accept / except

accessible

accidentally

accommodate

acquainted

acquit

acquitted

affect / effect

all right (not alright)

allot

allotted

already / all ready

amateur

ambulance

among

analysis

apparent

appearance

appropriate

argument







basically

beginning

believe

benefit

benefited

benefiting

bureau

business

buy / by







calendar

campaign

cannot

category

cemetery

changeable

character

characteristic

chief

choose / chose

coarse / course

college

coming

commit

commitment

committed

committing

committee

comparative

compel

competition

conscience

conscientious

conscious

consensus

consistent

convenience

continuous

cooperate

correspondence

criticism

criticize







deceive

definite

definition

dependent

describe

description

desirable

despair

desperate

develop

development

different

dilemma

dining

disappear

disappoint

disaster

disastrous

discipline

doesn't

dominant







economical

efficiency

eighth

eliminate

embarrass

environment

equipped

essential

exaggerate

excellent

existence

explain

explanation

extraordinary







familiar

fascinating

fatal

February

finally

forth / fourth

forty

friend







government

grammar

grateful

gymnasium

harass

hear / here

height

hoping

humorous

hypocrisy

hypocrite







immediately

impostor

incidentally

inconsistent

independent

indispensable

inevitable

inoculate

insistent

interfere

interrupt

irrelevant

irresistible







jeopardy

jeopardize

judgment







knowledge







laboratory

leisure

lead / led / lead

library

license

lieutenant

lightning

loneliness

losing

luxury







maintenance

maneuver

marriage

meant

medieval

mischievous

misspell

mortgage

municipal







naive

naivet

narrative

necessary

niece

ninth

noticeable







obedient

occasion

occur

occurred

occurrence

occurring

omitted

opinion

opportunity

optimism

optimistic







paid

parallel

particularly

passed / past

pastime

performance

permanent

permissible

persistent

persistence

personal / personnel

picnicking

planning

playwright

possess

practically

precede

prefer

preferable

preference

preferred

preferring

prejudice

preparation

prerogative

prevalence

privilege

procedure

proceed

prominent

pronunciation

psychology

publicly

pursue







questionnaire

quite

quiet







receipt

receive

recognize

recommend

refer

reference

referral

referred

referring

relevant

reminisce

repetition

rhythm

rhyme







sacrilegious

scissors

seize

sentence

separate

sergeant

sheriff

siege

similar

sincerely

sophomore

subtle

succeed

sufficient

supersede

suppress

surprise

sympathy

synonym







temperament

than / then

their / there / they're

thoroughly

to / too / two

tournament

traffic

transfer

transferred

transferring

tremendous

tragedy

truly







unanimous

unnecessary

until / till (not 'til)

urgent

useful







vacuum

vengeance

villain







weird

weather / whether

which / witch

woman / women

writing







your / you're





;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;







 1. annoint    anoint

 2. cooly     coolly

 3. supercede   supersede

 4. irresistable  irresistible

 5. developement  development

 6. alright    all right

 7. seperate    separate

 8. tyrrany    tyranny

 9. harrass    harass

 10. dessicate   desiccate

 11. indispensible indispensable

 12. recieve    receive

 13. persue     pursue

 14. reccomend   recommend

 15. desparate   desperate

 16. liquify    liquefy

 17. sieze     seize

 18. cemetary    cemetery

 19. subpena    subpoena

 20. definately   definitely

 21. ocassion    occasion

 22. concensus   consensus

 23. inadvertant  inadvertent

 24. miniscule   minuscule

 25. judgement   judgment

 26. innoculate   inoculate

 27. drunkeness   drunkenness

 28. occurence   occurrence

 29. disippate   dissipate

 30. wierd     weird

 31. alot      a lot

 32. accomodate   accommodate

 33. embarassment  embarrassment

 34. ecstacy    ecstasy

 35. repitition   repetition

 36. batallion   battalion

 37. dispair    despair

 38. irritible   irritable

 39. accidently   accidentally

 40. liason     liaison

 41. momento    memento

 42. brocolli    broccoli

 43. millenium   millennium

 44. yeild     yield

 45. existance   existence

 46. independant  independent

 47. sacreligious  sacrilegious

 48. insistant   insistent

 49. excede     exceed

 50. priviledge   privilege



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 11 Jan 1996 13:47:03 -0500

From:  Ronald Butters  amspeech[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ACPUB.DUKE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Respelling



On Sat, 6 Jan 1996, SETH SKLAREY wrote:



  Hey, Jimmy Durante did it 40 years ago (Inka Dinka Do!...)

 

See Dale Randall's article on "Marsey Dotes and Doesey Dotes and Little

Lamsey Divey" in the next issue of AMERICAN SPEECH.



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 11 Jan 1996 10:47:59 -0800

From:  Peter McGraw  pmcgraw[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CALVIN.LINFIELD.EDU 

Subject: Re: Commonly misspelled words?



I'm amazed that the list from Kathy Burns left out principle/principal.

I always have to think this out consciously to get the right one.



Peter McGraw

Linfield College

McMinnville, OR



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 11 Jan 1996 11:31:11 -0800

From:  Allen Maberry  maberry[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]U.WASHINGTON.EDU 

Subject: Re: McX



I've never heard of McMansion, but it is too good not to use.



On Thu, 11 Jan 1996, Peter McGraw wrote:



  The "most Imaginative" WOTY for 1993, cited in Alan Metcalf's press

  release last week - "McJob, a generic, unstimulating, low-paying job" -

  piqued my curiosity.

 

  Here in Oregon there is a term for a particular type of oversized,

  expensive and pretentious but (IMHO) ugly house which typically crops up

  either cheek-by-jowl with similar monstrosities in crowded subdivisions or

  in mini-estates in rural subdivisions which sprawl over and consume former

  forest or farm land. These houses are called by some "McMansions." I

  heard it only recently and thought it singularly apt, but have no idea how

  long it has been around.

 

  1) Is the term "McMansion" known elsewhere?

 

  2) Together, the 1993 WOTY and this one would seem to indicate a

  productive use of the prefix Mc- meaning something like "McX is to X as a

  McDonald's hamburger is to a GOOD hamburger." Is this something new, or

  has it been around at least since 1993 and I am only now tumbling to it?

  (I did check back a few years in American Speech, but possibly not far

  enough.)

 

  Peter McGraw

  Linfield College

  McMinnville, OR

 



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 11 Jan 1996 11:59:00 -0800

From:  "Joseph B. Monda"  monda[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SEATTLEU.EDU 

Subject: Re: Oregon mist



I recall my father calling a heavy rain (in Eastern Washington) "Oregon

mist." I believe I've heard the phrase used in a similar ironic fashion

at other times in my 66 years. I wonder whether anyone else has heard it

used this way.



Joseph B. Monda   email: monda[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]seattleu.edu

           smail: English Department Seattle University

               Seattle WA 98122



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 11 Jan 1996 15:20:31 -0500

From:  "Christopher R. Coolidge"  ccoolidg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MOOSE.UVM.EDU 

Subject: Re: Mousey Tongue



On Sat, 6 Jan 1996, SETH SKLAREY wrote:



   yoroshiku

     Benjamin Barrett wrote:

     This is what happened with the revision of Chinese names to reflect the

     pinyin spelling system, too (Peking Beijing, etc). Inca Inka may be similar

     to the duplicity of Celtic & Keltic (though I doubt the b-ball team will

     ever change their spelling). Toukyou still remains Tokyo, though, Seattle

     still remains Seattle (rather than Sealth), Roma remains Rome, and doubtless

     many others will never change.

 

  I was curious who were the powers that were who changed Khadaffi to Qadaffi

  and Mao Tse Tun to whatever they changed it to. I tried to popularize it to

  Kadaffy and Mousey Tongue and Sadamn Who'sinane but to no avail.

 

  Seth Sklarey

  Wittgenstein School of the Unwritten Word

  Coconut Grove, FL

  crissiet[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ipof.fla.net

 

 For that matter, Q: If followers of Marx Marxists, Lenin Leninists, and Mao

Maoists, what are followers of Idi Amin?

A: Idiots.



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 11 Jan 1996 16:53:43 -0500

From:  Ronald Butters  amspeech[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ACPUB.DUKE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Commonly misspelled words?



Those of you interested in Bethany Dumas's query about commonly misspelled

words might be interested in Christine Naxwell's book, THE PERGAMON

DICTIONARY OF PERFECT SPELLING (1977). This splendid resource book has

been more or less put out of business by automatic spell-checkers and

electric dictionaries, but it is still an interesting work and

potentially a valuable teaching aid.



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 10 Jan 1996 to 11 Jan 1996

************************************************





There are 15 messages totalling 414 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Commonly misspelled words? (7)

 2.  No subject given 

 3. Driving (2)

 4. 'old maid'

 5. McX

 6. Commonly misspelled words

 7. Misspellings and Dictionary Resources

 8. Misspelled Words



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 11 Jan 1996 23:26:04 -0800

From:  R Mckinzey  rkm[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SLIP.NET 

Subject: Re: Commonly misspelled words?



At 12:29 PM 1/11/96, Bethany Dumas, UTK wrote:

 As we have WOTYs, perhaps we should also have Commonly Misspelled Words

 (Comiswords?)

 I have just been asked to supply to someone on campus a list of commonly

 misspelled words  I have provided it's for its, their for there and there for

 their. Can you assist?

 

 (I have not taught English 101 recently.)

 

 This is needed within 2 hours.



This is probably too late for your needs, but it seems I am constantly

seeing your for you're.



Rima



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 11 Jan 1996 21:17:06 PST

From:  tom creswell  creswell[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CROWN.NET 

Subject: Re: Commonly misspelled words?



Too late, obviously to meet your deadline. May I suggest to any future

inquiries for lists of misspelled words you recommend pages 2476, 7, and 8 of

the _Random House Unabridged Dictionary, Second Edition_. Those pages

contain a list of worde commonly confused, some of which are spelling

problems such as accept/except and a far lengthier list of words commonly

misspelled than the list downloaded from www.



Tom Creswell



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 12 Jan 1996 15:53:58 +0000

From:  "C.M.Thomas"  EGP95CMT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SHEFFIELD.AC.UK 

Subject: Re: Commonly misspelled words?



  As we have WOTYs, perhaps we should also have Commonly Misspelled Words (Comiswords?)

  I have just been asked to supply to someone on campus a list of commonly

  misspelled words  I have provided it's for its, their for there and there for

  their. Can you assist?

 

  (I have not taught English 101 recently.)

 

  This is needed within 2 hours.

 

  Thanks,

  Bethany





There are numerous words which I frequently find to be misspelled. I

have noticed this in official publications as well as more casual

writings too, which is surprising. Among these are:

colour

centre

organize

rumour

armour

realize



There seems to be an interesting tendency for Americans to make these

misspellings. Maybe Americans are just generally bad spellers. It may

be genetic. Had anybody got any other possible suggestions for why

this might be?



Charlotte Thomas

Snail mail:

CECTAL

Department of English Language and Linguistics

University of Sheffield

Sheffield

UK



email:

EGP95CMT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]Sheffield.ac.uk



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 12 Jan 1996 11:42:23 EST

From:  Larry Horn  LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU 

Subject:  No subject given 



C. M. Thomas writes,



----------------------------Original message----------------------------

  As we have WOTYs, perhaps we should also have Commonly Misspelled Words

(Comiswords?)

  I have just been asked to supply to someone on campus a list of commonly

  misspelled words  I have provided it's for its, their for there and there for

  their. Can you assist?

 

  (I have not taught English 101 recently.)

 

  This is needed within 2 hours.

 

  Thanks,

  Bethany





There are numerous words which I frequently find to be misspelled. I

have noticed this in official publications as well as more casual

writings too, which is surprising. Among these are:

colour

centre

organize

rumour

armour

realize



There seems to be an interesting tendency for Americans to make these

misspellings. Maybe Americans are just generally bad spellers. It may

be genetic. Had anybody got any other possible suggestions for why

this might be?



-------------------------------------------------------



No, C.M. But have you noticed that everyone in Britain drives on the wrong

side of the road? And forgets to pronounce their final and post-consonantal

[r]'s? More work for those genome mappers.



--Larry



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 12 Jan 1996 17:08:01 +0000

From:  "C.M.Thomas"  EGP95CMT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SHEFFIELD.AC.UK 

Subject: Driving



  No, C.M. But have you noticed that everyone in Britain drives on the wrong

  side of the road? And forgets to pronounce their final and post-consonantal

  [r]'s? More work for those genome mappers.

 

  --Larry

 



That's a common misconception actually. The truth is that it is most

of the other countries of the world drive on the wrong side of the

road, and the British are the ones who are right (by driving on the

left).

And a good deal of British people (eg. West country, Scotland,

Ireland) do pronouncd the aforesaid [r ]'s, although I don't as I'm a

Lancashire lass.



Charlotte Thomas



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 12 Jan 1996 09:23:22 PST

From:  "//www.usa.net/~ague"  ague[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]REDRCK.ENET.DEC.COM 

Subject: Re: Commonly misspelled words?



judgement for judgment and others of this form



recieve for receive (has always been a problem for me)



your for you're, there for they're (I consider these to be stupidities, not

mispellings)



-- Jim



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 12 Jan 1996 12:32:13 -0500

From:  "Dennis R. Preston"  preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PILOT.MSU.EDU 

Subject: Re: Commonly misspelled words?



Charlotte Thomas notes the following:



 There are numerous words which I frequently find to be misspelled. I

 have noticed this in official publications as well as more casual

 writings too, which is surprising. Among these are:

 colour

 centre

 organize

 rumour

 armour

 realize

 

 There seems to be an interesting tendency for Americans to make these

 misspellings. Maybe Americans are just generally bad spellers. It may

 be genetic. Had anybody got any other possible suggestions for why

 this might be?

 

Now ain't that funny. I thought it was British spellers that were (perhaps

even genetically) malformed. I notice they always spell these words wrong:

theater (the spell it -re)

judgment (they use a extra 'e')

tire (they use a 'y' [!])

and lots of others.



But more seriously---



I was surprised to learn recently that France also has a national spelling

contest. I thought it was only the US where this low-level skill was

confused with intelligence and even moral (perhaps family) values. It's odd

that the many excellent surveys of usage and opinions about language use in

the US (Finegan, Bolinger, Drake, Bailey, etc...) do not touch on this

incredibly entrenched popular and folk-culture reality. (Notice that it is

a perennial part of every know-nothing back-to-basics movement). 'Attitudes

to Spelling in the US.' Great thesis.



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 12 Jan 1996 11:10:19 -0700

From:  Bruce Gelder  bgelder[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CAMEL.SIM.ES.COM 

Subject: Re: Commonly misspelled words?



 I was surprised to learn recently that France also has a national spelling

 contest.



Oh, things like that are big in France. When I lived there, there was

even a TV game show along the lines of "Conjugate That Verb" (not its

real name), where the host would travel to different cities, and contestants

would show their stuff by conjugating impossible verbs for big prizes.



AND--for all of you major-league French-verb-conjugating wannabes out there,

there's a web site at the University of Marseilles where you can practice

your skills. :-)



Just go to http://www-resus.univ-mrs.fr/Us/France/grammaire.html



-Bruce Gelder (bgelder[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]es.com)



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 12 Jan 1996 11:49:51 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Driving



A famous (perhaps apochryphal) headline in a British newspaper (or perhaps

the weather report on BBC) stated:

    "There is a storm in the Channel. The Continent is isolated."



--Rudy Troike (rtroike[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccit.arizona.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 12 Jan 1996 12:36:09 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: 'old maid'



Joan,

    I hope I'm still in time to get in under the wire on editing the entry

for this term.

    I asked my mother, now 92 and a native of Marshall, Texas, and she

immediately offered 'old maid', saying that it could apply to one or several.

A check with a woman in Oklahoma who grew up on a farm in the southern part

of the state with her grandparents drew a blank, however.

    A survey of Southern members of our faculty only drew three responses

so far, or rather 4. All but one were negative:

        Yes - Atlanta; only after prompting of term; doesn't use,

            thought her grandmother had used it.

        No - Atlanta

        No - New Orleans

        No - North Carolina



(that's five; I had forgotten one)

    Another faculty member, a native of Grand Island, Nebraska, confirmed

its use in his family.

    So the only strong positive comes from my mother, who grew up in

Palestine, Texas. I haven't re-checked as to whether she learned it from her

mother or grandmother, who were from Marshall.

    My first Atlanta respondent said she thought her grandmother had used

the term for things like an unmatched sock, and other unmatched things.



--Rudy Troike (rtroike[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccit.arizona.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 12 Jan 1996 16:34:37 -0500

From:  Allan Metcalf  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: McX



" . . . productive use of the prefix Mc- meaning something like "McX is to X

as a

McDonald's hamburger is to a GOOD hamburger." Is this something new, or

has it been around at least since 1993 and I am only now tumbling to it?"



David Barnhart's very valuable _Barnhart New-Words Concordance_ (Cold Spring

NY, Lexik House 1994) leads to one previous notice, "McDoctor" in the

_Barnhart Dictionary Companion_ 4.4 (Winter 1985). The word denotes "the

'urgicenters,' 'surgicenters' and 'quick care centers' that have sprung up in

business districts and shopping centers."



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 12 Jan 1996 15:32:32 -0600

From:  "Charles F Juengling (Fritz Juengling)"  juen0001[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GOLD.TC.UMN.EDU 

Subject: Re: Commonly misspelled words?



 Charlotte Thomas notes the following:

 

  There are numerous words which I frequently find to be misspelled. I

  have noticed this in official publications as well as more casual

  writings too, which is surprising. Among these are:

  colour

  centre

  organize

  rumour

  armour

  realize

  

  There seems to be an interesting tendency for Americans to make these

  misspellings. Maybe Americans are just generally bad spellers. It may

  be genetic. Had anybody got any other possible suggestions for why

  this might be?

  

 Now ain't that funny. I thought it was British spellers that were (perhaps

 even genetically) malformed. I notice they always spell these words wrong:

 theater (the spell it -re)

 judgment (they use a extra 'e')

 tire (they use a 'y' [!])

Dennis

you forgot this monstrosity (is that spelled right?)-- GAOL! For those of

you who don't know what that is, it's where the Brits put their criminals to

keep 'em off the streets.

BTW, has anybody noticed that the British are always using the wrong words?

For example, they always say 'got' when they mean 'have' as in "Had [sic]

anybody got any other...."

Fritz J

Fritz Juengling

U of MN



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 12 Jan 1996 16:40:27 -0800

From:  Chris Coolidge  ccoolidg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MOOSE.UVM.EDU 

Subject: Re: Commonly misspelled words



  colour

  centre

  organize

  rumour

  armour

  realize

 

  There seems to be an interesting tendency for Americans to make these

  misspellings. Maybe Americans are just generally bad spellers. It may

  be genetic. Had anybody got any other possible suggestions for why

  this might be?

 

  Charlotte Thomas

  Snail mail:

  CECTAL

  Department of English Language and Linguistics

  University of Sheffield

  Sheffield

  UK

 

  email:

  EGP95CMT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]Sheffield.ac.uk

 

 The above words are all spelled differently on U.S. soil from the

British pronunciation. Growing up in Canada I was in contact with both,

and it confused the hell out of me.

The correct American spelling:

color

center

organise

rumor

armor

realise



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 12 Jan 1996 20:18:45 -0400

From:  "Bethany Dumas, UTK"  DUMASB[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Misspellings and Dictionary Resources



1. Thank you, all who responded to my request for suggestions for a list of

commonly misspelled words. I turned a list in, and have learned that they

will appear on a U of TN website as the "10 _____ _____" of the month. As

soon as I have the URL, I'll post it.



2. Thank you, also, everyone who made suggestions about dictionary resources

on the topic of misspellings and also other topic. As a result of your

postings, I have decided to update the library presentation I give

undergraduate students (in several different courses, Ling 200 this

semester) every semester. I enlist the help of a reference librarian that

I often work with in introducing students to linguistic resources. Together

we haul many volumes to a classroom in the library. There we show

students the different kinds of info available in different kinds of

dictionaries. After we play with those for a while, we go out to the computer

area and look at the OED2 on CD-ROM.



I would welcome suggestions from any of you who have ideas about useful items or

exercises. After I have completed my revision of the library exercise,

I'll post some info about it to the list.



I am particulary grateful for website addressses I received. Are there others I

should know about?



Bethany



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 12 Jan 1996 22:37:47 -0500

From:  Virginia Clark  vpclark[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MOOSE.UVM.EDU 

Subject: Misspelled Words



    For the last few years, in addition to "it's" for "its," I've been

getting a lot of "its'" on student papers. I don't understand what's

causing that, and students, when asked about it, look blank. ITS'. Where

are they getting that?



Virginia Clark

University of Vermont



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 11 Jan 1996 to 12 Jan 1996

************************************************





There are 12 messages totalling 247 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Mcx

 2. ITS'

 3. McX (2)

 4. Misspelled Words (4)

 5. The reason kids miswrite ITS' (3)

 6. Commonly misspelled words



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 13 Jan 1996 00:21:36 -0500

From:  "Kevin A."  Ash2Ash[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Mcx



I graduated from high school in 1984 and for the four years I spent there we

would commonly use the Mc prefix for anthing that was cheap or mass produced.

I.e. McCar, McBook, McPhone, and the president used the McHotline to get a

good meal. It has been a slang use since `80 in my vocabulary, in as much as

slang can be defined that is.



Kevin



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 13 Jan 1996 00:22:46 -0500

From:  "Kevin A."  Ash2Ash[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: ITS'



I'd say the kids get it from a poor educational system and an inability on

our part to empart palatable language skills to the next generation.



Kevin



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 13 Jan 1996 10:30:46 -0500

From:  Ronald Butters  amspeech[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ACPUB.DUKE.EDU 

Subject: Re: McX



On Fri, 12 Jan 1996, Allan Metcalf wrote:



  " . . . productive use of the prefix Mc- meaning something like "McX is to X

  as a

  McDonald's hamburger is to a GOOD hamburger." Is this something new, or

  has it been around at least since 1993 and I am only now tumbling to it?"

 

  David Barnhart's very valuable _Barnhart New-Words Concordance_ (Cold Spring

  NY, Lexik House 1994) leads to one previous notice, "McDoctor" in the

  _Barnhart Dictionary Companion_ 4.4 (Winter 1985). The word denotes "the

  'urgicenters,' 'surgicenters' and 'quick care centers' that have sprung up in

  business districts and shopping centers."



All students of McX ought to read the article in AMERICAN SPEECH, based

onl an enormous amount of reserach, which Genine Lentine and Roger Shuy

published in the Winter 1990 issue (65.4: 349-66): "Mc-: Meaning in the

Marketplace"!



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 13 Jan 1996 09:47:04 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Misspelled Words



Virginia --

    When in doubt, use an apostrophe. It looks more elegant.

        Rudy



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 12 Jan 1996 23:01:59 PST

From:  tom creswell  creswell[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CROWN.NET 

Subject: Re: Misspelled Words



Virginia,



I agree with Rudy Troike. In fact, I have in my files a paper I delivered to

a meeting of DSNA (never published) entitled "Otiose Apostrophes" in which I

offer the same hypothesis. In the paper I cite numerous instances from signs

and other sources of apostrophic otiosity, including at least one, as I

remember, painted roughly in white paint on the black roof of a long disused

railroad roundhouse back in the fifties probably by some worker who sensed

the approaching doom of his occupation. The crudely painted, plaintive and

ineffective message read, "TAKE THE TRAINS'"



Please give my regards to Al and Paul.



Tom Creswell



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 13 Jan 1996 12:05:20 -0500

From:  Ronald Butters  amspeech[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ACPUB.DUKE.EDU 

Subject: Re: The reason kids miswrite ITS'



On Sat, 13 Jan 1996, Kevin A. wrote:



  I'd say the kids get it from a poor educational system and an inability on

  our part to empart palatable language skills to the next generation.

 

When you say "a poor educational system" what are your standards?

Compared to some Platonic ideal, the American educational system

obviously leaves a lot to be desired--particularly in terms of what the

kids' teachers get paid in relation to the hours they put in, the

difficulties many of them face, and the bashing they and their efforts

continually get from the public large. On the other hand, there as never

been an educational system in the history of the human race that set as

its task the education of such a high proportion of its citizens--and

succeeded as well as it has, GIVEN ITS GOALS and GIVEN THE MEAGER

RESOURCES that society has been willing to devote to the schools--and,

more importantly, on the social services that support the socioeconomic

structure from which so many students emerge. You get what you pay for.

Cheapskate education produces second-rate students, just as a cheapskate

welfare system has produced a huge underprivileged mass of students who

don't do very well in school or anywhere else in this society.



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 13 Jan 1996 11:12:56 -0600

From:  "Charles F Juengling (Fritz Juengling)"  juen0001[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GOLD.TC.UMN.EDU 

Subject: Re: Commonly misspelled words



  

  The above words are all spelled differently on U.S. soil from the

 British pronunciation. Growing up in Canada I was in contact with both,

 and it confused the hell out of me.

 The correct American spelling:

 color

 center

 organise

 rumor

 armor

 realise



My initial reaction for 'ise' in realise was that it's not right. Sure

nuff-- the AHD has only 'realize.'

Your inclusion of 'center' is an interesting one. I have observed that

'centre' is becoming much more commonly used, esp. if it appears in a name,

such as "the Evergreen Centre" (a shopping center).  I've noticed it from

the Twin Cities to Salem, Ore. There is even a sign on the freeway in some

LITTLE town in South Dakota which directs you to the "City Centre" (As far

as I could tell, it was not part of a name, but actually the middle of the

town.)

"Theatre" is another word in which 're' seems to be spreading. I think I

now see 're' more than 'er' in this word.

has anyone else noticed this?

Fritz J

Fritz Juengling

U of MN



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 13 Jan 1996 10:21:20 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Misspelled Words



Tom,

    Your paper sounds fascinating. It really ought to get published,

to document this interesting hypercorrection from the time period covered.

Why don't you send it to Ron Butters?

    Rudy



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 13 Jan 1996 10:53:04 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: The reason kids miswrite ITS'



Ron,

    Good point. It is unfortunate that linguists' message that spelling

does not equate with intelligence has not penetrated the public understanding

more fully. Visual memory for orthography is one kind of intelligence, which

might have no relation to other types, e.g., as a brilliant mathematician

may have variant spellings, and a perfect speller may fail the simplest test

in a linguistics or history course. But the stereotype is fixed in our

folk-beliefs, and continues to be perpetuated by the educational system.

    However, there is another curriculum-internal aspect to it. Back in

the 1960s, when Al Marckwardt and Harold Allen and Raven McDavid and others

were highly active in NCTE, the journals and conventions were full of articles

and papers by linguists, and NCTE was a major source of influence on the

English-teaching profession. In more recent years, linguists have become

highly marginal in NCTE, and linguistically-misinformed articles that would

have been quickly rejected in the past now routinely appear in the journals.

Thanks to NCTE and NDEA, and the work of Shuy and others at the Center for

Applied Linguistics, English textbooks were becoming sophisticated linguistic-

ally, and abreast of the current research. Some of the present texts, by

contrast, have been resurrected from the 1930s, and this is the sort of

material that is being taught to millions of schoolchildren today. It is

comparable to finding that current school texts in science were teaching

that the atom could not be split and that humans had never been to the moon.

Thus there is a real crisis in the growing linguistic ignorance of the

supposedly educated public. I am not sure what can be done about it -- becoming

more active in professional teacher organizations is one way, but the

situation, after so many decades of effort, is discouraging. Those of us who

teach teacher-education courses (which is probably most of us) or introductory

linguistics courses keep trying, but the results seem to disappear into the

sand instead of becoming cumulative, as one might hope.

    A note re Ron's point on our inclusive educational system: Of course

German spelling is more consistent than that of English, but regional

varieties are far more radically divergent from the "standard" Hochsprache,

so one might expect that command of standard written German might be a

significant educational issue. I once asked a German sociolinguist about this,

and he responded that it was not, that everyone wrote with no problem. But

when I pursued the question further to ask about the children of farmers and

shopworkers, he thought a bit and said, "Well, of course, none of them ever

go to college."



    --Rudy Troike (rtroike[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccit.arizona.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 13 Jan 1996 18:08:31 -0500

From:  Ronald Butters  amspeech[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ACPUB.DUKE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Misspelled Words



On Sat, 13 Jan 1996, Rudy Troike wrote:



  Tom,

      Your paper sounds fascinating. It really ought to get published,

  to document this interesting hypercorrection from the time period covered.

  Why don't you send it to Ron Butters?



You are one step ahead of me--I just wrote to Tom saying, "Thanks for the

"TRAINS'" anecdote. I really enjoyed it. I wish we'd published that paper

in the Miscellany section of AMERICAN SPEECH!"



Remember, though, that as of 1 January 1996 Connie Eble is the Editor of

AMERICAN SPEECH!



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 13 Jan 1996 18:17:02 -0500

From:  Ronald Butters  amspeech[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ACPUB.DUKE.EDU 

Subject: Re: The reason kids miswrite ITS'



Thanks for the wisdom. I especially appreciate the German anecdote. We

tend to forget just how ambitious this country is in terms of education

as compared to Europe (or even the USA in the earlier part of the 20th

century!).



I WOULD like to point out that several ADS linguists have been active in

NCTE, e.g., Allan Metcalf, Natalie Maynor, Walt Wolfram, and Dennis

Barton. We should all follow their lead. I confess that I haven't been to

an NCTE meeting for yeaRS (since I gave up directing Freshman English at

Duke!)



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 13 Jan 1996 22:23:13 CST

From:  mlbroom[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SAUMAG.EDU

Subject: Re: McX



My son called America On Line and Compuserv, etc. McServers as opposed

to a more local internet connection. It seemed to an apt phrase.

Marla



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 12 Jan 1996 to 13 Jan 1996

************************************************





There are 17 messages totalling 269 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. The reason kids miswrite ITS' (4)

 2. Don Lance

 3. Commonly misspelled words

 4. 'old maid' (2)

 5. Judgement and Theatre (6)

 6. Don Lance's address

 7. Driving

 8. Estimating Potential Book Sales



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 13 Jan 1996 22:12:14 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: The reason kids miswrite ITS'



Ron,

    Thanks for giving due credit to those who are still pushing the stone

up the hill at NCTE. I must plead mea culpa also, having diverted my energies

into bilingual education for twenty years. But despite all, on taking up

teaching English linguistics again after moving to Arizona, I was shocked

at the backsliding that had occurred since 1972, when we were confidently

and rather smugly singing "We have overcome", and thinking the English teaching

profession had been so thoroughly imbued with linguistic understanding that

the next generation of students would no longer have to have all the

traditional misconceptions and lack of knowledge remediated. Alas, if anything

the students today are even less knowledgeable than twenty years ago. And it

is not just a biased Arizona sample, since a large percentage of students

here are from other states (with temperatures in the 70s and having to use

the air conditioning today, the attraction is understandable).

    And while giving credit, let me add our collective indebtedness to

you for your outstanding contribution to us all as editor of American Speech.

    Rudy



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 14 Jan 1996 10:42:22 EST

From:  Beth Lee Simon  simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU 

Subject: Don Lance



Would someone give me Don Lance's current email address?



thanks,

Beth Simon



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 14 Jan 1996 20:30:08 GMT

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Commonly misspelled words



  "Theatre" is another word in which 're' seems to be spreading. I think I

  now see 're' more than 'er' in this word.

  has anyone else noticed this?



Yes. I'd say it's second only to "judgement" among British spellings that

are becoming American spellings. It's easy to understand why the British

spelling of "judgement" is becoming the norm here -- it's more consistent

with our rules. I don't know why "theatre" is moving in.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 14 Jan 1996 20:33:13 GMT

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: The reason kids miswrite ITS'



  I WOULD like to point out that several ADS linguists have been active in

  NCTE, e.g., Allan Metcalf, Natalie Maynor, Walt Wolfram, and Dennis

  Barton. We should all follow their lead. I confess that I haven't been to

  an NCTE meeting for yeaRS (since I gave up directing Freshman English at

  Duke!)



I'm not sure that I've ever been to one. As much as I appreciate being

included on the list above, I must admit that I don't belong there. I

can't remember when I was last a member of NCTE. Maybe fifteen years ago?

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 14 Jan 1996 15:00:17 -0600

From:  Gerald Walton  vcgw[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SUNSET.BACKBONE.OLEMISS.EDU 

Subject: Re: 'old maid'



At 12:36 PM 1/12/96 -0700, Rudy Troike wrote:

 A survey of Southern members of our faculty only drew three responses



I conducted a similar "survey" at a party during the weekend, all faculty

members or spouses. Only one person knew the old maid usage. She considers

Georgia her home, but she has lived in most parts of the US and parts of

Europe as the daughter of a career soldier. Others from Mississippi, New

York, Maryland, etc., didn't know it. GWW



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 14 Jan 1996 21:10:21 GMT

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: 'old maid'



I forgot to report that I asked my mother whether she had ever heard of

"old mail" for an unpopped kernel, and she said no. She said that she'd

never heard it called anything except an unpopped kernel. (I think I had

mentioned earlier that I had a vague memory that she might have told me

she had called it an "old maid" as a child. My memory was in error.)

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 14 Jan 1996 14:50:22 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Judgement and Theatre



In response to Natalie's comment, as I recall I first learned to spell

 judgement  with the  e , and did not drop it until after I got into college.

I would guess that  theatre  is primarily used in names, where it conveyhs

some of the "toniness" of upscale British usage, and would not be used in

more common-noun contexts. A seach of Lexis would help determine if there

is indeed any increase in this spelling. It has been around a long time as

an affectation.



    --Rudy Troike (rtroike[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccit.arizona.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 14 Jan 1996 17:09:09 EST

From:  Beth Lee Simon  simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU 

Subject: Don Lance's address



Thanks everyone!



beth



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 14 Jan 1996 17:10:23 EST

From:  Beth Lee Simon  simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Judgement and Theatre



Wait just a minute here...judgement doesn't have an "e" after the "g"?



beth



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 14 Jan 1996 22:25:34 GMT

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Judgement and Theatre



  Wait just a minute here...judgement doesn't have an "e" after the "g"?



I think the spelling with the e is included in most dictionaries now.

I stopped marking it as a spelling error on student papers years ago.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 14 Jan 1996 15:43:12 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Judgement and Theatre



Natalie,

    In far Southmost Texas,  judgEment  WAS considered the "correct"

spelling back in the pre-airconditioned paleolithic when I was in school.

And I usually won the spelling contests in our class.



    --Rudy Troike (rtroike[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccit.arizona.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 14 Jan 1996 22:49:16 GMT

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Judgement and Theatre



      In far Southmost Texas,  judgEment  WAS considered the "correct"

  spelling back in the pre-airconditioned paleolithic when I was in school.

  And I usually won the spelling contests in our class.



I don't remember anything about its spelling from back in my pre-ac

paleolithic years. The first time I remember thinking about it was

sometime after I was teaching school when I regularly saw "judgment"

on lists of frequently misspelled words.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 14 Jan 1996 19:48:03 -0500

From:  Ronald Butters  amspeech[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ACPUB.DUKE.EDU 

Subject: Re: The reason kids miswrite ITS'



On Sun, 14 Jan 1996, Natalie Maynor wrote:



    I WOULD like to point out that several ADS linguists have been active in

    NCTE, e.g., Allan Metcalf, Natalie Maynor, Walt Wolfram, and Dennis

    Barton. We should all follow their lead. I confess that I haven't been to

    an NCTE meeting for yeaRS (since I gave up directing Freshman English at

    Duke!)

 

  I'm not sure that I've ever been to one. As much as I appreciate being

  included on the list above, I must admit that I don't belong there. I

  can't remember when I was last a member of NCTE. Maybe fifteen years ago?

   --Natalie

Dear Natalie,

I guess I must have been thinking of SAMLA/SECOL/ADS. Clearly, you are an

inspiration even when you don't literally qualify!.



And of course that should be Dennis BARON, not "Barton" (my typo)!



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 15 Jan 1996 00:55:07 GMT

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: The reason kids miswrite ITS'



  Dear Natalie,

  I guess I must have been thinking of SAMLA/SECOL/ADS. Clearly, you are an

  inspiration even when you don't literally qualify!.



Kind words will get you everywhere. :-)



Actually, I was a member of NCTE back when I sometimes taught a course in

Methods of Teaching High School English, and I strongly urged all the

students in that course to join. And I once read a paper at CCCC. Isn't

it somehow related to NCTE?



I do agree with the points that have been made about the importance of

increased communication between k-12 and universities and am very glad

that at least a few ADSers are active in NCTE.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 14 Jan 1996 19:23:22 -0700

From:  William King  WFKING[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Driving



In --Made in America,-- Bill Bryson writes that "an unusual feature of

Conestoga wagons was that they were built with their brakess and

"lazy boards" -- a kind of extendable running board -- on the left-hand

side. If there was a reason for putting them there, it has since been

forgotten. With drivers effectively compelled to sit on the left, they

tended to drive on the right so that they had an unimpeded view of the

road, which is why, it appears, Americans abandoned the long-standing

British custom of driving on the left [pp158-59]."

    Was this unusual? If the brake lever were on the left, it would

leave the right hand free. Was it customary to drive on any side of the

road back at a time when most roads were single lane, or was there

some common courtesy regarding passing on such roads that evolved.

Are there any phrases that might give a clue?

Bill King



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 14 Jan 1996 22:37:58 EST

From:  Larry Horn  LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Judgement and Theatre



With all this discussion of _judg(e)ment_, it strikes me nobody has brought up

_acknowledgment_, its twin (at least in my grade school days). The one that

always gave me pause was _knowledgable_, where you really (IMHO) DO need that

'e' for velar softening. I see in my handy Webster 3, though, that the _know-

ledgable_ spelling is given first, so maybe my teachers were just being

idiosyncratically perverse.



Larry



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 14 Jan 1996 22:58:57 -0400

From:  "Bethany Dumas, UTK"  DUMASB[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Estimating Potential Book Sales



For purposes of completing book proposals, I need to know something

about how to estimate book sales (over 3-5 years) and how to convince a

publisher that one's estimates are worth the paper they are written on.

Any suggestions?



Thanks,

Bethany Dumas



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 13 Jan 1996 to 14 Jan 1996

************************************************





There are 22 messages totalling 503 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Judgement and Theatre (2)

 2. Knowledgeable (2)

 3. Estimating Potential Book Sales

 4. Estimating book sales

 5. myths about language (7)

 6. Denny's, etc restaurants (4)

 7. Piggin (Bucket) (2)

 8. USC addresses (3)



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 14 Jan 1996 23:24:44 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Judgement and Theatre



Larry,

    Tho I don't have W3, I would certainly NEVER spell  knowledgeable 

without the  e , since I really need it for the velar softening. The

same goes for  bridgeable , etc. And I do use the  e  in  acknowledgement .



Rudy

--Rudy Troike (rtroike[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccit.arizona.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 14 Jan 1996 23:31:58 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Knowledgeable



P.S. The OED does not even mention the spelling  ?knowledgable .

    Rudy



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 14 Jan 1996 23:39:33 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Estimating Potential Book Sales



Bethany,

    I've never had a publisher question an estimate; maybe they are

getting more hard-nosed these days. On estimations, I would start with

how many you would expect to use at UT, then extrapolate to a reasonable

number of other like institutions. And insist on a paperback to keep the

price down. I'm tired of seeing students stuck for $45 for a book of 150 or

200 pages because the publisher insists on a hard cover. I also think we

should boycott sending textbook manuscripts to publishers who charge

outrageous prices.

    Rudy



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 15 Jan 1996 09:59:00 -0800

From:  "Sheridan, Kathleen"  K.SHERIDAN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CGNET.COM 

Subject: Re: Estimating book sales



     I've never had a publisher question an estimate; maybe they are

 getting more hard-nosed these days. On estimations, I would start with

 how many you would expect to use at UT, then extrapolate to a reasonable

 number of other like institutions. And insist on a paperback to keep the

 price down. I'm tired of seeing students stuck for $45 for a book of 150 or

 200 pages because the publisher insists on a hard cover. I also think we

 should boycott sending textbook manuscripts to publishers who charge

 outrageous prices.

     Rudy



Just a suggestion for those who are really interested in keeping book costs

down. We publish an average of one major book a year with commercial

publishers: Cambridge University Press, Cornell University Press, John Wiley

& Sons, etc. Because our clients/partners are in less-developed countries, it

is very important for us to have these books reasonably priced. We have been

able to negotiate the retail price of the book by (1) doing the layout

ourselves and giving them camera-ready copy according to their style

specifications, (2) refusing royalties, and (3) buying a specified number of

copies up front (at a special rate).



There is only one press that refused to negotiate the sales price because

they said it would set a "bad precedent"; this was Kluwer (they didn't even

give US a very good price on the buy-back). An example of our success is the

recent book "Science under Scarcity" by Alston, Norton, and Pardey, published

by Cornell in 1995. It is about 600 pages of dense, economics text, but the

retail price of it is only $35.



Obviously, not everyone has the wherewithall to negotiate on all three

fronts, but most presses will negotiate and most are interested in working

with you to keep prices down.



Good luck.



Kathleen Sheridan

k.sheridan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cgnet.com



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 15 Jan 1996 02:26:52 PST

From:  tom creswell  creswell[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CROWN.NET 

Subject: Re: Judgement and Theatre



Again, I must agree with Rudy Troike's analysis of the cause for the use of

the spelling _theatre-.



Quite a few years ago, when I was in the unenviable position of serving as a

Dean at my university, a rather obnoxious man who was in charge of the

Computer Center embarked on a crusade to spell the name _centre_. Since it

was within my decanal power to do so, I vetoed his recommendation. Alas, he

went over my head to the president of the instution, also a type who thought

that anything British was by its very nature more elegant, approved the move.

Some years later, a new computer center director and a new president renamed

the service to something like Electronic Information Center.



Tom Creswell



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 15 Jan 1996 14:42:18 -0800

From:  THOMAS CLARK  tlc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NEVADA.EDU 

Subject: myths about language



A few years ago I had a list of myths about language that I used to begin

my semester in Intro to Ling. I had taken quite a few from the first

page of somebody's (work?)book, and made additions. Now I can't find it.



Can you help me out? Most of these were short, such as



Never end a sentence with a preposiiton

We acquire languaguage from out parents and caregivers only

People used to speak better English than they do now

Redundancy has no place in English

English is easier for children to learn than Chinese



Thanks and Cheers,

Thomas L. Clark

tlc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nevada.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 15 Jan 1996 18:32:42 -0500

From:  Benjamin Barrett  Gogaku[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GNN.COM 

Subject: Denny's, etc restaurants



ADSers,



After living in Japan for a couple of years, I'm not always sure when a word

is English or a Japanese coinage (ie, pantystocking (pantyhose) and autobike

(not in my dialect, anyway)). A question was just brought up on the

Japanese translators' forum concerning restaurants like Denny's. What do

people call them in everyday parlance?



Please respond privately and I will compile and submit to ADS.



san kyuu

Benjamin Barrett



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 15 Jan 1996 18:32:52 -0500

From:  Benjamin Barrett  Gogaku[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GNN.COM 

Subject: Re: myths about language



 Date:     Mon, 15 Jan 1996 14:42:18 -0800

 From: THOMAS CLARK  tlc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NEVADA.EDU 



 A few years ago I had a list of myths about language that I used to begin

 my semester in Intro to Ling.

 Can you help me out?



People use cuss words because they have a small vocabulary.

It's all Greek to me (?)



Benjamin Barrett



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 15 Jan 1996 18:43:32 EST

From:  Terry Lynn Irons  t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MOREHEAD-ST.EDU 

Subject: Piggin (Bucket)



In LANCS records for KY, the term "piggin" occurs 14 times, primarily in

south/southeastern counties--Letcher, Harlan, Leslie, Breathitt, Owsley,

Whitley, Pulaski, Allen, Estill, and Grayson. AHD defines a "piggin" as

"A small wooden bucket with one stave projecting above the rim for use as

a handle." Origin is unknown (I am looking at first edition I keep at

home.)



Does anyone know of the distribution and/or use of the term in other

parts of the country? Or is it a uniquely appalachian term, akin to

"milk gap"? I can find no mention in Kurath 49. It is apparently an

older term, which has probably dropped from current use. Does it appear

in DARE records?



Lost in the past,



Terry Irons

 --

(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)

Terry Lynn Irons    t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]morehead-st.edu

Voice Mail:       (606) 783-5164

Snail Mail:       UPO 604 Morehead, KY 40351

(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 15 Jan 1996 19:01:02 EST

From:  Terry Lynn Irons  t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MOREHEAD-ST.EDU 

Subject: Re: Piggin (Bucket)



In answer to my own query, I have found "piggen" among the list of

volunteered words in Table III of Gordon Wood's study of Southern

English, _Vocabulary Change_.  The occurrence is in Tennessee, which is

consistent with the southern KY pattern.



My question now is, does anyone know what is the fate of the materials

from this study? Are they archived anywhere and accessible for use?



Terry Irons

 --

(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)

Terry Lynn Irons    t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]morehead-st.edu

Voice Mail:       (606) 783-5164

Snail Mail:       UPO 604 Morehead, KY 40351

(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 15 Jan 1996 16:04:38 -0800

From:  Dan Moonhawk Alford  dalford[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]S1.CSUHAYWARD.EDU 

Subject: Re: myths about language



One of the best or most accessible current lists is in the Ohio State

_Language Files_, which I use in my Study of Language class.



On Mon, 15 Jan 1996, THOMAS CLARK wrote:



  A few years ago I had a list of myths about language that I used to begin

  my semester in Intro to Ling. I had taken quite a few from the first

  page of somebody's (work?)book, and made additions. Now I can't find it.

 

  Can you help me out? Most of these were short, such as

 

  Never end a sentence with a preposiiton

  We acquire languaguage from out parents and caregivers only

  People used to speak better English than they do now

  Redundancy has no place in English

  English is easier for children to learn than Chinese

 

  Thanks and Cheers,

  Thomas L. Clark

  tlc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nevada.edu

 



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 15 Jan 1996 19:59:12 -0400

From:  "Bethany Dumas, UTK"  DUMASB[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Re: myths about language



I am finally reading Pinker's _Language Instinct_. It presents a list of common misconceptions about language (pp. 17-18), then apparently (I have not

read the entire book yet) spends much of the rest of the book

debunking them.



Pinker's list:

1. language (L) is "man's [sic] most important cultural invention"

2. L is the "quintessential ex. of [human] capacity to use symbols"

3. L is "a biologically unprecedented event irrevocably separating

[humans] from other animals."

4. children learn to talk from role models and caregivers

5. sagging educ. standards have led to a debasement of standards,

grammar, etc.

6. English is utterly irrational



I have assigned the book as supplemental, required reading in Ling 200.



Bethany



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 15 Jan 1996 20:34:55 -0500

From:  "William H. Smith"  Wh5mith[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: USC addresses



Has the University of South Carolina gotten a new address? Or are all ov my

old addresses misprints? I just sent messages to several people at

csd.scaraolina.edu

and they bounced.

Specifically, I am looking for Greta Little, Boyd Davis, and Jeutonne Brewer.

Sincerely,

Bill Smith



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 15 Jan 1996 21:09:37 EST

From:  Terry Lynn Irons  t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MOREHEAD-ST.EDU 

Subject: Re: USC addresses



 

  Has the University of South Carolina gotten a new address? Or are all ov my

  old addresses misprints? I just sent messages to several people at

  csd.scaraolina.edu

  and they bounced.

  Specifically, I am looking for Greta Little, Boyd Davis, and Jeutonne Brewer.

  Sincerely,

  Bill Smith

 

A review of subscribers to ADS-L provides the following addresses:



Boyd Davis    FEN00BHD[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UNCCVM.UNCC.EDU

Jeutonne Brewer  jpbrewer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HAMLET.UNCG.EDU



There is no address for Greta on the list of ADS-L subscribers.



Terry Irons



--

(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)

Terry Lynn Irons    t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]morehead-st.edu

Voice Mail:       (606) 783-5164

Snail Mail:       UPO 604 Morehead, KY 40351

(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 15 Jan 1996 21:13:37 EST

From:  Terry Lynn Irons  t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MOREHEAD-ST.EDU 

Subject: Re: myths about language



 

  A few years ago I had a list of myths about language that I used to begin

  my semester in Intro to Ling. I had taken quite a few from the first

  page of somebody's (work?)book, and made additions. Now I can't find it.

 

  Can you help me out? Most of these were short, such as

 

  Never end a sentence with a preposiiton

  We acquire languaguage from out parents and caregivers only

  People used to speak better English than they do now

  Redundancy has no place in English

  English is easier for children to learn than Chinese

 

  Thanks and Cheers,

  Thomas L. Clark

  tlc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nevada.edu

 



Tom,



I think what you are looking for is in the first or second article in

a recent edition of Rosa, Escholz, and Clark's _Language_ reader,

St. Martin's Press. In fact, I know it is, as I used it for an exercise

in my Intro Ling this fall. I simply don't have the book to hand here at

home.



Terry



--

(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)

Terry Lynn Irons    t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]morehead-st.edu

Voice Mail:       (606) 783-5164

Snail Mail:       UPO 604 Morehead, KY 40351

(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 15 Jan 1996 21:23:39 EST

From:  Larry Horn  LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Knowledgeable



Rudy observes

 P.S. The OED does not even mention the spelling  ?knowledgable .



Actually, the first four citations under _knowledgeable_ spell it in the e-less

version; the ones from 1859 spell it in the "logical" way.  I don't know why

Webster 3 and my grade school teachers insisted on reviving the 'knowledgable'

spelling--maybe there was an E shortage during WWII?



Larry



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 15 Jan 1996 20:44:57 CST

From:  mlbroom[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SAUMAG.EDU

Subject: Re: Denny's, etc restaurants



Benjamin, of course places like Berger King and Sonic I call fast food

restaurants or probably just call them by their name: Let's go to Berger

King. If we're driving and don't know what will be coming up and are looking

for a general catagory I guess just "fast food". For Denny's (I think I

wouldn't go there anymore because of their descrimination problems) but I'd

probably say: "Let's look for something like Denny's" I would include Western

Sizzlin' in this catagory of sort of sit down fast food places.

    A few months ago I wrote to you about my son who was in Japan. He has

now gotten a job teaching English in a high school/jr. high. He is pretty

excited about it. I am pretty worried (moms do that). One of his bosses is

looking out for him though so I guess it will be ok. Thanks again for all

the information you took the time to send me. I enjoy your postings on ads

Marla



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 15 Jan 1996 22:01:12 -0500

From:  Virginia Clark  vpclark[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MOOSE.UVM.EDU 

Subject: Re: myths about language



At 02:42 PM 1/15/96 -0800, you wrote:

 A few years ago I had a list of myths about language that I used to begin

 my semester in Intro to Ling. I had taken quite a few from the first

 page of somebody's (work?)book, and made additions. Now I can't find it.

 

 Can you help me out? Most of these were short, such as

 

 Never end a sentence with a preposiiton

 We acquire languaguage from out parents and caregivers only

 People used to speak better English than they do now

 Redundancy has no place in English

 English is easier for children to learn than Chinese

 

 Thanks and Cheers,

 Thomas L. Clark

 tlc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nevada.edu

 





Oh--*that* list. Sorry to be slow in replying. It's the second article

(Harvey A. Daniels' "Nine Ideas about Languagae") in the fifth edition of

_Language: Introductory Readings_, edited by Clark (me), Eschholz, and

Rosa; St. Martin's , 1994. It also appeared in the fouth edition. The

article is actually a chapter from Daniels' excellent book _Famous Last

Words: The American Language Crisis Reconsidered_. 1983. Southern

Illinois University Press.



I hope that's the list you want.



 Virginia Clark

 University of Vermont



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 15 Jan 1996 20:58:15 -0700

From:  William King  WFKING[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: myths about language



Since I only have the 3rd ed. of __Language: Introductory Readings__, I

don't know whether the list includes the notion that Eskimos have 100 or

500 words for snow.

    A more controversial one, at least among writing instructors, is

that writing is the same as thinking, or, to the extreme, that only

verbalized thinking counts as real thinking.

    Finally, there is a widespread belief that writing in Japanese

and Chinese would be much, much easier if they'd only get rid of those

characters. A newspaper column called __Ask Cecil__ suggested that

typing in Japanese must be nearly impossible, although the truth is that

modern technology changed this a while back.

Bill King

SLAT program, University of Arizona



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 15 Jan 1996 21:11:40 -0700

From:  William King  WFKING[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Denny's, etc restaurants



Ca. 1986 we were asked what we called ATMs in the US. At the time we

just called them "bank machines," not having anything better. ATM

was not current usage in NYC, where we lived, at that time. The person

asking us, who was working on a national textbook for English, was

quite stressed.

So, when did "automatic teller" come into use? This certainly sounds like

a contrivance on the part of the bank coined in an effort to personalize

something that many customers were unsure of. Apparently they still are.

A current poll shows that 55% (? -- but it was very high) of the banking

public has not used an ATM.

Bill King  Univ. of Arizona



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 15 Jan 1996 21:13:46 -0700

From:  William King  WFKING[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Denny's, etc restaurants



I neglected to say that we were asked about ATMs by a Japanese professor of

English in Japan.

Bill



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 15 Jan 1996 23:23:47 -0500

From:  Jeutonne Brewer  brewerj[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NR.INFI.NET 

Subject: Re: USC addresses



Greta's address is:

n270019[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]univscvm.csd.scarolina.edu





At 08:34 PM 1/15/96 -0500, you wrote:

 Has the University of South Carolina gotten a new address? Or are all ov my

 old addresses misprints? I just sent messages to several people at

 csd.scaraolina.edu

 and they bounced.

 Specifically, I am looking for Greta Little, Boyd Davis, and Jeutonne Brewer.

 Sincerely,

 Bill Smith

 

 



**************************************************

* jpbrewer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]hamlet.uncg.edu           *

*   Department of English           *

*   University of North Carolina at Greensboro *

*   Greensboro, NC 17412            *

* brewerj[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]iris.uncg.edu             *

* brewerj[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]fagan.uncg.edu            *

* brewerj[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nr.infi.net              *

**************************************************



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 14 Jan 1996 to 15 Jan 1996

************************************************





There are 29 messages totalling 673 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Piggin (Bucket) (6)

 2. Denny's question reformulated (3)

 3. Bank machines (4)

 4. spelling of -ise words

 5. an E-mail (3)

 6. mail

 7. Theatre/ -er (5)

 8. myths about language

 9. e-mail

 10. -re (3)

 11. USC addresses



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Jan 1996 00:08:32 -0500

From:  David Carlson  Davidhwaet[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Re: Piggin (Bucket)



Piggin is not in the Pacific Northwest files, but I can remember eliciting it

from Roscoe Hilliker (age 80) from Lynn MA in 1967 or 1968 when I was doing

some DARE fieldwork.



David R. Carlson

Springfield College



Davidhwaet[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL,com



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Jan 1996 02:14:30 -0500

From:  Benjamin Barrett  Gogaku[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GNN.COM 

Subject: Denny's question reformulated



Thanks to Natalie Maynor and Marla Broom for answering my question so

quickly.



I guess I should just ask outright: Does family restaurant sound okay? or

family-style restaurant? or something else.



Again, please respond personally and I will post the results.



grand slamming it up in San Bruno

Benjamin Barrett



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Jan 1996 06:25:30 EST

From:  Beth Lee Simon  simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Piggin (Bucket)



Definitely check the DARE files. I remember "piggin" reponses. I'm not

there now or I'd check for you.



beth



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Jan 1996 11:27:07 +0000

From:  "C.M.Thomas"  EGP95CMT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SHEFFIELD.AC.UK 

Subject: Bank machines



Bill King writes:



  Ca. 1986 we were asked what we called ATMs in the US. At the time we

  just called them "bank machines," not having anything better. ATM

  was not current usage in NYC, where we lived, at that time. The person

  asking us, who was working on a national textbook for English, was

  quite stressed.

  So, when did "automatic teller" come into use? This certainly sounds like

  a contrivance on the part of the bank coined in an effort to personalize

  something that many customers were unsure of. Apparently they still are.

  A current poll shows that 55% (? -- but it was very high) of the banking

  public has not used an ATM.





In England (I know this is the American dialect society, but what

the hell) I have never heard anyone refer to bank machines as "ATM"s,

although I understood the abbreviation when I read it. They are most

commonly, in my experience, referred to as "cash machines" or "cash

points", or as the "hole in the wall". I think this latter term may be

dialectal (Lancashire), although I am not entirely sure, and people

from my area would pronounce it "'ole i' t'wall". ( I hope you

understand my attempt to represent it phonetically without an IPAfont at

hand!) Are any of these terms (especially the latter) used in America

(or other parts of England, if there's any other British

subscribers)?



Charlotte Thomas       EGP95CMT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]Sheffield.ac.uk

Snail mail:

CECTAL

Dept. of English Language and Linguistics

University of Sheffield

Sheffield

UK



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Jan 1996 06:45:24 EST

From:  Beth Lee Simon  simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Denny's question reformulated



Benjamin,



Family restaurant is the term here, neIN/nwOH, for that type of restaurant,

but (just asking around informally) Denny's isn't included in that type,

or isn't anymore. "You got to be careful when you go into Denny's" one

person said. "I've stopped there when I'm driving," said another, "but

I don't take my family."



best,

Beth Simon



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Jan 1996 08:09:06 -0400

From:  "Bethany Dumas, UTK"  DUMASB[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Re: Denny's question reformulated



SOmeone asked:



Does family restaurant sound okay? or

family-style restaurant? or something else.



Both sound okay. However, I do not think I would say either one.



Bethany



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Jan 1996 07:11:01 -0600

From:  "Salikoko S. Mufwene"  s-mufwene[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UCHICAGO.EDU 

Subject: Re: Bank machines



  In England (I know this is the American dialect society, but what

  the hell) I have never heard anyone refer to bank machines as "ATM"s,

  although I understood the abbreviation when I read it. They are most

  commonly, in my experience, referred to as "cash machines" or "cash

  points", or as the "hole in the wall". I think this latter term may be

  dialectal (Lancashire), although I am not entirely sure, and people

  from my area would pronounce it "'ole i' t'wall". (...)

  Are any of these terms (especially the latter) used in America

  (or other parts of England, if there's any other British

  subscribers)?



  The term "cash station" is commonly used in Chicago. I think it is used

both as a trade mark, like Cirrus (?), and a generic term for any ATM

machine. Never paid much attention to it, but your question helped me think

of this.



Sali.

**********************************************************************

Salikoko S. Mufwene        s-mufwene[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uchicago.edu

University of Chicago       312-702-8531; FAX: 312-702-9861

Department of Linguistics

1010 East 59th Street

Chicago, IL 60637

**********************************************************************



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Jan 1996 10:20:35 -0500

From:  "Dale F.Coye"  CoyeCFAT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Re: spelling of -ise words



Unless I've fallen into a time warp Americans spell virtually all words like

organize, realize with -ize, while in the UK it's -ise. The main exception

which comes to mind is advertise, but Webster's Third allows -ize here too,

though AH2, unfortunately, does not. What is Canadian practice ?



Dale Coye



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Jan 1996 07:47:36 -0700

From:  Bruce Gelder  bgelder[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CAMEL.SIM.ES.COM 

Subject: an E-mail



Some time ago we had a thread going about "an E-mail" vs. constructions like

"an E-mail message." At the time I swore I'd never heard "an E-mail" used

by itself, but since then I've heard it countless times. Since I haven't

maintained any data on the usage of the expression, either before or

since, I can't know for sure whether a) I'm noticing it because I'm more

aware of it now, or b) the usage is actually becoming more prevalent

in my speech community (I now hear "an E-mail" many times for every time

I hear "an E-mail message").



However, I have noticed one thing about it that seems interesting to me: from

what I've observed informally, those who use "an E-mail message" or a similar

construction tend to be heavily involved with computers either in their

employment or through surfing the net, and those who use "an E-mail" tend

to be either computer outsiders or very casual users only.



Has anyone else noticed a similar distribution?



Bruce Gelder

(bgelder[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]es.com)



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Jan 1996 08:20:57 -0800

From:  Allen Maberry  maberry[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]U.WASHINGTON.EDU 

Subject: Re: Bank machines



I use and regularly hear the term "cash machine" in the Northwest; a

holdover no doubt from the time when that's about the only service they

provided. I also hear "bank machine" but rarely "ATM".

Allen

maberry[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]u.washington.edu



On Tue, 16 Jan 1996, Salikoko S. Mufwene wrote:



    In England (I know this is the American dialect society, but what

    the hell) I have never heard anyone refer to bank machines as "ATM"s,

    although I understood the abbreviation when I read it. They are most

    commonly, in my experience, referred to as "cash machines" or "cash

    points", or as the "hole in the wall". I think this latter term may be

    dialectal (Lancashire), although I am not entirely sure, and people

    from my area would pronounce it "'ole i' t'wall". (...)

    Are any of these terms (especially the latter) used in America

    (or other parts of England, if there's any other British

    subscribers)?

 

   The term "cash station" is commonly used in Chicago. I think it is used

  both as a trade mark, like Cirrus (?), and a generic term for any ATM

  machine. Never paid much attention to it, but your question helped me think

  of this.

 

  Sali.

  **********************************************************************

  Salikoko S. Mufwene        s-mufwene[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uchicago.edu

  University of Chicago       312-702-8531; FAX: 312-702-9861

  Department of Linguistics

  1010 East 59th Street

  Chicago, IL 60637

  **********************************************************************

 



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Jan 1996 10:49:01 -0600

From:  LAWRENCE DAVIS  DAVIS[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]WSUHUB.UC.TWSU.EDU 

Subject: Re: Piggin (Bucket)



Piggin(s) appears 7 times in LAGS, but I haven't checked the actual locations.

The term also appears in the New England atlas in the following places:



    Barnstable, MA: Cultivated inf.

    Beverly, MA: Cultivated inf.

    Harpswell, ME: Storekeeper

    Calais, ME: Engineer



Kurath notes (map 129) that the term is for "small, old-fashioned containers."



The mapped terms are only pail and bucket. Piggin doesn't appear on the map at

all.



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Jan 1996 10:53:05 -0600

From:  June M Frazer  mfjmf1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UXA.ECN.BGU.EDU 

Subject: mail



I am not getting any mail and have not been since Jan 2. Maybe this

address--my wife's-- will work. Please contact me at this address if you

have business or a message.



Tim Frazer

Western Illionois University



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Jan 1996 10:20:24 -0500

From:  "Dale F.Coye"  CoyeCFAT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Re: Theatre/ -er



Having spent some years working in the theatre I was shocked to learn the

spelling was still an issue. My impression was that these days everyone

spelled it -re, even though it does smack of affectation. My impression was

confirmed by a glance at the NY Times where nearly everyTheatre (eg. the

Majestic) uses the -re spelling, the local Central NJ paper also confirmed

this usage. But in the Washington Post there were more -er spellings, notably

the Kennedy Center Theater, perhaps because someone thought that at least the

premiere theatre in our capital ought to resist the British invasion.

 Anyway, though I could be wrong, I think theatre people in general would

rarely use the -er spelling.

Dale Coye



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Jan 1996 11:14:05 -0500

From:  "Salikoko S. Mufwene"  s-mufwene[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UCHICAGO.EDU 

Subject: Re: myths about language



Chapter 2 (I think) of Derek Bickerton's LANGUAGE AND SPECIES contains one

of the most thought-provoking discussions I have seen of myths about

language (despite the fact that in my review of it--DIACHRONICA 1991) I

expressed a lot of reservations about the main theses of the book).



Sali.



******************************************************************************

Salikoko S. Mufwene            s-mufwene[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uchicago.edu

University of Chicago           312-702-8531; FAX 312-702-9861

Department of Linguistics

1010 East 59th Street

Chicago, IL 60637

****************************************************************************

**



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Jan 1996 10:20:33 -0500

From:  "Dale F.Coye"  CoyeCFAT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Re: Piggin (Bucket)



The opening scene in the musical The Music Man involves a group of travelling

salesmen lamenting the passing of their livelihoods. They list all the

things they sell for hard cash and it goes something like this:

Cash for the merchandise, cash for the hard goods

Cash for the soft goods, cash for the fancy goods

Cash for the noggins and the piggins and the firkins

Cash for the hogsheads, casks and demijohns

Cash for the crackers and the pickles and the flypaper.



Written by Meredith Wilson who was I think a native Iowan.



Dale Coye



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Jan 1996 16:59:56 +0000

From:  "C.M.Thomas"  EGP95CMT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SHEFFIELD.AC.UK 

Subject: Re: an E-mail



Bruce writes:



  Some time ago we had a thread going about "an E-mail" vs. constructions like

  "an E-mail message." At the time I swore I'd never heard "an E-mail" used

  by itself, but since then I've heard it countless times. Since I haven't

  maintained any data on the usage of the expression, either before or

  since, I can't know for sure whether a) I'm noticing it because I'm more

  aware of it now, or b) the usage is actually becoming more prevalent

  in my speech community (I now hear "an E-mail" many times for every time

  I hear "an E-mail message").

 

  However, I have noticed one thing about it that seems interesting to me: from

  what I've observed informally, those who use "an E-mail message" or a similar

  construction tend to be heavily involved with computers either in their

  employment or through surfing the net, and those who use "an E-mail" tend

  to be either computer outsiders or very casual users only.

 

  Has anyone else noticed a similar distribution?





I can't say that I've noticed the distribution you mention, although

I haven't listened out for it. I generally hear people talking about

simply an "email", and I certainly use this term myself as opposed to

the "email message" option. However, when I am communicating with

a friend via email, and know that I will be receiving my next contact

from them through email, I just use the term "mail" , as in "Mail me

soon". I do this as it's quicker to write, I think. There is no confusion here

 about whether I mean snail mail (incidentally, how long has the term

 "snail mail" been around for, as I think it's quite cute!?) or email due

 to our channel of communication. Or at least no one has ever shown

signs of confusion when I've used it!



Charlotte Thomas       EGP95CMT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]Sheffield.ac.uk



Snail mail:

CECTAL

Dept. of English Language and Linguistics

University of Sheffield

Sheffield

UK



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Jan 1996 11:32:17 -0600

From:  "Kathleen M. O'Neill"  koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UIC.EDU 

Subject: Re: Bank machines



Oops. Meant to send this to the list.



    The term "cash station" is commonly used in Chicago. I think it is used

  both as a trade mark, like Cirrus (?), and a generic term for any ATM

  machine. Never paid much attention to it, but your question helped me think

  of this.

  Sali.

 

 Yeah, I use "cash station" or "ATM" pretty much equally.

 

 But the bane of my financial existence is the MAC machine.

 My New Jersey boyfriend refers to all bank machines as "MACs."

 Which is fine, except that MACs don't seem to like me,

 or my bank card. I guess it's nothing personal, but about

 half of the time they just won't accept my cash card,

 even when they have the little Cirrus or Cash Station symbol.

 Worst of all, my average drops to zero percent when I'm in

 Ohio. Strange, huh? I could get cash out of an ATM in

 Germany, and I can't get it out in Ohio. God bless America.



;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

;Kathleen M. O'Neill ... Language Laboratory Technician I  ;

;koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uic.edu ... u55354[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uicvm.cc.uic.edu        ;

;:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::;

;University of Illinois at Chicago ... Language Laboratory ;

;703 South Morgan Street (M/C 042) ... Grant Hall, Room 311 ;

;Chicago, IL 60607-7025                  ;

;312.996.8838 or 8836 ... 312.996.5501 FAX        ;

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Jan 1996 11:27:22 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Piggin (Bucket)



Sorry for the earlier blank message accidentally sent --

    Following once again the model of my sainted OE prof, Rudolph Willard,

I repaired to the OED (as every varietologist should do when checking the

background of forms), and found

    Piggen - obs. var. of piggin

    Piggin - A small pail or cylindrical vessel, esp. a wooden one with

one stave longer than the rest serving as a handle; a milking pail; a vessel

to drink out of. The word is recorded in the Eng. Dial. Dict. from

Northumberland to Hampshire, also from Shetland, but it is not prevalent in

Scotland. It is applied very variously in different localities [examples

given run from an earthenware pot to a tin receptacle]. First listed from

1554. An 1863 ref. is from Georgia "a very small cedar pail".



--Rudy Troike (rtroike[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccit.arizona.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Jan 1996 12:23:43 -0600

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Theatre/ -er



I just pulled out my season ticket and noted "Starkville Community

Theatre." So I guess the British spelling has covered the country now.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Jan 1996 14:02:49 MST

From:  Tom Uharriet  UTOM[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ADMN.SHS.NEBO.EDU 

Subject: Re: an E-mail



  From what I've observed informally, those who use "an E-mail

message" or a similar

  construction tend to be heavily involved with computers either in their

  employment or through surfing the net, and those who use "an E-mail" tend

  to be either computer outsiders or very casual users only.

 

  Has anyone else noticed a similar distribution?

 

  Bruce Gelder





I hear both, especially "an e-mail." I certainly have NOT found the

more experienced users using the less abbreviated form. How about

the rest of you?



Tom

utom[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]admn.712.nebo.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Jan 1996 15:45:05 EST

From:  Steven Heffner  74754.517[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]COMPUSERVE.COM 

Subject: e-mail



  However, I have noticed one thing about it that seems interesting to me: from

what I've observed informally, those who use "an E-mail message" or a similar

construction tend to be heavily involved with computers either in their

employment or through surfing the net, and those who use "an E-mail" tend to be

either computer outsiders or very casual users only.  





I have noticed the exact opposite. The term "e-mail message" is the awkward,

outsider's term. Simply "e-mail" is the jargon. Also note that according many

style books and editor's newsletters, the lowercase "e" is becoming the agreed

upon style.



Steven Heffner



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Jan 1996 17:04:04 -0500

From:  "Dale F.Coye"  CoyeCFAT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Re: Theatre/ -er



Reading today's NY Times I noted that although the theatres themselves use

the -re ending, the Times editorial policy seems to be to use -er in its

copy.



Dale Coye



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Jan 1996 15:26:16 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Theatre/ -er



Pity poor students all over the country, now having spelling further

complicated by having to remember that some places/people use  -re  in

one or two words, and the rest of us remain consistent throughout.

    Rudy

    --Rudy Troike (rtroike[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccit.arizona.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Jan 1996 17:44:51 -0500

From:  "H Stephen STRAIGHT (Binghamton University,

     SUNY)"  sstraigh[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]BINGSUNS.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU 

Subject: Re: -re



I'm curious to know whether I'm the only person in the world who

distinguishes the -er and -re spellings of theat-er/-re by using the

former to refer to the place (They're painting the marquee on the

theater.) and the latter to refer to the institution (They're creating new

ideas for the American theatre.). On this usage, the theatre

department/*theater department versus the theater manager/*theatre

manager.



    Best.     'Bye.      Steve

 H Stephen STRAIGHT Langs Across the Curric, Binghamton University (SUNY)

 NFLC Mellon Fellow, Jan-June 1996    VOX: 202-667-8100; FAX: 667-6907

 1619 Massachusetts Ave NW -- Fourth Floor      Washington, DC 20036

   sstraigh[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu  ["sstraigh", not "sstraight"!]



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Jan 1996 17:47:54 -0600

From:  "Kathleen M. O'Neill"  koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UIC.EDU 

Subject: Re: -re



 I'm curious to know whether I'm the only person in the world who

 distinguishes the -er and -re spellings of theat-er/-re by using the

 former to refer to the place (They're painting the marquee on the

 theater.) and the latter to refer to the institution (They're creating new

 ideas for the American theatre.). On this usage, the theatre

 department/*theater department versus the theater manager/*theatre

 manager.

 

  H Stephen STRAIGHT



Wow! I was wondering if I was the only one.

Yes, I do that, too. And not only that,

I pronounce the institution with the stress

on the first syllable and the place with the

stress on the second syllable.



I've done that as long as I can remember,

and I've been involved in theatre since I was 8.

Glad to know I'm not so strange. ;)



;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

;Kathleen M. O'Neill ... Language Laboratory Technician I  ;

;koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uic.edu ... u55354[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uicvm.cc.uic.edu        ;

;:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::;

;University of Illinois at Chicago ... Language Laboratory ;

;703 South Morgan Street (M/C 042) ... Grant Hall, Room 311 ;

;Chicago, IL 60607-7025                  ;

;312.996.8838 or 8836 ... 312.996.5501 FAX        ;

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Jan 1996 15:50:50 -0800

From:  Peter McGraw  pmcgraw[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CALVIN.LINFIELD.EDU 

Subject: Re: -re



As a matter of fact, Steve, I've been wondering the same thing as I followed

this discussion. For years my unspoken understanding was that a "theater"

was a building where one saw a movie (or I suppose a play), whereas "the

theatre" meant the "legitimate stage" as an institution and was usually to

be pronounced with a stagy British accent. It was only when I was grown

that I learned somewhat to my surprise that everybody else seemed to

insist on one spelling or the other, with the -re spelling "chiefly Brit."



Peter McGraw

Linfield College

McMinnville, OR





On Tue, 16 Jan 1996, H Stephen STRAIGHT (Binghamton University, SUNY) wrote:



  I'm curious to know whether I'm the only person in the world who

  distinguishes the -er and -re spellings of theat-er/-re by using the

  former to refer to the place (They're painting the marquee on the

  theater.) and the latter to refer to the institution (They're creating new

  ideas for the American theatre.). On this usage, the theatre

  department/*theater department versus the theater manager/*theatre

  manager.

 

      Best.     'Bye.      Steve

  H Stephen STRAIGHT Langs Across the Curric, Binghamton University (SUNY)

  NFLC Mellon Fellow, Jan-June 1996    VOX: 202-667-8100; FAX: 667-6907

  1619 Massachusetts Ave NW -- Fourth Floor      Washington, DC 20036

    sstraigh[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu  ["sstraigh", not "sstraight"!]

 



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Jan 1996 15:55:01 PST

From:  "//www.usa.net/~ague"  ague[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]REDRCK.ENET.DEC.COM 

Subject: Re: Piggin (Bucket)



Using Web Search engine, "piggin" can be either a bucket or a type of cowboy's

rope. Although the latter might be a shortened form of "pigging".



 From "The Island of Doctor Moreau" by HGWells, (etext as entered by The

Project Gutenberg):



...

"I had recovered from my hysterical phase by this time

and answered his hail, as he approached, bravely enough.

I told him the dingey was nearly swamped, and he reached me a piggin.

I was jerked back as the rope tightened between the boats.

For some time I was busy baling."



...

"At a word of command from Montgomery, the four men in the launch

sprang up, and with singularly awkward gestures struck the lugs.

Montgomery steered us round and into a narrow little dock excavated

in the beach. Then the man on the beach hastened towards us.

This dock, as I call it, was really a mere ditch just long

enough at this phase of the tide to take the longboat.

I heard the bows ground in the sand, staved the dingey off the rudder

of the big boat with my piggin, and freeing the painter, landed.

The three muffled men, with the clumsiest movements, scrambled out

upon the sand, and forthwith set to landing the cargo, assisted by

the man on the beach. I was struck especially by the curious

movements of the legs of the three swathed and bandaged boatmen,--

not stiff they were, but distorted in some odd way, almost as if they

were jointed in the wrong place."



 From "Peter D. Green's Nautical Words and Terminology Page",

http://mulberry.com/~greenpd/nauterm.html:



 Piggin: Very small wooden pail having one stave prolonged to form a handle.

Used as a bailer in a boat



 From the THE NATIONAL COWBOY HALL OF FAME AND WESTERN HERITAGE CENTER home

page, http://www.horseworld.com/nchf/rodeo2.html, on Calf-roping:



"The calf is released with a designated headstart, tripping a barrier for

pursuit by horse and rider. As the horse overtakes the calf, the contestant

must rope the calf cleanly around the neck (two throws are allowed) and bring

his horse to an immediate stop, pulling the calf to the ground. While the

horse maintains a taut rope on the calf, the contestant runs to the animal,

throws it and ties any three legs securely with a "piggin' string.""



-- Jim



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Jan 1996 21:31:06 -0500

From:  "William H. Smith"  Wh5mith[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Re: USC addresses



Dear Jeutonne,

Thanks for the correction. Now that the snow is gone and I have gotten to

school,

I find your correct address in the SECOL Bulletin.

What I originally wanted was a nominee of a junior (or senior) SECOL member

to

serve as a judge for the REza Ordoubadian Award. Do you have any suggestions

(draftees)?

Sincerely,

Bill



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Jan 1996 21:53:57 -0700

From:  William King  WFKING[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Theatre/ -er



One possible plump for "theatre" is that so much more theatre is produced

in London than in NYC, which is the theatre center (-er!) of the the US.

Plays are produced in greater quantity in London and admission is relatively

cheap for the quality.

That said, the prestige/affectation factor is only increased by this.



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 15 Jan 1996 to 16 Jan 1996

************************************************





There are 14 messages totalling 275 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Another piggin reference

 2. Theatre/ -er

 3. Grants available to travel overseas

 4. Apology/Thanks (2nd attempt)

 5. A Query (4)

 6. Denny's question reformulated (4)

 7. Piggin (Bucket)

 8. Flaming



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Jan 1996 22:02:22 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Another piggin reference



A colleague of mine, Carl Berkhout, shared the following reference:



Rudy:



I trust that Moby-Dick and about five other texts also turned up in the

search.



  Chapter lxi

 

  STUBB KILLS A WHALE

 

   Partly to show the indispensableness of this act, it may here be

   stated, that, in the old Dutch fishery, a mop was used to dash the

   running line with water; in many other ships, a wooden piggin, or

   bailer, is set apart for that purpose. Your hat, however, is the most

   convenient.



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 16 Jan 1996 22:02:40 -0800

From:  THOMAS CLARK  tlc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NEVADA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Theatre/ -er



You might check Noah Webster's reason (either 1806 or the OTHER one)

Noah was careful to point out nothing of "theatre" in London, as opposed

to "theater" in NYC. However, I will agree that my experience is that

theater in London is superior to that in NYC in the 1980's and '90s.

Cheers,

tlc





On Tue, 16 Jan 1996, William King wrote:



  One possible plump for "theatre" is that so much more theatre is produced

  in London than in NYC, which is the theatre center (-er!) of the the US.

  Plays are produced in greater quantity in London and admission is relatively

  cheap for the quality.

  That said, the prestige/affectation factor is only increased by this.

 



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 17 Jan 1996 08:42:18 -0400

From:  "Bethany Dumas, UTK"  DUMASB[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Re: Grants available to travel overseas



Thanks for sending the message about ACLS funds.



And Happy New Year!



Bethany



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 17 Jan 1996 10:01:36 -0400

From:  "Bethany Dumas, UTK"  DUMASB[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Apology/Thanks (2nd attempt)



Double apologies if you get this twice. The postmaster told me that the

message was not sent the first time I tried.



I apologize for inadvertently sending my private note of thanks to the

entire list; it was intended for Allan Metcalfe, of course.



Bethany



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 17 Jan 1996 08:39:00 CST

From:  Tom Murray  TEM[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]KSUVM.KSU.EDU 

Subject: A Query



Can anyone refer me to a discussion of the relative stability of dialect compon

ents (phonology, morphology, lexicon) when speakers move to new dialect areas?

 For example, if someone from, say, Mobile, AL were to move to Duluth, MN, whic

h aspects of the speaker's dialect would change quickest, and which would be mo

st resistant to change? I realize that this question assumes the dialect will

change, and also that the answer may depend on any number of psycho-social fact

ors (such as which features of the original dialect the speaker identifies with

 the most/least), but have any empirical studies been done that say, for exampl

e, lexicon changes most readily (to facilitate communication), morphology chang

es almost as fast (since "incorrect" grammar is heavily stigmatized), and pronu

nciation changes most slowly (since it doesn't often impede communication, and

isn't stigmatized nearly as heavily as grammar)? Again: Does anyone have a re

ference for such a discussion? Thanks in advance.



              --Tom Murray  TEM[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]KSUVM.KSU.EDU 



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 17 Jan 1996 10:18:02 -0500

From:  Ronald Butters  amspeech[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ACPUB.DUKE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Denny's question reformulated



The term FAMILY RESTAURANT (and all compounds of the form FAMILY [noun])

strike me as rather too "right-wing-politically-correct" in that the term

FAMILY has been

appropriated by ultra-right-wing propagandists who use it bash gays and

lesbians and artists with whom they disagree. I realize that FAMILY is

used as a kind of synonym for SIMPLE or UNSOPHISTICATED and also sometime

to convey the notion that children are welcome, but I tend to avoid

establishments that advertise themselves as FAMILY X because I feel

excluded unless I go in with my grandchildren. The chief characteristic

of fast-food restaurants is that they purvey fast food. So that is what I

call them: FAST-FOOD RESTAURANTS. If I want to include DENNYS and SHONIES

the like, I say CHAIN restaurants.



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 17 Jan 1996 10:12:20 CST

From:  Joan Hall  jdhall[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU 

Subject: Re: Piggin (Bucket)



Terry,



DARE has lots of written evidence for "piggin," but only three instances

from Informants. One was from an old Massachusetts Inf, one an old SC Inf,

and another (age unknown) from Virginia. There's lots of historical

evidence from New England and the South Midland, with most of the 20th

century quotes from the South Midland and some from coastal south. Bill

Kretzschmar's data from LAMSAS show a nice isogloss for "piggin," with most

of the responses occurring in Georgia. If you are interested in the written

citations, let me know and I'll have them Xeroxed for you.



Joan



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 17 Jan 1996 10:27:54 -0600

From:  Rick Arons  RARONS[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]TINY.COMPUTING.CSBSJU.EDU 

Subject: Re: A Query



Re: Dialect change. See if Thomason & Kaufman, Language contact, creolization,

and genetic linguistics, has anything for you. It deals with languages, not

dialects, but I'm sure some of the same constructs could apply.



Rick Arons

St. John's University

Collegeville, MN







"You see, ... it's really quite strenuous doing nothing

all day, so once a week we take a holiday and go nowhere,

which was just where we were going when you came along."



                    -N. Juster



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 17 Jan 1996 12:20:35 EST

From:  Undetermined origin c/o LISTSERV maintainer

      owner-LISTSERV[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UGA.CC.UGA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Denny's question reformulated



To me, "family restaurant" suggests not a fast-food place like

MacDonald's, but a place serving what I think of as vaguely

old-fashioned American food (they should do a good meatloaf,

for example, and have pie for dessert) and to which you wouldn't

go on a date because there'd be too much noise. (You might go

there with a spouse, but not to court.) And "family style" means

you're sharing your food, instead of each ordering different

things. This can be a way of ordering in a Chinese restaurant,

or it can apply to some restaurants in the Pennsylvania Dutch

country, where you tell them how many people you have in your

group, and they show you seats, and food starts appearing--the

bill is per person, regardless of whether you personally ate the

ham, or took thirds on the fried chicken, or decided you wanted

lemonade.



Vicki Rosenzweig

vr%acmcr.uucp[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]murphy.com | rosenzweig[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]acm.org

New York, NY



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 17 Jan 1996 13:54:00 -0500

From:  "J. Chambers"  chambers[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]EPAS.UTORONTO.CA 

Subject: Re: A Query



Sheepishly, Ihave to suggest that you might check an article of mine

on the retention and loss of dialect features. The article is called

"Dialect acquisition," Language 68 (1992): 673-705. Based on an

emoirical study of the children of 2 Canadian families who moved to

the south of England, and supported by everything comparable I could

find in the literature, I formulated 8 principles of dialect

acquisition. Most of them seem directly relevant to Tom's queries. (1)

Lexical reppalcements are acquired faster than pronunciation and

phonological variants; and (7) eliminating old rules occurs more

rapidly than acquiring new ones. The principles are stated as

explicitly as possible and should be testable by further studies.

                    Jack Chambers



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 17 Jan 1996 14:09:52 -0600

From:  "Kathleen M. O'Neill"  koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UIC.EDU 

Subject: Flaming



Anyone know the etymology of the term "flaming"

as it applies to homosexuals?



Just curious.



;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

;Kathleen M. O'Neill ... Language Laboratory Technician I  ;

;koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uic.edu ... u55354[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uicvm.cc.uic.edu        ;

;:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::;

;University of Illinois at Chicago ... Language Laboratory ;

;703 South Morgan Street (M/C 042) ... Grant Hall, Room 311 ;

;Chicago, IL 60607-7025                  ;

;312.996.8838 or 8836 ... 312.996.5501 FAX        ;

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 17 Jan 1996 13:54:26 -0800

From:  Dan Moonhawk Alford  dalford[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]S1.CSUHAYWARD.EDU 

Subject: Re: Denny's question reformulated



Out west here in Nevada and Northern California, especially San

Francisco, you can add Basque restaurants to that list of group dining.



  And "family style" means

  you're sharing your food, instead of each ordering different

  things. This can be a way of ordering in a Chinese restaurant,

  or it can apply to some restaurants in the Pennsylvania Dutch

  country, where you tell them how many people you have in your

  group, and they show you seats, and food starts appearing--the

  bill is per person, regardless of whether you personally ate the

  ham, or took thirds on the fried chicken, or decided you wanted

  lemonade.

 

  Vicki Rosenzweig

  vr%acmcr.uucp[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]murphy.com | rosenzweig[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]acm.org

  New York, NY

 



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 17 Jan 1996 19:24:41 CST

From:  mlbroom[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SAUMAG.EDU

Subject: Re: Denny's question reformulated



Yes, I agree, CHAIN restaurant came to mind.  Marla



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 17 Jan 1996 20:29:20 EST

From:  Terry Lynn Irons  t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MOREHEAD-ST.EDU 

Subject: Re: A Query



In addition to the Chamber's article on acquisition of a new dialect, you

might consider looking at parts of Labov's Principles of Linguistic

Change that cover the work of J. Roberts, who looks at the acquisition the

Philadelphia dialect by people who migrate to Philadelphia. The focus is

on phonology.



Some of her work makes clear that age when migrating is crucial,

particularly in relation to acquiring the phonology.



Terry Irons

 --

(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)

Terry Lynn Irons    t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]morehead-st.edu

Voice Mail:       (606) 783-5164

Snail Mail:       UPO 604 Morehead, KY 40351

(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 16 Jan 1996 to 17 Jan 1996

************************************************





There are 15 messages totalling 322 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. A Query

 2. Fwd: Born today: Roget

 3. Piggin (Bucket) -Reply (2)

 4. Theatre/ -er -Reply

 5. "street arab" (2)

 6. Qs: NPR Pronunciation

 7. Theatre/ -er (2)

 8. The Rat Pack is a rodent lighter (3)

 9. Flaming

 10. A rodent lighter



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 18 Jan 1996 08:16:19 -0500

From:  "Dennis R. Preston"  preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PILOT.MSU.EDU 

Subject: Re: A Query



Paul Kerswill's Dialects Converging, Oxford Univ. Press (especially Chapter

6) looks at different linguistic levels and the degree of accommodation

rural migrants (to Bergen, Norway) make. Although morpho-lexical stuff is

'easier' to acquire than pohonology, the acquisition of phonological

factors (even after age 16) is greater than that suggested in some of the

other literature cited here so far.





 In addition to the Chamber's article on acquisition of a new dialect, you

 might consider looking at parts of Labov's Principles of Linguistic

 Change that cover the work of J. Roberts, who looks at the acquisition the

 Philadelphia dialect by people who migrate to Philadelphia. The focus is

 on phonology.

 

 Some of her work makes clear that age when migrating is crucial,

 particularly in relation to acquiring the phonology.

 

 Terry Irons

  --

 (*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)

 Terry Lynn Irons    t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]morehead-st.edu

 Voice Mail:       (606) 783-5164

 Snail Mail:       UPO 604 Morehead, KY 40351

 (*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)



Dennis R. Preston

Department of Linguistics and Languages

Michigan State University

preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]pilot.msu.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 18 Jan 1996 09:09:58 -0400

From:  Barnhart  Barnhart[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HIGHLANDS.COM 

Subject: Fwd: Born today: Roget



Born January 18, 1779: Peter Mark Roget. English writer and physician. He

was for many years secretary of the Royal Society. His chief work is the

notable _Thesaurus of English Words and Phrases_ (1852), a work for which he

collected material for 50 years, and which has been revised and reprinted many

times since its first appearance.



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 18 Jan 1996 09:16:53 -0500

From:  Molly Dickmeyer  dickmeye[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JBLSMTP.PHL.LRPUB.COM 

Subject: Re: Piggin (Bucket) -Reply



My grandfather (in PA Appalachians) reserved ``piggin'' for the

buckets he made to collect sap from maple trees. He also whittled the

spouts, so they had a doohickey (technical term) on top to hold the

bucket at a bit of an angle so it was a bit quicker to pour the sap

into the big buckets he carried on either end of a yoke. Wish I could

draw a thumbnail sketch on e-mail. This is the only type of usage I

ever heard, as opposed to the broader container definitions others

are posting from DARE research.



Molly

dickmeye[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]phl.lrpub.com



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 18 Jan 1996 09:21:48 -0500

From:  Molly Dickmeyer  dickmeye[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JBLSMTP.PHL.LRPUB.COM 

Subject: Re: Theatre/ -er -Reply



We are forgetting the difference between nouns and proper nouns,

especially trade names. Does anyone want to make a case for Webster's

including `Toys' and `Us' with a backward `s' and `r' as an

alternate spelling for `are'? The only common usage of the spelling

of theatre that I see is in proper names.



Molly

dickmeyer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]phl.lrpub.com



    Dale F.Coye  CoyeCFAT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM  1/16/96, 05:04pm    

Reading today's NY Times I noted that although the theatres

themselves use the -re ending, the Times editorial policy seems to be

to use -er in its copy.



Dale Coye



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 18 Jan 1996 07:29:17 PST

From:  "//www.usa.net/~ague"  ague[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]REDRCK.ENET.DEC.COM 

Subject: Re: Piggin (Bucket) -Reply



This may be way off the wall, but check Scandinavian, possibly Norwegian,

sources for the word 'piggen'.



While searching the WWW for piggin and piggen, I came across some text written

in a language that I couldn't read containing the words 'piggen' and 'piggens'.

The WWW pages also contained illustrations for the constructions of five-sided

and a six-sided buckets.



-- Jim



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 18 Jan 1996 11:23:02 -0500

From:  "Winfield, Laurie"  lwinfield[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RINET.HUNTON.COM 

Subject: "street arab"



Upon seeing "urchin" used as a clue for "arab" in two cross-word puzzles

(one the NY Times), a friend asked me what the connection was, and whether

it was derogatory. I found "street arab" in Webster's 1981 New Collegiate

Dictionary, but it is not to be found in Webster's Unabridged from 1976. I

assume the nomadic life is the common thread but would welcome correction.

 Main question is, isn't this a derogatory term and, if so, why is it not

marked as offensive or pejorative in the dictionary? Also, why would it be

listed in the smaller, later dictionary and not in the larger, earlier one?

 Seems to buck the PC trend.

Best regards.



Laurie Winfield

lwinfield[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]hunton.com



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 18 Jan 1996 13:36:08 -0600

From:  "Kathleen M. O'Neill"  koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UIC.EDU 

Subject: Qs: NPR Pronunciation



This is forwarded from the linguist list.

It's a few days old, but I've been busy...



 Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 18:59:31 PST

 From: tfitz[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]emh1.tic.bismarck.nd.us (Thomas Fitzsimmons)

 Subject: NPR Pronunciation

 

 I listen to National Public Radio in the morning for the news, and have

 noticed some peculiar pronunciations. Can anyone tell me if these are

 local oddities, or are they spreading?

 

  "O" pronounced as the diphthong "AO", as in local="laocal."

 

  "A" pronounced as "eye", as in today="to-dye," with a distinct

   "creaking" sound for the "eye".

 

  Tom Fitzsimmons, Bismarck, North Dakota (not Dakaota)



;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

;Kathleen M. O'Neill ... Language Laboratory Technician I  ;

;koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uic.edu ... u55354[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uicvm.cc.uic.edu        ;

;:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::;

;University of Illinois at Chicago ... Language Laboratory ;

;703 South Morgan Street (M/C 042) ... Grant Hall, Room 311 ;

;Chicago, IL 60607-7025                  ;

;312.996.8838 or 8836 ... 312.996.5501 FAX        ;

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 18 Jan 1996 15:14:53 -0600

From:  Gerald Walton  vcgw[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SUNSET.BACKBONE.OLEMISS.EDU 

Subject: Re: Theatre/ -er



At 12:23 PM 1/16/96 -0600, Natalie Maynor wrote:

 I just pulled out my season ticket and noted "Starkville Community

 Theatre."



Formal name for our department is Theatre Arts. GWW



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 18 Jan 1996 15:32:33 CST

From:  Joan Hall  jdhall[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU 

Subject: Re: "street arab"



DARE has "arab" for a street urchin from 1911; the OED takes it back to

1848.



Joan Hall



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 18 Jan 1996 16:45:50 -0500

From:  Benjamin Barrett  Gogaku[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GNN.COM 

Subject: Re: The Rat Pack is a rodent lighter



 Date:     Thu, 18 Jan 1996 15:19:00 +0900

 From: KIM  PAF02466[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NIFTYSERVE.OR.JP 



 Here's a passage that's got me puzzled:

 

   New Year's is a time to stand back and take stock (or divest, if you

   happened to have bought shares of Caere Corp. in the past six months).

   The Rat Pack is another rodent lighter, and luckless taxpayers are still

   waiting for the gates to open at Yellowstone and the immigration office.

 

 Could someone please tell me what's a rodent lighter? An upsized version

 of those Gokiburi Hoi Hois or something?



A lighter is a large flat-bottomed boat to carry cargo over short distances

or between cargo ships and docks. (American Heritage). Assumedly, there's

also a pun on the year of the rat and the pack of rats in Washington, DC.



yoroshiku

Benjamin Barrett



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 18 Jan 1996 18:59:18 -0400

From:  "E. Wayles Browne"  ewb2[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CORNELL.EDU 

Subject: Re: The Rat Pack is a rodent lighter



  Date:     Thu, 18 Jan 1996 15:19:00 +0900

  From: KIM  PAF02466[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NIFTYSERVE.OR.JP 

 

  Here's a passage that's got me puzzled:

  

    New Year's is a time to stand back and take stock (or divest, if you

    happened to have bought shares of Caere Corp. in the past six months).

    The Rat Pack is another rodent lighter, and luckless taxpayers are still

    waiting for the gates to open at Yellowstone and the immigration office.

  

  Could someone please tell me what's a rodent lighter?



Maybe I'm literal-minded, but I think it means 'is, once again,

 lighter by one rodent' = 'has lost another one of its members'.





Wayles Browne, Assoc. Prof. of Linguistics

Morrill Hall, Cornell University

Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A.

tel. 607-255-0712 (o), 607-273-3009 (h)

fax 607-255-2044 (write FOR W. BROWNE)

e-mail ewb2[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cornell.edu (1989 to 1993 was: jn5j[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cornella.bitnet //

jn5j[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cornella.cit.cornell.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 18 Jan 1996 22:09:51 -0500

From:  Ronald Butters  amspeech[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ACPUB.DUKE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Flaming



On Wed, 17 Jan 1996, Kathleen M. O'Neill wrote:



  Anyone know the etymology of the term "flaming"

  as it applies to homosexuals?

 

  Just curious.

 

  ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

  ;Kathleen M. O'Neill ... Language Laboratory Technician I  ;

  ;:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::;

  ;University of Illinois at Chicago ... Language Laboratory ;

  ;703 South Morgan Street (M/C 042) ... Grant Hall, Room 311 ;

  ;Chicago, IL 60607-7025                  ;

  ;312.996.8838 or 8836 ... 312.996.5501 FAX        ;



The idea of 'heat' is often associated with male homosexual acts, e.g.,

the common German term is SCHWUL, derived (as I recall) from a phrase

meaning 'hot brothers'. It was, I believe, Andy Warhol who made a movie

in the 1960s (?) called FLAMING CREATURES with a queer theme. Bruce

Rodgers in THE QUEENS' VERNACULAR: A GAY LEXICON (1972) does not list

FLAMING, but he does list FLAME (IT UP), which he defines as 'to

overemphasize, often deliberately, . . . the effeminate." He derives it

(or maybe just associates it--it is hard to tell) from/with the phrase

TURN UP THE FLAME (which he dates from 1972; I'm sure FLAME is much

older). He lists CAMP as a synonym.



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 18 Jan 1996 23:20:44 -0500

From:  Jeutonne Brewer  brewerj[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NR.INFI.NET 

Subject: Re: The Rat Pack is a rodent lighter



In this context I think the Rat Pack refers to the group that included

Frank Sinatra, Sammy Davis, Jr., and Dean Martin. The Rat Pack is

another rodent lighter after the death of Dean Martin.



 Here's a passage that's got me puzzled:

 

   New Year's is a time to stand back and take stock (or divest, if you

   happened to have bought shares of Caere Corp. in the past six months).

   The Rat Pack is another rodent lighter, and luckless taxpayers are still

   waiting for the gates to open at Yellowstone and the immigration office.

 

 Could someone please tell me what's a rodent lighter?

 



**************************************************

* jpbrewer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]hamlet.uncg.edu           *

*   Department of English           *

*   University of North Carolina at Greensboro *

*   Greensboro, NC 17412            *

* brewerj[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]iris.uncg.edu             *

* brewerj[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]fagan.uncg.edu            *

* brewerj[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nr.infi.net              *

**************************************************



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 18 Jan 1996 21:33:24 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Theatre/ -er



Just thought I'd check our campus phone directory, and under the front

listing of "Frequently called numbers", the heading  Theater  is used,

with an entry for the  Gallagher Theater . However, under departmental

listings,  Theatre Arts  is given, under which is  Gallagher Theatre .

Looks like the British blight has reached the Southwest, yet.

    --Rudy Troike (rtroike[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccit.arizona.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 18 Jan 1996 21:40:18 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: A rodent lighter



This proves that ADS-ers are more ivory-towerites than one would have thought.

Watch Jerry Lewis' tribute to Dean Martin to find the answer.

    Rudy



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 17 Jan 1996 to 18 Jan 1996

************************************************





There are 13 messages totalling 335 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. The Rat Pack is a rodent lighter (2)

 2. rat pack (2)

 3. Flaming

 4. X come Y

 5. More McX

 6. Family restaurant

 7. go postal (3)

 8. Grants available to travel overseas

 9. Denny's question reformulated



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 18 Jan 1996 23:59:58 EST

From:  Larry Horn  LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU 

Subject: Re: The Rat Pack is a rodent lighter



 Sender:    American Dialect Society  ADS-L[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UGA.CC.UGA.EDU 

 From:     Jeutonne Brewer  brewerj[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NR.INFI.NET 

 Subject:   Re: The Rat Pack is a rodent lighter

 To:      Multiple recipients of list ADS-L  ADS-L[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UGA.CC.UGA.EDU 

 

 In this context I think the Rat Pack refers to the group that included

 Frank Sinatra, Sammy Davis, Jr., and Dean Martin. The Rat Pack is

 another rodent lighter after the death of Dean Martin.



Aw shucks. I suppose there's no point sending away for my rodent lighter,

then?





Larry



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 19 Jan 1996 00:41:59 -0500

From:  Ronald Butters  amspeech[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ACPUB.DUKE.EDU 

Subject: rat pack



   Here's a passage that's got me puzzled:

   

     New Year's is a time to stand back and take stock (or divest, if you

     happened to have bought shares of Caere Corp. in the past six months).

     The Rat Pack is another rodent lighter, and luckless taxpayers are

still

     waiting for the gates to open at Yellowstone and the immigration

office.

   

   Could someone please tell me what's a rodent lighter? An upsized version

   of those Gokiburi Hoi Hois or something?

 

  A lighter is a large flat-bottomed boat to carry cargo over short distances

  or between cargo ships and docks. (American Heritage). Assumedly, there's

  also a pun on the year of the rat and the pack of rats in Washington, DC.

 

  yoroshiku

  Benjamin Barrett



"The Rat Pack" was the name given inthe 1960s (or earlier?) to a bunch of

Hollywood playmates that included Dean Martin, Sammy Davis Junior, and

Frank Sinatra. I assume that the "rodent" is Dean Martin, who died this

year. Indeed, Sinatra (age 80) may be the only rat left. (?)



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 19 Jan 1996 08:05:43 -0500

From:  David Muschell  dmuschel[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAIL.GAC.PEACHNET.EDU 

Subject: Re: The Rat Pack is a rodent lighter



  Sender:    American Dialect Society  ADS-L[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UGA.CC.UGA.EDU 

  From:     Jeutonne Brewer  brewerj[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NR.INFI.NET 

  Subject:   Re: The Rat Pack is a rodent lighter

  To:      Multiple recipients of list ADS-L  ADS-L[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UGA.CC.UGA.EDU 

  

  In this context I think the Rat Pack refers to the group that included

  Frank Sinatra, Sammy Davis, Jr., and Dean Martin. The Rat Pack is

  another rodent lighter after the death of Dean Martin.

 

 Aw shucks. I suppose there's no point sending away for my rodent lighter,

 then?

 

 

 Larry



In a ritualistic tradition among the Umparkans, a Laplander tribe,

springtime sees the young of the village go on rodent hunts. One of the

unlucky vermin is later sacrificed on a bonfire to celebrate the coming

thaw. It has been said that the glow of beady eyes is sometimes seen in

the shadowy darkness as the cremated fellow's pack members say their final

farewell to their departed "tundra-brother."



(Couldn't resist.)



David



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 19 Jan 1996 09:05:10 -0500

From:  Jesse T Sheidlower  jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PANIX.COM 

Subject: Re: Flaming



Ron Butters wrote:

  On Wed, 17 Jan 1996, Kathleen M. O'Neill wrote:

 

    Anyone know the etymology of the term "flaming"

    as it applies to homosexuals?

 

  The idea of 'heat' is often associated with male homosexual acts, e.g.,

  the common German term is SCHWUL, derived (as I recall) from a phrase

  meaning 'hot brothers'. It was, I believe, Andy Warhol who made a movie

  in the 1960s (?) called FLAMING CREATURES with a queer theme. Bruce

  Rodgers in THE QUEENS' VERNACULAR: A GAY LEXICON (1972) does not list

  FLAMING, but he does list FLAME (IT UP), which he defines as 'to

  overemphasize, often deliberately, . . . the effeminate." He derives it

  (or maybe just associates it--it is hard to tell) from/with the phrase

  TURN UP THE FLAME (which he dates from 1972; I'm sure FLAME is much

  older). He lists CAMP as a synonym.



The earliest example we have found in the Random House Historical

Dictionary of American Slang is from Gershon Legman's homosexual

glossary in Henry's Sexual Variations: _Flaming queen,_ a homosexual

who attempts to...attract attention and drum up trade. This is

from 1941. Our next examples are from 1958-9 and 1969. (This is for

_flaming_ '(of a homosexual, esp. a man) blatant or conspicuous'.)



Jesse Sheidlower

Random House Reference

 jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]panix.com 



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 19 Jan 1996 06:44:50 PST

From:  "//www.usa.net/~ague"  ague[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]REDRCK.ENET.DEC.COM 

Subject: Re: rat pack



 "The Rat Pack" was the name given inthe 1960s (or earlier?) to a bunch of

 Hollywood playmates that included Dean Martin, Sammy Davis Junior, and

 Frank Sinatra. I assume that the "rodent" is Dean Martin, who died this

 year. Indeed, Sinatra (age 80) may be the only rat left. (?)



There were at least two others, Joey Bishop and Peter Lawford. Since I saw

Bishop give an interview after Martin's death, I presume he's still alive.



-- Jim



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 19 Jan 1996 10:33:47 -0500

From:  "Bethany K. Dumas"  dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKUX.UTCC.UTK.EDU 

Subject: X come Y



Twice recently on email lists, I have seen the construction "X come Y"

where I would have expected "X cum Y." The most recent example comes from

Anglican: "the simple Galilean handyman come preacher." When I queried

the first author about his use of "come" instead of "cum" he said that he

thought that "cum" triggered sexual connotations (ejaculate) that the

spelling "come" did not and that he used the spelling "come" for that

reason. (I think the author was a Canadian--I'll check my files to be

sure.)



The second author (of the above example) is an Anglican priest in

Australia. I have queried him, but have not had a response yet.



I have 2 questions:



1. Is this apparent Anglicization usual and customary? I don't recall

seeing it beore seeing these two examples.



2. Is the Anglicization widespread through the English-speaking world?



Thanks,

Bethany

Bethany K. Dumas, J.D., Ph.D.  | Applied Linguistics, Language & Law

Dep't of English, UT, Knoxville | EMAIL: dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu

415 McClung Tower        | (423) 974-6965 | FAX (423) 974-6926

Knoxville, TN 37996-0430    | See Webpage at http://hamlet.la.utk.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 19 Jan 1996 11:45:01 -0500

From:  "Bethany K. Dumas"  dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKUX.UTCC.UTK.EDU 

Subject: More McX



from the list Anglican:



 I'm curious: when I first was received into the Episcopal Church in 1987

 our rector used real bread at the Eucharist. Now sad to say the body of

 the sacrament is those horrible yucky wheat paste wafers (is this the

 Bread of Heaven? I'm not going then). Is there a canon anywhere that

 specifies leavened vs unleavened or palatable vs plastic bread at the

 Eucharist? A deacon told me two weeks ago that the wafers were easier to

 count and didn't spoil.



I don't like Jesus McNugget either.



Bethany

Bethany K. Dumas, J.D., Ph.D.  | Applied Linguistics, Language & Law

Dep't of English, UT, Knoxville | EMAIL: dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu

415 McClung Tower        | (423) 974-6965 | FAX (423) 974-6926

Knoxville, TN 37996-0430    | See Webpage at http://hamlet.la.utk.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 19 Jan 1996 14:40:47 -0500

From:  Benjamin Barrett  Gogaku[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GNN.COM 

Subject: Re: Family restaurant



 Date:     Tue, 16 Jan 1996 06:57:57 +0900

 From: Jeremy Whipple  jwhipple[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GOL.COM 



 Does "family restaurant" convey the same meaning as _famirii resutoran_? If

 not, how might one render the latter in English?



Though probably too late for Jeremy, I got answers from the American Dialect

Society e-mail list members. As people who posted seemed to agree "family

restaurant" is okay, I waited until everything was in to post the answers.

Eight people responded.



Amusingly to me, I used Denny's as an example, but about 50% or more of the

respondents said family restaurant is okay, but I wouldn't apply it to

Denny's/I wouldn't take my family there, etc. !)



Family-style was seen by a few to be like Chinese or Basque where the food

is served in the middle of the table, and everyone grabs.



This seems to be one of those cases, as one person mentioned, where a

generic term is used in Japanese (suupaa for grocery store/supermarket), but

the name of the place is used in English (Safeway, etc.) and the generic

term is lost or buried.



Thanks to the respondents (in my computer's mixed up order):

Natalie Maynor

Beth Lee Simon

Bethany Dumas

Gregory Roberts

Ronald Butters

Vicki Rosenzweig

Dan Moonhawk Alford

Marla Broom



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 19 Jan 1996 14:39:56 EST

From:  Sonja Lanehart  LANEHART[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UGA.CC.UGA.EDU 

Subject: go postal



In my introduction to the English language class today we were talking

about ways to create new words. I mentioned "go postal" in the course

of the discussion. At the end of class one of my students said that

(went) postal was said in the movie "Clueless" by one of the characters.

Apparently the person who said it in the movie is the lady in an Aero-

smith video. Her name is Alisha (sp) ?stone. Anyway, I told my student

I would mention it for those who were questioning its existence.



***********************************************************************

Sonja L. Lanehart

Dept. of English (300 Park Hall)   Phone:  (706) 542-2260

University of Georgia        Fax:   (706) 542-2181

Athens, GA 30602-6205        E-mail: Lanehart[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu

***********************************************************************



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 19 Jan 1996 14:50:44 EST

From:  Kev  krkefg01[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MOREHEAD-ST.EDU 

Subject: Re: go postal



The actress that you're looking for here is Alicia Silverstone. Actually,

the movie Clueless is packed with different phrases that are a sort of

cross between Valley Girl and the guy from Raising Arizona. That is,

words that seem extremely out of place coming from the character that is

using them.



Just thought I'd try to help!



--

Thanks for reading!

KVK III



"I was born in the back seat of a

 Greyhound bus,

 Rollin' down Highway 41."

    The Allman Brothers



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 19 Jan 1996 16:03:46 -0500

From:  Jesse T Sheidlower  jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PANIX.COM 

Subject: Re: go postal



 

  In my introduction to the English language class today we were talking

  about ways to create new words. I mentioned "go postal" in the course

  of the discussion. At the end of class one of my students said that

  (went) postal was said in the movie "Clueless" by one of the characters.

  Apparently the person who said it in the movie is the lady in an Aero-

  smith video. Her name is Alisha (sp) ?stone. Anyway, I told my student

  I would mention it for those who were questioning its existence.



That would be Alicia Silverstone. The expression occurs twice in

the script (details included for those who like such ephemera):



1994 A. Heckerling _Clueless_ (Green script revision 11/29/94,

p. 11): CHER You get your report card? DIONNE O.S. Yeah, I'm

toast, you'll never see me out of the house again. How'd you do?

CHER God, I totally choked. My father's going to go postal on me.



1994 A. Heckerling _Clueless_ (Green script revision 11/29/94,

p. 103A): CHER V.O. Like Josh thinking I was mean or something,

was making me postal, which didn't improve my driving skills.



Best,



Jesse "Cites R Us" Sheidlower

Random House Reference

 jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]panix.com 



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 19 Jan 1996 16:15:29 EST

From:  David Bergdahl  BERGDAHL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU 

Subject: Re: Grants available to travel overseas



From:  NAME: David Bergdahl

    FUNC: English

    TEL: (614) 593-2783           BERGDAHL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]A1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]LANCE 

To:   MX%"ADS-L[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu"[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAX[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MRGATE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAX



Notice that for grants overseas travel must take place between 6/1/96 & 5/31/97



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 19 Jan 1996 17:52:32 -0700

From:  William King  WFKING[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Denny's question reformulated



There is/was a Basque restaurant in Gustine that served a minimum of

10 or so (7 big, big eaters, 10 big eaters, 15 to 25...) that served

a meat dish along the lines of a full ham, a full-sized turkey, etc.

You bought the entire meal to go with it, but it was essentially a

restaurant with a fixed price for the entire meal. There may have been

an additional plate charge for dainty eaters. I can't recall.

Oh, Gustine is in California west of Merced. Dan Moonhawk's posting

came across the screen as I was thinking of this.

By entire meal, I mean per party, not per person.

Bill King



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 18 Jan 1996 to 19 Jan 1996

************************************************





There are 4 messages totalling 74 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. go postal (2)

 2. Grants available to travel overseas

 3. X come Y



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 20 Jan 1996 00:45:38 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: go postal



Jesse,

    The _Clueless_ quotes were great to have. Where did you find them?

Are film scripts accessible online, or does Random House just happen to

have its own collection?

    --Rudy Troike (rtroike[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccit.arizona.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 20 Jan 1996 10:25:09 -0500

From:  Jesse T Sheidlower  jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PANIX.COM 

Subject: Re: go postal



      The _Clueless_ quotes were great to have. Where did you find them?

  Are film scripts accessible online, or does Random House just happen to

  have its own collection?



Neither, unfortunately. I have a friend you used to work for

Scott Rudin, the producer, and he got me a copy. It's extremely

helpful; there's tons of things I would have missed if I had

only seen the movie. As it is I must have gotten 100 cites from

the script.



If you need anything from that script, I'd be happy to find it for you.



Jesse Sheidlower

 jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]panix.com 



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 20 Jan 1996 15:57:06 EST

From:  Beth Lee Simon  simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Grants available to travel overseas



Is anything available for overseas conference, March, 1996?



beth



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 20 Jan 1996 17:04:15 -0800

From:  Dan Moonhawk Alford  dalford[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]S1.CSUHAYWARD.EDU 

Subject: Re: X come Y



On Fri, 19 Jan 1996, Bethany K. Dumas wrote:



  Twice recently on email lists, I have seen the construction "X come Y"

  where I would have expected "X cum Y." The most recent example comes from

  Anglican: "the simple Galilean handyman come preacher." When I queried

  the first author about his use of "come" instead of "cum" he said that he

  thought that "cum" triggered sexual connotations (ejaculate) that the

  spelling "come" did not and that he used the spelling "come" for that

  reason. (I think the author was a Canadian--I'll check my files to be

  sure.)

 

  The second author (of the above example) is an Anglican priest in

  Australia. I have queried him, but have not had a response yet.

 

  I have 2 questions:

 

  1. Is this apparent Anglicization usual and customary? I don't recall

  seeing it beore seeing these two examples.

 

  2. Is the Anglicization widespread through the English-speaking world?



or 3. Is it possible that the spelling 'come' is a tortured attempt to

come to grips with a medium which by its nature does not allow us to spell

'cum' in ITALICS?!! I guess people could still do _cum_.



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 19 Jan 1996 to 20 Jan 1996

************************************************





There are 3 messages totalling 44 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. _Clueless_

 2. 1920s (Jazz Age) slang

 3. Roll over, sparrow grass...



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 20 Jan 1996 21:25:32 -0800

From:  Kim & Rima McKinzey  rkm[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SLIP.NET 

Subject: Re: _Clueless_



Jesse,

I haven't seen _Clueless_, though I know it got decent reviews. I just

heard, however, that it's a sort of version/adaptation/something of Jane

Austin's _Emma_. Is this so? It is now available on video. Worthwhile?



Rima



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 21 Jan 1996 17:28:00 -0500

From:  Fraser Sutherland  frasers[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]THE-WIRE.COM 

Subject: 1920s (Jazz Age) slang



Does anyone know of a dictionary or compendium of 1920s (Jazz Age) slang?

Thanks.



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 21 Jan 1996 21:56:53 EST

From:  Larry Horn  LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU 

Subject: Roll over, sparrow grass...



...and give Elephant & Castle (not to mention the 4-stair furnace) the news.

Tired of trotting out those same tired examples of loss of transparency/folk

etymology/reanalysis? Try this one on for size:



  "Meanwhile, Richard Parker Bowles, brother of Camilla's ex-husband,

 Andrew, said that from the beginning Camilla approved of Charles'

 marrying Diana while she remained his power mower."

                Richmond Times-Dispatch, quoted in

                 New Yorker, 1.22/95, p. 83

Let me be your power mower/

Till your push mower comes home?



OK, it's too nonce to qualify for WOTY. But maybe it'll catch on.



Larry



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 20 Jan 1996 to 21 Jan 1996

************************************************





There are 15 messages totalling 328 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Roll over, sparrow grass...

 2. _Clueless_ (2)

 3. 1920s (Jazz Age) slang (3)

 4. Clueless

 5. minute rice second

 6. ADS January newsletter

 7. why no right field? (4)

 8. Call for abstracts/proposals for ADS session at MMLA

 9. street slang



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 21 Jan 1996 22:01:05 -0700

From:  William King  WFKING[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Roll over, sparrow grass...



I wonder whether that was gender specific ten years ago.

No need to sledge hammer it home.

Bill



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 22 Jan 1996 09:18:06 -0500

From:  Jesse T Sheidlower  jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PANIX.COM 

Subject: Re: _Clueless_



  I haven't seen _Clueless_, though I know it got decent reviews. I just

  heard, however, that it's a sort of version/adaptation/something of Jane

  Austin's _Emma_. Is this so? It is now available on video. Worthwhile?



The plot is loosely based on _Emma,_ though you probably wouldn't

realize it unless your were told or were a big Austen fan. Most

people I know think it was fantastic. I enjoyed it a lot, but had

already read the script when I saw it so didn't appreciate it as

much. But it's certainly worth seeing, esp. on video.



Jesse Sheidlower

 jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]panix.com 



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 22 Jan 1996 09:23:57 -0500

From:  Jesse T Sheidlower  jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PANIX.COM 

Subject: Re: 1920s (Jazz Age) slang



  Does anyone know of a dictionary or compendium of 1920s (Jazz Age) slang?

  Thanks.



I don't believe there is one. In fact, a chronological slang thesaurus

is a reference work that needs to be done. But if you can do with

later jazz slang, try Cab Calloway's _New Cab Calloway's Hepsters

Dictionary,_ Dan Burley's _Handbook of Harlem Jive,_ and the glossary

in Mezzrow & Wolfe's _Really the Blues._



Jesse Sheidlower

Random House Reference

 jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]panix.com 



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 22 Jan 1996 10:38:46 EST

From:  Steven Heffner  74754.517[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]COMPUSERVE.COM 

Subject: Clueless



  The plot is loosely based on _Emma,_ though you probably wouldn't

realize it unless your were told or were a big Austen fan. Most

people I know think it was fantastic. I enjoyed it a lot, but had

already read the script when I saw it so didn't appreciate it as

much. But it's certainly worth seeing, esp. on video.  



I disagree that "The plot is loosely based on Emma." It follows the plot of Emma

meticulously; it's the setting that is loose to say the least. I loved it.



Steven Heffner



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 22 Jan 1996 10:17:51 +0100

From:  debaron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UIUC.EDU

Subject: Re: _Clueless_



Rima,



Yes to all your questions: it's Emma, it's worthwhile, it's on video.



Dennis



Dennis Baron                      debaron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uiuc.edu



Department of English             office: 217-333-2392

University of Illinois                fax: 217-333-4321

608 South Wright Street            home: 217-384-1683

Urbana, Illinois 61801



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 22 Jan 1996 11:27:42 -0500

From:  "Bethany K. Dumas"  dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKUX.UTCC.UTK.EDU 

Subject: minute rice second



Someone on another list used a time-phrase new to me:



Tell me where it can be found and I'll transfer my

    membership in a minute rice second.



I have previously known and used the phrases "Texas time" ("and [took] my

Texas time doing it") and "New York minute," but this one is new to me.

My correspondent thinks he picked it spending childhood summers in N.C.

Do others know it?



Bethany



Bethany K. Dumas, J.D., Ph.D.  | Applied Linguistics, Language & Law

Dep't of English, UT, Knoxville | EMAIL: dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu

415 McClung Tower        | (423) 974-6965 | FAX (423) 974-6926

Knoxville, TN 37996-0430    | See Webpage at http://hamlet.la.utk.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 22 Jan 1996 15:38:33 -0500

From:  Allan Metcalf  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: ADS January newsletter



In about a week, if the earth keep its accustomed orbit, the January issue of

the ADS newsletter will go to press. Notices of coming meetings, and other

matters of import, are welcome, if they arrive this week, preferably by

e-mail so they can be directly imported into the publication.

- Allan Metcalf, editor and ADS executive secretary  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com 



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 22 Jan 1996 14:55:17 CDT

From:  Randy Roberts  robertsr[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]EXT.MISSOURI.EDU 

Subject: Re: 1920s (Jazz Age) slang



   It might be helpful to look at the list of books and journal articles

   compiled by Robert Reisner on "The Literature of Jazz: A Preliminary

   Bibliography." Reisner's work was published in three successive

   issues of the Bulletin of The New York Public Library, volume 58,

   numbers 3-5, March-May 1954. It contains both U.S. and foreign works.

   A number of the works date from the 1920s and earlier.



   Randy Roberts

   University of Missouri

   robertsr[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ext.missouri.edu



______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________

Subject: 1920s (Jazz Age) slang

Author: American Dialect Society  ADS-L[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu  at internet-ext

Date:  1/21/96 4:25 PM





Does anyone know of a dictionary or compendium of 1920s (Jazz Age) slang?

Thanks.



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 22 Jan 1996 16:02:46 -0500

From:  Bob Foster  AmOptNews[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Re: 1920s (Jazz Age) slang



while we're on the subject, What is the origin of '23 Skiddoo'?



curious -- Bob Foster [AT SYMBOL GOES HERE] AmOptNews[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 22 Jan 1996 16:21:52 -0500

From:  Jerry Miller  millerj[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FRANKLINCOLL.EDU 

Subject: why no right field?



Anyone know the background of the expression "out of left field" or "from

left field," which would seem to have a baseball-related origin, but why

LEFT field, rather than, say, right field? Given the current political

connotations of left and right, it implies something unsavory (or weird)

about those on the political left, absent any "out of right field"

expression to label people like Rush Limbaugh, John Birch, et al (or at

least gives Rush and his crowd a loaded weapon the folks on the other side

don't have).

Just curious,



Jerry Miller

(out in center field at) Franklin College (Ind.)



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 22 Jan 1996 16:07:15 -0600

From:  "Kathleen M. O'Neill"  koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UIC.EDU 

Subject: Re: why no right field?



 Anyone know the background of the expression "out of left field" or "from

 left field," which would seem to have a baseball-related origin

 Jerry Miller



In vain, I consulted my favorite fun guide,

the Dictionary of American Idioms, by Adam Makkai.

Alas, he gives no etymology for the phrase,

only a definition (or two):



"out in left field adj. phr., informal

1 Far from the right answer; wrong; astray. ...

2 Speaking or acting very queerly; crazy...."



As far as folk etymologies go,

I can think of two possibilities:



1. From my softball days, I seem to recall that

in order to hit to left field, you had to swing late.

This could be done deliberately, if you knew you

could catch someone off-guard, say, or it could be

done out of lack of ability/confidence, etc.



2. In my experience, right field was always the

place where little league players were sent if they

weren't very good, because most little league

batters wouldn't hit out there. However, some

interpretations might allow for the "bad" player

to be in left field. Who knows?! ;)





;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

;Kathleen M. O'Neill ... Language Laboratory Technician I  ;

;koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uic.edu ... u55354[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uicvm.cc.uic.edu        ;

;:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::;

;University of Illinois at Chicago ... Language Laboratory ;

;703 South Morgan Street (M/C 042) ... Grant Hall, Room 311 ;

;Chicago, IL 60607-7025                  ;

;312.996.8838 or 8836 ... 312.996.5501 FAX        ;

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 22 Jan 1996 17:36:17 -0500

From:  Ronald Butters  amspeech[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ACPUB.DUKE.EDU 

Subject: Re: why no right field?



On Mon, 22 Jan 1996, Jerry Miller wrote:



 

  Anyone know the background of the expression "out of left field" or "from

  left field," which would seem to have a baseball-related origin, but why

  LEFT field, rather than, say, right field?



As I recall, the expression is actually "way out in left field" and

refers to the fact that the left field fence is farther away from home plate

in most ball parks than is right field. This, in turn,

stems from the fct that most ball players bat right handed, and hence

they tend to hit their longest balls to left field.



 Given the current political

  connotations of left and right, it implies something unsavory (or weird)

  about those on the political left, absent any "out of right field"

  expression to label people like Rush Limbaugh, John Birch, et al (or at

  least gives Rush and his crowd a loaded weapon the folks on the other side

  don't have).



Along with sinister, gauche, left-handed compliment,"left-handed" as a

euphemism for "homosexual," and the like. Many peoples use only the right

hand in eating,reserving the left for contact with genitals. We lefties

have always been discriminated against--like any minority. However, we

are as a group mentally superior to rilght-handed persons (and we tend

also tobe better-looking and more personable), which is (as I se it) the

REAL reason why French assigned the label to progressive (as opposed to

reactionary) politics.



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 22 Jan 1996 18:16:13 EST

From:  Beth Lee Simon  simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU 

Subject: Call for abstracts/proposals for ADS session at MMLA



In association with MMLA, Nov. 7-9, 1996

(Minneapolis Marriot City Center, Minneapolis, MN)



Call for abstracts for the ADS session



    "Current Trends in American Dialectology"



Submit up to 500 words by March 25, 1996, to

    Beth Lee Simon

    Dept. of English and Linguistics

    IPFW

    Fort Wayne, IN 46805



    simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cvax.ipfw.indiana.edu



(Whatever you are working on is a current trend.)



Beth Simon



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 22 Jan 1996 16:47:45 -0800

From:  Mary Bucholtz  bucholtz[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GARNET.BERKELEY.EDU 

Subject: street slang



I'm doing some pro bono work for a public defender, and I'd like to know

what the expression "break yourself" can mean, especially in its

use among African American urban youth (but other groups' use of it is

also important). I'd appreciate any citations anyone might have, including

music or pop culture attestations, as well as anything scholarly that may

have been written about it.



Thanks very much.



Mary Bucholtz

Department of Linguistics

University of California, Berkeley

bucholtz[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]garnet.berkeley.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 22 Jan 1996 22:10:14 EST

From:  Larry Horn  LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU 

Subject: Re: why no right field?



In addition to Ron's observations about the left field fence being further

back in sandlot ball (as opposed, e.g. to at Fenway Park) because of the

prevalence of right handed pull hitters, it's worth commenting in connection

with Kathleen's observation,



 1. From my softball days, I seem to recall that

 in order to hit to left field, you had to swing late.

 This could be done deliberately, if you knew you

 could catch someone off-guard, say, or it could be

 done out of lack of ability/confidence, etc.



that this point only holds if the batter is left-handed. A right-handed

hitter (i.e. the default value--not the NORMAL value, just the statistical

default, Ron; I hasten to add that one of my best spouses is a leftie)

would hit a ball to RIGHT on a late swing, which is why outfielders shift to

right for a fastball pitcher and/or a weak hitter, or when the batter has two

strikes and is presumed to be "protecting the plate".  I suspect Ron's

derivation of 'out of left field' from 'out in left field', as the deepest

part of the park, is on the mark.



Larry



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 21 Jan 1996 to 22 Jan 1996

************************************************





There are 10 messages totalling 303 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. out in left field (2)

 2. Left field/Right field

 3. WOTY: cybernate

 4. why no right field? (2)

 5. cheap folks (3)

 6. street slang



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 23 Jan 1996 10:50:50 +0000

From:  "E. W. Gilman"  egilman[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]M-W.COM 

Subject: out in left field



The origin of the phrase is obscure. Paul Dickson's Baseball

Dictionary mentions the phrase, but hazards no opinion of its origin.

Christine Ammer's dictionary of cliches, "Have A Nice Day", offers

three theories gleaned from William Safire. Two deal with distance,

either to the left field wall or to the left fielder, and one claims

that "in the Chicago Cubs' old ballpark" a mental hospital was

located just beyond left field (this seems pretty far-fetched).

Ammer says the phrase has been in use since about 1950, but cites

only a 1974 example. These dates reflect our files in a general way;

our earliest citation comes from 1956 and shows the phrase either not

fixed in form yet, or a very un-baseballish author: in a review of

"Waiting for Godot" Estragon is described as "a fellow out on left

field". A couple of years later an unidentified speaker (perhaps

Jack Benny) is quoted as saying "My so-called Allen feud came

strictly out of left field". I expected better evidence, but there

was a long-established disinterest in sports lingo back in those

days. The phrase begins appearing with "in" as the usual preposition

in the 1970s.



E.W.Gilman



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 23 Jan 1996 08:36:50 CDT

From:  Randy Roberts  robertsr[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]EXT.MISSOURI.EDU 

Subject: Left field/Right field



   Anyone interested in the term "out in left field" or in baseball,

   generally, should look at The Dickson Baseball Dictionary,

   (Facts-on-File, 1989). Paul Dickson has a wonderful entry on the

   etymology of out in left field (page 288). He notes two major

   theories. 1. an insult attached to kids who were stupid enough to buy

   left field seats in Yankee Stadium when Babe Ruth played in right

   field. 2. a reference to the old West Side Park in Chicago which had

   a mental hospital just behind the left field fence.



   Randy Roberts

   University of Missouri

   robertsr[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ext.missouri.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 23 Jan 1996 09:42:40 EST

From:  Larry Horn  LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU 

Subject: out in left field



To complete the file, underdetermined though the history may be, the following

citation should not go unmentioned:



  A. M. Zwicky, P. H. Salus, R. I. Binnick & A. L. Vanek (eds.),

   STUDIES OUT IN LEFT FIELD: DEFAMATORY ESSAYS PRESENTED TO JAMES D.

   McCAWLEY ON THE OCCASION OF HIS 33rd OR 33th BIRTHDAY. Edmonton:

   Linguistic Research, Inc., 1971. (Current Inquiry into Language &

   4.) [Recently reissued.]

----------------------------Original message----------------------------

The origin of the phrase is obscure. Paul Dickson's Baseball

Dictionary mentions the phrase, but hazards no opinion of its origin.

Christine Ammer's dictionary of cliches, "Have A Nice Day", offers

three theories gleaned from William Safire. Two deal with distance,

either to the left field wall or to the left fielder, and one claims

that "in the Chicago Cubs' old ballpark" a mental hospital was

located just beyond left field (this seems pretty far-fetched).

Ammer says the phrase has been in use since about 1950, but cites

only a 1974 example. These dates reflect our files in a general way;

our earliest citation comes from 1956 and shows the phrase either not

fixed in form yet, or a very un-baseballish author: in a review of

"Waiting for Godot" Estragon is described as "a fellow out on left

field". A couple of years later an unidentified speaker (perhaps

Jack Benny) is quoted as saying "My so-called Allen feud came

strictly out of left field". I expected better evidence, but there

was a long-established disinterest in sports lingo back in those

days. The phrase begins appearing with "in" as the usual preposition

in the 1970s.



E.W.Gilman



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 23 Jan 1996 07:13:56 PST

From:  "//www.usa.net/~ague"  ague[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]REDRCK.ENET.DEC.COM 

Subject: WOTY: cybernate



Never too early to submit an entry to the Word of the Year %^).



I spotted "cybernate" in an article in today's local newspaper written by a

Chicago Tribune reporter. The article described overcoming shyness by those

with a tendency to recluse to their computer, modem and online chat-groups.



-- Jim



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 23 Jan 1996 09:29:30 -0600

From:  "Kathleen M. O'Neill"  koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UIC.EDU 

Subject: Re: why no right field?



 it's worth commenting in connection

 with Kathleen's observation,

 

  1. From my softball days, I seem to recall that

  in order to hit to left field, you had to swing late.

 

 that this point only holds if the batter is left-handed.



You caught me. I totally forgot.

I _am_ a leftie hitter.



*blush*



;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

;Kathleen M. O'Neill ... Language Laboratory Technician I  ;

;koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uic.edu ... u55354[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uicvm.cc.uic.edu        ;

;:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::;

;University of Illinois at Chicago ... Language Laboratory ;

;703 South Morgan Street (M/C 042) ... Grant Hall, Room 311 ;

;Chicago, IL 60607-7025                  ;

;312.996.8838 or 8836 ... 312.996.5501 FAX        ;

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 23 Jan 1996 16:13:30 -0600

From:  Shana Walton  swalton[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OCEAN.ST.USM.EDU 

Subject: cheap folks



    Did any other people grow up hearing the pronunciation

    /chIn'-chi/ for the word "chintzy," meaning 'stingy', rather than

    /chIn(t)-si/?

    I'm not sure how to represent this without IPA, and I apologize for the

    eye-dialect. I say it with the obvious assimlatory process of two

    affricates and I swear I've heard other people say it that way.

    Although I have now (since this event happened) gotten corrected for my

    pronunciation!



    I know that "chintzy" is in Webster's, but I was curious

    about how widespread the usage is. This was a very common word when

    I was growing up in the northern part of rural Louisiana, but

    others in my age cohort (mid thirties) don't seem to use it.



    Speaking of not using things, in the last few months I've been stopped

    several times mid-sentence by people saying things like "What did you

    say? I've never heard that expression before" Or "Gee, the last time

    I heard that my grandmother said it." I feel like a fossil. These

    expressions that have given people double-takes (native

    Southerners all) include



    "tight as Dick's hatband"

    "poor as Job's turkey" (which was always weird to me because

        turkeys are New World animals)

    "handy as a pocket on a shirt"

    "sword of Damocles" (and don't anybody try and tell me *this* is

        a quaint regionalism)





    Are all these sayings archaic now?



    Shana Walton



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 23 Jan 1996 16:28:48 -0600

From:  "Kathleen M. O'Neill"  koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UIC.EDU 

Subject: Re: cheap folks



Shana spake thusly:

     Did any other people grow up hearing the pronunciation

     /chIn'-chi/ for the word "chintzy," meaning 'stingy', rather than

     /chIn(t)-si/?



I've definitely heard the first pronunciation more.

Didn't realize it was a mispronunciation. =^]



     Are all these sayings archaic now?



Well, I've never heard any of 'em.





;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

;Kathleen M. O'Neill ... Language Laboratory Technician I  ;

;koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uic.edu ... u55354[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uicvm.cc.uic.edu        ;

;:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::;

;University of Illinois at Chicago ... Language Laboratory ;

;703 South Morgan Street (M/C 042) ... Grant Hall, Room 311 ;

;Chicago, IL 60607-7025                  ;

;312.996.8838 or 8836 ... 312.996.5501 FAX        ;

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 23 Jan 1996 19:42:09 -0500

From:  Ronald Butters  amspeech[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ACPUB.DUKE.EDU 

Subject: Re: street slang



On Mon, 22 Jan 1996, Mary Bucholtz wrote:



  I'm doing some pro bono work for a public defender, and I'd like to know

  what the expression "break yourself" can mean, especially in its

  use among African American urban youth (but other groups' use of it is

  also important). I'd appreciate any citations anyone might have, including

  music or pop culture attestations, as well as anything scholarly that may

  have been written about it.



I don't have time to quote the passage for you, but if you look in Geneva

Smitherman's new dictionary, BLACK TALK (Houghton Mifflin) s.v. BREAK

you'll see that at least one highly important meaning is 'embarrass

yourself' or possibly 'fake yourself out'. This appears to be the way

that BREAK YOURSELF would most likely be used in African-American

vernacular today, according to Smitherman's book. I suppose it could also

mean 'run yourself down; talk negatively about yourself', given what

Smitherman says in the dictionary (page 69).



The use of linguistics to answer legal questions is one of my chief

interests. If you can send me further particulars about the case I would

really appreciate it.



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 23 Jan 1996 19:49:20 -0500

From:  Ronald Butters  amspeech[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ACPUB.DUKE.EDU 

Subject: Re: why no right field?



On Mon, 22 Jan 1996, Larry Horn wrote:



  In addition to Ron's observations about the left field fence being further

  back in sandlot ball (as opposed, e.g. to at Fenway Park) because of the

  prevalence of right handed pull hitters, it's worth commenting in connection

  with Kathleen's observation,

 

   1. From my softball days, I seem to recall that

   in order to hit to left field, you had to swing late.

   This could be done deliberately, if you knew you

   could catch someone off-guard, say, or it could be

   done out of lack of ability/confidence, etc.

 

  that this point only holds if the batter is left-handed. A right-handed

  hitter (i.e. the default value--not the NORMAL value, just the statistical

  default, Ron; I hasten to add that one of my best spouses is a leftie)

  would hit a ball to RIGHT on a late swing, which is why outfielders shift to

  right for a fastball pitcher and/or a weak hitter, or when the batter has two

  strikes and is presumed to be "protecting the plate".  I suspect Ron's

  derivation of 'out of left field' from 'out in left field', as the deepest

  part of the park, is on the mark.



Larry--

Pretty good thinking for a (putative) right-handed person!

Cheers,

Ron



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 23 Jan 1996 22:38:00 -0400

From:  "E. Wayles Browne"  ewb2[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CORNELL.EDU 

Subject: Re: cheap folks



     Did any other people grow up hearing the pronunciation

     /chIn'-chi/ for the word "chintzy," meaning 'stingy', rather than

     /chIn(t)-si/?

     I'm not sure how to represent this without IPA, and I apologize for the

     eye-dialect. I say it with the obvious assimlatory process of two

     affricates and I swear I've heard other people say it that way.

     Although I have now (since this event happened) gotten corrected for my

     pronunciation!

 

     I know that "chintzy" is in Webster's, but I was curious

     about how widespread the usage is. This was a very common word when

     I was growing up in the northern part of rural Louisiana, but

     others in my age cohort (mid thirties) don't seem to use it.



I say chinchy. It means stingy. It's not the same as chintsy, which means

low-quality, cheap (about things). I'm from New England, near Boston, born

1941.

I always felt this was a New England word. However my father was originally

from Shreveport, LA, and it is barely conceivable that I heard the word from

him rather than from New Englanders.





 

     "tight as Dick's hatband"

     "poor as Job's turkey" (which was always weird to me because

         turkeys are New World animals)

     "handy as a pocket on a shirt"

Never heard any of these.



     "sword of Damocles" (and don't anybody try and tell me *this* is

         a quaint regionalism)

 

This is a frequent literary allusion.





Wayles Browne, Assoc. Prof. of Linguistics

Morrill Hall, Cornell University

Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A.

tel. 607-255-0712 (o), 607-273-3009 (h)

fax 607-255-2044 (write FOR W. BROWNE)

e-mail ewb2[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cornell.edu (1989 to 1993 was: jn5j[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cornella.bitnet //

jn5j[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cornella.cit.cornell.edu)



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 22 Jan 1996 to 23 Jan 1996

************************************************





There are 19 messages totalling 449 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. why no right field? (2)

 2. Another WOTY (2)

 3. cheap folks (5)

 4. "street arab"

 5. chinchy

 6. hella hawkin' (2)

 7. out in left field (5)

 8. "I was all, '...'"



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 23 Jan 1996 22:31:21 -0700

From:  William King  WFKING[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: why no right field?



The left-bad / right-good connection may have led to this. How may of

you are familiar with "left footer"?



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 24 Jan 1996 00:25:29 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Another WOTY



I had intended to send this one in earlier, but better early than late:

    LEGACY (Adj.) -- any computer hardware or software designed or sold

pre-Windows 95. The term began appearing in PC Magazine in about October or

November [if I were not too cheap to shake loose for the CD subscription,

I could do a search for the first attestation], and is now endemic.



    --Rudy Troike (rtroike[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccit.arizona.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 24 Jan 1996 05:20:09 -0600

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: cheap folks



  I say chinchy. It means stingy. It's not the same as chintsy, which means

  low-quality, cheap (about things). I'm from New England, near Boston, born

  1941.



This summarizes my usage also -- Mississippi usage.



   

       "tight as Dick's hatband"

       "poor as Job's turkey" (which was always weird to me because

           turkeys are New World animals)

       "handy as a pocket on a shirt"

  Never heard any of these.



I've heard "tight as Dick's hatband" and "poor as Job's turkey" all my

life. I've never heard "handy as a pocket on a shirt."

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 23 Jan 1996 22:02:50 PST

From:  tom creswell  creswell[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CROWN.NET 

Subject: Re: why no right field?



I have heard clumsy people described as having "two left feet."



Tom Creswell



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 24 Jan 1996 10:36:03 CST

From:  "Donald M. Lance"  ENGDL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU 

Subject: Re: "street arab"



"Street arab" and "street urchin" were used in the 1880s --  for the

kids that were placed on orphan trains from big cities in the East and sent to

rural areas in the Midwest.

                   DMLance



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 24 Jan 1996 12:34:32 -0500

From:  "Pearsons, Enid"  epearsons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RANDOMHOUSE.COM 

Subject: Re: Another WOTY



"Legacy," (one of those attributive nouns, or adjectives, if you will -- I've

heard and seen it primarily referring to "legacy data") has been around for

some time. It's certainly not specific to Windows 95, although that's a

reasonable current context. Legacy data is any data you or your institution

produced some time ago with previous software or hardware. It's therefore data

that you'd like to accommodate on or in your current software or hardware.

Stuff you have on 5 1/4-inch disks when you now own a computer that has only a

3 1/2-inch floppy drive is legacy data. So is information produced in obsolete

database software that you now want to convert to SGML format. The

incompatibility between the old and the new is the issue.



If "legacy" has been used to refer to the old hardware or software itself, I

haven't seen that. Cites would be fun. And useful.



Enid Pearsons -- epearsons [AT SYMBOL GOES HERE] randomhouse.com -- Jesse Sheidlower's friend and

colleague, in case I need an ID.



P.S. Maybe now I'll stop just l-u-r-k-i-n-g.



))))))))) Previous Notes Mail

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((

To: ADS-L [AT SYMBOL GOES HERE] uga.cc.uga.edu (Multiple recipients of list ADS-L) [AT SYMBOL GOES HERE] SMTP

cc: (bcc: Enid Pearsons/Trade/RandomHouse)

From: RTROIKE [AT SYMBOL GOES HERE] CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU (Rudy Troike) [AT SYMBOL GOES HERE] SMTP

Date: 01/24/96 12:25 AM

Subject: Another WOTY



I had intended to send this one in earlier, but better early than late:

    LEGACY (Adj.) -- any computer hardware or software designed or sold

pre-Windows 95. The term began appearing in PC Magazine in about October or

November [if I were not too cheap to shake loose for the CD subscription,

I could do a search for the first attestation], and is now endemic.



    --Rudy Troike (rtroike[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccit.arizona.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 24 Jan 1996 10:36:41 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: cheap folks



Dear Shana,

    Rest assured that "chinchy" was the only form I heard or used growing

up at the southern tip of Texas. I've seen "chintzy" in print, and perhaps

heard it, though I can't recall from whom or where. I suppose "chintzy", on

the face of it, offers some etymological sense, but I always thought it was

a mistaken version of "chinchy" (Don Lance and I know that South Texas English

is the purest to be found). A related form used there is "pinchy", usually

pronounced with a somewhat Hispanicized raised /iy/.



    --Rudy Troike (rtroike[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccit.arizona.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 24 Jan 1996 12:05:56 CST

From:  "Joan H. Hall"  jdhall[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU 

Subject: Re: chinchy



DARE has a nice South, South Midland map for "chinchy."



Joan Hall



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 24 Jan 1996 14:05:41 -0400

From:  "Bethany K. Dumas, U of Tennessee"  dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Re: cheap folks



Rudy T. said:



  Rest assured that "chinchy" was the only form I heard or used growing

  up at the southern tip of Texas. I've seen "chintzy" in print, and perhaps

  heard it, though I can't recall from whom or where. I suppose "chintzy", on

  the face of it, offers some etymological sense, but I always thought it was

  a mistaken version of "chinchy" (Don Lance and I know that South Texas English

  is the purest to be found). A related form used there is "pinchy", usually

  pronounced with a somewhat Hispanicized raised /iy/.



Me too!



Bethany

(who is not from the southern tip, but near there. I was born in Corpus

Christi, lived in the area bounded by CC, SA, Houston, Beaumont my first

22 years)



Bethany K. Dumas, J.D., Ph.D.  | Applied Linguistics, Language & Law

Dep't of English, UT, Knoxville | EMAIL: dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu

415 McClung Tower        | (423) 974-6965 | FAX (423) 974-6926

Knoxville, TN 37996-0430    | See Webpage at http://hamlet.la.utk.edu





      Rest assured that "chinchy" was the only form I heard or used growing

  up at the southern tip of Texas. I've seen "chintzy" in print, and perhaps

  heard it, though I can't recall from whom or where. I suppose "chintzy", on

  the face of it, offers some etymological sense, but I always thought it was

  a mistaken version of "chinchy" (Don Lance and I know that South Texas English

  is the purest to be found). A related form used there is "pinchy", usually

  pronounced with a somewhat Hispanicized raised /iy/.

 

      --Rudy Troike (rtroike[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccit.arizona.edu)

 



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 24 Jan 1996 12:31:53 -0800

From:  Dan Moonhawk Alford  dalford[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]S1.CSUHAYWARD.EDU 

Subject: hella hawkin'



 From January 1996, student paper transcribing recorded conversation:



VAL: Anyways ... Ya check out that little Latin Flava' going' on at Taco

Bell? You know -- plaid, spikey hair?



JEN: He was hella hawkin'!



VAL: Whatever! (sarcastically, then laughs)



I've never heard it before. My 18 yr-old hasn't. Anyone?





**

BTW -- if anyone is interested, I have writings and data (a little) on

the still-new quotative "I'm all, '...'" as quoting gestures, tone of

voice, etc. as well as just words, going back to the early '80s when I

began tracking it.



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 24 Jan 1996 12:53:27 -0800

From:  Dan Moonhawk Alford  dalford[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]S1.CSUHAYWARD.EDU 

Subject: Re: out in left field



Has nobody thought of it from the point of view of little boys playing

baseball? It was always the worst player that was put out in left field,

someone who wouldn't be needed much. You just put that person out that

and forgot about 'im; you certainly didn't expect to hear or see anything

unusual from out in left field. This metaphor has consciousness implications.



On Tue, 23 Jan 1996, Larry Horn wrote:



  To complete the file, underdetermined though the history may be, the following

  citation should not go unmentioned:

 

    A. M. Zwicky, P. H. Salus, R. I. Binnick & A. L. Vanek (eds.),

     STUDIES OUT IN LEFT FIELD: DEFAMATORY ESSAYS PRESENTED TO JAMES D.

     McCAWLEY ON THE OCCASION OF HIS 33rd OR 33th BIRTHDAY. Edmonton:

     Linguistic Research, Inc., 1971. (Current Inquiry into Language &

     4.) [Recently reissued.]

  ----------------------------Original message----------------------------

  The origin of the phrase is obscure. Paul Dickson's Baseball

  Dictionary mentions the phrase, but hazards no opinion of its origin.

  Christine Ammer's dictionary of cliches, "Have A Nice Day", offers

  three theories gleaned from William Safire. Two deal with distance,

  either to the left field wall or to the left fielder, and one claims

  that "in the Chicago Cubs' old ballpark" a mental hospital was

  located just beyond left field (this seems pretty far-fetched).

  Ammer says the phrase has been in use since about 1950, but cites

  only a 1974 example. These dates reflect our files in a general way;

  our earliest citation comes from 1956 and shows the phrase either not

  fixed in form yet, or a very un-baseballish author: in a review of

  "Waiting for Godot" Estragon is described as "a fellow out on left

  field". A couple of years later an unidentified speaker (perhaps

  Jack Benny) is quoted as saying "My so-called Allen feud came

  strictly out of left field". I expected better evidence, but there

  was a long-established disinterest in sports lingo back in those

  days. The phrase begins appearing with "in" as the usual preposition

  in the 1970s.

 

  E.W.Gilman

 



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 24 Jan 1996 16:16:04 EST

From:  Larry Horn  LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU 

Subject: Re: out in left field



 Someone else brought up the possibility Dan Alford mentions (the allusion to

the worst kid being sent out to left field), but as we've been saying, the

preponderance of right-handed hitters means that it would be RIGHT field that

would be the safest spot to "hide" someone, and that's how I remember it,

in sandlot ball as well as the majors (think Dave Kingman).* Even in my

daughter's softball league, I'd wager that fewer balls are hit to right. So I

really think we need to stick to the left-field-fences-are-further-out theory

suggested by Ron, perhaps buttressed by the political corollaries brought up

by others (the off-the-wall-ness of "the Left", the prejudice against lefties,

etc.).    Larry

  *A tendency offset by the fact that right-fielders do need to have good

  arms, so many excellent fielders end up being positioned there as well

  (think Roberto Clemente).



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 24 Jan 1996 16:32:56 -0500

From:  Jesse T Sheidlower  jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PANIX.COM 

Subject: Re: hella hawkin'



   From January 1996, student paper transcribing recorded conversation:

 

  VAL: Anyways ... Ya check out that little Latin Flava' going' on at Taco

  Bell? You know -- plaid, spikey hair?

 

  JEN: He was hella hawkin'!

 

  VAL: Whatever! (sarcastically, then laughs)

 

  I've never heard it before. My 18 yr-old hasn't. Anyone?



Not entirely sure; it depends on how accurate the

transcription is. "Hella-" is an intensive prefix like

"mega-," that has been in use at least since the late

'80s. I've never heard "hawkin'" before, but I have

(rarely) encounted "honkin'" meaning roughly "exciting;

jammin', etc." Perhaps these are different realizations

of the same word.



  BTW -- if anyone is interested, I have writings and data (a little) on

  the still-new quotative "I'm all, '...'" as quoting gestures, tone of

  voice, etc. as well as just words, going back to the early '80s when I

  began tracking it.



I'd appreciate a few cites over the years, if they're handy. I

already had the ones you posted a while back. Do you have any

early examples of "like" as a quotative? Anyone else?



Best,



Jesse Sheidlower

Random House Reference

 jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]panix.com 



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 24 Jan 1996 15:33:22 -0500

From:  "Gregory J. Pulliam"  HUMPULLIAM[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MINNA.ACC.IIT.EDU 

Subject: Re: out in left field



The WORST player was always put in right field, not left. Right field is

the position which receives the fewest balls in play, as it is primarily

left-handed batters who hit in that direction, and the ball must also get

past the infield for the right-fielder to have a chance at misplaying the

ball. I know. I spent a lot of time "out in right field." THAT phrase's

meaning is very different for me from "out in left field."

Greg Pulliam

Illinois Institute of Technology



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 24 Jan 1996 17:54:32 -0500

From:  "H Stephen Straight (Binghamton University,

     SUNY)"  sstraigh[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]BINGSUNS.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU 

Subject: Re: out in left field



 This thread strikes me as particularly germane for a language-oriented

discussion group, because -- to my ear -- "from out in left field" refers

to an utterance (or other communicative event) that has been injected into

an otherwise well-ordered discourse from a source presumed to be out of

touch with (or by metaphorical extension, totally unconnected with) that

discourse. The phrase usually derogates, because it implies an uninformed

source. On this derogatory reading, the phrase compares to "from the

peanut gallery". However, FOILF can also describe an utterance that turns

out to be relevant and valuable, typically because the source turns out to

be surprisingly well informed.

 For me, the root metaphor for FOILF -- constructed in tandem with the

above interpretation(s) -- has therefore not involved WHO was in left

field (a good or a bad player) nor even WHERE that player was (distant

from home plate) but rather the fact that, unlike all of the other players

on the field (including the right fielder, who often takes a position not

much farther from "outfield" than the shortstop) the left fielder is least

likely to be within earshot and therefore unable to contribute

interactively to infielders' discourse.

 Any contribution at all "FOILF" is therefore surprising: "How can the

left fielder know what we're talking about?" If the contribution turns

out to be germane, this implies either that the left fielder could hear

more of what was being said than we thought (because the wind was just

right?) or that the discourse topic was one the left fielder had inferred

from evidence other than having heard what the infielders were saying

(because the sports commentary on the left fielder's Walkman had provided

clues?), but more likely it will strike the infielders as an unexpected

change of topic or otherwise discourse-disconnected interjection.

 My three cents.

        Best.     'Bye.      Steve

 H Stephen Straight, Dir, Lgs Across the Curric, Binghamton U (SUNY)

 Nat'l For Lg Ctr, Jan-June 1996, VOX: 202-667-8100; FAX: 667-6907

  1619 Massachusetts Ave NW -- Fourth Floor, Washington, DC 20036

  sstraigh[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu  ["sstraigh", not "sstraight"]



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 24 Jan 1996 18:42:26 -0500

From:  Ronald Butters  amspeech[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ACPUB.DUKE.EDU 

Subject: Re: cheap folks



Dear Shana,

I'm totally unfamiliar with "chinchy"--the only pronunciation I'm

familliar with is "chinsy" meaning 'cheapskate'. I lived in Cedar

Rapids/Iowa City Iowa for my first 27 years, then moved to Durham,

North Carolina for the next 28.



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 24 Jan 1996 18:53:18 -0500

From:  Ronald Butters  amspeech[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ACPUB.DUKE.EDU 

Subject: "I was all, '...'"



On Wed, 24 Jan 1996, Jesse T Sheidlower wrote:



 

    BTW -- if anyone is interested, I have writings and data (a little) on

    the still-new quotative "I'm all, '...'" as quoting gestures, tone of

    voice, etc. as well as just words, going back to the early '80s when I

    began tracking it.

 

  I'd appreciate a few cites over the years, if they're handy. I

  already had the ones you posted a while back. Do you have any

  early examples of "like" as a quotative? Anyone else?



We published a note several years ago in AMERICAN SPEECH on quotative

"I'm all . . ." (maybe y'all already know about this?)



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 24 Jan 1996 17:53:07 -0800

From:  "James Arthurs, Linguistics [AT SYMBOL GOES HERE] UVic."  jarthurs[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UVIC.CA 

Subject: Re: out in left field



 The WORST player was always put in right field, not left. Right field is

 the position which receives the fewest balls in play, as it is primarily

 left-handed batters who hit in that direction, and the ball must also get

 past the infield for the right-fielder to have a chance at misplaying the

 ball. I know. I spent a lot of time "out in right field." THAT phrase's

 meaning is very different for me from "out in left field."

 Greg Pulliam

 Illinois Institute of Technology



I, a native non-American, am puzzled.



I have followed this thread re. "(from) out in left field" and note that

the discussion (cf. above) turns mostly on the notion of the calibre of

the player who is "(out) in left field".



As one who played cricket rather than baseball, I can assure you that

baseball's "playing in left field" has much in common with cricket's

"playing on the boundary", i.e. each means being off in the distance,

hence well away from the focus of the action and thus, in the case of the

U.S. metaphor - as I understand it, anyway, out of touch and/or irrelevant.



It seems to me that characterising the player is not the point here and

that thinking otherwise is precisely what has led to the (surely irrelevant)

discussion of "left" versus "right" and of left-handed hitters and so on.

More to the point, the very use of the word "out" seems to me to be unmotivated

here, unless the metaphor turns on the notion of

distance/separation/irrelevance etc.



Now, finally and irrelevantly, I should point out that in cricket as in

baseball,

it is very often the duffer who is exiled to the furthest boubdary, to keep him

- and so, with luck, the rest of the team - out of trouble.



I know - I've been there!



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 24 Jan 1996 21:54:22 EST

From:  Beth Lee Simon  simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU 

Subject: Re: cheap folks



Dear Shana and Ron,

I too am totally unfamiliar with "chinchy", and I lived in Des Moines - Iowa

City Iowa for my first 27 years. Then seWI, Madison, and never knew it there

either.



I'll see about Fort Wayne IN tomorrow.



beth simon



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 23 Jan 1996 to 24 Jan 1996

************************************************





There are 11 messages totalling 256 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. why no right field? (2)

 2. out in left field

 3. Bank Machines

 4. Denny's question reformulated

 5. hella hawkin' (2)

 6. green pain

 7. expressions

 8. Neither minute rice, nor chintzy food.

 9. Chinchy to Ginchy



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 24 Jan 1996 20:31:54 -0500

From:  Robert Swets  bobbo[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]BCFREENET.SEFLIN.LIB.FL.US 

Subject: Re: why no right field?



On Tue, 23 Jan 1996, tom creswell wrote:



  I have heard clumsy people described as having "two left feet."



Only by people with two right feet.



*******************************************************************************

                 __ __

COLOR ME ORANGE         | | | | Voice: 954-782-4582; Fax: 954-782-4535

R. D. Swets (Archbishop Bob)   | | | | Zion Lutheran School:  954-421-3146,

170 N.E. 18th Street    ______| | | |______  Ext. 135;  Fax: 954-421-4250

Pompano Beach, FL 33060 (________) (________) Ft. Lauderdale Sun-Sentinel:

bobbo[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us        954-356-4635; Fax: 954-356-4676

*******************************************************************************



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 25 Jan 1996 08:20:27 -0500

From:  "Dennis R. Preston"  preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PILOT.MSU.EDU 

Subject: Re: out in left field



Larry is right on. I am blessed with the brain and shooting skills of an

NBA star (undergrad linguistics students here at MSU can still improve

their grade by putting down more from the top of the key than me; none yet)

but the height and weight of a blocking back (which ended up being my

primary position), but my father and all his brothers were baseball greats.

To their intense disapppointment I had ground-ball-to-lip disease. Every

time a hot grounder came towards me, it seemed to end up in my face rather

than my glove.

I guarantee you that as time went on in my youth (and before I gained

enough self-confidence and familial independence to play the stupid game

not at all) that it was to RIGHT (not LEFT) field that I and my usually

sutured lip were assigned (where I usually performed even worse than my

minimal baseball [and even softball] skills would predict due to the

growing inattentiveness I paid the far-off goings-on).

I don't know what they were doing out in left field, but us

basketball-football types were stranded in right, where, except for a few

lefties and LATE-swinging right-handed batters, the ball rarely showed up

(a feature to which my lower lip, the one usually whacked, was grateful).

Dennis (Dead-Eye, Slippery Glove) Preston





  Someone else brought up the possibility Dan Alford mentions (the allusion to

 the worst kid being sent out to left field), but as we've been saying, the

 preponderance of right-handed hitters means that it would be RIGHT field that

 would be the safest spot to "hide" someone, and that's how I remember it,

 in sandlot ball as well as the majors (think Dave Kingman).* Even in my

 daughter's softball league, I'd wager that fewer balls are hit to right. So I

 really think we need to stick to the left-field-fences-are-further-out theory

 suggested by Ron, perhaps buttressed by the political corollaries brought up

 by others (the off-the-wall-ness of "the Left", the prejudice against lefties,

 etc.).    Larry

   *A tendency offset by the fact that right-fielders do need to have good

   arms, so many excellent fielders end up being positioned there as well

   (think Roberto Clemente).



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 25 Jan 1996 12:45:34 -0500

From:  Francie Brown  Francie959[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Bank Machines



I meant to send this to the whole list: In California we call them ATMs, but

in Philadelphia, my hometown, they say MAC machines, which is a proprietary

name for a network used in the area. They don't know what you mean by "ATM"



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 25 Jan 1996 13:03:35 -0500

From:  Francie Brown  Francie959[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Re: Denny's question reformulated



In Pennsylvania, the term "family restaurant" or "family style" restaurant

means something quite specific in my experience. Particularly in the western

and central areas of the state, food in a "family style" restaurant may be

served in large communal bowls to be dished out at the table by the diners

themselves, just as they would at home. I have been to such restaurants and

was quite surprised to find this custom existing still somewhere -- albeit it

in less cosmopolitan, off-the-beaten-track towns.



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 25 Jan 1996 10:21:40 -0800

From:  Mary Bucholtz  bucholtz[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GARNET.BERKELEY.EDU 

Subject: Re: hella hawkin'



On Wed, 24 Jan 1996, Jesse T Sheidlower wrote:



  Not entirely sure; it depends on how accurate the

  transcription is. "Hella-" is an intensive prefix like

  "mega-," that has been in use at least since the late

  '80s. I've never heard "hawkin'" before, but I have

  (rarely) encounted "honkin'" meaning roughly "exciting;

  jammin', etc." Perhaps these are different realizations

  of the same word.

 

Jesse,



I'd be interested in knowing where you've heard "hella." As far as I

can tell it's restricted to Northern California, esp. the Bay Area--does

that fit your own observations? I wouldn't characterize it as a prefix,

incidentally--what leads you to describe it this way?



Mary Bucholtz

Department of Linguistics

University of California, Berkeley

bucholtz[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]garnet.berkeley.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 25 Jan 1996 13:50:45 -0500

From:  Jesse T Sheidlower  jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PANIX.COM 

Subject: Re: hella hawkin'



Mary Bucholtz wrote:

 

  On Wed, 24 Jan 1996, Jesse T Sheidlower wrote:

 

    Not entirely sure; it depends on how accurate the

    transcription is. "Hella-" is an intensive prefix like

    "mega-," that has been in use at least since the late

    '80s. I've never heard "hawkin'" before, but I have

    (rarely) encounted "honkin'" meaning roughly "exciting;

    jammin', etc." Perhaps these are different realizations

    of the same word.

   

  Jesse,

 

  I'd be interested in knowing where you've heard "hella." As far as I

  can tell it's restricted to Northern California, esp. the Bay Area--does

  that fit your own observations? I wouldn't characterize it as a prefix,

  incidentally--what leads you to describe it this way?



We have seven examples in the galleys of vol. II of HDAS, of which

two are from Los Angeles (from Pamela Munro's two collections of

U.C.L.A. slang) and the others are not localizable. The earliest

is 1989 (two cites), but two of them suggest earlier dates.



I called it a prefix because three of the seven examples explicitly

use it as one (either dictionary entries defining it as a prefix

or an actual use as prefix, esp. "hellacool"). All the examples

are prenominal, and a use such as *"That party was hella!" seems

extremely unlikely. (Most of our uses are adverbial preadjectival,

but we do have an adjectival prenoun example.) But my position

isn't that strong on it, if you want to consider it a straight

adverb.



Best,



Jesse Sheidlower

Random House Reference

 jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]panix.com 



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 25 Jan 1996 13:23:41 -0600

From:  Charles F Juengling  juen0001[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GOLD.TC.UMN.EDU 

Subject: green pain



Dear ADS-ers

A friend of mine said that he heard the following phrase and asked me

about it. Both of us are unfamiliar with it:

He was a 'green pain.' From the context it seems to mean that he was a

'pain in the rear-end.'

Is anyone familiar with the phrase 'green pain'?

Thanks

Fritz Juengling



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 25 Jan 1996 16:36:05 EST

From:  David Bergdahl  bergdahl[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU 

Subject: expressions



          Ohio University Electronic Communication





  Date: 25-Jan-1996 04:29pm EST



   To: Remote Addressee           ( _MX%"ADS-L[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UGA.CC.UGA.EDU )



  From: David Bergdahl               Dept: English

     BERGDAHL                 Tel No: (614) 593-2783



Subject: expressions





My wife is a psychologist and hears expressions in therapy that she's never

encountered before; she writes 'em down for me. Here are two from a mid-sixty

yr old white female resident of W.Va. Just think of 'em as antidotes to the

Jeff Foxsworthy view of 'rednecks.'



"If ice freezes on high water, the water will come back and get it."



"Go back and lick your calf over again." Said to a person who has not performed

a task well enough the first time, on the analogy of a cow who must groom her

calf for bonding to take place; if s/he needs to lick the calf again, s/he needs

to claim a task, to make it his/hers [or hissn/herren].



BERGDAHL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU

        David Bergdahl

            Ohio University/Athens

        "Where Appalachia meets the Midwest"--Anya Briggs







Received: 25-Jan-1996 04:36pm



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 25 Jan 1996 19:53:50 -0500

From:  Donna Metcalf  Ddonna[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Re: Neither minute rice, nor chintzy food.



I have heard Nina Griscom use the term "destination restaurant" three nights

in a row on "TV diners" on the Food Channel. Here in Jacksonville, Illinois,

we dine either at home or vicariously. I love the term...Is it a common term

in big cities?

(As soon as the ADS newsletter is done, I am hoping to talk its editor into

going with me to a destination restaurant. Chicago?? St. Louis?? Are you

listening, Allan?)

Donna Metcalf



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 25 Jan 1996 18:53:27 -0700

From:  William King  WFKING[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Chinchy to Ginchy



I grew up close to Vermont and heard only [chin si]. However, in the early

'70's, a guy from inner-beltway D.C. in college with me used "ginchy" to

mean something really neat/cool/catchy, but a bit quirky, as opposed to

far-out, as awesome might have been said in 1972.

Bill King



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 25 Jan 1996 19:16:40 -0700

From:  William King  WFKING[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: why no right field?



Archbishop Bob's post makes this appropriate. A left-footer, in Irish-

Catholic terms, was/is a Protestant, thus one "out in left field."

I think that it was that "COLOR ME ORANGE" that made me reply. Field

and footing are relative; one shouldn't throw oranges in a green house.

Enough of the color commentary.

Re baseball, wouldn't the left fielder be more likely to stay out -- as

opposed to moving in?

Bill King



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 24 Jan 1996 to 25 Jan 1996

************************************************





There are 14 messages totalling 567 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. expressions (2)

 2. Chinchy to Ginchy

 3. Chinchy to Ginchy -Reply (3)

 4. expressions -Reply

 5. Positive _any longer_?

 6. T H E R I G H T S T U F F N E W S L E T T E R

 7. Another WOTY (2)

 8. hella hawkin'

 9. street slang

 10. chintsy



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 25 Jan 1996 23:23:05 -0800

From:  Kim & Rima McKinzey  rkm[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SLIP.NET 

Subject: Re: expressions



 "If ice freezes on high water, the water will come back and get it."

 

 "Go back and lick your calf over again."



This reminds me of my grandmother-in-law who, after visiting my husband and

me for the first time, said of me in a later discussion, that I'd "been

around and wore shoes." This was said as a compliment and I defined it as

referring to someone who had more experience or sophistication. I've never

heard it before or since. Comments?



Rima



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 26 Jan 1996 09:04:38 -0400

From:  "E. Wayles Browne"  ewb2[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CORNELL.EDU 

Subject: Re: Chinchy to Ginchy



 I grew up close to Vermont and heard only [chin si]. However, in the early

 '70's, a guy from inner-beltway D.C. in college with me used "ginchy" to

 mean something really neat/cool/catchy, but a bit quirky, as opposed to

 far-out, as awesome might have been said in 1972.

 Bill King



ginchy [jinchi] like the word "gin" or ginchy [ginchi] like the word gingko?



Wayles Browne, Assoc. Prof. of Linguistics

Morrill Hall, Cornell University

Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A.

tel. 607-255-0712 (o), 607-273-3009 (h)

fax 607-255-2044 (write FOR W. BROWNE)

e-mail ewb2[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cornell.edu (1989 to 1993 was: jn5j[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cornella.bitnet //

jn5j[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cornella.cit.cornell.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 26 Jan 1996 09:34:23 -0500

From:  Molly Dickmeyer  dickmeye[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JBLSMTP.PHL.LRPUB.COM 

Subject: Chinchy to Ginchy -Reply



Fred "Kooky" Burns, in the song "Kooky, Kooky, Lend Me Your Comb"

[sp. and exact title?], at one point says, "Baby, you're the

ginchiest." 1950s, I think. Suppose this is where it came from?



Molly



    William King  WFKING[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU  1/25/96, 08:53pm    

I grew up close to Vermont and heard only [chin si]. However, in the

early

'70's, a guy from inner-beltway D.C. in college with me used "ginchy"

to mean something really neat/cool/catchy, but a bit quirky, as

opposed to far-out, as awesome might have been said in 1972.

Bill King



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 26 Jan 1996 09:50:06 -0500

From:  Molly Dickmeyer  dickmeye[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JBLSMTP.PHL.LRPUB.COM 

Subject: Re: expressions -Reply



Rima:



Where I come from (PA German country), this is among the highest of

compliments. I agree with you're theory of it implying experience,

but I'm not sure about sophistication, necessarily, beyond being

"civilized"; "and wore shoes" might be the equivalent of saying "and

walks upright," if you get my drift. There's also an element of

having common sense and the "right" priorities. A related saying is

"been around long enough to know what's what."



Molly

    Kim & Rima McKinzey  rkm[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SLIP.NET  1/26/96, 02:23am    

 "If ice freezes on high water, the water will come back and get it."

 

 "Go back and lick your calf over again."



This reminds me of my grandmother-in-law who, after visiting my

husband and me for the first time, said of me in a later discussion,

that I'd "been around and wore shoes." This was said as a compliment

and I defined it as referring to someone who had more experience or

sophistication. I've never heard it before or since. Comments?



Rima



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 26 Jan 1996 10:02:03 EST

From:  Larry Horn  LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU 

Subject: Positive _any longer_?



I'm passing along this datum and query from David Dowty:



     Every heard of "positive _any_longer_", i.e. used in a [non-negative]

   upward-entail context like positive _anymore_? This morning, while

   NPR's "Morning Edition" on my clock radio was dragging me out of a

   sound sleep into a semblance of consciousness, I realized that the

   asterisk light in my brain was flashing, and when I had come to a bit

   more, I realized it was because I was hearing something like

  

     "(It seems that) the purpose of citizenship any longer is to ..."

  

   By the time I was awake enough to grasp why this sounded funny, I

   could not longer remember what the actual sentence was. But I did

   catch that the speaker was the mayor of Missoula, Montana, a Mr.

   Kemitz (or Chemitz?). Happen to catch this? Have you ever heard

   _any_longer_ used this way?



We've talked intermittently about positive "anymore" here, and I've enjoyed

reading Murray's 'Positive _anymore_ in the Midwest' (in the "Heartland"

English volume edited by Tim Fraser), but I certainly haven't come across this

apparent extension, blend, or whatever. Seems like people are willing to say

anything any longer.

  By the way, I remember him as being Kookie [not Kooky] Burns. 77 Sunset

Strip, right? Haven't thought of him in decades. Lend me your comb, indeed.

I'm not sure I ever figured out what it might mean to be "the ginchiest", but

there it was.



--Larry



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 26 Jan 1996 07:36:32 -0800

From:  Physical Euphoria  euphoria[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NWLINK.COM 

Subject: T H E R I G H T S T U F F N E W S L E T T E R



 From: Physical Euphoria  euphoria[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nwlink.com 

 Subject: T H E R I G H T S T U F F N E W S L E T T E R

 

 

                 S T R U T  Y O U R  S T U F F

        

        To attract visitors to your Web site, you've got to know how to make

your presence known and how to promote it without offending.

        

        The whole idea of publicizing your Web page is an interesting topic.

While the concept of promoting a product or service is nothing new, the

medium in this case, the Internet, certainly is. Therefore, so, too, are the

marketing techniques that you may wish to consider. To be found on the Net,

you've got to speak up and make your presence known. Here are a few ways to

get started.

        

        * Put your URL and a short description of your site into a signature

file. Then attach that sig to every piece of e-mail or newsgroup posting you

send.

        

        * Send an announcement about your page to the newsgroup:

 comp.infosystems.www.announce . Your subject line must include a brief, but

meaningful explanation of the site, not just the URL.

        

        * Advertise in the World-Wide Web Yellow Pages

at: http//www.yellow.com/cgi-bin/online 

        

        * Submit a description of your page and its URL to Cool Site of the

Day at: cool[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]infi.net or to Spider's Pick of the Day at: boba[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]www.com.

        

        * Register your URL with Yahoo at:  http://www.yahoo.com ,

Webcrawler at:  http://www.webcrawler.com . Einet Galaxy at:

 http://galaxy.einet.net , and other search engines.

        

        * Submit your URL and site description to dozens of search engines,

newsgroups, and mailing lists en masse by pointing your Web browser to:

Promote-It!, a compilation of all of the Net's best publicity tools. You'll

find Promote-It! at:  http://www.cam.org/~psarena/promote-it.html .

        

                      Best Web Sites

 

 Perspectives Tax Preparation - http://www.intertain.net/ ~Perspectives - "A

professional and affordable tax preparation service located in New York's

Capital District"

 

 America's Choice Mall located at:  http://www.choicemall.com . This Mall

has lots of interesting stuff. Perhaps you've even seen the mall on TV.

They advertise frequently usually on the end of info commercials.

        

 The Exploring the environment (ETE) project places groups of high school

students into problem-solving roles. Among the topice are weather,

popluation growth, biodiversity, land use patterns, volcanoes, water,

pollution, and global warming. Teacher materials address content,

cooperative learning, problem-based learning, and assessment. ETE URL:

http://www.cotf.edu/ete

 

 John Hopkins Medical Institutions Information Network. An information

hotlist for many ailments. (http://infonet.welch.jhu.edu/advocacy.html

        

 Let Your Mouse Do the Walking. Businesses all around the United States are

being promoted on the Net and may not even know it. The Central Source

Yellow Page at:  http://telephonebook.com  is an enormous database of

company names, addresses, and telephone numbers garnered from Yellow Pages

published throughout America.You don't need to submit your firm's name to

Central Source to be included. If you have a business listing in your local

phone book, it's likely your company was automatically merged into the

Internet reference. If for some reason that's not the case, you can fill out

a form and submit it for inclusion.

        

        

                   Invention Helps Spray Away Pain

  The Blade-Citizen News

  By Kim Horner

  Staff Writer

        

 Aspirin, Tylenol and ibuprofen pills have been killing the pain for years.

But a Vista company hopes to revolutionize the pain-relief industry with a

new spray-on formula called TheraPain.

        

 "It could be the Heinz 57 of the pain-relief business," said Seymour

Thomas, senior chemist for TheraPain products.

        

 Thomas claims that by spraying away the pain, TheraPain works faster than

pills to block the nerves messages to the brain. With recent reports of the

potentially harmful long-term effects of aspirin, ibuprofen and other pain

relievers, many consumers want a topical solution, he added.

        

 The company became listed with the Food and Drug Administration two years

ago and has sold more than 200,000 bottles of TheraPain in Canada, Chief

Executive Officer Ted Laoudis said.

        

 Laoudis said he created TheraPain eight years ago to find a natural

pain-relief method.

        

 The active ingredient is menthol imported from the Brazilian rain forest.

The formula also includes isopropyl alcohol, purified water, pepppermint

oil, educalyptus oil, skin conditioner and a secret ingredient that delivers

TheraPain from the skin's surface to the point of pain, Laoudis said.

        

 TheraPain advertises relief for back pain, sports injuries, neck and back

aches, sprains, cramps, sore feet, arthritis and other minor ailments. It

feels cold when applied and soothes sore muscles.

        

 Michael Kaplan, Vice President of operations, said he was sold on TheraPain

when he used it for sore muscles.

        

 "I was limping, I couldn't even walk," Kaplan said. But the TheraPain made

the muscle soreness go away by the next day, he said.

        

 Laoudis said, Therapain, which sells for $14.95 for a 4-ounce bottle, is a

mix of ancient and new technology. "It's probably been used for centuries in

folk medicine," Laoudis said.

        

 The company also has a shower gel pain reliever, Body Buzzz which is also

said to promote hair growth. Also a roll-on for customers with arthritis,

Thomas said. "A pump is hard for someone with arthritis to operate," Thomas

said.

        

 Also, in their arsenal of products is a natural relief foot spray for

people that are on their feet all day and a natural skin cream which leaves

no residue called, Smooth Secrets.

        

 Dr. Cynthia Lozier, a family physician and specialist in internal medicine,

points out how TheraPain can be of value to patients who worry about a

long-term regimen of prescription pain killers.

        

 "Not only does TheraPain offer an effective self-medicating alternative to

prescription drugs. For many people, it is certainly a less expensive route

for many patients who need relief from chronic pain. TheraPain seems to have

found the right combination for diverting the pain path to the brain, a

trick which all topically applied analgesics have as their goal," says Dr.

Lozier.

        

 For more information on these "feel good" products visit their web site at:

http://www.choicemall.com/washington/wa009-01

        

                   S e c u r e  P a y

                  Internet Commerce Made Easy

        

 Afraid to use your credit card over the internet? SecurePay could be the

solution. The SecurePay system uses Smart Wallet technology that permits any

customer to purchase from a SecurePay merchant.

        

        Merchants can accept credit card purchases by setting up a SecurePay

account. Customer orders are processed in real time with the encrypted

credit card information being passed at the time of sale through the

merchant's Web server to the SecurePay Decryption Center. There it is

decrypted, authorization is performed through the merchant's credit card

processor and authorization results are passed back to the merchant's Web

server. You can visit their Web site at:

http://www.securepay.com/securepay/security.html

        

               M e l a t o n i n: The Hottest Hormone Of All

                   American Health Magazine

        

        We've lived through the oat bran craze, and we're still in love with

antioxidant vitamins. Now comes melatonin, the "miracle" hormone reputed to

promote sleep, prevent cancer and keep us from growing old.

        

        Since August, 1995, there have been at least five books published on

the hormone, which is made in the pea-sized pineal gland buried in the

center of the brain.

        

        My guess is that if you did a profile of the buyers of Melatonin,

they'd be between 37 and 57, says Dr. Robert Butler, a gerontologist at

Mount Sinai Medical Center in New York City. Baby boomers want a more vital

middle and old age than what they've seen their parents go through.

        

        When functioning properly, the pineal gland produces melatonin in

the evening hours and into the night, which sets the internal biological

clock that governs our cycles or rhythms. Certain enzymes in the pineal

gland are activated by darkness. As the sun goes down, malatonin is released

and sleep results. As morning approaches and light intensifies, melatonin

levels decrease as we awaken after a light intensifies, melatonin levels

decrease as we awaken after a restful sleep. If adequate levels are not

produced or are not produced at the proper time, we cannot experience

quality sleep.

        

        If you would like further information or would like to know how to

order melatonin send e-mail to: euphoria[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nwlink.com

        

                     M E D I C A L  U P D A T E

             New Free Radical Scavenger Boosts Your Body's Defense System!

        

        You can't escape free radicals! If you live on planet earth, you are

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* Cleaning Products

        Free Radicals cause premature aging and play a major role in the

development of chronic and degenerative diseases. They alter our DNA and

destroy our cells. Because of the toxic environment we live in, many of us

do not have healthy blood.

        

        Antioxidants are the key elements in the defense system which the

body uses in order to neutralize the activity of these dangerous free

radical enemies. The most powerful antioxidants in the arsenal of free

radical warfare are Proanthocyanadins, also known as Pycnogenols.

        

        Proanthocynadins have an anti-flammatory effect due to their ability

to block the hormone that releases histamine, which causes inflammation.

This is why it is so effective on "-itis" type disorders. Proanthocyanadins

not only strengthen capillaries, blood vessels, veins, and arteries, they

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        If you would like to receive more information on Proanthocyanadins

or would like to know how to order send e-mail to: euphoria[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nwlink.com

        

        

               Prediction.....The web goes interactive

        

        A year from now, no one will consider a static site interesting. If

it doesn't have animation, chat, threading software, or sound, it will be

considered dull.

        

                      C L A S S I F I E D S

        

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     Life Plus offers an optional, no-risk business opportunity for those

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        Health Technologies Network: Home of CORAL CALCIUM. The Secret of

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        CALIFORNIA LAND FOR SALE. $40.00 Down; $40.00 Monthly. These are

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        34' CHB Trawler, Tri-Cabin, Bow Thruster, Auto-Pilot, 3KW Generator,

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        Send your postal address and 3 stamps for KITCHEN TABLE WARRIOR for

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        Looking for E.R.R. from Richmond Virginia. We traded videos over

Compuserve back in April or May of 1995. His first name is Ed. If you have

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just type "subscribe NL" in the subject line.

       

      

     

 



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 26 Jan 1996 09:53:40 -0600

From:  Katherine Catmull  kate[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]BGA.COM 

Subject: Re: Chinchy to Ginchy -Reply



On Fri, 26 Jan 1996, Molly Dickmeyer wrote:



  Fred "Kooky" Burns, in the song "Kooky, Kooky, Lend Me Your Comb"

  [sp. and exact title?], at one point says, "Baby, you're the

  ginchiest."



I think it's Ed, not Fred, isn't it?



I also seem to recall "ginchy" in surfer-type movies, like the Gidget

series, but I could be wrong.



Kate Catmull



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 25 Jan 1996 16:50:59 EST

From:  Undetermined origin c/o LISTSERV maintainer

      owner-LISTSERV[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UGA.CC.UGA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Another WOTY



This is a bit late (I've had problems with my legacy hardware), but

"legacy" in computer usage is a few years old and doesn't just mean

pre-Windows 95. "Legacy" hardware or software is any equipment or

program that is hanging around, considered obsolete by the person using

the term, but has to be maintained for some reason. For example, I have

an ancient workstation that is more trouble than it's worth, but

it would take a solid week's work, and probably a paid consultant, to

rebuild the network here without it.



Vicki Rosenzweig

vr%acmcr.uucp[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]murphy.com | rosenzweig[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]acm.org

New York, NY



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 26 Jan 1996 11:02:26 CST

From:  "Joan H. Hall"  jdhall[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU 

Subject: Re: expressions



Volume III of DARE will have a nice entry on "lick one's calf over." It's

labelled "Sth, S Midl."



Joan Hall



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 26 Jan 1996 11:03:23 -0500

From:  Jesse T Sheidlower  jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PANIX.COM 

Subject: Re: Chinchy to Ginchy -Reply



 

  Fred "Kooky" Burns, in the song "Kooky, Kooky, Lend Me Your Comb"

  [sp. and exact title?], at one point says, "Baby, you're the

  ginchiest." 1950s, I think. Suppose this is where it came from?



1959. I don't think it appears in any of the Gidget movies, as

another post suggested. "Kookie" is right.



JTS



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 26 Jan 1996 10:34:50 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Another WOTY



Re "legacy" -- thanks for the input (I still use a Radio Shack Model II, 64K).

I've been a reader of PC Magazine for about 8 years, but don't recall seeing

the term until this past Fall, when it suddenly started showing up in articles

about software apps that would or would not run under Windows 95, or hardware

that lacked enough memory or did not have drivers that would work with Win 95.

So while it obviously does not qualify as a WOTY, lexicographers and linguists

should leap on this as an opportunity to identify a(n) historical point when

the term acquired a specifically narrowed meaning.



--Rudy Troike (rtroike[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccit.arizona.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 26 Jan 1996 12:26:57 -0800

From:  Dan Moonhawk Alford  dalford[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]S1.CSUHAYWARD.EDU 

Subject: Re: hella hawkin'



Legacy quotes are getting difficult to attribute properly now, so --

   

      Not entirely sure; it depends on how accurate the

      transcription is. "Hella-" is an intensive prefix like

      "mega-," that has been in use at least since the late

      '80s.



I agree about the accuracy; I'll ask my student to say it for me. Re:

below, yes -- this is Northern California data, where what is "hella-"

here is often "hecka-" in LA. An emergent dialect split along the lines

of "101" vs "the 101".



      I've never heard "hawkin'" before, but I have

      (rarely) encounted "honkin'" meaning roughly "exciting;

      jammin', etc." Perhaps these are different realizations

      of the same word.



As in "He was really honkin'" for me, describing a person rather than an

event, for instance. Yes, that's certainly a possibility I hadn't thought

of. Thanks.



    I'd be interested in knowing where you've heard "hella." As far as I

    can tell it's restricted to Northern California, esp. the Bay Area--does

    that fit your own observations?



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 26 Jan 1996 16:59:38 -0500

From:  Donna Metcalf  Ddonna[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Re: street slang



I teach at a small, private, alternative high school where we have some

"African American urban youth" who definintely be talkin the street talk.

This morning I asked two of them about your expression.

Jimmie White said, "It mean a lot of things." First he said it means stick up

or rob. He explained that if he has a gun and says break yourself it means

"give me your money, your rings, like another word for stick 'em up." I asked

him what if the person being robbed had no idea what this expression meant

and he laughed and said he would then say, "Empty your pockets, fool."

He said it was an everyday word. It also means better yourself, as in "Better

break yourself before you wreck yourself."

I walked up to the second student and simply said, "Break yourself." He gave

me a very funny look, reached into his pocket, and handed me a big wad of

bills. (I asked no questions) Then we talked about the expression. He said,

"When you're getting jacked or something." And said the translation of jacked

was robbed, of course. He also said the second meaning was "Break your ways

and do better...buckle down." This student said the first meaning is more

common.

Donna Metcalf

Note: Jacksonville is not an urban area, rather a small town in central

Illinois. However, I also teach at our local prison and think these kids in

our school talk much like the students there, and they are mostly from

Chicago.



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 26 Jan 1996 14:24:05 -0800

From:  THOMAS CLARK  tlc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NEVADA.EDU 

Subject: chintsy



Used for sixty years (that I know of) in Eastern Washington State,

Northern Idaho, Western Montana. Meaning "cheap. Wish I'd thought to

tell the folks at DARE.

Cheers,

tlc



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 25 Jan 1996 to 26 Jan 1996

************************************************





There are 10 messages totalling 622 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Kookie, once more with feeling...

 2. GURT96: REMINDER

 3. chintsy (2)

 4. expressions -Reply

 5. Varieties of American English (2)

 6. FAQ 1 / *STOP*......... before you buy another over-priced USA magazine at

   the store or by subscription!  GET A WHOLE YEAR FREE!

 7. pictures taken/pictures made (2)



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 27 Jan 1996 00:07:21 EST

From:  Larry Horn  LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU 

Subject: Kookie, once more with feeling...



...or at least with gemination. I just had this epiphany while cleaning the

cat litter box that he was Edd (Kookie) Byrnes, with two D's for some (kooky)

reason. And epiphanies, however minor, can't be wrong.



                        Larry



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 27 Jan 1996 01:31:55 -0500

From:  GURT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GUVAX.BITNET

Subject: GURT96: REMINDER



PREREGISTRATION DEADLINE: (postmarked no later than) FEBRUARY 9,

1996. After this date, on-site fees apply. A 10% handling fee

will be charged for refunds.



====================CONFERENCE ANNOUNCEMENT====================



       Georgetown University Round Table

        on Languages and Linguistics 1996



 Linguistics, language acquisition, and language variation:

       Current trends and future prospects



          March 14 - March 16, 1996



---------------------------------------------------------------

This is a brief version intended to keep list messages short.

To see the full program, visit this www-site:

   http://www.georgetown.edu/conferences/gurt96/gurt96.html

...or contact the GURT staff at the address given below.

---------------------------------------------------------------



          Thursday, March 14, 1996



Opening remarks

   James E. Alatis, Chair, Georgetown University Round Table

   1996



Dedication of Conference to Earl Stevick, Independent Researcher



Plenary Address

   David Crystal, University of Wales, Bangor

   "Playing with linguistic problems from Orwell to Plato and

   back again"



          *****



  Friday, March 15 and Saturday, March 16, 1996



INVITED SPEAKERS:



Donna Lardiere and Andrea Tyler, Georgetown University



Anna Uhl Chamot, The George Washington University



Donna Christian, Center for Applied Linguistics



Mary Ann Christison, Snow College



Reinhold Freudenstein, IFS der Philipps-Universitaet, Marburg/Lahn,

Germany



Braj Kachru, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign



Yamuna Kachru, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign



Stephen Krashen, University of Southern California



Michael Breen, Edith Cowan University, Australia



Ronald P. Leow, Georgetown University



Joan Morley, University of Michigan



Peter Patrick, Georgetown University



Theodore Rodgers, University of Hawaii and Bilkent University,

Ankara, Turkey



Renzo Titone, University of Rome, Italy and University of Toronto,

Ontario



Walt Wolfram and Gail Hamilton, North Carolina State University

and Ocracoke School, North Carolina



             *****



Tutorial with Stephen Krashen, School of Education, University of

Southern California



This workshop will cover, and attempt to integrate, material

presented at Krashen's GURT presentations since 1989. It will

review evidence for and against the input hypothesis, the reading

hypothesis, applications of the input hypothesis to beginning

and intermediate language and literacy development, the role of

light reading, and applications to bilingual education.



=====================================================================



Registration form. Please send a printout of this form and

your check or money order (payable to GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY; no

credit cards) to: Carolyn A. Straehle, Coordinator, GURT 1996,

International Language Programs and Research, 306-U Intercultural

Center, Georgetown University, Washington, DC 20057-1045, U.S.A.



PREREGISTRATION DEADLINE: (postmarked no later than) FEBRUARY 9,

1996. After this date, on-site fees apply. A 10% handling fee

will be charged for refunds.



Badges and registration material are not mailed, but will be

available the days of the conference at the registration site in

Intercultural Center. Registration desk open from 8:45 a.m. during the

conference.



Please print clearly:



FIRST NAME__________________________________________________



LAST NAME___________________________________________________



PROFESSIONAL AFFILIATION (e.g. university, place of work)



____________________________________________________________



MAILING ADDRESS_____________________________________________



____________________________________________________________



CITY_____________________________STATE/PROV.________________



ZIP______________COUNTRY____________________________________



TELEPHONE ________________________



FAX    ________________________



E-MAIL  ________________________________________________





Please check here________ if you plan to attend opening-night

plenary session and reception, Thursday, March 14.



Please mark with (X) categories which apply:



Please note that the TUTORIAL conducted by Stephen Krashen is NOT

included with the full conference, daily, or other rates listed

below; there is an additional $40 fee to attend the tutorial

($50.00 after February 9).



NON-GEORGETOWN RATES



                PREREGISTRATION   On-site (after

                (no later than   FEBRUARY 9,

                FEBRUARY 9, 1996)  1996)

Full Conference

(includes Thursday opening

plenary/reception, Friday,

Saturday)            ______ $ 100.00   ______ $ 125.00

Opening plenary/reception only ______ $ 40.00   ______ $ 50.00

Friday only           ______ $ 40.00   ______ $ 50.00

Saturday only          ______ $ 40.00   ______ $ 50.00

Tutorial            ______ $ 40.00   ______ $ 50.00



TOTAL

          ------------------------------------------------





Discounted rates (include Thursday opening plenary/reception,

Friday, and Saturday)



Senior citizens*        ______ $ 40.00  ______ $ 50.00

Students*            ______ $ 40.00   ______ $ 50.00

Tutorial            ______ $ 40.00   ______ $ 50.00



*with copy of I.D.





Group rates available for groups of five or more by FEBRUARY 9

only (no on-site group registration). Please contact Conference

Coordinator to make arrangements.







GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY PREREGISTRATION RATE

(no later than FEBRUARY 9, 1996)



Students (all fees

except tutorial waived

if volunteering)        ______ $ 20.00   ______ $ 30.00

Faculty and staff        ______ $ 25.00   ______ $ 35.00

Tutorial            ______ $ 30.00   ______ $ 40.00







             ------------------------------------------

TOTAL ENCLOSED      $





==================================================================



For more information, please contact Carolyn A. Straehle,

Coordinator  *  GURT 1996  *  Georgetown University

International Language Programs and Research  *  306-U

Intercultural Center  *  Washington, DC 20057-1045

e-mail: gurt[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]guvax.bitnet or gurt[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]guvax.georgetown.edu  *

voice: 202/687-5726  *  fax: 202/687-0699



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 27 Jan 1996 00:00:19 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: chintsy



I checked with a few folks around the office today. One from West Va.

natively knew only  chinchy ; another from NJ (also an "on line" speaker)

uses  chinchy  for people,  chintzy  for things (confirming an earlier

self-report by a New Englander: Virginia Clark, what do your students say?);

a third, from California, somewhat uncertainly recognized  chinchy  for things

and  chintzy  for people, a reversal of the previous. This might fit with

Tom's identification of the latter as primary for the intermontane West.



    in%"ads-l[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu"

--Rudy Troike (rtroike[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccit.arizona.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 26 Jan 1996 23:50:01 -0800

From:  Kim & Rima McKinzey  rkm[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SLIP.NET 

Subject: Re: expressions -Reply



At 9:50 AM 1/26/96, Molly Dickmeyer wrote:

 Rima:

 

 Where I come from (PA German country), this is among the highest of

 compliments. I agree with you're theory of it implying experience,

 but I'm not sure about sophistication, necessarily, beyond being

 "civilized"; "and wore shoes" might be the equivalent of saying "and

 walks upright," if you get my drift. There's also an element of

 having common sense and the "right" priorities. A related saying is

 "been around long enough to know what's what."

 

Molly,



Thanks for the response. The expression must be wider spread, however,

since said grandmother-in-law has lived her entire life around the

Texas-Oklahoma border and is of English heritage as far as I know.



Rima



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 27 Jan 1996 16:18:55 -0500

From:  "Bethany K. Dumas"  dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKUX.UTCC.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Varieties of American English



I find myself in an unusual situation. I am teaching 472, Varieties of

American English, this semester. Though the course has a formal

prerequisite, in practice few students come in with much background.



I had planned to use Walt Wolfram's book on AE dialects as the basic text

with some supplemental material from my own work. IN Jan I learned that

the bookstore had lost the textbook order. When they called Walt's

publisher, they were told that the book went out of print in Dec. We could

not round up enough used copies to use.



Sooooo: I am taking packets to Graphic Creations and trying to stay ahead

of my students as I do so. The material I am using is from a ms. of what

may be a book someday. Modeled on Peter Trudgill's book on British

English varieties, it contains chapters on major varieties. For each, it

describes the history and provenance of the variety, then gives major

phonological features and (sometimes) major morphological and syntactic

features. Then there is a transcript (in normal orthography) of one or more

speakers of the variety (there is an accompanying tape). Detailed footnotes

document other characteristics of the variety. I conducted my own

interviews for the original sections of the ms. and I worked hard

to get clusters of interesting features in brief passages. I do not

yet have all the interviews I need to complete the ms.



Sooooo2: I am putting together reading materials from other scholars for

my students. Over the next week I shall be completing my compilation. I

will be in the library most of the time. However, if you know of a recent

or obscure (or unpublished) work that I should know about, I would be

grateful if you would mention it to me.



Here's what the course looks like:



Description: Phonological, morphological, & syntactic characteristics of

major social and regional varieties of American English: origins,

functions, & implications for cultural pluralism. Prereq: 371 or 372 or

Linguistics 200 or consent of instructor. Undergraduate and graduate credit.



Text: Dumas, B. K. 1996. Varieties of real-world English. Ms. available from

Graphic Creations, Knoxville (2, possibly 3 packets).



Topics:



Elements/dimensions of linguistic variation; Network English (draft complete)

The Myth & Reality of "Standard English"; The Reasons for

Language Variation

Language Variation Research: History and Current Status

African-American Vernacular English (AAVE) (draft complete)

"The Logic of Nonstandard Dialects"

Southern Mountain English (SME) (draft complete)

Inland Northern English

Southern White English (Coastal, Inland)

Eastern New England

Five Special Cases: Pennsylvania Dutch, Louisiana Creole, Tangier Island,

Charleston, Va. Piedmont (partial draft)

Speakers of New World Spanish (partial draft)

American English Onstage: Dialect Simulation (draft complete)

Appendix A: "Listening Guide for American Tongues"

Appendix B: Dialect Interference in Composition (draft complete)





Bethany K. Dumas, J.D., Ph.D.  | Applied Linguistics, Language & Law

Dep't of English, UT, Knoxville | EMAIL: dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu

415 McClung Tower        | (423) 974-6965 | FAX (423) 974-6926

Knoxville, TN 37996-0430    | See Webpage at http://hamlet.la.utk.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 27 Jan 1996 16:17:30 -0500

From:  Michal Hirschberger  michal1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NETQUANDRY.NET 

Subject: FAQ 1 / *STOP*......... before you buy another over-priced USA

     magazine at the store or by subscription!  GET A WHOLE YEAR FREE!



-----  NOTE:  Please first read my note which appears below the "Request

for more info Form." Then, to get more info, just fill out the "Request

for More Info" form completely and *FAX* or *SMAIL* it back to the company.

You will get a quick reply via email within 1 business day of receipt of

the info request form below.



IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR THOSE FAXING IN THEIR REPLY: Please make sure you

return *only* the below form and *no part* of this message other than the

actual form below. If you do not know how to cut and paste the below form

onto a fresh clean blank page for faxing, then you may re-type the below

form, as long as you copy it line for line *exactly.* This is necessary in

order for them to be able to process the tremendous number of replies that

they get daily.



Your fax goes directly onto their 4.2 gigabyte computer hard drive, not

paper, and all incoming fax calls are set-up to be *auto-terminated* if

your fax:

1. has a cover page;

2. is more than one page

3. does not begin with the "cut here/begin" line from the below form

4. does not end with the "cut here/end" line from the below form.

5. has any handwritten info. on it (info must must be filled out *only*

  with your computer keyboard or typewriter keyboard). This last

  provision re: no handwriting on the form applies to requests sent in

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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

NOTE: Their fax line is open 24 hrs. per day / 7 days per week. If you

have trouble getting through to their fax, or do not have a fax machine at

work or at home, just drop the below form to them via smail (airmail or

first class mail).

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^







*------------cut here/begin-------------------------------------------*

REQUEST FOR MORE INFO: please return *only* this section (with no cover

page) via 1-page fax to:

               718-967-1550 in the USA



or via smail (airmail) to:  Magazine Club Inquiry Center

                     Att. FREE Catalogue-by-email Dept.

                     PO Box 990

                     Staten Island NY 10312-0990



Sorry, but incomplete forms *will not* be acknowledged. If you do not

have an email address, or access to one, they will not be able to help you

until you do have one. If you saw this message, then you should have one. :)



Name:

Internet email address:

Smail home address:

City-State-Zip:

Country:

Work Tel. #:

Work Fax #:

Home Tel. #:

Home Fax #:



How did you hear about us (name of person who referred you or the area of

the internet that you saw us mentioned in): Referral by: Michal Hirschberger.

012796-l



Name of USA mags you currently get on the newsstand or in the store:



Name of USA mags you currently get on the newsstand or in the store:



Name of USA mags you currently get on a subscription basis, through the mail:



Name of USA mags you would like price quotes on when we call you:



Catalogue format desired (list "1," "2," "3" or "4"):



*------------cut here/end--------------------------------------------*





Catalogue Format Options:

1. 19-Part email- can be read by EVERYONE (~525 K Total).

2. For more advanced computer users: attached text file ~525K - you

   must know how to download an attached text file and then be able to

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3. For more advanced Macintosh computer users: compressed attached

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4. For expert computer users: compressed attached text file, created with

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Hi fellow 'netters,



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Within the USA, for their USA members, they are cheaper than all their

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Overseas, on the average, they are generally around one-fourth to one-half

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feel that mgazines should not be a luxury overseas.  In the USA, people

buy magazines and then toss them after reading them for just a few minutes

or hours. They are so cheap in the USA!  Well, this company would like to

make it the same way for their overseas members. They are also cheaper

than all their competitors in the USA and overseas, including the

publishers themselves!  This is their price guarantee. Around one-half

their business comes from overseas, so they are very patient with new

members who only speak limited English as a 2nd language.



Their prices are so cheap because they deal direct with each publisher and

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They will send you their DELUXE EMAIL CATALOGUE (around 525K-big and

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Please do not email me as I am just a happy customer and a *busy* student.

I don't have time to even complete my thesis in time, let alone run my

part-time software business! Please fill out the above form and carefully

follow the intructions above to get it to them via fax or smail.



They guarantee to beat all their competitors' prices. Sometimes they are

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They assured me that if I ever do, they will beat it.



They have been very helpful and helped me with all my address changes as I

haved moved from one country to another.



They have a deal where you can get a free 1 yr. sub to a new magazine from

a special list of over 295 popular titles published in the USA.  They will

give you this free 1 yr. sub when you place your first paid order with them

to a renewal or new subscription to any of the over 1,500 different popular

USA titles they sell.



They can arrange delivery to virtually any country and I think they have

clients in around 45 or 46 countries now. Outside the USA there is a

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when I moved from one country to another.



The owner thinks of his service as a "club" and his clients as "members"

(even though there is no extra fee to become a member - your first purchase

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orders (after your first order) via E-mail.



He has some really friendly young ladies working for him, who seem to know

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he will even call you there, as long as you are interested, but I think he

still makes all his overseas calls on the weekends, I guess cause the long

distance rates are cheaper then.



He only likes to take new members from referrals from satisfied existing

members and he does virtually no advertising. When I got set-up, they had

a 2-3 week waiting list for new members to be called back so that they

could join up. (Once you are an existing member, they help you immediately

when you call. ) I think they are able to get back to prospective new

members the same day or within a few days now, as they have increased

their staff. I am not sure about this.........but if you email the above

form to them, that is the way to get started!



They will send you their DELUXE EMAIL CATALOGUE (around 525K-big and

juicey) !)...if you completely fill out the form above. It has lists of

all the freebies, lists of all the titles they sell, titles broken down by

categories and detailed descriptions on nearly 1,200 of the titles that

they sell.



They then send you email that outlines how his club works and the list of

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Sincerely,



Michal Hirschberger





ps. please forward a copy of this message to all your friends on the net

who you think might be interested in it! It is a great deal! If you join

and then they join after you, you will earn a free 1 yr. subscription for

each new person you get to join after you join!  If you exceed 25

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Chanukah or any other occasion. Please be kind enough to mention my name

when you join.  I will then get a free magazine for a year for referring

you.

Thank you.



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 27 Jan 1996 19:19:02 EST

From:  Beth Lee Simon  simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Varieties of American English



I must have lucked out with the last order of Wolfram's book. I used

it for my Linguistics and the Teacher of English, for the fall semester just

ended.



beth



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 27 Jan 1996 18:35:48 CST

From:  mlbroom[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SAUMAG.EDU

Subject: pictures taken/pictures made



When we moved to southern Arkansas nearly eleven years ago I noticed people

saying, "She had her picture made at school yesterday." or "I wonder where

this picture was made." In the western states where I've lived, Washington,

Oregon, Calif. Arizona, etc. people would say, "She had her picture taken at

school yesterday." In what other areas of the country do people use "made"

instead of "taken"?  Marla



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 27 Jan 1996 20:43:10 EST

From:  Boyd Davis  FEN00BHD[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UNCCVM.UNCC.EDU 

Subject: Re: chintsy



I heard 'chinchy' fairly frequently growing up in and around Louisville,

from older people, usually with rural ties. I always heard it applied to

people, not things, as in 'Don't be chinchy' when the recipient wanted

a larger piece of cake, more room on the sofa, etc. While I heard it

applied as a comment laden with opprobrium about women, I have never

heard it applied to a man's behavior.

  Chintzy meant 'sleazy, poor quality' and applied to fabrics, clothing,

upholstery, rooms, and on occasion, parties that, having some formality

about their occasion, weren't lavish or welcoming or something enough to

suit the speaker's notion of propriety.



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 27 Jan 1996 21:43:26 -0500

From:  Jeutonne Brewer  brewerj[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NR.INFI.NET 

Subject: Re: pictures taken/pictures made



I've heard and used expressions like "She had her picture made..." all

my life--Oklahoma, Texas (Amarillo and Houston), Arkansas (Newport and

Searcy, mainly), and now in North Carolina. Of course, I have variation

between taking picture and making pictures. I think (although I haven't

thought about this before) that I take picures with camera in hand, but

I made/took the pictures I'm showing to someone.





**************************************************

* jpbrewer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]hamlet.uncg.edu           *

*   Jeutonne P. Brewer             *

*   Department of English           *

*   University of North Carolina at Greensboro *

*   Greensboro, NC 17412            *

* brewerj[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]iris.uncg.edu             *

* brewerj[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]fagan.uncg.edu            *

* brewerj[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nr.infi.net              *

**************************************************



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 26 Jan 1996 to 27 Jan 1996

************************************************





There are 10 messages totalling 181 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. pictures taken/pictures made (3)

 2. Varieties of American English

 3. cheap folks

 4. Chinchy to Ginchy

 5. legacy

 6. carried my cousin to the store (3)



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 28 Jan 1996 00:48:47 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: pictures taken/pictures made



 From Deep South Texas, it sounds natural to me to have one's picture MADE

at school -- it happened to me every year in elementary school. It seemed

(and seems) to carry a bit of inescapable coercion with it, or something

institutional and professional. I would certainly go to a professional

photographer to have pictures made for a graduation, a yearbook, a wedding,

etc. But I (or a friend or relative with a camera) would be more likely

to take pictures, and such pictures more likely to be taken than made.



--Rudy Troike (rtroike[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccit.arizona.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 28 Jan 1996 02:53:54 -0500

From:  Benjamin Barrett  Gogaku[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GNN.COM 

Subject: Re: pictures taken/pictures made



 Date:     Sun, 28 Jan 1996 00:48:47 -0700

 From: Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 



  From Deep South Texas, it sounds natural to me to have one's picture MADE

 at school -- it happened to me every year in elementary school. It seemed

 (and seems) to carry a bit of inescapable coercion with it, or something

 institutional and professional. I would certainly go to a professional

 photographer to have pictures made for a graduation, a yearbook, a wedding,

 etc. But I (or a friend or relative with a camera) would be more likely

 to take pictures, and such pictures more likely to be taken than made.



This sounds a little more gentle to my ears. I had my pictures DONE is a

possibility (though low) for me, from Seattle.



Benjamin Barrett



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 28 Jan 1996 01:04:00 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Varieties of American English



Bethany,

    I had exactly the same problem with finding Walt Wolfram's book out

of print. However, I take a more historical + varieties approach in my course

just titled American English, so the gap was not so damaging. In the past

I've used Marckwardt's book for the historical part, and used the segment

on Shakespeare's English and British variants from MacNeil's The Story of

English as background grounding for the original settlement.



    Thanks for sharing the information on your course. It sounds as though

you have put together quite a lot of interesting and useful material.



    _MY_ big question, to anyone who may have a suggestion, is that I have

found an unusual number of English lit majors in the course this time, as a

result of having included the course in a new Literature and Language

undergraduate specialization we have just started. As a result, to help

motivate the students, and make the course more relevant to their literary

studies, I can't stay with my usual syllabus as a purely linguistic course,

but need to add some readings, and/or look at some literary selections that

relate to language variety and literature. Being illiterate as I am, I would

appreciate any suggestions as to possible inclusions, or places to look.

TIA, as the surfers say,



    Rudy

    --Rudy Troike (rtroike[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccit.arizona.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 28 Jan 1996 12:33:45 -0500

From:  Donna Metcalf  Ddonna[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Re: pictures taken/pictures made



 From two of my favorite stories. Southern writers, both.

Truman Capote (Alabama) in "A Christmas Memory" says of the people who

receive their fruitcakes, "Or the young Wistons, A California couple whose

car one afternoon broke down outside the house and who spent a pleasant hour

chatting with us on the porch (young Mr. Wiston snapped our picture, the only

one we've ever had taken),"



And Zora Neale Hurston (Florida) in "Their Eyes Were Watching God" explains

how Janie's grandmother learned that she herself was black: "Ah didn't know

Ah wuzn't white till Ah was round six years old. Wouldn't have found it out

then, but a man come long takin' pictures and without askin' anybody, Shelby,

dat was de oldest boy, he told him to take us...So when we looked at de

picture and everybody got pointed out there wasn't nobody left except a real

dark little girl with long hair standing by Eleanor. Dat's where Ah wuz

s'posed to be, but Ah couldn't recognize dat dark chile as me."

Donna Metcalf



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:08:24 CST

From:  "Donald M. Lance"  ENGDL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU 

Subject: Re: cheap folks



I echo Rudy's comment on 'chinchy'. I recall being "corrected" at some

point as an adult and didn't appreciate the input because the "correct-

speaker" also had a different meaning for 'chintzy' than I had for

'chinchy'. I don't recall, but he was probably a speaker of SWINE, and

I spoke lowly South Midland. 'Pinchy'/'Pinche' was also useful as a

negative epithet because it carried some other savory connotations that

called for careful use. You have to have lived in the Valley to understand

the nuances.          DMLance



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 28 Jan 1996 12:11:01 -0700

From:  William King  WFKING[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Chinchy to Ginchy



Voiced stop ginchy as in ginko.

Bill



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 28 Jan 1996 13:54:25 -0700

From:  William King  WFKING[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: legacy



I've always associated the term "legacy" with software. The businesses

that implemented computer systems in the 1960's were typically huge with

huge data bases. Rather than replace earlier programs, they updated them.

There are problems with this. The earlier programs were written with the

limitations of the hardware in mind. Earlier programs made use of commands

such as "goto" which, by the time I was studying IBM COBOL in the early '80s,

was considered a command of last resort. Another problem was that code

was written for equipment that was replaced (air traffic control apparently

does not have this problem) by programmers who had since left with the

logic that motivated the code. Later code could be incompatible with

earlier code, or earlier code that was deemed a problem would be deleted

only to result in other problems six months later.

The biggest problem coming up with legacy software is not Windows '95

but rather the year 2000. Many really big systems out there interpret

the last two numbers of the year as the year. The 00 of 2000 for many

computers will be read as 1900 unless this is corrected. "The date of

birth of the individual you have claimed as a deduction on line...

etc." I think that this usage will prevail given the circumstances.

Bill King



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 28 Jan 1996 17:19:26 CST

From:  mlbroom[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SAUMAG.EDU

Subject: carried my cousin to the store



O.K. here's another one from southern Arkansas. People native to here often

say: "I have to carry my cousin to the store." When I first heard this I

thought the cousin had trouble walking and had to be scooped up in the person's



arms, but they just meant that they were taken to the store in the car.

I would say: "I have to take my cousin to the store." Comments?



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 28 Jan 1996 18:26:02 -0400

From:  "Bethany Dumas, UTK"  DUMASB[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Re: carried my cousin to the store



That's SGS (Standard General Southern) so far as I know.



Bethany, who has heard it all over TX, ARK, LA, TN and who also knows that it is used in AL and GA.



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 28 Jan 1996 17:35:37 -0600

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: carried my cousin to the store



  say: "I have to carry my cousin to the store." When I first heard this I

  [....]

  I would say: "I have to take my cousin to the store." Comments?



What kind of comments are you looking for? It's normal Southern. It

might could happen that you carry your cousin to the store but discover

when y'all get there that it's a waste of time since she's too chinchy

to buy anything.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 27 Jan 1996 to 28 Jan 1996

************************************************





There are 20 messages totalling 730 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. carried my cousin to the store (4)

 2. Expanded outline of 'American Tongues' videotape for those interested

 3. whoop (6)

 4.  No subject given 

 5. chintsy

 6. delete

 7. whoop(s) (2)

 8. whoop and positive `any longer'

 9. whoop(s) and woops

 10. why are ships referred to as she (fwd) (2)



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Jan 1996 00:18:47 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: carried my cousin to the store



That's an old one. The first time I heard anyone make that sort of comment

about it was from C. M. Wise, back about 1963, who said he had the same

reaction when he first moved to Louisiana. Having always heard and used

that form, what seemed funny to me was someone taking such a literal

interpretation of it. Sort of comparable to the first time I heard a New

Yorker talk about standing on line, and I assumed that there was a painted

line on the ground that he stood on. "Take" is a semantically very weak

form, or can be interpreted as coercion. Does "I have to take my cousin to

the store" imply force? Dragging by the hair? How does one "take" another

person somewhere? That is the REALLY peculiar usage. But "carry" obviously

implies a vehicle, and that of course is exactly what one is doing, carrying

the other person in your conveyance (wagon, car, Lear jet) so the person does

not have to walk. Makes MUCH better sense. Certainly better than kidnapping.

    --Rudy Troike (rtroike[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccit.arizona.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Jan 1996 06:52:58 -0600

From:  "Salikoko S. Mufwene"  s-mufwene[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UCHICAGO.EDU 

Subject: Re: carried my cousin to the store



In message Mon, 29 Jan 1996 00:18:47 -0700,

 Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU  writes:



  That's an old one. The first time I heard anyone make that sort of comment

  about it was from C. M. Wise, back about 1963, who said he had the same

  reaction when he first moved to Louisiana. Having always heard and used

  that form, what seemed funny to me was someone taking such a literal

  interpretation of it. (...) But "carry" obviously

  implies a vehicle, and that of course is exactly what one is doing,

  carrying the other person in your conveyance (wagon, car, Lear jet) so

  the person does not have to walk.



  This is quite informative for me, although I have missed the question it

answers. "Carry" is used more or less the same way in Gullah and Jamaican

Creole. In both it may have the meaning of 'drive', either as 'drive a car'

("kyah ye kyah/cah home") or 'drive a person' ("kyah Betty home"--ignore the

possible meaning 'carry Betty's home').



Sali.

**********************************************************************

Salikoko S. Mufwene        s-mufwene[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uchicago.edu

University of Chicago       312-702-8531; FAX: 312-702-9861

Department of Linguistics

1010 East 59th Street

Chicago, IL 60637

**********************************************************************



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:52:03 +0200

From:  John Hopkins  John.Hopkins[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CSC.FI 

Subject: Expanded outline of 'American Tongues' videotape for those interested



29 January 1996

Dear ADS-L Readers,



Last December Bethany Dumas and Dennis Preston circulated drafts of a

content outline for the "American Tongues" videotape, in conjunction with

discussion on several editions of the tape that may be extant.



I recalled that I had ordered the tape through the USIS post in Helsinki

back in 1989 for an American Studies Conference here, though I hadn't used

it in class since its 57-minute length was longer than the class period

for the course in which it best fit then. I now have an advanced course

which meets for a double period, for which the 57-minute length is okay.



Last week I took a few hours to expand Bethany's and Dennis' outlines to

include somewhat more detail. I am appending a copy in case this may be

useful to others as well. It is still in 'draft form', and I am open to

corrections from those of you who have (and use) the tape.



There is no indication in the credits of a version number, and I also do

not know whether USIA has a special edition for circulation to USIS posts

overseas, but can report that the line "Southerners talk like niggers"

that was identified under #22 in Bethany and Dennis' outlines is NOT

present in the tape that I have.



With best wishes,

John D. Hopkins

Lecturer in American Language & Culture

FAST Intercultural Area Studies Program

Department of Translation Studies

University of Tampere, Finland

=========================================================================

        Content Outline for 'American Tongues' Videotape

          AV2E (FAST-US-8) U.S. English #2; Hopkins

              (57 minutes running time)



American Tongues surveys regional variety, standards, the influence of

foreign languages, ethnic and gender differences, and presents attitudes

towards and stereotypes of U.S. regional ideolects and sociolects.



('AA' and 'EA' indicate "African American" and "European American")



1.  Southern (AA) "What part of the South was I from ...

   I let 'em guess!"



2.  * "Mary had a little lamb; Its fleece was white as snow; And

    everywhere that Mary went; The lamb was sure to go"



   * Recited by six speakers: (EA) male, (EA) Pennsylvania Dutch

    female, (EA) males, (AA) male child, (EA) female, (EA) female



3.  Texas ranch talk, (EA) "cotton, peanuts and 'taters"



4.  Northern city talk, "I can use more storm windows in my apartment"



5.  (AA) female cheerleaders, "Did you go to the kitty wash"?



6.  Various comments on regional dialects; (EA) on (AA) 'yakety-yak';

   'Pennsylvania Dutch' speaker on being 'dutchified', e.g. "dumb"



7.  Southern (EA) student actors reading Shakespeare: "what sounds funny

   or odd to one person is music to another ..."



8.  Text: 'Accent' or 'dialect' vs 'slang' and 'jargon'



9.  Sales talk (EA male) full of computer jargon



10. Church singing and Tangier Island (VA/MD) fishermen (EA) "I'd

   recognize that speech anywhere ... I figure I sound just like Walter

   Cronkite."



11. Comments on settlement history of US; more regional differences to

   the east; fewer regional differences west of the Mississippi River



12. Sociolinguist Roger Shuy: our speech relates to how we live our

   lives; as people change, so do their dialects



13. Style differences:



   * Appalachia: Kentucky radio call-in marketplace program



   * "I don't talk like a Buckeye ... I'm just a plain old hillbilly."



   * "I thought this was how everyone talked until I went into the

     Navy"



   * Cratis Williams, folklorist, on rhythms of Appalachian dialect



   * Boot salesman "He might could wear it in a eight and a half"



   * Strong emphasis in Appalachia on the integrity of an individual:

    one must talk around a subject half an hour or so before getting

    to it.



   * Ohio "Midwest, straight American, bland." "We don't talk funny in

    Columbus, but if you want funny, go about 70 miles south."



   * Truck stop restaurant at 7:30 in the morning



   * Texas & 'jackalope': Historian A.C. Greene "Most westerners in

    their speaking are more open, more forthright; Texans are not

    supposed to hide anything"; training cow dogs, "I'm stupid ... you

    need to everyday train those dogs..."



14. Text, certain foreign language influences can be seen in different

   parts of the country: German in PA Dutch area, African languages with

   the Gullah dialect of South Carolina, French with Louisiana Cajun



15. NYC 'Pastrami King' deli: 'chicken fried steak, hush puppies on the

   side, cream gravy and ice tea' vs 'kishka, knish, bialys...'



16. Regional lexical differences:



   * RI ('cabinet' instead of milk shake)



   * Pittsburgh ('gum band' for rubber band)



   * Hawaii ('pau hana' for the work's done, finished, over with)



   * Louisiana ("jambalaya" spicy rice stew)



   * Texas: "antigogglin" for catty [or kitty]-cornered; Pennsylvania

    Dutch area, "snickelfritz" for 'rowdy little kid'



   * NYC "shlep" or "lug" for "carry" (others think 'schlep' is

    'slept')



17. Words tell about people in a particular place: Oklahoma terminology

   for rain storms; Children's language game: we learn language patterns

   and vocabulary from the people around us.



18. Sociolinguist Walt Wolfram: "language learning starts in the home,

   and is influenced by TV and school; most important is the language of

   peers with whom we interact daily, but original dialect is the one we

   fall back to"



19. Southern (AA) female professional, moving back & forth between

   dialects



20. Text: there is no 'Standard' U.S. dialect except 'Network standard.'

   (EA) generic voice of 'directory assistance'; "voice from nowhere"



21. (EA) female New England student on Southern speech "This... 'you all'

   stuff." "When I met my southern boyfriend at Yale I imagined William

   Faulker or Truman Capote; but then I drove home with him to the South

   and the accent became thicker and thicker. That was the end: I was

   not going to have any little southern babies who talked liked that."



22. Regional dialects are associated with what we like or dislike about

   other parts of the country. Ohio Columnist Mike Harden:



    * "New Yorkers think there's rampant brain death west of the

      Hudson."



    * "Ohioans retaliate, and suggest that the reason New Yorkers

      have such nasal accents is that the air up in skyscrapers is so

      thin"



    * Southerners think Northerners are not hospitable (their voices

      sound grating, nasal, and unkind to Southern ears)



    * Northerners mock Southern /a:s/ for /ays/ ("See, ice,

      assholes.")



    * Southern EA females think northern speech is too abrupt, 'cold'



    * Texan Molly Irvin on North's prejudicial stereotypes of

      southerners ("always depicted by WWII Hollywood as 'dumb and

      slow-talking'")



23. Regional stereotypes quickly identify people and places; 'distinctive

   dialects' are often used for villains or comic characters



    * (1) (NJ?) "Prize Fight" youth outside storefront; (2) Speech

      therapist (Born Yesterday) with blonde who'd 'like to learn to

      talk good'; (3) Marlon Brando (On The Waterfront), "a one-way

      ticket to Palookaville ... I could'a had class ... instead I'm

      a bum";



    * But from Twain's "Huck Finn" to Wilder's "Our Town", dialect

      has also been used to make characters appear trustworthy: Rock

      Hudson & Doris Day (in Pillow Talk) use of "sincere"

      country-boy dialect



24. Speech and humor: from Will Rogers to the Borscht Belt, performers

   have used familiar, non-standard dialects to get laughs: Comedian

   Robert Klein, "Georgians talk in questions [rising intonation]; no

   wonder they lost the Civil War, the troops couldn't understand what

   do do (when the officers called out 'charge?')"



25. Linguistically insecure EA female feels bad when she can't 'speak

   well'



26. Consequences of speaking a nonstandard or 'noticed' variety (Brooklyn

   speaker ('identified with slum') trying to pronounce "farmer" with

   speech coach). People may make fun of you. Non-standard dialects

   are not what the corporate world is looking for. Speech therapist

   Dennis Beck says the company can't have people representing them who

   don't 'sound smart'



27. Even a single place can have many accents: Metropolitan Boston

   examples from the North End; Back Bay/Beacon Hill (but standing in

   Fenway); Dorchester; and South Boston/Dorchester.



28. Wolfram: it is easier to decide which dialects are 'better' than

   those which are 'worse'; 'better' depends on social stereotypes: we

   tend to think of urban as better than rural, EA better than AA,

   educated better than uneducated, middle class better than lower

   class, etc. If one belongs to a stigmatized group, one's speech also

   becomes stigmatized. If one speaks a dialect, one's professional

   performance must be better.



29. "Three ways of speaking: Cultured, white trash ('uneducated') &

   Black" "Let's don't let no stump knock no hole in the bottom of this

   here boat"



30. "Once you learn how the social system works, you need to be at least

   one cut above everyone you're competing with"



31. New Orleans (EA) females on style-shifting. "Look at them beautiful

   girls. If they'd keep their mouths shut, they'd be perfect."



32. Upper-crust dialects stand out just as much as the blue collar ones;

   Boston 'Brahmins' discussing Charles Dickens, etc.



33. Boston North Enders (Italian-American) revel in the way they speak,

   and often intentionally 'overdo' it. "Chris fucked up big time ...

   He took a piss test." Philip exploits North End vernacular: "The

   women, they eat it up, [and the guys] You can intimidate people with

   your verbal actions." But the dialect is only effective locally;

   when his brothers went to college the way they spoke was a liability;

   now, back home, they cringe to hear Philip speak.



34. Group solidarity function of American Black English. Educator Norma

   Stokes says the American public has not accepted Black English the

   same way it has accepted different varieties of white American

   speech.



35. Dilemma of whether Blacks should use Black English or standard

   English (and then be regarded as 'outsiders') (1) "I don't want my

   boys sounding like white males." (2) "She a school girl instead of a

   mama girl."



36. Black vernacular only effective 'on the corner with your brothers'.

   Dialect is 'political' for group identification, but also

   employment...



37. Renewal of pride in regional dialects, often exploited in advertising

   ("Foat Wuth ah luv yew", "I luv Louavull"). We feel a special bond

   with people who speak the way we do. Many of us use one dialect for

   work and another for home and social life.



38. Frederic Cassidy (editor, DARE [Dictionary of American Regional

   English] on dialect leveling -- local dialects won't change unless

   they prevent or 'spoil' comprehension/communication. We'll never all

   speak the same way.



39. Attitudes towards varieties; 'why should I change'? Recap of

   regional dialects in film's closing credits.



*************************************************************************

John D. Hopkins (Hopkins[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]csc.fi)           FAX +358-31-2157200

University of Tampere, Finland     Phone +358-31-2156116, or -3460345

*************************************************************************



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Jan 1996 07:44:55 -0800

From:  Sylvia Swift  madonna[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]VIOLET.BERKELEY.EDU 

Subject: Re: carried my cousin to the store



my middle tennessee relatives (the older generations, anyway) use "carry"

to mean to conduct or lead a person by vehicle (salikoko's terser "drive

a person") and "tote" to mean to transport by hand. thus, we carried her

to clarksville to see the doctor, he toted those books to school for me.

this distinction helped me when i first encountered russian verbs of

motion, which involve similar logical hierarchies.



carry me back to old virginie . . . .



sylvia swift

madonna[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]violet.berkeley.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:01:51 -0500

From:  "Dale F.Coye"  CoyeCFAT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: whoop



In a paper I'm working on, I discuss the pronunciation of whoop and find to

my amazement that I pronounce it three different ways depending on context.



1.War whoop /hup/, vowel as in food



2.They whooped it up /wUpt/, vowel as in look.



3.She gave a whoop /wup/ as in food.



4. whooping cough I could say all three in addition to /hUp/.





I'd like to find out if this is generally the case and would appreciate your

comments and personal usage. Reply to the list or to...



Dale Coye

The Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching

Princeton, NJ



CoyeCFAT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:47:56 -0500

From:  RACHEL A CALDWELL  racald01[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MOREHEAD-ST.EDU 

Subject:  No subject given 



unsubscibe

c                                                q



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:25:20 CST

From:  "Joan H. Hall"  jdhall[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU 

Subject: Re: chintsy



The folks at DARE have an entry for "chintzy" (=stingy, miserly), labelled

'widespread, but esp Nth, N Midl, West.' This contrasts nicely with the

entry for "chinchy," which is labelled 'chiefly Sth, S Midl.'



Joan Hall



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:36:09 -0500

From:  "Dennis R. Preston"  preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PILOT.MSU.EDU 

Subject: Re: whoop



Dale,



All those pronunciations and you never got it right -- [hwup].



I have noticed that in my speech (and I am obviously a [hw] - [w]

distinguisher) that I have [w] in 'exclamatory 'why' ('Why, that's a good

idea') and [hw] in the 'real' one ('Why did you go there'). They are in

absolute complementary distribution.



Back to the topic: I have heard the [h] pronunciation of 'whooping cough,'

but I can't retrieve the details.



Dennis (good with [hw]-[w]; crappy with [I]-[E]) Preston









 In a paper I'm working on, I discuss the pronunciation of whoop and find to

 my amazement that I pronounce it three different ways depending on context.

 

 1.War whoop /hup/, vowel as in food

 

 2.They whooped it up /wUpt/, vowel as in look.

 

 3.She gave a whoop /wup/ as in food.

 

 4. whooping cough I could say all three in addition to /hUp/.

 

 

 I'd like to find out if this is generally the case and would appreciate your

 comments and personal usage. Reply to the list or to...

 

 Dale Coye

 The Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching

 Princeton, NJ

 

 CoyeCFAT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:35:53 CST

From:  Lisa Pogoff  POGOFFL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MDH-ENVH.HEALTH.STATE.MN.US 

Subject: delete



Please remove my name from the ADS-L. Thanks.



Lisa Pogoff

Phone 612/215-0916 Fax 612/215-0975

Internet: lisa.pogoff[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]health.state.mn.us

Work Days: M-Th



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:28:46 -0400

From:  "Bethany K. Dumas, U of Tennessee"  dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Re: whoop



On Mon, 29 Jan 1996, Dale F.Coye wrote:



  In a paper I'm working on, I discuss the pronunciation of whoop and find to

  my amazement that I pronounce it three different ways depending on context.

 

  1.War whoop /hup/, vowel as in food

  2.They whooped it up /wUpt/, vowel as in look.

  3.She gave a whoop /wup/ as in food

  4. whooping cough I could say all three in addition to /hUp/.

 

  I'd like to find out if this is generally the case and would appreciate your

  comments and personal usage.



My practice:



1. /hup/ for me too

2. I'm with Dennis Preston here -- /whUp/

3. /hup/

4. /hUp/ only



Bethany

Bethany K. Dumas, J.D., Ph.D.  | Applied Linguistics, Language & Law

Dep't of English, UT, Knoxville | EMAIL: dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utk.edu

415 McClung Tower        | (423) 974-6965 | FAX (423) 974-6926

Knoxville, TN 37996-0430    | See Webpage at http://hamlet.la.utk.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:54:02 -0800

From:  Dan Moonhawk Alford  dalford[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]S1.CSUHAYWARD.EDU 

Subject: Re: whoop



Count my usage as:



1. /whup/

2. /whup/

3. /whup/

4. /whup/ varies with /hup/ here, an earlier family usage



I'm mostly solidly one vowel and voiceless w when I'm whooping.



  On Mon, 29 Jan 1996, Dale F.Coye wrote:

 

    In a paper I'm working on, I discuss the pronunciation of whoop and find to

    my amazement that I pronounce it three different ways depending on context.

   

    1.War whoop /hup/, vowel as in food

    2.They whooped it up /wUpt/, vowel as in look.

    3.She gave a whoop /wup/ as in food

    4. whooping cough I could say all three in addition to /hUp/.

   

    I'd like to find out if this is generally the case and would appreciate your

    comments and personal usage.

 

 



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:36:06 -0800

From:  Sylvia Swift  madonna[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]VIOLET.BERKELEY.EDU 

Subject: Re: whoop(s)



all four are /whUp/ for me, not to be confused with /whup/ (what daddy

does with the strap) or /wups/ (as in uh-oh).



i've been surprised to see so many people spell that last thing (oops,

uh-oh) as "whoops" in email. have their spell-checkers led them astray?

i've seldom, if ever, written it (though i've said it often enough) but

i assumed it should be "woops."



sylvia swift

madonna[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]violet.berkeley.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:29:49 -0600

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: whoop



  1.War whoop /hup/, vowel as in food

 /hwup/



  2.They whooped it up /wUpt/, vowel as in look.

 /hwup/



  3.She gave a whoop /wup/ as in food.

 /hwup/



  4. whooping cough I could say all three in addition to /hUp/.

 /hup/



  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)

   native speaker of Mississippi English



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Jan 1996 17:04:01 -0500

From:  "Dale F.Coye"  CoyeCFAT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Re: whoop(s)



This word gets more interesting by the minute. I'm not sure how I'd spell



"My daddy whooped me" but I'd say it with oo of took



And as for whoops!   for me it's the vowel of took and no other spelling

is used. Oops is also a word I'd use, with the same vowel.



This reminds me that I'm sure there is a word boundary out there for "whew!"

(my usage) vs. "phew!" (never in a million years).



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:59:14 EST

From:  flanigan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU

Subject: whoop and positive `any longer'



          Ohio University Electronic Communication





  Date: 29-Jan-1996 07:58pm EST



   To: Remote Addressee           ( _mx%"ads-l[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu" )



  From: Beverly Flanigan              Dept: Linguistics

     FLANIGAN                 Tel No:



Subject: whoop and positive `any longer'





  On Dale Coye's request concerning 'whoop':

  1. war /hup/

  2. they /wupt/ it up (though not frequently heard or said, therefore

    somewhat conjectural)

  3. she _didn't_ give a /hup/ (only negative for me, like `anymore')

  4. /hup/ing cough, /wUp/ing cough, /hUp/ing cough (archaic, i.e., from

    my childhood), rarely /hwUp/ing cough (spelling pronunciation,

    trying to sound "medically correct"--maybe even /hwup/ing).



  (Incidentally, perhaps Sylvia Swift has her IPA vowels reversed? Thus,

  /U/ should be /u/ and vice versa; and what Daddy does is /wUHp/='whip'

  alternate [how do we make an upside-down V=stressed schwa here??].

  Similarly, /wh/ should be /hw/, Old English-style. Spell-checkers

  (=spelling pronunciation) may indeed lead us astray.



  On positive `any longer': Although I don't say it, I think it might be

  said here in southern Ohio (if not in Columbus), nor does it seem

  inconsistent with much-attested positive `anymore.' I thought I might

  find it in Labov's "Where do grammars stop?" (1973), where he analyzed

  the form long before Murray (or me, or anyone else, even using Utah and

  Kansas samples!), but he notes instead: "Someone said, `These razor

  blades are going like hot cakes. I hope there's any left." He adds,

  "Not one speaker failed to interpret it correctly. There is no tendency

  whatsoever to supply a negative meaning to _any_ after _hope_. We

  therefore observe that the movement of _any_ into positive contexts is

  not limited to _anymore_" (p. 74). Again, it wouldn't surprise me to

  hear +any longer here; I also recall that one of the NPR guys (Scott

  Simon? Bob Edwards?) is from Louavull, though he puts down his own

  regional speech when he has time to think of a disparaging remark

  before slipping into it himself (ditto for Cokie Roberts, as noted some

  time ago on this list).









Received: 29-Jan-1996 07:59pm



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Jan 1996 18:16:11 -0800

From:  Sylvia Swift  madonna[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]VIOLET.BERKELEY.EDU 

Subject: Re: whoop(s) and woops



as Beverly Flanigan keenly observed:

 

    (Incidentally, perhaps Sylvia Swift has her IPA vowels reversed? Thus,

    /U/ should be /u/ and vice versa; and what Daddy does is /wUHp/='whip'

    alternate [how do we make an upside-down V=stressed schwa here??].

    Similarly, /wh/ should be /hw/, Old English-style.



guilty on both counts. left my ipa spelling in my other pants. i'm hella

chagrined (and it seemed like such a safe thread!). all four have the

vowel of "too" for me. i have seen the e-convention (perhaps on

LINGUIST?) of writing schwa as [AT SYMBOL GOES HERE] (at/each); were daddy to whup me, i'd

need that schwa to describe it.



sylvia swift

madonna[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]violet.berkeley.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:46:39 CST

From:  mlbroom[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SAUMAG.EDU

Subject: Re: carried my cousin to the store



Well, this is interesting. I even learned what SGS means! I guess it is

general if you have grown up hearing it all the time but to a Yankee it was

not what I was used to. Also, we never used the term 'tote' to mean

to transport something by hand. We'd carry in a load of fire wood. Or,

perhaps we'd carry our books home, not tote them.

    Also, I never thought of taking someone somwhere as an act of

force, but now that you mention it, that too makes sense. It's all in the

way you look at it I guess. Thanks, those were exactly the types of comments

I was looking for.  Marla



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:09:31 -0600

From:  Dan Goodman  dsg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU 

Subject: why are ships referred to as she (fwd)



---------- Forwarded message ----------

Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:41:31 -0500 (EST)

From: SEO connect  bveatch[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]winslo.ohio.gov 

To: stumpers-list[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CRF.CUIS.EDU

Subject: why are ships referred to as she





One of our area libraries directed this question to us which we have not been

very successful in answering. Apparently a class has been given the

assignment of finding out why ships and boats are referred to as SHE.

We have looked in all sorts of ship and sea lore books but all we can find

is, yes they are referred to as SHE. Any information and sources as to why

sailing vessels are spoken of in the female gender would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Jan 1996 22:24:46 -0500

From:  Benjamin Barrett  Gogaku[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GNN.COM 

Subject: Re: why are ships referred to as she (fwd)



 One of our area libraries directed this question to us which we have not

  been

 very successful in answering. Apparently a class has been given the

 assignment of finding out why ships and boats are referred to as SHE.

 We have looked in all sorts of ship and sea lore books but all we can find

 is, yes they are referred to as SHE. Any information and sources as to why

 sailing vessels are spoken of in the female gender would be appreciated.



Nothing but a guess here. I always thought it was because sailors were male

and they always talked about being married to the sea, etc, etc. I guess it

could be the other way around, though it seems less likely.



I also have so no particular reason, perhaps, that mother country is the

reason we refer(red) to countries as she also.



yoroshiku

Benjamin Barrett



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:46:01 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: whoop



An intriguing question, and surprising to reflect on. I don't have the

/hw/ : /w/ contrast [NB: it's never been /wh/ in history; that's spelling],

so the delabialization is interesting to find alternating with the /w/:



1. war whoop: /huwp/



2. whoop it up: /wUp/, perhaps varying with /wuwp/



3. gave a whoop: /huwp/ & a holler



4. whooping cough: /huwp/ (I had it.)



[NB2: Especially amongst them of us who are interested in comparing varieties,

it is much more useful to adopt the /iy/, /ey/, /uw/, /ow/ representation of

the nuclei (as happily, Akmajian, Demers, and Harnish do in their linguistics

text from MIT, of all places). I can't imagine describing the Great Vowel

Shift without it.]



    Tip-O-Tex Troike\\\\\



    [rtroike[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccit.arizona.edu]



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 28 Jan 1996 to 29 Jan 1996

************************************************





There are 25 messages totalling 573 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. hella hawkin'

 2. whoop (3)

 3. expressions

 4. why are ships referred to as she (fwd) (6)

 5. carry & tote -- Hop on! (2)

 6. cheap folks

 7. whoop(s) (2)

 8. carried my cousin to the store

 9. Fwd: Re(2): whoop

 10. why are ships referred to as she (fwd) -Reply

 11. Bounced Mail

 12. A whipping/whupping (2)

 13. why are ships referr

 14. "street arab"

 15. why are ships referred to as she (f



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:18:20 -0800

From:  Sylvia Swift  madonna[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]VIOLET.BERKELEY.EDU 

Subject: Re: hella hawkin'



   From January 1996, student paper transcribing recorded conversation:

 

  VAL: Anyways ... Ya check out that little Latin Flava' going' on at Taco

  Bell? You know -- plaid, spikey hair?

 

  JEN: He was hella hawkin'!

 

  VAL: Whatever! (sarcastically, then laughs)



hella was familiar to me from my students. i have seen it spelled

"hella," "helluh," and "hell of"; that last spelling makes me suspect

it's a collapsed form of "hell of a." somehow a hell of a nice guy became

hella nice. i see the hecka form as a pg-rated and not

geographically-bound variant.



i mentioned this thread to a colleague who thinks she understands the

hawkin' element. she cites an llcoolj song from circa 1989 called "round

the way girl," in which hawkin' appears. the line is something like

"while the business men in suits be hawkin' you." hawkin' here means

staring at you. my colleague thinks JEN's meaning is: "he was

totally staring at you."



sylvia swift

madonna[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]violet.berkeley.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:37:05 -0800

From:  Kim & Rima McKinzey  rkm[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SLIP.NET 

Subject: Re: whoop



At 12:01 PM 1/29/96, Dale F.Coye wrote:

Raised in NYC, but mostly in CA Bay Area since 1966



 1.War whoop /hup/, vowel as in food

/woop/

 

 2.They whooped it up /wUpt/, vowel as in look.

/woopt/ or same as you.



 3.She gave a whoop /wup/ as in food.

same as you or /hwoop/.



 4. whooping cough I could say all three in addition to /hUp/.

/hooping/ (and I had it twice as a kid).

 

Rima



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 29 Jan 1996 22:26:22 -0800

From:  THOMAS CLARK  tlc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NEVADA.EDU 

Subject: Re: whoop



Rudy has a very good point about using /ey, iy, ow, ew/

Mine: (Montana, E. Washington)



AND HW for /hw/, because I have it in only one learned place:



1. war /huwp/

2. /huwp/ it up, tonight

3. gave it a /huwp/ and a holler

4. /hwuping/ cough (I had it too), which means my caretakers used /hw/,

and I learned that pronunciation from her (mom) or them (family members

who told me I had it at a young age)

Cheers,

tlc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nevada.edu





On Mon, 29 Jan 1996, Rudy Troike wrote:



  An intriguing question, and surprising to reflect on. I don't have the

  /hw/ : /w/ contrast [NB: it's never been /wh/ in history; that's spelling],

  so the delabialization is interesting to find alternating with the /w/:

 

  1. war whoop: /huwp/

 

  2. whoop it up: /wUp/, perhaps varying with /wuwp/

 

  3. gave a whoop: /huwp/ & a holler

 

  4. whooping cough: /huwp/ (I had it.)

 

  [NB2: Especially amongst them of us who are interested in comparing varieties,

  it is much more useful to adopt the /iy/, /ey/, /uw/, /ow/ representation of

  the nuclei (as happily, Akmajian, Demers, and Harnish do in their linguistics

  text from MIT, of all places). I can't imagine describing the Great Vowel

  Shift without it.]

 

      Tip-O-Tex Troike\\\\\

 

      [rtroike[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccit.arizona.edu]

 



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Jan 1996 09:53:52 -0600

From:  Miriam Meyers  mmeyers[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MSUS1.MSUS.EDU 

Subject: Re: expressions



  "If ice freezes on high water, the water will come back and get it."

  

  "Go back and lick your calf over again."

 

 This reminds me of my grandmother-in-law who, after visiting my husband and

 me for the first time, said of me in a later discussion, that I'd "been

 around and wore shoes." This was said as a compliment and I defined it as

 referring to someone who had more experience or sophistication. I've never

 heard it before or since. Comments?

 

 Rima



"Been around and wore shoes" reminds me of an expression I read about from

alleged Arkansas dialect (re Bill Clinton): "He's been to Memphis."



Miriam Meyers

Metropolitan State University

mmeyers[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]msus1.msus.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Jan 1996 08:44:14 MST

From:  Tom Uharriet  UTOM[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ADMN.SHS.NEBO.EDU 

Subject: Re: why are ships referred to as she (fwd)



   Apparently a class has been given the

   assignment of finding out why ships and boats are referred to as SHE.

   We have looked in all sorts of ship and sea lore books but all we can find

   is, yes they are referred to as SHE. Any information and sources as to why

   sailing vessels are spoken of in the female gender would be appreciated.

 

  Nothing but a guess here. I always thought it was because sailors were male

  and they always talked about being married to the sea, etc, etc. I guess it

  could be the other way around, though it seems less likely.

 

  I also have so no particular reason, perhaps, that mother country is the

  reason we refer(red) to countries as she also.

 

  yoroshiku

  Benjamin Barrett



I think BB is on the right track about the marraige connection. I

have heard of cars--particularly sports cars--being called "she" for

sexual reasons. I don't think I need to explain the analogy in

detail, but it's along the line of the male driver climbing in,

reving up those engines, and going for a joy ride.



Tom



utom[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]admn.shs.nebo.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Jan 1996 07:57:17 -0800

From:  Dan Moonhawk Alford  dalford[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]S1.CSUHAYWARD.EDU 

Subject: Re: why are ships referred to as she (fwd)



I have a buddy who's an old salt, and one of my specialties has been

animacy in English pronouns for quite a while, so here goes:



For whatever reason (probably lack of females on board and the sea

herself being called she), ships are indeed SHE -- but only as long as

they are 'in use'; as soon as a military ship is decommissioned, it goes

back to being called 'it'. Therefore the animacy itself has to do with

the animate activity going on, and the 'she' is dependent on a functional

context.



On Mon, 29 Jan 1996, Benjamin Barrett wrote:



   One of our area libraries directed this question to us which we have not

    been

   very successful in answering. Apparently a class has been given the

   assignment of finding out why ships and boats are referred to as SHE.

   We have looked in all sorts of ship and sea lore books but all we can find

   is, yes they are referred to as SHE. Any information and sources as to why

   sailing vessels are spoken of in the female gender would be appreciated.

 

  Nothing but a guess here. I always thought it was because sailors were male

  and they always talked about being married to the sea, etc, etc. I guess it

  could be the other way around, though it seems less likely.

 

  I also have so no particular reason, perhaps, that mother country is the

  reason we refer(red) to countries as she also.

 

  yoroshiku

  Benjamin Barrett

 



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Jan 1996 08:08:03 -0800

From:  Dan Moonhawk Alford  dalford[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]S1.CSUHAYWARD.EDU 

Subject: Re: carry & tote -- Hop on!



While watching this fascinating carry/tote discussion go on, I'm reminded

of my astonishment in the early '70s when, while on the No. Cheyenne

Reservation in SE Montana for four years, I consistently heard the phrase

"Hop on!" when inviting people into your car -- as if inviting them to

hop on to a wagon, buckboard, etc. Is this phrase fossilized anywhere

else in the country?



Moonhawk



*Do you breathe the air, or does 'it' breathe you?*



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:12:47 -0600

From:  Miriam Meyers  mmeyers[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MSUS1.MSUS.EDU 

Subject: Re: cheap folks



I'd actually forgotten about 'chinchy' until this discussion started on the

list. It was very much part of my Atlanta dialect (40's and 50's) and

referred to stingy people.



 I echo Rudy's comment on 'chinchy'. I recall being "corrected" at some

 point as an adult and didn't appreciate the input because the "correct-

 speaker" also had a different meaning for 'chintzy' than I had for

 'chinchy'. I don't recall, but he was probably a speaker of SWINE, and

 I spoke lowly South Midland. 'Pinchy'/'Pinche' was also useful as a

 negative epithet because it carried some other savory connotations that

 called for careful use. You have to have lived in the Valley to understand

 the nuances.          DMLance



Miriam Meyers

Metropolitan State University

mmeyers[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]msus1.msus.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Jan 1996 08:27:56 -0800

From:  Dan Moonhawk Alford  dalford[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]S1.CSUHAYWARD.EDU 

Subject: Re: whoop(s)



My own idiosyncratic spelling for your usage is 'whyw!' Just does it

better for me, somehow, without a vowel in there.



On Mon, 29 Jan 1996, Dale F.Coye wrote:



  This reminds me that I'm sure there is a word boundary out there for "whew!"

  (my usage) vs. "phew!" (never in a million years).

 



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:53:11 CST

From:  "Donald M. Lance"  ENGDL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU 

Subject: Re: carried my cousin to the store



Doesn't the song say "carry me back to ole Virginny"?

           DMLance



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Jan 1996 12:01:53 EST

From:  Undetermined origin c/o LISTSERV maintainer

      owner-LISTSERV[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UGA.CC.UGA.EDU 

Subject: Re: carry & tote -- Hop on!



Here in New York, people are invited to "hop in" to cars.



Vicki Rosenzweig

vr%acmcr.uucp[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]murphy.com | rosenzweig[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]acm.org

New York, NY



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:22:46 -0500

From:  Donald Larmouth  LARMOUTD[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GBMS01.UWGB.EDU 

Subject: Re: why are ships referred to as she (fwd)



Seems to me there's something more to this than being "wedded to the sea." My

sense is that favorite male possessions of many kinds are referred to as "she,"

including favorite automobiles (not just hot rods or sports cars), trucks,

rifles, shotguns, boats, motorcycles, tractors, fly rods, big game trolling

reels, etc., especially when human qualities are attributed to them

(faithfulness, power, dependability, contrariness, etc.). It might be

interesting to see just how extensive the range really is. The list I've given

here is well attested in my own experience, but no doubt there are other

objects that are associated with female pronouns and even given female names

(until recently, that included tropical storms and hurricanes, but now there is

gender balance in naming storms, at least in the National Weather Service). In

contrast, I suspect that very few possessions are referred to with 'he' (it's

always 'Old Betsy,' never 'Old Bob' or 'Old Fred').



DWL



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:38:24 CST

From:  "Donald M. Lance"  ENGDL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU 

Subject: Re: whoop



The w/hw variation in 'whoop' shouldn't be surprising -- i.e. the

"complexity" shouldn't be surprising. The spelling suggests an old

word that used to have /hw/ in everyone's English, and now just people

like Dennis Preston and me keep to the old tried and true.

Since the vowel is a back vowel, we should see the loss of /w/ in

some dialects (like the loss of /w/ in 'who') if not in all dialects.

I have /h/ in 'whooping cough' and 'war whoop' but /hw/ in 'to whoop

it up." Can't explain the latter. Also /h/ in 'whooping and hollering'.

Well, I can explain my patterns: my parents' usage. But why did they

keep the /w/ in 'whoop it up' but "lost" the /h/ in 'whoa' and "lost"

the /w/ in other uses of 'whoop'. My usage is strictly from oral tradition,

no booky spelling pronunciations, of course.   DMLance



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Jan 1996 12:51:43 -0400

From:  Barnhart  Barnhart[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HIGHLANDS.COM 

Subject: Fwd: Re(2): whoop



Dear Tom (and the list),



 TLC says:

1. war /huwp/

2. /huwp/ it up, tonight

3. gave it a /huwp/ and a holler

4. /hwuping/ cough (I had it too), which means my caretakers used /hw/,

and I learned that pronunciation from her (mom) or them (family members

who told me I had it at a young age)



 DKB says:



1. war /huwp/

2. /hwuwp/ it up, tonight

3. gave it a /huwp/ and a holler

4. /huwping/ cough



I suppose I might catch myself saying /hwuwp/ and a holler. It sounds

possible to me.

I was born in Chicago and lived there until age 4. The rest of my childhood

was spent north of NYC. My father came from Kansas and my mother from

Wisconsin.



David

Barnhart[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]Highlands.com



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:33:13 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: Re: why are ships referred to as she (fwd)



I'm sure Jespersen has discussed this somewhere at length. My late friend and

colleague David DeCamp back in the 1960's liked to point out that the use

of "she" by males typically referred to large, powerful pieces of equipment

(ships, autos, airplanes, bulldozers) but by contrast, small, annoying insects

were usually referred to as "he" ("Swat that fly!" "Got 'im!"). There is

definitely something Freudian going on here.



    --Rudy Troike (rtroike[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccit.arizona.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:53:22 CST

From:  "Donald M. Lance"  ENGDL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU 

Subject: Re: whoop(s)



A whoopin', whether administered by a parent or in the ring with Mohammed

Ali, has an old vowel alternation that we also see in 'woman'/'women'

and in another word or two that I can't think of at the moment.

              DMLance



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Jan 1996 12:51:16 CST

From:  "Donald M. Lance"  ENGDL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU 

Subject: Re: why are ships referred to as she (fwd)



'She' is the "pronoun of endearment." Not just sports cars and ships.

If you drive up to a full-service gas pump, would you tell the attendant,

"Fill 'im up"? 'Course not. It'd be, "Fill 'er up." A female friend of

mine drives an old car and doesn't like to pump her own gas; she tells

the attendant to "fill him up" and always gets strange looks in return,

as well as more costly service.  DMLance



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:21:36 -0500

From:  Molly Dickmeyer  dickmeye[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JBLSMTP.PHL.LRPUB.COM 

Subject: Re: why are ships referred to as she (fwd) -Reply



How 'bout BB King's guitar, Lucille, as another example?

Molly

dickmeye[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]phl.lrpub.com



    Donald Larmouth  LARMOUTD[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GBMS01.UWGB.EDU  1/30/96, 10:22am    

Seems to me there's something more to this than being "wedded to the

sea." My sense is that favorite male possessions of many kinds are

referred to as "she," including favorite automobiles (not just hot

rods or sports cars), trucks, rifles, shotguns, boats, motorcycles,

tractors, fly rods, big game trolling reels, etc., especially when

human qualities are attributed to them

(faithfulness, power, dependability, contrariness, etc.). It might be

interesting to see just how extensive the range really is. The list

I've given here is well attested in my own experience, but no doubt

there are other objects that are associated with female pronouns and

even given female names

(until recently, that included tropical storms and hurricanes, but

now there is gender balance in naming storms, at least in the

National Weather Service). In contrast, I suspect that very few

possessions are referred to with 'he' (it's always 'Old Betsy,' never

'Old Bob' or 'Old Fred').



DWL



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:22:47 -0600

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Bounced Mail



****************************************************************

 REMINDER: WHEN INCLUDING A PREVIOUS LIST POSTING IN SOMETHING

 YOU'RE SENDING TO THE LIST, BE SURE TO EDIT OUT ALL REFERENCES

 TO ADS-L IN THE HEADERS.

****************************************************************

  Date:     Tue, 30 Jan 1996 12:27:41 -0500

  From: "L-Soft list server at UGA (1.8b)"  LISTSERV[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu 

  Subject:   ADS-L: error report from ADMN.SHS.NEBO.EDU

 

 The enclosed message, found in the ADS-L mailbox and shown under the spool ID

 1894 in the system log, has been identified as a possible delivery error notice

 for the following reason: "Sender:", "From:" or "Reply-To:" field pointing to

 the list has been found in mail body.

 

 -------------------- Message in error (35 lines) --------------------------

  From:     Tom Uharriet  UTOM[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]admn.shs.nebo.edu 

  Organization: Springville High School

  Date:     Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:21:03 MST

  Subject:    Re: carry & tote -- Hop on!

 

    Date sent:   Tue, 30 Jan 1996 12:01:53 EST

    From:      Undetermined origin c/o LISTSERV maintainer

             owner-LISTSERV[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu 

    Subject:    Re: carry & tote -- Hop on!

 

    Here in New York, people are invited to "hop in" to cars.

   

    Vicki Rosenzweig

 

  I hear the same usage in the western states.

 

  Tom Uharriet

  utom[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]admn.shs.nebo.edu

 



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:52:14 +0100

From:  debaron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UIUC.EDU

Subject: Re: why are ships referred to as she (fwd)



The best collections of gendered inanimates are collections of T. Hilding

Svartengren AS 3:83-112; Dialect Notes 6:7-56; Moderna Sprak 48:261-92. I

treat the subject briefly in Grammar and Gender, 101-105.



Dennis







Dennis Baron                      debaron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uiuc.edu



Department of English             office: 217-333-2392

University of Illinois                fax: 217-333-4321

608 South Wright Street            home: 217-384-1683

Urbana, Illinois 61801



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Jan 1996 12:52:04 -0700

From:  Rudy Troike  RTROIKE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU 

Subject: A whipping/whupping



As Don Lance suggests, the vowel here may be affected in the same way that

the initial vowel is in  woman  (for some speakers; I use /ow/). At any

rate, for the "colloquial" pronunciation of  whipping , often represented

orthographically as  whupping , I have a /+/ (= "barred i"), i.e. a high

central vowel, not /I/ nor /U/ nor /[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]/ (schwa). Many people have trouble

recognizing this as a distinct vowel, and may transcribe it as one of the

others, and even when it occurs, for many speakers it is simply an allophone

of one of these phonemes. (I don't push the phonemic status, but simply want

to call attention to the phonetic quality, which I suspect underlies some

of the variable reports on this item in this thread.)



    --Rudy Troike (rtroike[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccit.arizona.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:17:54 -0600

From:  Katherine Catmull  kate[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]BGA.COM 

Subject: Re: A whipping/whupping



On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Rudy Troike wrote:



  At any

  rate, for the "colloquial" pronunciation of  whipping , often represented

  orthographically as  whupping ,



I'd spell it  whuppin' , too, and would have thoght  whoopin'  was a

simple misspelling before reading this thread.



Is whuppin' or whoopin' related to "whop," "whomp," and "whompin'," as in

"I'm gonna whop [or whomp] you upside-a the head"?



Kate Catmull      kate[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]bga.com



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:19:33 EST

From:  "Richard A. Spears"  72103.2357[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]COMPUSERVE.COM 

Subject: Re: why are ships referr



   Seems to me there's something more to this than being "wedded to the sea."

My sense is that favorite male possessions of many kinds are referred to as

"she," including favorite automobiles (not just hot rods or sports cars),

trucks, rifles, shotguns, boats, motorcycles, tractors, fly rods, big game

trolling reels, etc., especially when human qualities are attributed to them

(faithfulness, power, dependability, contrariness, etc.). It might be

interesting to see just how extensive the range really is. The list I've given

here is well attested in my own experience, but no doubt there are other

objects that are associated with female pronouns and even given female names

(until recently, that included tropical storms and hurricanes, but now there

is gender balance in naming storms, at least in the National Weather

Service). In contrast, I suspect that very few possessions are referred to

with 'he' (it's always 'Old Betsy,' never 'Old Bob' or 'Old Fred').   



To this list should be added:



"Put 'er there." = Let's shake hands / Entend your hand to shake my extended

hand.



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 18 Jan 1996 14:32:42 -0500

From:  BARBARA HILL HUDSON  BHHUDSON[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GROVE.IUP.EDU 

Subject: Re: "street arab"



In reference to the term "street arab":



I know that in Baltimore, MD the men who sell produce and sometimes fish from

horse drawn carriages were called street arabs (pronounced with a initial long

a).



BHHudson[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]grove.iup.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:10:09 -0500

From:  "Winfield, Laurie"  lwinfield[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RINET.HUNTON.COM 

Subject: Re: why are ships referred to as she (f



I did the same with my '62 Fury, Wally! Miss him a lot.   --Winfield

 ----------

From: American Dialect Society

To: Multiple recipients of list ADS

Subject: Re: why are ships referred to as she (f

Date: Tuesday, January 30, 1996 2:14PM



'She' is the "pronoun of endearment." Not just sports cars and ships.

If you drive up to a full-service gas pump, would you tell the attendant,

"Fill 'im up"? 'Course not. It'd be, "Fill 'er up." A female friend of

mine drives an old car and doesn't like to pump her own gas; she tells

the attendant to "fill him up" and always gets strange looks in return,

as well as more costly service.  DMLance



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 29 Jan 1996 to 30 Jan 1996

************************************************





There are 8 messages totalling 157 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. any longer & I hope there's any left

 2. "street arab"

 3. Fwd: Re(2): whoop

 4. carried my cousin to the store (2)

 5. whoop(s)

 6. expressions

 7. pshaw



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:15:48 +0000

From:  "E. W. Gilman"  egilman[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]M-W.COM 

Subject: any longer & I hope there's any left



The reason "any" in positive statements seems odd to most of us is

that "any" is what Quirk et al 1985 call nonassertive--that is, it

occurs generally in questions and in negative statements:



  Have you any wool?

  No, I haven't any wool.

But not *Yes, I have any wool. "Some" is the usual replacement for

"any" in assertive contexts:

   Yes, I have some wool.



There's a lot more of this fascinating stuff in Quirk if anyone (note

"any" in a conditional too) cares to plow through it.



E.W.Gilman



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:16:39 -0600

From:  Katherine Catmull  kate[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]BGA.COM 

Subject: Re: "street arab"



On Thu, 18 Jan 1996, BARBARA HILL HUDSON wrote:



  In reference to the term "street arab":

 

  I know that in Baltimore, MD the men who sell produce and sometimes fish from

  horse drawn carriages were called street arabs (pronounced with a initial long

  a).





I recenty came across the term in Salman Rushdies's Midnight's Children,

so perhaps it's originally a British term.



Or perhaps I should just look it up.



Kate Catmull      kate[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]bga.com



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:42:38 -0800

From:  Allen Maberry  maberry[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]U.WASHINGTON.EDU 

Subject: Re: Fwd: Re(2): whoop



 

   TLC says:

  1. war /huwp/

  2. /huwp/ it up, tonight

  3. gave it a /huwp/ and a holler

  4. /hwuping/ cough (I had it too), which means my caretakers used /hw/,

  and I learned that pronunciation from her (mom) or them (family members

  who told me I had it at a young age)

 



I say them pretty much as TLC says except 4. /huwping/

Pacific Northwest



Allen

maberry[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]u.washington.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:47:56 -0330

From:  Trevor Porter  tporter[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CS.MUN.CA 

Subject: Re: carried my cousin to the store



The word 'carry' is often used this way in my native Newfoundland

dialect. It generally refers to someone who cannot transport themselves,

usually because they don't have a car or a license.



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:23:38 -0800

From:  SETH SKLAREY  crissiet[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IX.NETCOM.COM 

Subject: Re: whoop(s)



In the comic books Yosemite Sam used to say pshaw. To this day I don't know

how you're

supposed to pronounce it.



SETH SKLAREY

crissiet[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ix.netcom.com



 My own idiosyncratic spelling for your usage is 'whyw!' Just does it

 better for me, somehow, without a vowel in there.

 

 On Mon, 29 Jan 1996, Dale F.Coye wrote:

 

   This reminds me that I'm sure there is a word boundary out there for "whew!"

   (my usage) vs. "phew!" (never in a million years).

  

 

 



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:23:35 -0800

From:  SETH SKLAREY  crissiet[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IX.NETCOM.COM 

Subject: Re: expressions



I had a friend who used to say:



"I don't chew my cud twice." He was a city boy who had moved to rural south

Florida.



Seth Sklarey

crissiet[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ix.netcom.com



   "If ice freezes on high water, the water will come back and get it."

   

   "Go back and lick your calf over again."

  

  This reminds me of my grandmother-in-law who, after visiting my husband and

  me for the first time, said of me in a later discussion, that I'd "been

  around and wore shoes." This was said as a compliment and I defined it as

  referring to someone who had more experience or sophistication. I've never

  heard it before or since. Comments?

  

  Rima

 

 "Been around and wore shoes" reminds me of an expression I read about from

 alleged Arkansas dialect (re Bill Clinton): "He's been to Memphis."

 

 Miriam Meyers

 Metropolitan State University

 mmeyers[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]msus1.msus.edu

 

 



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:23:40 -0800

From:  SETH SKLAREY  crissiet[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IX.NETCOM.COM 

Subject: Re: carried my cousin to the store



 Doesn't the song say "carry me back to ole Virginny"?

            DMLance

 

Does anyone have the POGO rendition of the above?



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Date:  Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:33:39 -0500

From:  "Dale F.Coye"  CoyeCFAT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Re: pshaw



My Grandfather said it shaw and I see that W3 lists it the same way, but

notes it could be any number of other noises expressive of irritation,

displeasure, etc. An older form found in Shakespeare is spelled foh, or

faugh which some scholars tell us was meant to be sort of a pffff! expressing

disgust. Many readers give it a spelling pronunciation like foe or faw.



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End of ADS-L Digest - 30 Jan 1996 to 31 Jan 1996

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