Subject: ADS-L Digest - 31 Dec 1997 to 1 Jan 1998 There are 5 messages totalling 157 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Citation for 'internot' (re: Gareth's request) (2) 2. Superior anti-words of the year (2) 3. wig out ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 14:00:03 +0200 From: John Hopkins John.Hopkins[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CSC.FI Subject: Citation for 'internot' (re: Gareth's request) Dear All, A quick search of my hard drive produced (somewhat to my surprise) only one citation of 'internot' as I had quoted it to you (ref. Gareth's request for citations yesterday). This is the following: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Tue 16 Dec 97 12:15:20-PST From: Ken Laws LAWS[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ai.sri.com THE COMPUTISTS' COMMUNIQUE (Vol. 7, No. 85, December 16, 1997) ....Gartner Group estimates that 30% of all companies internationally have not yet begun to deal with Year 2000 issues. London IT psychologist David Lewis estimates that two in five business leaders are "Internots," still in denial. As an example of the problems that "Y2K stragglers" may face, Brian Wengenroth of Booz, Allen & Hamilton cites a large oil company which recently discovered that thousands of its refinery oil valve controllers will need new chips. However, new chips don't work on the old motherboards, and the new motherboards don't fit the old valves -- so the valves have to be replaced as well. [Bronwyn Fryer, 08Dec97. Paul Milne fedinfo[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]halifax.com , comp.software.year-2000, 11Dec97.] .... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- However, my hard drive would not have files from the print publications I had mentioned, only recent e-mailed newsletters such as the above (or other references from files in the websites I administer). I next did a quick Alta-Vista search on "internot" which produced 1285 references, of which I scanned the first 5-6 screens. Most of the references were to proper nouns (newsletter or organizational names) or to uses of the term other than those which either Gareth or I had suggested. This search also did not include any of the print publications I'd mentioned in my original note, but -- primitive search as it was -- does suggest that at least in this material the definition I'd put forward is not being used as a 'mainstream' use of 'internot'. Has anyone else run across usage of 'internot' in the sense I'd used it? Yours, JOHN ************************************************************************* John D. Hopkins Hopkins[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]csc.fi http://www.uta.fi/FAST/JH University of Tampere, Finland Phone +358-3-2156116, FAX +358-3-2157200 ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 08:29:56 -0500 From: Al Futrell al[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]LOUISVILLE.EDU Subject: Re: Citation for 'internot' (re: Gareth's request) On Thu, 1 Jan 1998, John Hopkins wrote: Dear All, A quick search of my hard drive produced (somewhat to my surprise) only one citation of 'internot' as I had quoted it to you (ref. Gareth's Is this a variant spelling of 'internaut'? Al Futrell -- al[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]louisville.edu -- http://www.louisville.edu/~awfutr01 Dept of Communication -- University of Louisville ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 16:19:28 EST From: AAllan AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM Subject: Superior anti-words of the year As we consider our own (morally neutral) vote on words of the year, here'= s the=0Achilly annual report from Lake Superior:=0A=0A Word police think = the linguistic value of `yadda, yadda, yadda' is zip, zero,=0Anada =0A Re= uters News Service =0A=0A SAULT STE. MARIE, Mich. -- The word police at L= ake Superior State University=0Anominated a New Year's list of slang word= s and cliches they want banned=0AWednesday, issuing a plea that speakers = avoid the annoying "yadda, yadda,=0Ayadda." =0AOther words and phrases fa= iling the school's standard for proper English usage=0Awere the abbreviat= ed greeting "whassup?" or the even shorter " 'sup?", the=0Aconfessional "= my bad" and the insulting "talk to the hand" (not to my face). =0A Since = 1976, the university's public relations staff has solicited nominations= =0Afor its New Year's list of cliches, slang words or redundancies that c= rop up=0Ain current usage and deserve banishment. =0A Instead of "whassup= ?" the school suggested people just try saying hello.=0A"It's pass=E9," s= aid nominator Greg Arceri of Northville, Mich., of the=0Agreeting. =0A Ma= ny found the oft-repeated phrase "my bad" to be an infantile alternative = to=0Aadmitting a mistake, and others opined that "yadda, yadda, yadda" wa= s merely=0Aan irritating substitute for "and so on." =0A The overused "Ge= neration X" came in for criticism -- possibly from those in=0Athe 20-some= thing age group -- for being a bland moniker deserving a=0Areplacement, a= lthough no suitable one was offered. =0A Some favored words and prefixes = used by the media were also excoriated. The=0Asuperlative "ever" as in "t= he best film adaptation of a John Grisham novel=0Aever!" was viewed as an= unneeded superlative that is redundant. =0A The prefix "re-" was so over= used that one contributor to the list suggested=0A"we should re-double ou= r efforts to re-think this issue" before reusing it. =0A In addition, the= school suggested that athletes who insist on giving "110=0Apercent" shou= ld be held to it, and anyone who announces plans to "take it to=0Athe nex= t level" ought to be held back. =0A The phrase "show me the money," popul= arized by the football player played by=0ACuba Gooding Jr. in the movie J= erry McGuire, was seen as funny once -- but no=0Amore. =0A And casino ope= rators ought to be instructed to quit calling their sport=0A"gaming" when= everyone knows it's a euphemism for gambling, gambling,=0Agambling. =0A = Yadda, yadda, yadda. =0A ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 19:56:32 EST From: Adamrdamaa Adamrdamaa[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM Subject: Re: wig out lance---I also heard it, "'wig out," this way in the 60s. Allan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 22:08:10 EST From: GarethB2 GarethB2[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM Subject: Re: Superior anti-words of the year Allan, Can you repost an ASCII version of this? Something got lost (or added) in the upload (smart quotes, etc.). Gareth -------------------------------------------------- Gareth Branwyn garethb2[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com, http://home.earthlink.net/~garethb2/ Contributing editor, Wired Co-author _Happy Mutant Handbook_ , _Internet Power Toolkit_ Author, _Jargon Watch: A Pocket Dictionary for the Jitterati_ ------------------------------ End of ADS-L Digest - 31 Dec 1997 to 1 Jan 1998 *********************************************** Subject: ADS-L Digest - 1 Jan 1998 to 2 Jan 1998 There are 16 messages totalling 598 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Citation for 'internot' (re: Gareth's request) (3) 2. Dilbert for WOTY? 3. ADS "Oscar" Awards; British actors in US 4. British actors in US (2) 5. pull a dilbert 6. Deletia (Was Re: Dilbert for WOTY?) (6) 7. Legible Superior anti-list 8. PODUNK ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 01:48:43 EST From: GarethB2 GarethB2[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM Subject: Re: Citation for 'internot' (re: Gareth's request) In a message dated 1/1/98 1:40:48 PM, al[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]LOUISVILLE.EDU wrote: A quick search of my hard drive produced (somewhat to my surprise) only one citation of 'internot' as I had quoted it to you (ref. Gareth's Is this a variant spelling of 'internaut'? I don't think so. I've heard the term Internaut used simply as a substitue for netsurfer, netizen, cybernaut, i.e. a dedicated Net user. [Internaut, cybernaut, and netizen are all in the Microsoft Computer Dictionary, 3rd Edition, BTW.] -------------------------------------------------- Gareth Branwyn garethb2[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com, http://home.earthlink.net/~garethb2/ Contributing editor, Wired Co-author _Happy Mutant Handbook_ , _Internet Power Toolkit_ Author, _Jargon Watch: A Pocket Dictionary for the Jitterati_ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 01:56:01 EST From: GarethB2 GarethB2[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM Subject: Re: Dilbert for WOTY? In a message dated 12/31/97 11:57:13 PM, Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM wrote: I've been going through "Among the New Words" and past WOTYs, and I could have missed it, but "Dilbert" isn't there. So, for Word-of-the-Year, I'd like to nominate my close friend-- [deletia] I think this is an excellent suggestion. I've gotten numerous Dilbert-related submissions to my Jargon Watch column. In the Jargon Watch book, I have: Dilberted To be exploited, oppressed, or screwed over by one's boss. Dervied from Dilbert, the geek-in-hell comic strip character. The corresponding adjective is "Dilbertesque." Also submitted (but not published): Dilbertland or Dilbert Zone A company or organziation that has a reputation for being excessively (or obsessively) bureaucratic. [This was submitted by Jef Raskin, one of the creators of the Macintosh]. I've seen a number of other permutations (such as "pulling a Dilbert). -------------------------------------------------- Gareth Branwyn garethb2[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com, http://home.earthlink.net/~garethb2/ Contributing editor, Wired Co-author _Happy Mutant Handbook_ , _Internet Power Toolkit_ Author, _Jargon Watch: A Pocket Dictionary for the Jitterati_ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 02:11:47 EST From: GarethB2 GarethB2[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM Subject: Re: Citation for 'internot' (re: Gareth's request) In a message dated 1/1/98 12:00:42 PM, John.Hopkins[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CSC.FI wrote: Dear All, A quick search of my hard drive produced (somewhat to my surprise) only one citation of 'internot' as I had quoted it to you (ref. Gareth's request for citations yesterday). This is the following: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Tue 16 Dec 97 12:15:20-PST From: Ken Laws LAWS[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ai.sri.com THE COMPUTISTS' COMMUNIQUE (Vol. 7, No. 85, December 16, 1997) .....Gartner Group estimates that 30% of all companies internationally have not yet begun to deal with Year 2000 issues. London IT psychologist David Lewis estimates that two in five business leaders are "Internots," still in denial. As an example of the problems that "Y2K stragglers" may face, Brian Wengenroth of Booz, Allen & Hamilton cites a large oil company which recently discovered that thousands of its refinery oil valve controllers will need new chips. However, new chips don't work on the old motherboards, and the new motherboards don't fit the old valves -- so the valves have to be replaced as well. [Bronwyn Fryer, 08Dec97. Paul Milne fedinfo[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]halifax.com , comp.software.year-2000, 11Dec97.] .... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [deletia] Searching my archives, I found the following, sent to me by Kevin Kelly of Wired in July '97 (from a piece on businesstech.com): "INTERNOTS IN EUROPE Recent studies of executives in Europe show a resistance to the Internet and the World Wide Web that shows no signs of abating. Many of those in leadership positions in European companies do not see any advantages to using the net and the web to further business operations and processes. These findings reinforce the notion that Europe is far behind the United States in net and web usage. In the U.S., business is the largest growth area for the net. In one survey, six out of ten European managers said "they had no links into cyberspace and no intention of ever getting on the Internet." So this is a usage similar to John's citation above. -------------------------------------------------- Gareth Branwyn garethb2[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com, http://home.earthlink.net/~garethb2/ Contributing editor, Wired Co-author _Happy Mutant Handbook_ , _Internet Power Toolkit_ Author, _Jargon Watch: A Pocket Dictionary for the Jitterati_ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 02:53:56 EST From: Bapopik Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM Subject: ADS "Oscar" Awards; British actors in US ADS "OSCAR" AWARDS The article that Allan just posted made the Channel 11 News at 10 tonight. Our Word-of-the-Year award should be no less popular. We should have more awards! I suggest Aw'scuz (Oscars), which we can announce in March. It would include Best Film (Miss Daisy, I'm drivin' you to de sto'), Best Actor (Are you talkin' to me?), Best Actress (the Meryl Streep award), Best Supporting Actor, Best Supporting Actress (or, Female Actor), but also Worst Film, Worst Actor, Worst Actress, Worst Supporting Actor, and Worst Supporting Actress. ISN'T THERE DIALECT IN FILM?? WHY DO WE COMPLETELY IGNORE IT?? The NAACP and Latino organizations have such awards--why not us? And of course, if we had an online magazine, people could make suggestions and vote... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------- BRITISH ACTORS IN U. S. This interesting article (which would, along with "AMISTAD anachronisms," the above "Oscars," and even Gareth's column, all be in the online magazine that we don't have) was originally in the New York Times. I found it in the Toronto Globe and Mail, 30 December 1997, pg. C2: British actors cross the linguistic divide By Michael McGough New York Times Service (over photo of Leslie Howard and Vivien Leigh) TALKING THE TALK/ More and more Britons are learning American accents to take on roles in Hollywood. What is perplexing about this traffic in verbal versatility is that it is largely in one direction. (below photo) It's more difficult for a British actor to do a convincing American accent than vice versa because of differences in the muscular action that produces sounds. Britons who have succeeded include Leslie Howard (above), shown with Vivien Leigh in _Gone With the Wind_, David Suchet (below right), who plays a New Yorkerin the film _Sunday_, and Peter Sellers (below left), shown in _Dr. Strangelove_. (...) American actors bridle at one popular explanation: that British actors are simply better trained than Americans. A less offensive variation on that thesis is that in Britain, a country in which dialect connotes not only region but also social class, actors had better be able to adjust their accents endlessly. The most satisfactory explanation for the accent gap, though, seems to lie less in linguistics than in economics. "Follow the money," that watchword of Watergate reporting, explains the influx of British actors into American roles. Tim Monich, one of the dialect coaches who help actors master the Queen's English (an ADS online magazine would interview this guy--ed.), states this thesis succinctly: "There is much more incentive for English actors, Australian actors, Canadian actors, Irish actors to have a career in Hollywood and to increase their casting, of course, to do American roles." (...) Thus an American accent can be an asset even when an audience is not going to be primarily American. As a teen-ager, the British actor Simon Fenton crossed the ocean to play a United States Navy brat in _Matinee_, the acclaimed 1993 comic film set in Key West, Fla., during the Cuban missile crisis. That performance led to a tryout for a role in _Chris Cross_, a Canadian television series that was distributed in both Britain and the United States. The linguistic trade deficit between British and American actors may be aggravated by a professional decision by American actors not to attempt foreign accents. Monich said directors and studio heads are leery of having Hollywood stars speak in a foreign accent, because this would dilute their bankable images. Opportunity, talent and training being equal, is it easier linguistically for a British actor to play an American than vice versa? There is a remarkable lack of unanimity on this question. And, indeed, several expert insist that the American-to-British manoeuvre should actually be the easier one. "For an American to do a standard British accent, it's a matter of dropping sounds," (stage director Richard) Seyd said. "For an English actor to do an American accent, it's a matter of adding sounds, and it makes the accent more self-conscious when you add a sound, and more difficult when you add a sound, than when you're leaving sounds out." Fenton agrees that doing an American accent involves adding sounds to what he sees as the "neutral" British accent. But, unlike Seyd, he sees the British-to-American transformation as the easier one. "I think it's easier to add than to take away," Fenton said. But David Alan Stern, a dialect coach and the author of a series of manuals and audiotapes called _Acting with an Accent_ (IS THIS GUY A MEMBER OF THE AMERICAN DIALECT SOCIETY? Gotta ram these points home--ed.), said Fenton's explanation would be "exactly the same perspective that an American actor would feel" if called upon to do a British accent. Stern said it is more difficult for a British actor to do a convincing American accent than vice versa, not because of the addition or subtraction of sounds but because of differences in the muscular action that produces sounds. Standard British speech, he added, focuses its tone and resonance in the front part of the mouth, whereas American speech centres (American speech centres?-ed.) most of its muscle work in the middle part of the tongue. It is easier, Stern said, for Americans to learn to use the front-face muscles that produce a British resonance than for British speakers to make the muscles lazy to seem American. Is Stern's explanation the last word on the linguistic side of the accent gap? No such luck. Suchet, who has been an acting teacher as well as an actor, agrees with Stern that British English is more muscular, but he draws an opposite conclusion. "In order to speak American, the first thing you have to do is not move your mouth very much," he said. "Now, that's an easier thing to do than to say to someone, 'Move your mouth more.'" Any opinions? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 09:06:19 -0500 From: Orin Hargraves OKH[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]COMPUSERVE.COM Subject: British actors in US I would subscribe to the unpopular (in some quarters) opinion that Britis= h actors are of necessity simply trained better to imitate any number of accents than Americans are, and so generally succeed at American accents better than American actors do at British ones. A sidelight: in the current film "The Sweet Hereafter", Iain Holme flawlessly portrays a North American (is he American or Canadian? it's never clear) ambulance chaser and comes across convincingly in mannerisms= and accent, but slips up in a single line of dialog: he says *five MILES away*, with stress on the word *miles*, which is the British way, whereas= we would say *five miles AWAY*. Did his accent coach nod off? (Or do Canadians in fact say *five MILES away*)? Orin Hargraves OKH[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]compuserve.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 11:46:52 -0500 From: Barnhart barnhart[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HIGHLANDS.COM Subject: pull a dilbert Sorry to have misinformed you that pull a dilbert was a legitimate find. It is not, at least not in my records. Regards, David Barnhart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 12:35:27 -0500 From: Gregory {Greg} Downing downingg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IS2.NYU.EDU Subject: Deletia (Was Re: Dilbert for WOTY?) At 01:56 AM 1/2/98 EST, you (GarethB2 GarethB2[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM ) wrote: [deletia] Is this a latinism indicating that there was "deleted wording" here? How is it formed, I mean morphologically? (Not being sarcastic here, just honestly curious.) I know the philological/editorial term "delenda" (things to be deleted; cf. memoranda "things to be remembered"), but not "deletia." Greg Downing/NYU, at greg.downing[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nyu.edu or downingg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]is2.nyu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 12:41:16 -0500 From: Gregory {Greg} Downing downingg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IS2.NYU.EDU Subject: Re: Citation for 'internot' (re: Gareth's request) At 02:11 AM 1/2/98 EST, you wrote: "INTERNOTS IN EUROPE Recent studies of executives in Europe show a resistance to the Internet and the World Wide Web that shows no signs of abating.... Postfixed "not" is maybe based in part on the early-90's fad-formula or catch-phrase of the form "[assertion] -- NOT!" I.e., someone who sails the internet is an internaut, someone who refuses to do so is an "inter -- NOT" or "internot." ???? Greg Downing/NYU, at greg.downing[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nyu.edu or downingg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]is2.nyu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 10:05:25 -0800 From: "A. Maberry" maberry[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]U.WASHINGTON.EDU Subject: Re: Deletia (Was Re: Dilbert for WOTY?) i wondered about "deletia" myself, especially about the presence of the "i". i would have expected "deleta" = "things deleted" neuter plural participle of "deleo" or "delita" the perf. part. = "things having been deleted" . Allen maberry[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]u.washington.edu On Fri, 2 Jan 1998, Gregory {Greg} Downing wrote: At 01:56 AM 1/2/98 EST, you (GarethB2 GarethB2[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM ) wrote: [deletia] Is this a latinism indicating that there was "deleted wording" here? How is it formed, I mean morphologically? (Not being sarcastic here, just honestly curious.) I know the philological/editorial term "delenda" (things to be deleted; cf. memoranda "things to be remembered"), but not "deletia." Greg Downing/NYU, at greg.downing[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nyu.edu or downingg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]is2.nyu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 13:18:01 -0500 From: Gregory {Greg} Downing downingg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IS2.NYU.EDU Subject: Re: Deletia (Was Re: Dilbert for WOTY?) At 10:05 AM 1/2/98 -0800, you wrote: i wondered about "deletia" myself, especially about the presence of the "i". i would have expected "deleta" = "things deleted" neuter plural participle of "deleo" or "delita" the perf. part. = "things having been deleted" . Allen maberry[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]u.washington.edu I figure it's maybe humorous, pendatry-joshing, deliberately fractured Latin. Others have written me offlist in the last little bit to say they themselves have seen deletia, and used it. Maybe it's a what one would prescriptivistically term a deleterious (delet-hilarious?) usage.... Delenda is an old-fashioned editorial term (cp. the better known "addenda"). Greg Downing/NYU, at greg.downing[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nyu.edu or downingg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]is2.nyu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 13:56:56 EST From: AAllan AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM Subject: Legible Superior anti-list Sorry for the clutter in the previous posting of this story! I'll try again: ----------- Word police think the linguistic value of 'yadda, yadda, yadda' is zip, zero, nada Reuters News Service SAULT STE. MARIE, Mich. -- The word police at Lake Superior State University nominated a New Year's list of slang words and cliches they want banned Wednesday, issuing a plea that speakers avoid the annoying "yadda, yadda, yadda." Other words and phrases failing the school's standard for proper English usage were the abbreviated greeting "whassup?" or the even shorter " 'sup?", the confessional "my bad" and the insulting "talk to the hand" (not to my face). Since 1976, the university's public relations staff has solicited nominations for its New Year's list of cliches, slang words or redundancies that crop up in current usage and deserve banishment. Instead of "whassup?" the school suggested people just try saying hello. "It's passe," said nominator Greg Arceri of Northville, Mich., of the greeting. Many found the oft-repeated phrase "my bad" to be an infantile alternative to admitting a mistake, and others opined that "yadda, yadda, yadda" was merely an irritating substitute for "and so on." The overused "Generation X" came in for criticism -- possibly from those in the 20-something age group -- for being a bland moniker deserving a replacement, although no suitable one was offered. Some favored words and prefixes used by the media were also excoriated. The superlative "ever" as in "the best film adaptation of a John Grisham novel ever!" was viewed as an unneeded superlative that is redundant. The prefix "re-" was so overused that one contributor to the list suggested "we should re-double our efforts to re-think this issue" before reusing it. In addition, the school suggested that athletes who insist on giving "110 percent" should be held to it, and anyone who announces plans to "take it to the next level" ought to be held back. The phrase "show me the money," popularized by the football player played by Cuba Gooding Jr. in the movie Jerry McGuire, was seen as funny once -- but no more. And casino operators ought to be instructed to quit calling their sport "gaming" when everyone knows it's a euphemism for gambling, gambling, gambling. Yadda, yadda, yadda. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 15:16:12 -0500 From: "Frank R. Abate" abatef[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]COMPUSERVE.COM Subject: PODUNK Let me weigh in with some evidence on Podunk: The Index volume to the Omni Gazetteer lists placenames with Podunk in 7 states: CT, MA, ME, MI, NY, UT, VT. There are populated places or "locales" (such are often neighborhood name= s) in CT, MA, MI, NY, VT. MA has a P Cemetery and a P Pond. In CT, aside from a P River, there is a P Pond, and I have first-hand knowledge of a residential part of a shoreline town, Guilford (S of Hartford about 35 miles), which uses this name. There is a P Road in Guilford. A look in one of the "national yellow pages" CD-ROMs may well reveal more= , though the pejorative use of the name now probably limits its use. George Stewart's "Names on the Land", p. 338, says: "In 1846 a series of humorous magazine articles used the title _Letters from Podunk,_ and the name became established as the joking equivalent of an insignificant, backward village. In time it sprouted a variant, Squeedunk." Frank Abate ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 15:19:14 EST From: GarethB2 GarethB2[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM Subject: Re: Deletia (Was Re: Dilbert for WOTY?) In a message dated 1/2/98 5:37:08 PM, downingg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IS2.NYU.EDU wrote: Is this a latinism indicating that there was "deleted wording" here? How is it formed, I mean morphologically? (Not being sarcastic here, just honestly curious.) I know the philological/editorial term "delenda" (things to be deleted; cf. memoranda "things to be remembered"), but not "deletia." I have no idea about the etymology of "deletia." It's an old Usenet convention. It's not in the New Hacker's Dictionary, but it is in the MS Computer Dictionary (3rd Edition): deletia n. Omitted material. The term is used in responses to Usenet or mailing list messages to indicate that some unnecessary material has been excluded from the incorporated message being answered. I wonder if it's not a blending of delete+minutia, but that would just be a wild guess. Also, given the hacker propensity for humorous "pendatry-joshing" coinages, it very well could be "deliberately fractured Latin." I'll ask around. -------------------------------------------------- Gareth Branwyn garethb2[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com, http://home.earthlink.net/~garethb2/ Contributing editor, Wired Co-author _Happy Mutant Handbook_ , _Internet Power Toolkit_ Author, _Jargon Watch: A Pocket Dictionary for the Jitterati_ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 15:15:57 -0500 From: Larry Horn laurence.horn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALE.EDU Subject: Re: Deletia (Was Re: Dilbert for WOTY?) At 10:05 AM 1/2/98 -0800, you wrote: i wondered about "deletia" myself, especially about the presence of the "i". i would have expected "deleta" = "things deleted" neuter plural participle of "deleo" or "delita" the perf. part. = "things having been deleted" . Allen maberry[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]u.washington.edu I figure it's maybe humorous, pendatry-joshing, deliberately fractured Latin. Others have written me offlist in the last little bit to say they themselves have seen deletia, and used it. Maybe it's a what one would prescriptivistically term a deleterious (delet-hilarious?) usage.... Delenda is an old-fashioned editorial term (cp. the better known "addenda"). Greg Downing/NYU, at greg.downing[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nyu.edu or downingg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]is2.nyu.edu "Delenda" has an even richer history. If I'm not mistaken, it was Cato (the younger or older; can't quite recall that part) who used to end every speech in the Roman senate with the warning "Carthago delenda est", and of course he eventually got his wish when Carthage was unrecoverably deleted. And yes, one WOULD expect "deleta", as in "excreta" (I may have also heard "secreta"), but for some reason it's "deletia" we get. --Larry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 14:48:02 -0600 From: Greg Pulliam gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CHARLIE.CNS.IIT.EDU Subject: Re: British actors in US As someone who's done some of this sort of thing--"accents/dialects"--on-air in radio and on television, I must say that the descriptions of both British and American English as "adding" or "dropping" sounds, or being more or less "muscular," seem to be based on native-speaker assumptions, not on observable, categorical phenomena. When I imitated the RP-dialect of the royal family on "morning-zoo" radio, was I dropping my r's (and by one acccount therefore doing something easy) or was I fronting (and therefore adding a feature)? These kinds of descriptions seem to me to be "coaching" strategies--things coaches tell players/actors to convince them that something is doable. Nothing in the American/Australian/English/Scottish/Irish/Welsh/etc. accents/dialects make any one of them easier or harder. "Doing" an accent/dialect well would seem to me to be a function of similarity between native and target accents/dialects as well as the individual's ear for such things, AND economics. I will have to second Popik's point about Hollywood's call for American accents/dialects--to me, this is (forgive me) paramount. As they say at Lake Superior, "Show me the money!" Greg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 18:09:52 -0500 From: Gregory {Greg} Downing downingg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IS2.NYU.EDU Subject: Re: Deletia (Was Re: Dilbert for WOTY?) At 03:15 PM 1/2/98 -0500, you (Larry Horn laurence.horn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALE.EDU ) wrote: And yes, one WOULD expect "deleta", as in "excreta" (I may have also heard "secreta"), but for some reason it's "deletia" we get. Hey, if we had to use, in English, only Latin- and Greek-based words that were morphologically well formed according to those two langs' "classical" grammars, we'd have to dump everything from "megaton" (megalo- is the combining form) to maybe about a quarter of the Latin-Greek macaronic combos that populate the pages of a contemporary medical dictionary! (He said, not meaning in any way to start up the traditional descriptivist/prescriptivist mud-wrestle and gotcha-contest.) Greg Downing/NYU, at greg.downing[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nyu.edu or downingg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]is2.nyu.edu ------------------------------ End of ADS-L Digest - 1 Jan 1998 to 2 Jan 1998 ********************************************** Subject: ADS-L Digest - 2 Jan 1998 to 3 Jan 1998 There are 2 messages totalling 45 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Podunk 2. Un-subscribe ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 00:09:59 -0500 From: ALICE FABER faber[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HASKINS.YALE.EDU Subject: Re: Podunk In response to Frank Abate's posting of evidence regarding Podunk-qua-place name: | | Let me weigh in with some evidence on Podunk: | | The Index volume to the Omni Gazetteer lists placenames with Podunk in 7 | states: CT, MA, ME, MI, NY, UT, VT. | | There are populated places or "locales" (such are often neighborhood name= | s) | in CT, MA, MI, NY, VT. MA has a P Cemetery and a P Pond. | | In CT, aside from a P River, there is a P Pond, and I have first-hand | knowledge of a residential part of a shoreline town, Guilford (S of | Hartford about 35 miles), which uses this name. There is a P Road in | Guilford. Could you give an indication of where in Guilford? My Champion map of New Haven County (c. 10 years old) doesn't list Podunk Road (or any other name containing Podunk) in its index, which does list some *very* minimal looking roads in Guilford. Alice Faber ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 11:10:58 PST From: melissa smith mel_6968[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HOTMAIL.COM Subject: Un-subscribe I wish to un-subscribe Melissa S. Smith mssmit01[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]morehead-st.edu ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of ADS-L Digest - 2 Jan 1998 to 3 Jan 1998 ********************************************** Subject: ADS-L Digest - 3 Jan 1998 to 4 Jan 1998 There are 6 messages totalling 457 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. 1997 Notable Phrase; Hockey Talk; Furniture Lingo; Net Time 2. Un-subscribe 3. Podunk 4. Sundae; Sundowners; Median; Under the Influence; Two Cents; et al. 5. throwed rolls (2) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 04:24:22 EST From: Bapopik Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM Subject: 1997 Notable Phrase; Hockey Talk; Furniture Lingo; Net Time 1997 NOTABLE PHRASE We collect "new" words, but not "notable" ones. Grammar errors and the like can be included in the latter. This notable phrase of 1997 was in the Toronto Globe and Mail, 30 December 1997, William Houston's 1997 World of Sports, pg. S2, col. 5: Pittsburgh Pirate pitching coach Pete Vuckovich, after being ejected from a game for arguing with an umpire: "I was a victim of circumcision." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------- HOCKEY TALK In the same article, column 4, is clicheed hockey talk: Readers in 1997 continued to complain about hockey cliches: Gary Breen of Ottawa wrote, "Every morning, various sports announcers inform us that a particular game ended in a tie 'after overtime' (or some variation). As far as I know, it is not possible for a game to end in a tie without an overtime period having been played. By leaving out the word 'overtime,' additional time will be available to sportscasters to describe the latest Leaf loss." Ralph Eastman of Vancouver contributed a couple of comments on usage: "Whenever an athlete makes a key play in a tight situtation, the announcer will invariably note, 'he had the presence of mind' to do whatever. With the possible exception of boxers, it's a safe bet most athletes have the presence of mind. Why not say wits, alertness or composure? In football, we're often told that a player who was injured, but managed to leave the field without help, walked off 'under his own power.' How about 'unassisted' or 'on his own?'" Peter Lloyd of Ottawa wrote, "There's the all-pervasive redundancy 'off of'--as in 'he was knocked off of the puck' or 'the puck deflected in off of his skate.' Here in Ottawa, we are being treated not only to the improving and entertaining Senators, but also a new twist on icing the puck. No longer does a player go back to touch the puck and cause an icing call. On Senator broadcasts, the player 'touches up' the puck." Keith Morrison of Vancouver (not the journalist) listed hockey play-by- play phrases that irritate him: "The teams are at full and even strength." If both teams are at full strength, they must be even. "The puck is in back of the net." Why not simply, "behind the net"? "Smith wristed the shot." A wimpy expression. Danny Gallivan said it better--a player "snapped" a shot or "fired" it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------- FURNITURE LINGO This is from the Toronto Globe and Mail, 30 December 1997 (it was a good day, and the hotel gave 'em out for free), pg. B10, col. 5: Furniture lingo The latest suggestions for new business terminology come from _Haworth Inc._, a Holland, Mich.-based office furniture manufacturer: .Chunking: Those tilting stacks of paper aren't a mess, they're proof of chunking or "consolidating related subject matter into fewer, but larger, overarching groups of information." .Visual noise: Objects and materials in the work space that distract from rather than support current and important mental tasks. Churning helps reduce visual noise. .Churning: The cyclical activity of purging, absorbing, creating and relocating artifacts such as folders, reports and notes to ensure that what's on top and visible is the current and most important task. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------- NET TIME This is from the Village Voice, 6 January 1998, Machine Age by Austin Bunn, pg. 29, col. 1: Year of Living Digitally Amid the year's avalanche of freshly minted jargon--"blamestorming," "crapplet," and "backhoeing the server farm" (translation, anyone?)--1997's best invention was as much a new philosophy as a neologism: "Net time." In an industry based on change, accelerated "Net time" falls loosely in between dog years and flat-out instantaneous evolution. It gets at the fact that people still working on the Web after three years feel like they have endured a lifetime of hype, spin and "turnkey" "solutions." No surprise for the year that shipped Moore's Law (which posits that processor speed doubles every 18 months) to the recycling bin. Patience and perspective have become the online industry's scarcest resources. But lest the hyperactivity of "Net time" erase history itself, we're due to stop the clock and immortalize the most telling developments, if not always progress, of the past 12 months in a yearbook of human traffic in the Alley... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:01:58 -0300 From: Homero Chami Homero[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SOFTHOME.NET Subject: Re: Un-subscribe I wish to un-subscribe bnt[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]overnet.com.ar ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 08:59:24 -0500 From: Laurence Horn laurence.horn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALE.EDU Subject: Re: Podunk This is to confirm the assertion in the initial post: In response to Frank Abate's posting of evidence regarding Podunk-qua-place name: | | Let me weigh in with some evidence on Podunk: |... | In CT, aside from a P River, there is a P Pond, and I have first-hand | knowledge of a residential part of a shoreline town, Guilford (S of | Hartford about 35 miles), which uses this name. There is a P Road in | Guilford. Could you give an indication of where in Guilford? My Champion map of New Haven County (c. 10 years old) doesn't list Podunk Road (or any other name containing Podunk) in its index, which does list some *very* minimal looking roads in Guilford. Alice Faber MY map (New Haven Citimap available from the AAA) has Podunk Road traveling north-south (and vice versa) in the eastern reaches of Guilford, extending for c. 2 1/2 miles just this side of Madison (into which it wanders at its far northern point). It doesn't make it as far south as I-95 or as far north as Route 80, but that's the area. I take the nonce spelling as "Poduck" to be a scribal error on the part of the mapmaker. --Larry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 18:20:49 EST From: Bapopik Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM Subject: Sundae; Sundowners; Median; Under the Influence; Two Cents; et al. SUNDAE I visited Asbury Park, New Jersey to settle this "sundae" thing once and for all. While in nearby Long Branch, I had spotted a 1903 advertisement for "DAY'S ICE CREAM GARDEN/ The Most Popular Resort for Ladies and Gentlemen on the Atlantic Coast/ 219 Asbury Avenue/ Next to Ocean Hotel." A 1900-01 BOYD'S DIRECTORY OF MONMOUTH COUNTY shows W. F. Day & Brothers (Wilbur F., Pennington M. and Waters B.), ice cream and caterers, 219 Asbury Avenue, Asbury Park and 48 Pitman Avenue, Ocean Grove. Day's would also expand to Newark and Morristown. I checked 1899-1904 for advertisements for "sundaes" at Day's. (It would be kind of a pun--sundae at Day's--you see.) Perhaps "sundae" originated in Wisconsin or Ithaca, New York--I just wanted an early article and/or advertisement related to Day's Ice Cream Garden. Through 1904, there were many, many ads for Day's, but no ad mentioned "sundae." Oh well. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------- SUNDOWNERS From Sundae to Sundowner (now historical). This phrase is in the DA from 1904 for this use. This is from the Asbury Park Daily Press, 13 January 1900, pg. 2, col. 3: QUEER LOT OF MEN. To Be Found in No Other American City But Washington. Those Familiar with Their Ways Call Them "Sundowners"--They Are Victims of Cowardice and Self-Indulgence. This is the story of "The Sundowner;" and it has never before been told. Probably no other city in the world--certainly no other city in this country--has such a goodly number of these people as can be found in our national capital. Scholars tell us that all discussion should be preceded by definition; and that many great debates have been caused by lack of understanding of terms on the part of those in dispute. Therefore, the learned men tell us, every term should be properly defined by a public speaker or writer, in order that the listener or reader may the better apprehend what is intended to be conveyed. Well, "a Sundowner" is a man who practices a profession in this city after the working hours of the day have passed away, and when men in the learned professions have laid aside their books, their papers, their clients and patients, and dismissed them from their minds. "A Sundowner goes to work when other men have ceased their daily labors and endeavors. "A Sundowner" is liable to work long after sundown; probably until midnight, or even later. It is because he practices his profession after sundown that he is called a Sundowner. These people work all day; that is, from nine o'clock in the morning until four o'clock in the afternoon. (...) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------- MEDIAN I had thought "median" was an ancient term, but it was popularized with the 1900 census. OED has the March 1900 _Boston Transcript_ citation, but doesn't give the date, nor page number. This is from the Asbury Park Daily Press, 15 March 1900, pg. 5, col. 4: "MEDIAN" IN THE CENSUS. New Word Coined to Supplant Average and Center. A new word seems destined to come into use with the census of 1900 and the discussions that will follow the interpretation of its results, says a Washington correspondent of the Boston Transcript. The word is "median." It ought to displace average and center for the greater number of ordinary consus uses, since the notion of "average" which most people have is really expressed by "median," while "average" means quite another thing. There is room in our terminology for both terms, just as we distinguish between plurality and majority to good advantage in discussing election returns. The average age of the population of the United States, for example, is 25 years; the median age is 21 years. The latter means the point at which there are as many people above as below. (...) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------- UNDER THE INFLUENCE The OED has an 1879 citation from Mark Twain; an 1866 citation is in parenthesis. The Asbury Park Journal, 20 January 1877, pg. 2, col. 2, has a story titled: A Monkey "Under the Influence." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------- TWO CENTS The DA has a few items for "two cents." I'll put my two cents in with the Asbury Park Daily Press, 12 February 1900, pg. 4, col. 4: TAYLOR A MARKED MAN. So a Reporter Hears in Frankfort, Ky. "LIFE NOT WORTH TWO CENTS." (...) _Life Not Worth Two Cents._ Another lawyer said: "My personal opinion is that his life is not worth 2 cents. (...)" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------- MAIN CHEESE RHHDAS has 1902-1903 George Ade for "main (or head) cheese." This is from the Asbury Park Daily Press, 11 November 1899, "Billy's Opinion of the Drama" by John Hazelden (who wrote various slang items using Billy), pg. 3, col. 3: The fellow that she wuz stuck on was the main cheese of the play. He was "it"--the real hero. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------- HOT DOG In the same article, the Asbury Park Daily Press, 11 November 1899, pg. 3, col. 3: I like that kind of a show better than one of these society plays where a bunch o' swell geezers in dress suits come in an' put on a lot o' hot dog an' don't do nothin' but talk. About a week earlier, the Asbury Park Daily Press, 3 November 1899, pg. 3, col. 1, there is a drawing of a swell. The caption is "HOT GARMENTS." About a week later, the Asbury Park Daily Press, 17 November 1899, pg. 3, col 2: Whenever he thinks the's just as good as these mugs that wear high collars an' put on dog all he wants to do is to go up an' call on 'em some evening an' see how quick they'll rush him into the parlor an' take his hat--not. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------- FRANKFURTER From the Asbury Park Daily Press, 24 August 1899, pg. 3, col. 3: The Streets of New York It was lunchtime and the "frankfurter and roll" men of Frankfort street were doing their best to appease the appetites of the 200 or 300 newsboys who throng Park row. (...)--New York Commercial Advertiser. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------- THE REAL DOUGHNUT In the same "Billy" article, the Asbury Park Daily Press, 11 November 1899, pg. 3, cols. 3-4: But they never fazed him. I think he must 'a' wore steel undercloze. But he evened up in the end, all right, all right. He got the girl an' the coin an' was set free with a nice clean shave an a button-hole banquet. He wuz the real doughnut, and no mistake. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------- SHAKE DOWN O. K., the DA has June 1899. This "shake down" is also from the Asbury Park Daily Press, 3 November 1899, pg. 3, col. 2: I used to see him once in awhile, an' I knew they had him clean to the bad, an' so I wuzn't surprized when he tried to shake me down. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------- OREOS The headline (a score of a football game) in the Asbury Park Daily Press, 13 November 1899, pg. 1, col. 3 reads: OREOS 6, LONG BRANCH 0. A FIERCE CONTEST ON THE HOLLYWOOD GROUNDS. The Oreos were tough cookies, no doubt. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------- ALL-AMERICA College football is over. I have yet to trace the origin of All- America(n)--maybe I'll visit the Football Hall of Fame in Canton, Ohio one of these days. Spalding football guides began in 1903, but collegiate football guides began in 1883. The All America teams probably started in the 1890s. This is from the Asbury Park Daily Press, Gossip of the Gridiron by E. G. Westlake, 24 November 1899, pg. 3, col 5: Who shall say that in the state of Wisconsin, where the loyalty of the people for the 'varsity at Madison is almost as great as that of Gen. Lawton to "Old Glory," Rodgers would not have been placed on everybody's "All- America" eleven? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------- LITTLE WHIMPY Not to be left off from the study of "wimp" is this item from the St. Nicholas magazine, copied in the Asbury Park Journal, 10 February 1877, pg. 2, col. 5: LITTLE WHIMPY. Whimpy, little Whimpy, Cried so much one day, His grandma couldn't stand it, And his mother ran away; His sister climbed the hay-mow, His father went to town, And cook flew to the neighbor's In her shabby kitchen gown. Whimpy, little Whimpy, Stood out in the sun, And cried until the chickens And the ducks began to run; Old Towser in his kennel Growled in an angry tone, Then burst his chain, and Whimpy Was left there all alone. Whimpy, little Whimpy, Cried, and cried, and cried, Soon the sunlight vanished, Flowers began to hide; Birdies stopped their singing, Frogs began to croak, Darkness came, and Whimpy Found crying was no joke. Whimpy, little Whimpy, Never'll forget the day When grandma couldn't stand it, And his mother ran away. He was waiting by the window When they all came home to tea, And a gladder boy than Whimpy, You never need hope to see. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:08:25 EST From: simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU Subject: throwed rolls As we drove east on Interstate 10, from Mississippi toward Pensacola FL, we saw several billboards touting the "throwed rolls" at a restaurant. Is anyone here familiar with "throwed rolls"? thanks, beth simon assistant professor, linguistics and english department of english and linguistics indiana university purdue university fort wayne, in 46805 219 481 6772 simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cvax.ipfw.indiana.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:46:07 -0500 From: Gregory {Greg} Downing downingg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IS2.NYU.EDU Subject: Re: throwed rolls At 07:08 PM 1/4/98 EST, you wrote: As we drove east on Interstate 10, from Mississippi toward Pensacola FL, we saw several billboards touting the "throwed rolls" at a restaurant. Is anyone here familiar with "throwed rolls"? thanks, beth simon assistant professor, linguistics and english department of english and linguistics indiana university purdue university Can't say as I have, but from the sound of it they may possibly (???) be a relative of "beaten biscuits," which are so called because they are made without yeast: just flour, salt, sugar, and lard (with some variations). BB's are instead lightened by beating the dough with a mallet or hammer for as long as 20-30 minutes. "Beaten biscuits" is a midlands/southern term, and for some reason is especially associated with Maryland; sometimes they are called "Maryland beaten biscuits." People in Maryland think of them as a typically regional food from the "olden days." DARE has a distribution-map for "beaten biscuits." On I-10 by the way: I'm told it is thought by some to be the closest "Interstate" equivalent to the old cross-the-USA Route 66. I-10 runs from Jacksonville to LA, I think. So I'd imagine one sees plenty from I-10. Of course there's also 40 that runs from NC to CA, 80 that runs from NY to SF, 90 that runs from MA to WA, etc. But 10 is the southernmost cross-country route. Greg Downing/NYU, at greg.downing[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nyu.edu or downingg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]is2.nyu.edu ------------------------------ End of ADS-L Digest - 3 Jan 1998 to 4 Jan 1998 ********************************************** Subject: ADS-L Digest - 4 Jan 1998 to 5 Jan 1998 There are 18 messages totalling 552 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. throwed rolls (5) 2. All-America teams (4) 3. British actors in US 4. RE throwed rolls 5. FINDMAIL is archiving mailing lists without permission 6. No subject given 7. All-America teams now "I vas dere, Charley" (2) 8. "Mudville" update 9. Redneck Computer Terms 10. "Canuck" in NAUGHTY MARIETTA ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 01:44:44 -0600 From: Greg Pulliam gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CHARLIE.CNS.IIT.EDU Subject: Re: throwed rolls As we drove east on Interstate 10, from Mississippi toward Pensacola FL, we saw several billboards touting the "throwed rolls" at a restaurant. Is anyone here familiar with "throwed rolls"? I'm familiar with this restaurant--they actually throw rolls at/to you when you ask for more. As far as I know, this is a trend that has failed to propagate, which may be for the best. Gregory J. Pulliam Illinois Institute of Technology Lewis Department of Humanities Chicago, IL 60616 gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]charlie.cns.iit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:35:49 -0500 From: Larry Horn laurence.horn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALE.EDU Subject: All-America teams Barry, in reference to your auto-suggestion... ALL-AMERICA College football is over. I have yet to trace the origin of All- America(n)--maybe I'll visit the Football Hall of Fame in Canton, Ohio one of these days. Spalding football guides began in 1903, but collegiate football guides began in 1883. The All America teams probably started in the 1890s. This is from the Asbury Park Daily Press, Gossip of the Gridiron by E. G. Westlake, 24 November 1899, pg. 3, col 5: ... be forwarned that what Canton, Ohio houses is just the Professional Football Hall of Fame. I was dere, Charley. I believe there is a college football HOF too, but I don't know where. Not that the Pro Football HOF wouldn't provide lots of interesting cites too, of course... (The Basketball Hall of Fame in Springfield, Mass. on the other hand is for both college and pro hoops.) Larry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:21:31 EST From: Dfcoye Dfcoye[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM Subject: Re: British actors in US As someone who has coached dialects and used them on stage I heartily second Greg Pulliam's assessment - and would only add that the original posting is another good example of the "I know all about language just because I speak it" phenomenon. Saying things like "learning British for an American involves dropping sounds so it's easier" is absurd. I assume they're referring to the /r/, but other sounds have to be "added" for an American learning RP- you have to distinguish metal from medal, you have to distinguish the vowels before /r/ in marry-merry-Mary, hurry-furry, mirror-meer if like most of Americans you don't. You have to merge the vowels of lore and law, and perhaps add a connecting R to the latter if followed by a vowel sound... Dale Coye Dept. of Eng. The College of NJ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:51:53 -0500 From: Grant Barrett gbarrett[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JERRYNET.COM Subject: RE throwed rolls Lambert's in Sikeston, Missouri, home of throwed rolls. It's one of those Interstate highway culture items, like Walnut Bowls and Stuckey's. I don't think Interstate 10 runs through Missouri. I do know that Lambert's has billboards all over the continental United States. Also, "throwed rolls" is usually pronounced "thowed roes" by the folks I know from that part of southeast Missouri, just north of the bootheel and an hour or so from the Mississippi River. Grant Barrett gbarrett[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]dfjp.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:40:33 -0600 From: Bonnie Briggs BBRIGGS[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ADMIN2.MEMPHIS.EDU Subject: Re: throwed rolls Oh yes, and there is no metaphor involved here. There is a restaurant in Missouri that started this "tradition". The name of the place and town escapes me now, but the gist of it is that you go in, sit down and the food is brought to your table in large serving bowls -- like people used to do at home before we became addicted to the television. A server walks through the dining area asking if anyone wants a roll. If you raise your hand, the server then throws you a roll. Hopefully you will catch said roll. I've never been to the place in Missouri, but I know several folks who have and they all seemed to enjoy their experience. I'm still into "pass the rolls, please" - I don't relish the thought of someone throwing anything to me at the dinner table. I believe several other places have picked up on this "down-home" type dining and copied the place in Missouri. Bonnie Briggs The University of Memphis As we drove east on Interstate 10, from Mississippi toward Pensacola FL, we saw several billboards touting the "throwed rolls" at a restaurant. Is anyone here familiar with "throwed rolls"? thanks, beth simon assistant professor, linguistics and english department of english and linguistics indiana university purdue university fort wayne, in 46805 219 481 6772 simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cvax.ipfw.indiana.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:25:57 -0500 From: Mark Mandel Mark[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]DRAGONSYS.COM Subject: FINDMAIL is archiving mailing lists without permission This is extracted from a regular internal posting of my ISP, world.std.com (Software Tool & Die), Newton, Mass. I apologize for posting it to the entire list, but I don't know who is the list maintainer. I will send them the entire article by email on request. Mark A. Mandel : Senior Linguist : mark[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]dragonsys.com Dragon Systems, Inc. : speech recognition : +1 617 965-5200 320 Nevada St., Newton, MA 02160, USA : http://www.dragonsys.com/ Personal home page: http://world.std.com/~mam/ =========================================================== TODAY on The WORLD Vol. 4 #002 Friday, January 02, 1998 =========================================================== TIP: FindMail may be archiving your mailing list email [...] FindMail is a (currently) free service that archives mailing list mail. In the past they have asked list owners if they may subscribe to the list in order to archive it, but now list owners are reporting FindMail is subscribing and archiving without asking permission from the owner. If you are the owner of a mailing list, you should check your list of members to see if findmail.com is subscribed. If they are, your list is being archived. Remove them from the list if you do not wish this archiving to happen. =========================================================== [] TODAY ON THE WORLD is (c) copyright 1998 by Software Tool & Die. Its contents may freely be redistributed as long as credit is given. =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:43:21 -0500 From: Gregory {Greg} Downing downingg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IS2.NYU.EDU Subject: Re: throwed rolls At 09:40 AM 1/5/98 -0600, you wrote: Oh yes, and there is no metaphor involved here. There is a restaurant in Missouri that started this "tradition". The name of the place and town escapes me now, but the gist of it is that you go in, sit down and the food is brought to your table in large serving bowls -- like people used to do at home before we became addicted to the television. A server walks through the dining area asking if anyone wants a roll. If you raise your hand, the server then throws you a roll. Hopefully you will catch said roll. I've never been to the place in Missouri, but I know several folks who have and they all seemed to enjoy their experience. I'm still into "pass the rolls, please" - I don't relish the thought of someone throwing anything to me at the dinner table. I believe several other places have picked up on this "down-home" type dining and copied the place in Missouri. Bonnie Briggs The University of Memphis O, I get it now: it's a gimmick, part of a theme restaurant. The formation "throwed rolls" probably plays off of past-participle/noun collocations used for particular versions of foods which have undergone a certain action as part of the food-prep process: filled/stuffed rolls or buns, raised muffins, beaten biscuits, mashed potatoes, **tossed salad** (maybe that's the joke here?), etc. Greg Downing/NYU, at greg.downing[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nyu.edu or downingg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]is2.nyu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:27:34 -0500 From: Elizabeth Gibbens gibbens[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]EROLS.COM Subject: No subject given Does anyone have an original citation for "kelly bag"? It is an old-fashioned, tailored handbag that's square in front. I've traced it to Women's Wear Daily of 1995-7 vintage with no connection to Grace Kelly mentioned; however, I believe that the purse must be named for her. Elizabeth Gibbens ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:05:33 -0500 From: Beverly Flanigan FLANIGAN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU Subject: Re: All-America teams "I vas dere, Charley"--wow, that's a real oldie, one my mother (b. 1906) used. Note that she, a Minnesotan, always said 'vas,' not 'was,' and the 's' was unvoiced. (She was obviously imitating a phrase she'd heard, but where did it come from?) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:47:31 -0600 From: Thomas Creswell creswell[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CROWN.NET Subject: Re: All-America teams now "I vas dere, Charley" I remember a radio program in the 30's featuring "Baron Munchausen"-- an inspired liar. When his interlocutor, Charley, expressed doubt about one of his tales, the Baron would always say," Vas you dere, Charley?" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:59:55 -0500 From: Larry Horn laurence.horn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALE.EDU Subject: Re: All-America teams Beverly Flanigan wrote, "I vas dere, Charley"--wow, that's a real oldie, one my mother (b. 1906) used. Note that she, a Minnesotan, always said 'vas,' not 'was,' and the 's' was unvoiced. (She was obviously imitating a phrase she'd heard, but where did it come from?) Actually, I only realized after reading my posted message that I had typed "was" rather than the obviously correct "vas", which my mind's ear somehow hears as an unstressed "fuss", German-style. And if anything the second-person interrogative is (or was) even more frequent: "Vas [fuss] you dere, Charley?" Larry (not a native speaker of the relevant dialect, but a native hearer of the expression) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 14:11:01 -0500 From: Beverly Flanigan FLANIGAN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU Subject: Re: All-America teams now "I vas dere, Charley" Ah, yes, the question form "Vas you dere, Charley?" rings an even louder bell in my memory, I suppose because the lack of S-V agr struck my prescriptivist-teenager ears. Dave Bergdahl adds that it was supposedly Yinglish (Yiddish English), but would Baron von Munchausen have spoken Yinglish? The radio program could make him whatever it wanted to, of course. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:28:11 -0800 From: Peter Richardson prichard[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]LINFIELD.EDU Subject: Re: throwed rolls Is anyone here familiar with "throwed rolls"? Sure they're not "thawed" rolls? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:02:17 -0600 From: Greg Pulliam gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CHARLIE.CNS.IIT.EDU Subject: Re: All-America teams be forwarned that what Canton, Ohio houses is just the Professional Football Hall of Fame. I was dere, Charley. I believe there is a college football HOF too, but I don't know where. Not that the Pro Football HOF wouldn't provide lots of interesting cites too, of course... (The Basketball Hall of Fame in Springfield, Mass. on the other hand is for both college and pro hoops.) The College Football Hall of Fame is in South Bend, Indiana. Gregory J. Pulliam Illinois Institute of Technology Lewis Department of Humanities Chicago, IL 60616 gpulliam[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]charlie.cns.iit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:26:40 -0800 From: Peter McGraw pmcgraw[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]LINFIELD.EDU Subject: Re: throwed rolls On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Gregory {Greg} Downing wrote: O, I get it now: it's a gimmick, part of a theme restaurant. The formation "throwed rolls" probably plays off of past-participle/noun collocations used for particular versions of foods which have undergone a certain action as part of the food-prep process: filled/stuffed rolls or buns, raised muffins, beaten biscuits, mashed potatoes, **tossed salad** (maybe that's the joke here?), etc. Greg Downing/NYU, at greg.downing[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nyu.edu or downingg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]is2.nyu.edu Along those lines, I'm looking forward to a billboard advertising a restaurant that features "tossed cookies." Peter McGraw ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 19:36:52 -0500 From: Gerald Cohen gcohen[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UMR.EDU Subject: "Mudville" update With Stockton, California (aka Mudville in the 19th century) holding an undisputed lead as the inspiration for Ernest Thayer's "Mudville" in his famous poem "Casey at the Bat," I telephoned the Massachusetts Historical Society (ll54 Boylston St., Boston MA 02205; 6l7-536-l608) to see if a Mudville might also have existed in Massachusetts. The result of the call: thus far no evidence has emerged that a Mudville existed in Massachusetts, although a definitive statement to this effect would require a search of all local sources. The ball now is in the court of whoever may believe that a Mudville did exist in Massachusetts. Where is the source to verify this belief? I am grateful to Jennifer Tolpa (Reference Librarian at the Mass. Hist. Soc.) for checking various sources: 1) _Massachusetts Encyclopedia Geographical, Geological, Historical and Topographical_, by Abraham Paluba. (evidently no date is given) 2) various gazeteers 3) _Historical Data Relating to Counties, Cities and Towns in Massachusetts_, by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 1975 edition. This book lists towns both present and past. 4) a few histories of the state (Ms. Tolpa checked the indexes), e.g. A.B. Hart's _Commonwealth History of Massachusetts_, 5 vols. (NY: Russell & Russell). 1966. None of the above sources mentions a Mudville. Barring any surprises, this message now concludes the search. On 12/19/97 Mr. Smith (Boston Globe) e-mailed me: "Thanks for the often-fascinaing info. Stockton is indeed looking strong...." My only request to Mr. Smith is that he let me know if he writes up anything on Mudville; I would of course want to share it with the ads-l subscribers. --Gerald Cohen gcohen[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]umr.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:40:26 EST From: Bapopik Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM Subject: Redneck Computer Terms This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_884050826_boundary Content-ID: 0_884050826[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]inet_out.mail.aol.com.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I'll forward this item a friend sent me. I don't think Gareth Branwyn wrote it--who knows? --Barry Popik --part0_884050826_boundary Content-ID: 0_884050826[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]inet_out.mail.aol.com.2 Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: hkayler[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cityu.edu Received: from relay11.mail.aol.com (relay11.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.11]) by air13.mail.aol.com (v37.8) with SMTP; Mon, 05 Jan 1998 12:41:35 -0500 Received: from inroads.cityu.edu (inroads.cityu.edu [192.220.247.110]) by relay11.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with SMTP id MAA01716 for Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:37:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from excalibur.cityu.edu (excalibur.cityu.edu [192.220.247.97]) by inroads.cityu.edu (8.6.5/8.6.6.1) with SMTP id JAA15569 for Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:37:43 -0800 Received: by excalibur.cityu.edu with VINES-ISMTP; Mon, 5 Jan 98 9:43:28 PST Date: Mon, 5 Jan 98 9:43:25 PST Message-ID: vines.g,x7+viFgoA[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]excalibur.cityu.edu X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: Arahm[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]accessone.com , Steve[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]stylos.net , John[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]American_image.com , Kimh[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ccc.wa.com , Madchen999[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM , Tmesis[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]msn.com , Phildrill[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]juno.com , Mmowat3885[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM , Cthorsen[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]microsoft.com , Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM From: hkayler[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cityu.edu "Heidi Kayler" Reply-To: hkayler[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cityu.edu Errors-to: hkayler[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cityu.edu Subject: Fwd: X-Incognito-SN: 591 X-Incognito-Version: 4.10.136 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Comments: Here's a chuckle for the new year. Heidi - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Original Message - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To: imail[alhileman[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]prodigy.net], imail[wessling[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]simadet.sea.mrms.navy.mil], Sandy Anderson[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HRD[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CityUniv, Celeste Lynch[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HRD[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CityUniv, Heidi Kayler[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HRD[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CityUniv, Nancy Johnson[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HRD[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CityUniv From: Laura Spangenberg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]Academics[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CityUniv Date: Monday, January 5, 1998 at 9:36:40 am PST Attached: None REDNECK COMPUTER TERMS BACKUP - What you do when you run across a skunk in the woods BAR CODE - Them's the fight'n rules down at the local tavern BUG - The reason you give for calling in sick BYTE - What your pit bull dun to cusin Jethro CACHE - Needed when you run out of food stamps CHIP - Pasture muffins that you try not to step in TERMINAL - Time to call the undertaker CRASH - When you go to Junior's party uninvited DIGITAL - The art of counting on your fingers DISKETTE - Female Disco dancer FAX - What you lie about to the IRS HACKER - Uncle Leroy after 32 years of smoking HARDCOPY - Picture looked at when selecting tattoos INTERNET - Where cafeteria workers put their hair KEYBOARD - Where you hang the keys to the John Deere MAC - Big Bubba's favorite fast food MEGAHERTZ - How your head feels after 17 beers MODEM - What ya did when the grass and weeds got too tall MOUSE PAD - Where Mickey and Minnie live NETWORK - Scoop'n up a big fish before it breaks the line ONLINE - Where to stay when taking the sobriety test ROM - Where the pope lives SCREEN - Helps keep the skeeters off the porch SERIAL PORT - A red wine you drink with breakfast SUPERCONDUCTOR - Amtrak's Employee of the year SCSI - What you call your week-old underwear --part0_884050826_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 21:35:08 EST From: Bapopik Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM Subject: "Canuck" in NAUGHTY MARIETTA A friend told me that "Canuck" is in the 1910 Victor Herbert operetta NAUGHTY MARIETTA. I don't know how I missed that--it was made into a popular 1935 film and I have a huge crush on Jeanette MacDonald. JEANETTE MACDONALD: I'm dead! The New York Public Library's copy (call number JNF 77-37) is signed by the stage star Emma Trentini ("Paul J. Woodward/ Nov. 18, 1910/ With love, Emma") and also by Victor Herbert! The text is also available in AMERICAN OPERA AND MUSIC FOR THE STAGE/ EARLY TWENTIETH CENTURY/ THREE CENTURIES OF AMERICAN MUSIC/ A COLLECTION OF AMERICAN SACRED AND SECULAR MUSIC, VOL. 6, edited by Martha Furman Schliefer, G. K. Hall & Co., 1990. NAUGHTY MARIETTA, a comic opera in two acts, had book and lyrics by Rida Johnson Young and music by Victor Herbert. It was presented by Oscar Hammerstein in New York City on 7 November 1910. The first act takes place in the Place D'Armes, New Orleans, about the year 1780. The song "Tramp! Tramp! Tramp!" is sung by Captain Dick (Captain Richard Warrington, or Nelson Eddy for you film fans) with Followers, _Allegro marcato_, and is on pages 43-48: We're Planters and Canucks, Virginians and Kaintucks, Captain Dick's own Infantry, Captain Dick's own Infantry! JEANETTE MACDONALD: I loved Captain Dick! POPIK: Tramp! Tramp! Tramp! This surely is an anachronism. The earliest "Canuck" we have is 1835, not 1780. This completely destroys the rigorous standards I have for turn-of- the-century light operettas. The MLA moves from Toronto to San Francisco next year. As everyone knows, Jeanette MacDonald's followup to NAUGHTY MARIETTA was SAN FRANCISCO-- JEANETTE MACDONALD: I refuse to talk about this. I'm dead! POPIK: The way you looked so good and were still able to sing "San Francisco" after that volcano was just incredible. JEANETTE MACDONALD: I'm not coming to the 1998 San Francisco MLA! It was a Hollywood set! It was an EARTHQUAKE! And I'm still dead!! POPIK: Whatever. ------------------------------ End of ADS-L Digest - 4 Jan 1998 to 5 Jan 1998 ********************************************** Subject: ADS-L Digest - 5 Jan 1998 to 6 Jan 1998 There are 7 messages totalling 263 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. ADS Luncheon Uncovered 2. "Mudville" update 3. Infoglut synonyms? 4. kelly bag 5. Help with recent message 6. Pron of the name of the 23rd letter of the alphabet Down Under? (2) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:15:33 -0500 From: "Dennis R. Preston" preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PILOT.MSU.EDU Subject: Re: ADS Luncheon Uncovered Allan, I'm not sure if I sent this message before;I meant to, but I'm in an e-mail frenzy these days. Carol says we paid for the luncheon, but neither of us wants the default. Carol Preston - Cheddar Burger (medium rare) Dennis Preston - Club Sandwich See you soon, Dennis At last, thanks to David Barnhart's pavement-pounding, we have a home for the ADS Annual Luncheon 1:00-2:15 pm Saturday, January 10. The speaker will be *William Labov* of the University of Pennsylvania. The place will be right across the street from our hotel: Houlihan's, 380 Lexington Ave. at 42nd Street. For $25 inclusive (payable to American Dialect Society), you will get - fresh garden salad with dressing - choice of entree - apple pie - unlimited coffee, tea and soda. You may also order other beverages from your server at additional cost. Now here is the deal on the choice of entree. We are supposed to tell the restaurant by *January 1* what our choice is. Naturally, not everyone will have been able to choose by then. So I'm making item 6 (Chicken Florentine) the default choice. But if you're going to the luncheon, and would like something different, please let me know by January 1. (Some of you have already paid. If not, you do not need to *pay* in advance, but advance reservations would be helpful; and they will also guarantee you a place. Send reservations and menu choices directly to me at AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com.) Choice of entrees: 1. Grilled chicken breast with mashed potatoes and sugar snap peas 2. Cheddar burger with lettuce, tomato, shaved red onion and natural cut fries 3. Plaza Club: sliced turkey breast and ham with bacon, provolone, shredded lettuce, tomato and mayo on freshly baked pan bread with natural cut fries 4. Chicken fingers with honey mustard dressing and natural cut fries 5. Chicken Caesar salad 6. Chicken Florentine: grilled chicken with Florentine sauce and vegetables. See you there! - Allan Metcalf, ADS Executive Secretary Dennis R. Preston Department of Linguistics and Languages Michigan State University East Lansing MI 48824-1027 USA preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]pilot.msu.edu Office: (517)353-0740 Fax: (517)432-2736 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:03:25 -0500 From: "Frank R. Abate" abatef[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]COMPUSERVE.COM Subject: "Mudville" update My check of evidence at hand shows the following: Mudville "locale" or "populated place" is in: TN, LA, TX per Omni Gazetteer Index (not historical, but quite complete for current names, esp. of populated places) There is no listing for Mudville at all in the 1876 "Monitor Guide to Pos= t Offices and RR Stations in the US and Canada" (publ. by Bullinger, 1876).= Also no listing for Mudville in the Street Directory of the Principal Cities of the US Embracing Letter-Carrier Offices Established to April 30= , 1908 (publ. by Postmaster-General, Washington; repub. by Gale), though th= is is truly only covering principal cities (about 1,200 places). Comment: Since "Mudville" had to fit the meter, and it is a somewhat les= s than positive name, it's my guess that it was made up for the poem. Frank Abate ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:05:19 -0500 From: Grant Barrett gbarrett[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JERRYNET.COM Subject: Infoglut synonyms? Does anyone have any synonyms for "infoglut"? I am putting together a tally of my regular reading and I need a word to describe it. Also, I need a word for a person who takes in all that information. I usually call myself an "infopig" but that suggests some kind of blissful pleasure involved with wallowing in all the information. Maybe "infoslave" would be better. Any suggestions? By the way, below is the list of my serious regular incoming information (so far). I used to have more, but I eliminated some lists and magazines that didn't have value. Also, the list does not include information sources that are primarily entertainment, press releases, junk mail, or when I find the New York Post in a cab (which, if you hear them tell it, is the only way most people ever read the Post). I am certain that my list is short compared to some subscribers to this list. Grant Barrett gbarrett[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]dfjp.com -- PRINT -- New York Times New Yorker New York Wired Harper's Weekly Village Voice New York Press Upside InternetWeek MacWeek Silicon Alley PCWeek Micro Publishing News New Media InformationWeek SunExpert Small Business Computing Print on Demand Solutions Network Computing Direct Marketing News Direct Marketing News International DRTV News Electronic Commerce World Computer Reseller News Integration Management Imaging Magazine Digital Production Executive MacWorld LanTimes Sales & Field Force Automation (just showed up in my mailbox yesterday. Free subscription. I'll send in the card and continue to get it until and stop if it proves to be useless, as some do). -- RADIO -- BBC (an hour each night either on WNYC at 11 p.m. or on shortwave any other evening hour on 5975 MHz, and also a little bit in the morning on 5965 or 9515 MHz) -- EMAIL -- InformationWeekDaily Wired Daily TidBits NetBits [AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NY NUA Internet Survey NUA Modest Proposals Infobeat Financial Daily Macway Evangelist -- WEB -- Macintouch MacOSRumors OGrady's PowerBook Page MacCentral Macintosh Resource Page MacFixit VersionTracker ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 15:26:52 +0000 From: Jim Rader jrader[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]M-W.COM Subject: Re: kelly bag The earliest cite I turned up through a quick search of Nexis was New York Times, May 8, 1982, where both Grace Kelly bag and Kelly bag are used. Grace Kelly bag turns up earlier, in the Washington Post for Nov. 11, 1979. Cites are in agreement that this was a handbag sold by Hermes (grave accent on last e), the Paris-based chain of shops selling very expensive women's accessories. There seem to be various versions of how Grace Kelly's name came to be associated with the handbag. According to the Atlanta Constitution (Oct. 16, 1994), Hermes actually supplied Grace Kelly with such a handbag. Another story is that "...in 1956, Princess Grace (nee Kelly) of Monaco, hid one of her pregnancies behind that very bag on a cover of Life magazine" (NYT Oct. 18, 1986); the fashion-conscious then requested copies of the bag. Merriam files have a picture of one version of the bag that appeared in the New York Times magazine (Aug. 11, 1985, p. 56). Jim Rader ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 15:20:45 -0500 From: "Margaret G. Lee -English" mlee[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CS.HAMPTONU.EDU Subject: Help with recent message Can someone send me the message of Jan. 2 regarding the university that developed a New Year's list of such slang words as "my bad," "whassup?", "yadda, yadda, yadda," etc. that should be banned. I inadvertently deleted it. Thanks, Margaret Lee Hampton University ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:06:33 -0500 From: "Bethany K. Dumas" dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTK.EDU Subject: Pron of the name of the 23rd letter of the alphabet Down Under? I have been assured that I will get a nice surprise if I can reveal how citizens Down Under pronounce the name of the 23rd letter of the alphabet. If you help me, I'll share (if the surprise is shareable!). Bethany The query: ----- I knew I should have just asked you in the first place!!!! Now, is "dub-ya" a strictly North American thing, or do they say it that way in those Upside Down Places Down Under? And the ten bucks I win from this one will buy you a surprise! ----- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:23:58 +0000 From: Duane Campbell dcamp[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]EPIX.NET Subject: Re: Pron of the name of the 23rd letter of the alphabet Down Under? At 08:06 PM 1/6/98 -0500, Bethany K. Dumas wrote: I have been assured that I will get a nice surprise if I can reveal how citizens Down Under pronounce the name of the 23rd letter of the alphabet. If you help me, I'll share (if the surprise is shareable!). That's easy. They pronounce it "emm". Duane Campbell dcamp[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]epix.net http://www.epix.net/~dcamp/ ------------------------------ End of ADS-L Digest - 5 Jan 1998 to 6 Jan 1998 ********************************************** Subject: ADS-L Digest - 6 Jan 1998 to 7 Jan 1998 There are 15 messages totalling 529 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. All America (1889) (2) 2. infoglut synonyms 3. Fwd: All-America query (2) 4. pronounce it MOTHERFUCKER 5. Pron of the name of the 23rd letter of the alphabet Down Under? 6. Beetle (2) 7. "I vas dere" 8. Rude Message from Denizen (5) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:12:24 EST From: Bapopik Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM Subject: All America (1889) "All America" is an Americanism. It's not slang, so it's not in the HISTORICAL DICTIONARY OF AMERICAN SLANG. It's not regional (it's All American), so it's not in the DICTIONARY OF AMERICAN REGIONAL ENGLISH. It wasn't in the DICTIONARY OF AMERICANISMS and it wasn't in the OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY that I could see. Drove me nuts!! At the College Football Hall of Fame in South Bend, Indiana, Nancy Eide (Nancy.Eide[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CollegeFootball.org) responded that "All America" was first used in "This Week's Sport" (whatever that is) in 1889. There must have been other lists published soon after this--leading to the phrase "everybody's All American" that I found ten years later and that was the title of a Frank Deford novel and film. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:22:22 -0600 From: Dan Goodman dsgood[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]VISI.COM Subject: infoglut synonyms While I don't have a synonym for "infoglut," I do have one for "infopig": info junkie. It's been around at least a couple of years, at least in the Twin Cities. Dan Goodman dsgood[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]visi.com http://www.visi.com/~dsgood/index.html Whatever you wish for me, may you have twice as much. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:37:20 -0500 From: Gregory {Greg} Downing downingg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IS2.NYU.EDU Subject: Re: All America (1889) At 12:12 AM 1/7/98 EST, you wrote: "All America" is an Americanism. It's not slang, so it's not in the HISTORICAL DICTIONARY OF AMERICAN SLANG. It's not regional (it's All American), so it's not in the DICTIONARY OF AMERICAN REGIONAL ENGLISH. It wasn't in the DICTIONARY OF AMERICANISMS and it wasn't in the OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY that I could see. Drove me nuts!! At the College Football Hall of Fame in South Bend, Indiana, Nancy Eide (Nancy.Eide[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CollegeFootball.org) responded that "All America" was first used in "This Week's Sport" (whatever that is) in 1889. There must have been other lists published soon after this--leading to the phrase "everybody's All American" that I found ten years later and that was the title of a Frank Deford novel and film. See also, in OED2, all, section E (combs., far down in the entry), meaning 6b, where the first cite, dated Nov. 1888, is from _Outing_ (a periodical, I imagine). All-American appears thirteen times times in OED2, but the early cites are in the passage just indicated. Greg Downing/NYU, at greg.downing[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nyu.edu or downingg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]is2.nyu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:01:19 EST From: Bapopik Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM Subject: Fwd: All-America query This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_884152879_boundary Content-ID: 0_884152879[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]inet_out.mail.aol.com.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII O.K., so much for expert help! Obviously, some work has to be done here... --part0_884152879_boundary Content-ID: 0_884152879[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]inet_out.mail.aol.com.2 Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Nancy.Eide[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CollegeFootball.org Received: from relay09.mail.aol.com (relay09.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.9]) by air19.mail.aol.com (v37.8) with SMTP; Tue, 06 Jan 1998 12:30:20 -0500 Received: from mail.JGSullivan.com (alwayshealthy.com [209.67.26.134]) by relay09.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id MAA06884 for Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:28:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from NANCYE (72.chicago-34.il.dial-access.att.net [12.67.129.72]) by mail.JGSullivan.com (8.8.4/8.7.2) with SMTP id MAA22967 for Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:24:36 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:24:36 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: 199801061724.MAA22967[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mail.JGSullivan.com X-Sender: neide[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]collegefootball.org (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 To: Bapopik Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM From: Nancy Eide Nancy.Eide[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CollegeFootball.org Subject: Re: All-America query Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit DEAR BARRY-THE TERM ALL AMERICA WAS FIRST USED IN 1889 IN "THIS WEEK'S SPORT". WE DO HAVE A LIBRARY-FOR AN APPOINTMENT, PLEASE CALL KENT STEPHENS AT 219-235-5711. THANK YOU FOR YOUR INQUIRY. At 12:22 PM 1/5/98 EST, you wrote: Dear College Football Hall of Fame, I've got a simple question! When was the first time (what publication?) that the term "All-America(n)" was used? Also, do you have a library? What are the hours? Do you have books and articles on football terminology? --Barry Popik Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com 225 East 57th Street, Apt. 7P New York, NY 10022 --part0_884152879_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 02:31:45 -0500 From: Denizen logger[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CALIFORNIA.COM Subject: pronounce it MOTHERFUCKER ALL LIST MEMBERS --- PRONOUNCE THIS --- GET ME OFF YOUR LIST................................ JERKS,ASSHOLES, MOTHERFUCKERS.......... WHY DO YOU PERMIT OTHER PEOPLE TO SUB OTHER PEOPLE'S ADDRESSES WITHOUT YOU CONFIRMING IT???? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 02:32:33 -0500 From: Denizen logger[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CALIFORNIA.COM Subject: Re: Pron of the name of the 23rd letter of the alphabet Down Under? get me off this list............. never asked to be on. At 08:23 PM 1/6/98 +0000, you wrote: At 08:06 PM 1/6/98 -0500, Bethany K. Dumas wrote: I have been assured that I will get a nice surprise if I can reveal how citizens Down Under pronounce the name of the 23rd letter of the alphabet. If you help me, I'll share (if the surprise is shareable!). That's easy. They pronounce it "emm". Duane Campbell dcamp[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]epix.net http://www.epix.net/~dcamp/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 02:33:44 -0500 From: Denizen logger[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CALIFORNIA.COM Subject: Re: Fwd: All-America query get me off this list. now,,,,,,,,,,,,,now,,,,,,,,,,,,,now,,,,,,,,,,,,,,now.................!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Or do we discuss raping penguins????????? At 01:01 AM 1/7/98 EST, you wrote: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_884152879_boundary Content-ID: 0_884152879[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]inet_out.mail.aol.com.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII O.K., so much for expert help! Obviously, some work has to be done here... --part0_884152879_boundary Content-ID: 0_884152879[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]inet_out.mail.aol.com.2 Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Nancy.Eide[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CollegeFootball.org Received: from relay09.mail.aol.com (relay09.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.9]) by air19.mail.aol.com (v37.8) with SMTP; Tue, 06 Jan 1998 12:30:20 -0500 Received: from mail.JGSullivan.com (alwayshealthy.com [209.67.26.134]) by relay09.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id MAA06884 for Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:28:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from NANCYE (72.chicago-34.il.dial-access.att.net [12.67.129.72]) by mail.JGSullivan.com (8.8.4/8.7.2) with SMTP id MAA22967 for Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:24:36 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:24:36 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: 199801061724.MAA22967[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mail.JGSullivan.com X-Sender: neide[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]collegefootball.org (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 To: Bapopik Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM From: Nancy Eide Nancy.Eide[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CollegeFootball.org Subject: Re: All-America query Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit DEAR BARRY-THE TERM ALL AMERICA WAS FIRST USED IN 1889 IN "THIS WEEK'S SPORT". WE DO HAVE A LIBRARY-FOR AN APPOINTMENT, PLEASE CALL KENT STEPHENS AT 219-235-5711. THANK YOU FOR YOUR INQUIRY. At 12:22 PM 1/5/98 EST, you wrote: Dear College Football Hall of Fame, I've got a simple question! When was the first time (what publication?) that the term "All-America(n)" was used? Also, do you have a library? What are the hours? Do you have books and articles on football terminology? --Barry Popik Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com 225 East 57th Street, Apt. 7P New York, NY 10022 --part0_884152879_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:56:56 -0500 From: Alan Baragona baragonasa[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]VAX.VMI.EDU Subject: Beetle A recent NYT article said that the Times was the first to describe the Volkswagen as a "beetle." RHD doesn't list "Beetle" as a car, and I don't have access to OED2 here at the moment. Could someone with access to Lexis confirm whether "Beetle" as a name for the car predates the Times reference? And if there isn't one in print, is there any indication from the Times whether it was coining the term or reflecting usage in speech at the time? Alan B. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:47:10 -0500 From: Mark Mandel Mark[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]DRAGONSYS.COM Subject: "I vas dere" Thomas Creswell creswell[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CROWN.NET I remember a radio program in the 30's featuring "Baron Munchausen"-- an inspired liar. When his interlocutor, Charley, expressed doubt about one of his tales, the Baron would always say," Vas you dere, Charley?" I've seen this question in print, used in the same way -- to answer a doubter's challenge to a story. I *think* that I saw it as "... Sharley?", but I'm not sure. The line occurred in dialogue, and I believe it was in quotes-within-quotes -- " 'Vas you dere, Sharley?' " -- to show that the speaker was consciously using a quotation. I have a strong feeling that the author was Robert A. Heinlein, who could very well have been a fan of the radio program, and the book may have been _The Number of the Beast_. My impulse is to, when I get home tonight, grab it and sit down to find the quotation, but I have done MUCH TOO MUCH of that lately (especially with Steven K.Z. Brust's "Dragaera" books*), and I know I'd damn well better not. (The book is 500 pages and would keep me up till 3 am if I let it.) Mark A. Mandel : Senior Linguist : mark[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]dragonsys.com Dragon Systems, Inc. : speech recognition : +1 617 965-5200 320 Nevada St., Newton, MA 02160, USA : http://www.dragonsys.com/ Personal home page: http://world.std.com/~mam/ * Dragaera observations : http://world.std.com/~mam/Cracks-and-Shards/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:38:19 -0500 From: Gregory {Greg} Downing downingg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IS2.NYU.EDU Subject: Re: Beetle At 08:56 AM 1/7/98 -0500, you (baragonasa[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]vax.vmi.edu) wrote: A recent NYT article said that the Times was the first to describe the Volkswagen as a "beetle." RHD doesn't list "Beetle" as a car, and I don't have access to OED2 here at the moment. Could someone with access to Lexis confirm whether "Beetle" as a name for the car predates the Times reference? And if there isn't one in print, is there any indication from the Times whether it was coining the term or reflecting usage in speech at the time? Alan B. OED2 beetle n.2, meaning 2c has a 1960 _Motor_ cite using the phrase "the familiar `beetle'" about the 1961 model of the vehicle. In car circles, it was apparently already seen as a somewhat well-known phrase at that date, but still needing (so to speak) "neologism quotation-marks." There is also a 1958 cite from _American Mercury_, and a still earlier cite that is in brackets (from a 1946 issue of _Motor_) because the cite says "rather like a beetle on stilts," indicating the author does not see "beetle" in this sense as a common noun yet. OED also cites the German noun K"afer, but does not say whether this is a parallel usage, or on the other hand the ancestor of the English "beetle" usage. Greg Downing/NYU, at greg.downing[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nyu.edu or downingg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]is2.nyu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:00:19 -0500 From: Grant Barrett gbarrett[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JERRYNET.COM Subject: Re: Rude Message from Denizen Note: This message has nothing to do with American Dialects. It is a collection of information about our rude subscriber. Interesting reading, I think. The author of the extremely rude messages is named Jon Erik Beckjord. Although he often uses "logger[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]california.com" as the reply-to address, his usual email address seems to be "erik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]crossfields.com". You might also try "davis[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uccomputers.com" , "ufomuseum[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com", "beckjord[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]transbay.net", "davis[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]transbay.net" or "ufobfmuseum[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]value.net". He appears to be the curator of the UFO, Bigfoot and Crop Circles Museum. The web site can be found at http://www.crossfields.com/~ufomus/. Beckjord's service provider can be reached at webmaster[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]crossfields.com. A short article on the museum can be found at http://www.cnn.com/US/9704/19/ufo.museum/index.html. A picture of Beckjord can be found at http://www.ufomind.com:80/ufo/people/b/beckjord/. Beckjord can possibly be reached at Box 9502, Berkeley, CA 94709 (510-848-2233), or 817 Columbus Ave., #161 San Francisco, CA 94133 (415-974-4339). He has indicated that he has a BA and MBA from UC Berkeley, and claims to be a tentative candidate for mayor of San Francisco. He has sent messages to newsgroups like law.listserv.net-lawyers looking for someone to handle a lawsuit against someone who he believes has maligned him. He posts messages to alt.privacy.anon-server looking for ways to send anonymous email, and also to alt.bigfoot.research, alt.paranormal.crop-circles, alt.conspiracy.area51 and misc.activism.militia. According to http://www.mcs.com/~kvg/smear/v42/ss950605.htm#beckjord2, Beckjord was found guilty of harassing a neighbor in Los Angeles. A mock trial was held on the "Jones and Jury" TV show on Jan. 25th, 1995. (Case No. 94-1082; Show No. 012595). [The information below is edited from a bio at http://www.four11.com/cgi-bin/Four11Main?userdetail&XX=&FormId=201,262F82D,3BF6700, 50EBEFA6_200,1,3BF6703,33C22E9B] Past High School: Bethesda-Chevy Chase HS Attended Tulane Univ., New Orleans, LA; UC-Berkeley Has worked as film crew member and urban planner. Has lived in London, Paris, New York City and Washington D.C. Has worked for US Air Force. As hobbies, includes skiing, sailing, reading, debating, anomalies, investigations and photography. [The information below is edited from a bio at http://www.ufomind.com:80/ufo/people/b/beckjord/profile.shtml] Formerly a Field investigator for MUFON in Los Angeles County. Operated Crypto-Zoology Museum in Malibu until it was burned out in l993 by Malibu fires. Operated 'UFO, Bigfoot & Loch Ness Monster Museum' in Venice district of Los Angeles for six months in l995." Believes in "Old Faithful," a UFO that shows up at the same time every morning over Area 51. Dismisses 50% of the Bigfoot 'physical animal' theorists, 60% of the Loch Ness 'physical animal' theorists. Beckjord claims to have taken "paranormal 'ghost' photos" of Nichole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman after the murders at Nichole's condo and at the O.J. house. Beckjord says: "[I support] positions that some UFOs may be nuts and bolts, whilst others may be energy-forms based on human OOBE trips, whilst others may be a collection of beings clustered together doing the shape-shifter boogy. Source may be ultra= dimensional (a la Keel and Vallee) but some could be interstellar. Other UFOs may be simply advanced craft we are testing. No one position is the real truth." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:45:30 -0500 From: Gregory {Greg} Downing downingg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IS2.NYU.EDU Subject: Re: Rude Message from Denizen At 11:00 AM 1/7/98 -0500, you (Grant Barrett gbarrett[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JERRYNET.COM ) wrote: Note: This message has nothing to do with American Dialects. It is a collection of information about our rude subscriber. Interesting reading, I think[....] Well, after reading through the fascinating material that followed, I think it sounds as if he is perfectly capable of unsubbing himself. Or did the CIA subscribe him? Maybe he thinks the _American_ Dialect Soc. is part of a govt. conspiracy against him. Denizen of where, by the way? Just wondering. Greg Downing/NYU, at greg.downing[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nyu.edu or downingg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]is2.nyu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:47:54 -0500 From: Jesse T Sheidlower jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PANIX.COM Subject: Re: Rude Message from Denizen At 11:00 AM 1/7/98 -0500, you (Grant Barrett gbarrett[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JERRYNET.COM ) wrote: Note: This message has nothing to do with American Dialects. It is a collection of information about our rude subscriber. Interesting reading, I think[....] Well, after reading through the fascinating material that followed, I think it sounds as if he is perfectly capable of unsubbing himself. Or did the CIA subscribe him? Maybe he thinks the _American_ Dialect Soc. is part of a govt. conspiracy against him. For what it's worth, the address from which he sent his various messages is not subscribed to the ADS list; I don't know how he expects anyone to unsubscribe him. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:01:49 -0500 From: Gregory {Greg} Downing downingg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IS2.NYU.EDU Subject: Re: Rude Message from Denizen At 11:47 AM 1/7/98 -0500, you (Jesse T Sheidlower jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PANIX.COM ) wrote: For what it's worth, the address from which he sent his various messages is not subscribed to the ADS list; I don't know how he expects anyone to unsubscribe him. For what it's worth, I've seen folks like him before. They have zillions of accounts because they are always posting things that get them in trouble with their ISPs, and are being unsubbed or blocked, but want to retain access through alternate channels. They also tend to forge their headers so you don't know where they are posting from, unless you really know all the technical ins and outs of e-mail. On another list I'm on, there's a guy with at least six diferent addresses/accounts at any given time, maybe more. When they unsub one address, he uses or obtains another. All this to say that the address through which he's getting ADS messages may or may not have anything at all to do with the address from which he SEEMS (note emphatic caps) to have posted to the list. Greg Downing/NYU, at greg.downing[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nyu.edu or downingg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]is2.nyu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:09:08 -0800 From: "Thomas L. Clark" tlc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NEVADA.EDU Subject: Re: Rude Message from Denizen Grant Barret's message, revealing EVERYTHING about our rude visitor from an alien life had me ROTFL. I used to be concerned that almost everything about me could be collected by various searches on the web. But Grant's "outing" of our subDenizen has to demonstrate such power used by the forces of good. Cheers, tlc Thomas L. Clark Department of English University of Nevada, Las Vegas Las Vegas NV 89154-5011 tlc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nevada.edu 702/895-3473 FAX 702/895-4801 ------------------------------ End of ADS-L Digest - 6 Jan 1998 to 7 Jan 1998 ********************************************** Subject: ADS-L Digest - 7 Jan 1998 to 8 Jan 1998 There are 8 messages totalling 287 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. BOOK REVIEW: Medical Meanings: A Glossary of Word Origins 2. Ski/Skee 3. fame 4. ADS Search Engine 5. RE ADS Search Engine (2) 6. RE ADS Search Engine 7. "as best as I can remember" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 01:19:26 EST From: Bapopik Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM Subject: BOOK REVIEW: Medical Meanings: A Glossary of Word Origins BOOK REVIEW: MEDICAL MEANINGS: A GLOSSARY OF WORD ORIGINS by William S. Haubrich, M.D., F.A.C.P. American College of Physicians, 1997 253 pages, $29.95 This book reminds me of LADYFINGERS & NUN'S TUMMIES (about food words). You read it, and it's mildly interesting. Then you realize this has been done before, probably several times before. Then you check a few entries. Then you start to get really mad! In a year, this is the type of book that could appear on the Barnes & Noble or Strand book store discount shelves, and at $8.95 you'll go home happy. At $29.95 for 253 pages (without illustrations or charts or diagrams), you want your money back. The jacket states, "Enjoyable for browsing, indispensable for research (really?--ed.), _Medical Meanings_ is a unique volume (unique?--ed.), one sure to please students, physicians, and word connoisseurs." There you have it. I'm sure to be pleased! Author Haubrich, the back flap tells us, has written more than 115 original or review articles for major medical journals and served as consultant in the life sciences for THE AMERICAN HERITAGE DICTIONARY OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE, 3RD EDITION. Basically, a word is presented, the Latin and Greek roots are explained, and that's it!! No historical citations. No slang and current jargon. The book looks like it could have been written 500 years ago! There's no bibliography. In the acknowledgments, the author credits Henry Alan Skinner's THE ORIGIN OF MEDICAL TERMS (1949, 1961 2nd ed.), the OED, DORLAND'S ILLUSTRATED MEDICAL DICTIONARY, Skeat's ETYMOLOGICAL DICTIONARY, Brewer's DICTIONARY OF PHRASE AND FABLE, BULFINCH'S MYTHOLOGY, Patridge's A SHORT ETYMOLOGICAL DICTIONARY OF MODERN ENGLISH, and the OXFORD DICTIONARY OF ENGLISH ETYMOLOGY. No wonder it seems musty. No credit is given to 1995's CURRENT MED TALK: A DICTIONARY OF MEDICAL TERMS, SLANG & JARGON by Joseph Segen. That book (which may soon be headed for a second edition) is much more current and lively, and included article citations. It was not an historical dictionary and it looked more like a med tome than DARE or the RHHDAS, but it was a grand, long-overdue start. For example, "gaspers" is not in MEDICAL MEANINGS, nor is "auto-erotic asphyxiation"--medical terms we discussed here on ADS-L. I looked up a bunch of sex terms such as "homosexual" and "transvestite"--neither is in MEDICAL MEANINGS, but "homo-" and "trans-" are. How unique! I got on Amazon.com and found out that MEDICAL TERMS: THEIR ROOTS AND ORIGINS by A. R. Tindall was due out August 1997, but I haven't seen it yet. A book called MEDICAL TERMINOLOGY FROM GREEK AND LATIN by Sandra Thompson and Lawrence Petterson was published in June 1978. The "unique" MEDICAL MEANINGS did not cite it. Also not cited in the "unique" MEDICAL MEANINGS is MEDICAL TERMINOLOGIES: CLASSICAL ORIGINS by John Scarbrorough, published in November 1992. The words in MEDICAL MEANINGS are presented alphabetically and are not grouped at all by any medical specialty. Thanks a lot. I haven't read the reviews, but CHOICE (October 1997, pp. 275-276) gave the book a favorable review and JAMA (August 27, 1997, pp. 688-689) gave it a mixed review. AMERICAN SPEECH hasn't reviewed it. Although there are many medical dictionaries and word books, a top-quality historical dictionary of medical terminology (that includes slang and jargon) is still needed. If you buy both CURRENT MED TALK and MEDICAL MEANINGS, you'll have spent about $80 and you'll have come close, but you still won't have that cool medical word book/database that you can impress on your friends who watch ER. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 01:19:47 EST From: Bapopik Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM Subject: Ski/Skee Remember all those bumper stickers that read, "I'd Rather Be Skiing"? Where are they now? "Ski" seems like it's been around forever, but the citations don't start (with one 1755 exception) until 1885, and even then we have to wait until the 1920s and 1930s to see "ski" and "skiing" become generally accepted. On my trip to Canada, I was also looking for "hockey." The articles on Canada's winter sports mentioned "snow-shoes" and "snow-shoeing"--today's "skis" and "skiing." The modern word comes from Norway. A Worldcat check for 19th century "ski" citations didn't turn up much. An 1890 book by Fridtjof Nansen about an 1888-89 Greenland expedition is called PAA SKI OVER GRONLAND (the 1892 English translation is THE FIRST CROSSING OF GREENLAND). In the 12 January 1892 HARPER'S YOUNG PEOPLE, Charles Hildreth Blair wrote ""'Skees' and how to make and use them." An 1894 serial from Oslo is titled SNO OG SKI. In 1895, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle published THE LORD OF CHATEAU NOIR, which included "An Alpine pass on ski." In 1898, Sir William Martin Conway published WITH SKI & SLEDGE OVER ARCTIC GLACIERS. About 1900, the Theodore A Johnsen Company published THE WINTER SPORT OF SKEEING. In C. J. J.'s (?) 1902 book, OTIS GREY, BACHELOR, there is a chapter on "Skiing." In 1902, Ned Taylor published KING OF THE WILD WEST'S WILD GOOSE BAND, OR, STELLA'S LONG FLIGHT ON SKEES. In HUTCHINGS' CALIFORNIA MAGAZINE (San Francisco), vol. 1, no. 8, February 1857, there is an article called "Crossing the Sierras--Norwegian snow skates," describing the adventures of John A. Thompson ("Snowshoe Thompson"). The Worldcat Notes have this: "This is probably first American article about skiing", N. L. Goodrich. I don't know about that. I'm just getting started. Let me look up "All American" under "American" again... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 01:00:20 -0800 From: Kim & Rima McKinzey rkm[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SLIP.NET Subject: fame So here I am, home, working (instead of being in NY with the rest of you), and listening to a KFRC in San Francisco, an oldie station. The 11:00-3:00 DJ starts talking about the American Dialect Society that she had just heard of. She mentions the WOTY and asks for suggestions from her listeners. She said she would forward it on (I'll assume she did - though she never did say from where she got her information). Then the DJs from 3:00-7:00 had an interview with Allan Metcalf. A nice surprise. It wasn't quite like being there in NY and being part of the voting, but it was a kick. Rima ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:52:55 -0500 From: Alan Baragona baragonasa[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]VAX.VMI.EDU Subject: ADS Search Engine Okay, I've done it again. Somehow lost the URL for the experimental search engine for the ADS archive, and since the December messages, when I think it was last mentioned, haven't been posted to the ADS page, I can't find it. The usual Web search engines turn up nothing or too much to winnow. I PROMISE I'll never ask for this site again. I'm at home building a web page for my HEL course and would like to include a link to the search engine on it, with permission, of course. Thanks. Alan B. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:07:34 -0500 From: Grant Barrett gbarrett[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JERRYNET.COM Subject: RE ADS Search Engine The current, working version is at http://www.dfjp.com/cgi-bin/warpsearch.html Please note that Internet Explorer version 4.0 for the Macintosh, released yesterday, interprets tables poorly (or perhaps with less forgiveness), and your search results will not having clickable links. I recommend using a different browser until I can fix this. If you are using a different browser and still having problems, please let me know. I am working on a pre-indexed search engine that should be faster, but it, too, is giving me problems. Stay tuned. Grant Barrett gbarrett[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]dfjp.com -------------------------------------- Date: 1/8/98 11:05 AM To: Grant Barrett From: Alan Baragona Okay, I've done it again. Somehow lost the URL for the experimental search engine for the ADS archive, and since the December messages, when I think it was last mentioned, haven't been posted to the ADS page, I can't find it. The usual Web search engines turn up nothing or too much to winnow. I PROMISE I'll never ask for this site again. I'm at home building a web page for my HEL course and would like to include a link to the search engine on it, with permission, of course. Thanks. Alan B. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:27:25 -0500 From: Alan Baragona baragonasa[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]VAX.VMI.EDU Subject: Re: RE ADS Search Engine Grant, Just tried it using Netscape, and it worked fine. Readable tables, clickable results. Thanks. Grant Barrett wrote: The current, working version is at http://www.dfjp.com/cgi-bin/warpsearch.html Please note that Internet Explorer version 4.0 for the Macintosh, released yesterday, interprets tables poorly (or perhaps with less forgiveness), and your search results will not having clickable links. I recommend using a different browser until I can f ix this. If you are using a different browser and still having problems, please let me know. I am working on a pre-indexed search engine that should be faster, but it, too, is giving me problems. Stay tuned. Grant Barrett gbarrett[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]dfjp.com -------------------------------------- Date: 1/8/98 11:05 AM To: Grant Barrett From: Alan Baragona Okay, I've done it again. Somehow lost the URL for the experimental search engine for the ADS archive, and since the December messages, when I think it was last mentioned, haven't been posted to the ADS page, I can't find it. The usual Web search engines turn up nothing or too much to winnow. I PROMISE I'll never ask for this site again. I'm at home building a web page for my HEL course and would like to include a link to the search engine on it, with permission, of course. Thanks. Alan B. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:57:00 -0500 From: Grant Barrett gbarrett[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JERRYNET.COM Subject: RE ADS Search Engine I have hacked at the results code for the CGI (common gateway interface) script, and the tables now display correctly in Internet Explorer 4.0 for Macintosh, with clickable links and everything. Grant Barrett gbarrett[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]dfjp.com -------------------------------------- From: Grant Barrett Please note that Internet Explorer version 4.0 for the Macintosh, released yesterday, interprets tables poorly (or perhaps with less forgiveness), and your search results will not having clickable links. I recommend using a different browser until I can fix this. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:38:30 -0500 From: Gerald Cohen gcohen[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UMR.EDU Subject: Re: "as best as I can remember" This past July there were several ads-l messages dealing with the construction "as best as I can remember"; the consensus was that this construction is illogical, but I do not remember a clear explanation as to how it originated. I believe the construction almost certainly originated as a syntactic blend--a good example of which is "time and again," blended from "time after time" and "again and again." In the case of "as best as I can remember," let's leave off "remember" for the moment and operate with the following context: "I'll do it as well as I can" and "I'll do it to the best of my ability." These two can blend to produce "I'll do it as best as I can." With "as best as" now interchangeable with "as well as" (in this initial context), its use was extended to other contexts, e.g. "as best as I can remember." I have spent 20 years on and off collecting examples of syntactic blends in English--mostly those in "parole" (i.e. not part of standard speech). I refer interested readers to two items I have written on blends: 1) Gerald Leonard Cohen: _Syntactic Blends in English _Parole_ _ (=Forum Anglicum, vol. 15). Frankfurt a.M.: Peter Lang, 1987. 178 pp. --This work consist primarily of a long of syntactic blends, with the collection aimed at providing the raw material for further analysis and at emphasizing the frequency of syntactic blending in everyday speech. 2) Gerald Leonard Cohen: "Contributions to the Study of Blending." in: _Etymology and Linguistic Principles, vol. l: Pursuit of Linguistic Insight_, 1988, pp.81-94. I edit and publish this series. gcohen[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]umr.edu ------------------------------ End of ADS-L Digest - 7 Jan 1998 to 8 Jan 1998 ********************************************** Subject: ADS-L Digest - 8 Jan 1998 to 9 Jan 1998 There are 9 messages totalling 404 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Kazoo 2. change of a ten (3) 3. Full Ivana 4. RE Full Ivana 5. Fwd: Kenneth and Patricia Langen langbro[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]sdcoe.k12.ca.us : Rules Grammar Change 6. RMMLA/ADS call for papers 7. asbestos...? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 04:31:10 EST From: Bapopik Bapopik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM Subject: Kazoo Before you throw this stupid little thing out (the connection of New Year's and "zoo" is purely serendipitous), here are two items. The DICTIONARY OF AMERICANISMS has 31 October 1884 and states "origin obscure." This is from the Brooklyn Daily Eagle, 26 September 1884, pg. 2, col. 3: A Republican editor in announcing the invention of a new musical instrument says it is called the "zazoo" because "it sounds like a zazoological garden when all the animals are howling." If this comparison is just we suppose the sessions of Mr. Clapp's assessment committee would remind the editor of somebody playing on the zazoo. This is from the Chicago Express, 4 September 1886, pg. 5, col. 6: Smith, the "Kazoo" Inventor. There is an enviable example of prosperity up in Union square. His name is Smith, and he is getting rich rapidly out of a big restaurant called the "Dairy Kitchen." It is conducted on the temperance plan, and a band of skillful musicians discourses good light music during the afternoon and evening. The place caught the tide of favor from the start. Smith made his money to establish the business in a curious way. He is an inventive genius, with a fondness for music. The latter element should have prevented his creating the masterpiece of his life, but it did not. Invention triumphed, and the result was the "kazoo," a musical monstrosity that sounds somewhat like the song of a petulant tom cat. Smith looked after its introduction to the world personally, and as he is expert in advertising resources, he suceeded almost beyond belief. He took his horror to Baltimore, and within a week the town was wild. The street boys were blowing kazoos; of course, that would be expected; but the hotel clerks, the dry goods clerks, the young men about town, and even the banjo-loving girls, took the craze, and the sound of kazoos rent the air. They organized kazoo bands, had kazoo excursions and kazoo dinner parties. It came near getting into politics, and might have if Smith had stayed another week, He made $11,000 clear within a year, and then settled down to be a caterer. Perhaps his conscience smote him, and perhaps the craze ran out. If the latter, the inventor wisely stood from under and escaped with his profits.--"Uncle Bill's" New York Letter. Kazoo web sites--none of which gives the etymology nor identifies "Smith"--include: http://www.streethockey.com/brimms/kazoo_his.html http://www.streethockey.com/brimms/kazoo_mus.html http://www.kazoobie.com/kazoofax.htm http://www.dartmouth.edu/~mbrewer/kazoo.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 07:53:28 EST From: simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU Subject: change of a ten Is anyone familiar with "change of a X" e.g. "Excuse me. Do you have change of a ten" as opposed to "change for a X" (Do you have change for a ten) thanks, beth simon assistant professor, linguistics and english indiana university purdue university 219 481 6772 simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cvax.ipfw.indiana.edu simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ipfw.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:08:39 -0500 From: Evan Morris words1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]WORD-DETECTIVE.COM Subject: Full Ivana from The New York Post Online, 01/09/98, "Neal Travis' New York" gossip column: THE "Mayflower Madam" is going into dry dock to have a refit. Sydney Biddle Barrows threw a party for pals at Wilson's bar on the Upper West Side last night to "say goodbye to my old face." The vivacious and blue-blooded Barrows says she is having what she calls "the full Ivana," via plastic surgeon Dr. Thomas Romo. She expects to emerge "totally reborn." -- Evan Morris words1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]word-detective.com http://www.word-detective.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:34:56 -0500 From: Gregory {Greg} Downing downingg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IS2.NYU.EDU Subject: Re: change of a ten At 07:53 AM 1/9/98 EST, you wrote: Is anyone familiar with "change of a X" e.g. "Excuse me. Do you have change of a ten" as opposed to "change for a X" (Do you have change for a ten) thanks, beth simon I've heard it fairly often in NYC, where "change for/of a dollar" came up commonly on buses throughout the 70s, 80s and early-to-mid 90s due to the requirement to pay the fare in exact change using coins only (one doesn't hear it so much now that people have started to pay the fare with a dip-card). I always imagined the "for"-construction emphasized the exchange aspect of making change, and the "of"-construction stated a more vague relationship between a ten and whatever you could (ex)change it for. Greg Downing/NYU, at greg.downing[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nyu.edu or downingg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]is2.nyu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:27:34 -0800 From: "A. Maberry" maberry[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]U.WASHINGTON.EDU Subject: Re: change of a ten I've never heard it here in the Northwest. Allen maberry[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]u.washington.edu On Fri, 9 Jan 1998 simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU wrote: Is anyone familiar with "change of a X" e.g. "Excuse me. Do you have change of a ten" as opposed to "change for a X" (Do you have change for a ten) thanks, beth simon assistant professor, linguistics and english indiana university purdue university 219 481 6772 simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cvax.ipfw.indiana.edu simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ipfw.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:07:10 -0500 From: Grant Barrett gbarrett[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JERRYNET.COM Subject: RE Full Ivana I first heard "the full Ivana" in the movie "First Wives' Club" in which Bette Midler, Goldie Hawn and Diane Keaton discuss plastic surgery. -------------------------------------- From: Evan Morris The vivacious and blue-blooded Barrows says she is having what she calls "the full Ivana," via plastic surgeon Dr. Thomas Romo. She expects to emerge "totally reborn." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:57:56 EST From: CLAndrus CLAndrus[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM Subject: Fwd: Kenneth and Patricia Langen langbro[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]sdcoe.k12.ca.us : Rules Grammar Change This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_884372275_boundary Content-ID: 0_884372275[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]inet_out.mail.aol.com.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I thought everyone would enjoy this piece. Hope no one objects. Carol Andrus --part0_884372275_boundary Content-ID: 0_884372275[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]inet_out.mail.aol.com.2 Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: maryanneraphael[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]juno.com Received: from relay31.mail.aol.com (relay31.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.31]) by air06.mail.aol.com (v37.8) with SMTP; Thu, 08 Jan 1998 01:47:51 -0500 Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by relay31.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id BAA20908 for CLAndrus[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 01:39:12 -0500 (EST) Received: (from maryanneraphael[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id BmU21710; Thu, 08 Jan 1998 01:38:59 EST To: CLAndrus[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 22:40:26 -0800 Subject: Kenneth and Patricia Langen langbro[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]sdcoe.k12.ca.us : Rules Grammar Change Message-ID: 19980107.224053.3982.3.maryanneraphael[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]juno.com X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-75 From: maryanneraphael[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]juno.com (maryanne j raphael) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: Kenneth and Patricia Langen langbro[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]sdcoe.k12.ca.us To: maryanne maryanneraphael[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]juno.com Subject: Rules Grammar Change Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 22:20:43 -0800 Message-ID: 34B4703B.6FD6[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]sdcoe.k12.ca.us Hi Maryanne! Thought you would want to know about the new changes in the language laws! Rules Grammar Change WASHINGTON, DC--The U.S. Grammar Guild Monday announced that no more will traditional grammar rules English follow. Instead there will a new form of organizing sentences be. U.S. Grammar Guild according to, the new structure loosely on an obscure 800-year-old, pre-medieval Anglo-Saxon syntax is based. The syntax primarily verbs, verb clauses and adjectives at the end of sentences placing involves. Results this often, to ears American, a sentence backward appearing. "Operating under we are, one major rule," said Joyce Watters, president of the U.S. Grammar Guild. "Make English, want we, more archaic and dignified sounding to be, as if every word coming from the tongue of a centuries-old, mystical wizard, is." Brief pause Watters made then a. "Know I, know I," said she. "Confusing sounds it, but every American used to it soon will be." At a press conference recent greeted warmly the new measure by President Clinton was. "No longer will we adhere to the dull, predictable structure of our traditional grammar system. This nation will now begin speaking, writing and listening to something fresh, exciting and different," said Clinton. "Excuse me," added he pause long after a. "Meant I, the dull, predictable system our traditional grammar of adhere to no longer will we. Speaking, writing and listening to something fresh, exciting and different will this nation now begin." This week beginning, America across, all d