There are 9 messages totalling 166 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. 'kittern'

 2. sex and slang (2)

 3. Query about terms (4)

 4. Two Things

 5. 'rush hour'



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 1 Jun 1995 09:23:19 -0500

From:  Cynthia Bernstein  bernscy[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAIL.AUBURN.EDU 

Subject: Re: 'kittern'



DARE reports that "kittering" = "catering" [=catercorner] and is chiefly

NEng.



Cindy Bernstein



On Wed, 31 May 1995, wachal robert s wrote:



  Does anyone know anything about the term 'kittern' = 'cattywampus'?

 

  Bob Wachal

 



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 1 Jun 1995 11:55:02 -0400

From:  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM

Subject: Re: sex and slang



To follow up on Tim Frazer's citation:



Hugh Rawson.

Wicked Words: A Treasury of Curses, Insults, Put-Downs, and Other Formerly

Unprintable Terms from Anglo-Saxon Times to the Present.

New York: Crown Trade Paperback, 1989. ISBN 0-517-59089-1

435 pages; entries are discursive, with citations and historical discussion.



(- Allan Metcalf)



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 1 Jun 1995 14:16:47 -0400

From:  "Christopher R. Coolidge"  ccoolidg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MOOSE.UVM.EDU 

Subject: Re: Query about terms



 I believe rock and roll was a black vernacular slang for sex. I remember

the phrase "hard rock" being applied to groups like Led Zeppelin, Black Sab-

bath and Alice Cooper when I was in grade school in the early 70's. You did-

n't list it, but I know the term "heavy metal" was coined in Steppenwolf's

"Born To Be Wild."(the line ..."heavy metal thunder")



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 1 Jun 1995 15:24:32 -0400

From:  Jesse T Sheidlower  jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PANIX.COM 

Subject: Re: Query about terms



  You did-

  n't list it, but I know the term "heavy metal" was coined in Steppenwolf's

  "Born To Be Wild."(the line ..."heavy metal thunder")



Not quite correct. First, the Steppenwolf line is talking about

motorcycles, not music ("I like smoke and lightning, heavy metal thunder,

racing with the wind" etc.). Second, the phrase "heavy metal"

occurred four years earlier in William S. Burroughs novel _Nova Express_

(1964). However, I have little doubt that the use of the phrase in

the Steppenwolf song did influence its later (1970s) application to

the music.



I missed the original post, so can't comment on the other terms.



Jesse Sheidlower

Random House Reference



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 1 Jun 1995 16:19:04 -0500

From:  Grant Barrett  gbarrett[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]KB.COM 

Subject: Two Things



    Reply to:  Two Things

I need to unsubscribe to this list, but I cannot find my how-to file. Can

someone send me the info?



Thanks so much.



As a bonus, hereUs a little nonsense verse my uncle used to half-sing. Anyone

got any clues to its origin or meaning?



RH-U buckle, B-U buckle, huckle-buckle-Y, B-U buckle, H-U buckle, huckleberry

pie.S



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 1 Jun 1995 17:38:42 -0500

From:  "Bethany Dumas, UTK"  DUMASB[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Re: Query about terms



Thanks, Christopher. What's your first recollection of "rap"?



Bethany



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 1 Jun 1995 16:27:58 +0300

From:  Stewart Mason  masons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ZIAVMS.ENMU.EDU 

Subject: Re: Query about terms



 Thanks, Christopher. What's your first recollection of "rap"?

 

I don't know about Christopher, but I first heard "rap" in my

brown-rice-and-sandals hometown of Boulder, Colorado, in the mid-1970s,

used by the people who later became New Agers. To "rap" was to talk openly

and honestly about one's feelings, and it probably involved hugging. I

wouldn't know for sure, because I tended to avoid people who said such

things, even at such a tender age.



I first heard the term used in a musical context in the 1979 single

"Rapper's Delight" by the Sugar Hill Gang (available on the album _Sugar

Hill Gang_, Sugar Hill Records, or any number of recent compilation CDs).

However, this was merely the first rap record to penetrate to my

upper-middle-class suburb (it was the first to reach the top 40), so I have

no doubt that it was being used in Harlem and Brooklyn, where rap was born,

well before that. Therefore, it's probably pretty unlikely that the two

words are directly related, though they may have a common source.



Nelson George's book _Buppies, B-Boys and Bohos_ includes a couple chapters

on the development of rap, and can also point you towards other histories

of the music that may be useful.



Stewart



_______________________________________________

Stewart Allensworth Mason

PO Box 4056

Portales NM 88130



***MY FAVORITE OBSCURE INDIE SINGLES***



1. "New Love"/"I Don't Like You"--The Muffs (1991)

2. "Hard Look At Perfect"/"Heyday"--Matt Allison (1989)

3. _ALRN_ e.p.--Alternate Learning (1979)

4. "Try Happiness"/"Stephanie"/"A Gentle Sigh"--Blueboy (1992)

5. _Stance_ e.p.--R. Stevie Moore (1977)

6. _Angels of Epistemology_ e.p.--The Angels of Epistemology (1990)



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 1 Jun 1995 22:05:45 -0400

From:  James C Stalker  stalker[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PILOT.MSU.EDU 

Subject: Re: sex and slang



Geoffrey Hughes'  Swearing: A Social History of Foul Language, Oaths, and

Profanity in English , Blackwell, 1991, might be of use.



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 1 Jun 1995 22:21:02 -0400

From:  James C Stalker  stalker[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PILOT.MSU.EDU 

Subject: Re: 'rush hour'



. . . . .

  indirectly) traffic jams: the fact that people RUSH to work or back home

  during rush hours? Incidentally, in ON LANGUAGE CHANGE, Rudi Keller uses an



I had always assumed that this was the case, especially when I watched people

rush out of the office heading for the subways when I lived in NYC. It was a

stampede. Everyone did seem to be in a rush to get home or the bar or

whatever. The OED gives citations starting in 1898, so we have been rushing

for quite a long time!



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 31 May 1995 to 1 Jun 1995

***********************************************





There are 5 messages totalling 123 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. variants: markers, indexes, stereotypes? (3)

 2. Query about terms (2)



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 2 Jun 1995 07:51:01 -0500

From:  "Timothy C. Frazer"  mftcf[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UXA.ECN.BGU.EDU 

Subject: Re: variants: markers, indexes, stereotypes?



Somewhere, Labov classes variants in the following ways, tho my memory is

imperfect:

1. Those that are not perceived by the community but are detectable as

variants by objective oberservation.

2. Those that people respond to on something like a subjective reaction

test but can't describe (?)

3. Those that people are overtly aware of, and can, say, imitate.



I seem to recall that there are names for these: markers, indexes,

stereotypes?



I thought this was in Sociolinguistic Patterns, 1972, but I can't find it.

CAn anyone help to correct my imperfect memory and also tell me where to

find it? I need this today! I'll come back online this afternoon.



Tim Frazer



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 2 Jun 1995 13:00:06 -0400

From:  "Christopher R. Coolidge"  ccoolidg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MOOSE.UVM.EDU 

Subject: Re: Query about terms



On Thu, 1 Jun 1995, Bethany Dumas, UTK wrote:



  Thanks, Christopher. What's your first recollection of "rap"?

 

  Bethany

 

 I'm not absolutely sure, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that The

Last Poets first referred to what they were doing as "rapping." I think Gil

Scott Heron referred to himself in that way too. Thus the first "street rap-

pers" in Harlem in the late 70's would have had a previous precedent to re-

fer to themselves as such. Hope this serves as a starting point.



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 2 Jun 1995 13:06:58 -0400

From:  TERRY IRONS  t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MSUACAD.MOREHEAD-ST.EDU 

Subject: Re: variants: markers, indexes, stereotypes?



On Fri, 2 Jun 1995, Timothy C. Frazer wrote:



  Somewhere, Labov classes variants in the following ways, tho my memory is

  imperfect:

  1. Those that are not perceived by the community but are detectable as

  variants by objective oberservation.

  2. Those that people respond to on something like a subjective reaction

  test but can't describe (?)

  3. Those that people are overtly aware of, and can, say, imitate.

 

  I seem to recall that there are names for these: markers, indexes,

  stereotypes?

 

  I thought this was in Sociolinguistic Patterns, 1972, but I can't find it.

  CAn anyone help to correct my imperfect memory and also tell me where to

  find it? I need this today! I'll come back online this afternoon.

 



Labov uses the terms indicators, markers, and stereotypes in his article

"The Study of Language in its Social Context," Studium Generale 23

(1970): 30-87. The article is reprinted in Giglioli (ed.) Language and

Social Context. They seem to correlate roughly with what you describe.

Wolfram discusses the terms in his Dialects and American English, pp.

99-100.



Terry



(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)

Terry Lynn Irons    t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]msuacad.morehead-st.edu

Voice Mail:       (606) 783-5164

Snail Mail:       UPO 604 Morehead, KY 40351

(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 2 Jun 1995 15:44:40 -0500

From:  Cynthia Bernstein  bernscy[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAIL.AUBURN.EDU 

Subject: Re: variants: markers, indexes, stereotypes?



Tim,



You'll find what you want on pp. 237 ff. in _Sociolinguistic Patterns_.

Cindy Bernstein



On Fri, 2 Jun 1995, Timothy C. Frazer wrote:



  Somewhere, Labov classes variants in the following ways, tho my memory is

  imperfect:

  1. Those that are not perceived by the community but are detectable as

  variants by objective oberservation.

  2. Those that people respond to on something like a subjective reaction

  test but can't describe (?)

  3. Those that people are overtly aware of, and can, say, imitate.

 

  I seem to recall that there are names for these: markers, indexes,

  stereotypes?

 

  I thought this was in Sociolinguistic Patterns, 1972, but I can't find it.

  CAn anyone help to correct my imperfect memory and also tell me where to

  find it? I need this today! I'll come back online this afternoon.

 

  Tim Frazer

 



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 2 Jun 1995 21:50:56 -0400

From:  James C Stalker  stalker[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PILOT.MSU.EDU 

Subject: Re: Query about terms



If you are interested in possible historical sources, try Grose or the later

Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue. Rap is defined, in one sense, as "to exchange

or barter" and as "to take a false oath, also to curse." If you are interested

in more recent sources, I do recall "rap" as being a courtship repartee, but I

don't know the source. I would have to redo some research.



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 1 Jun 1995 to 2 Jun 1995

**********************************************





There are 2 messages totalling 27 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Russ hour

 2. rap



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 3 Jun 1995 23:24:44 -0700

From:  Anton Sherwood  dasher[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NETCOM.COM 

Subject: Russ hour



Bob Wachal asks:

  Why is it called 'rush hour' when it is so slow?



It's "Russian hour" -- an hour during which traffic advances as rapidly

as the queue at a Russian butcher shop.



------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 3 Jun 1995 23:23:17 -0700

From:  Anton Sherwood  dasher[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NETCOM.COM 

Subject: rap



{  . . . . To "rap" was to talk openly and honestly about one's feelings,

  and it probably involved hugging. . . .



Hugging is not a defining element of the procedure.



I was given to understand that it's short for "rapport".



*\\* Anton                       Ubi scriptum?



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 2 Jun 1995 to 4 Jun 1995

**********************************************





There are 3 messages totalling 64 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. rap

 2. same old six and seven (2)



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 5 Jun 1995 09:35:16 -0500

From:  BARBARA HILL HUDSON  BHHUDSON[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GROVE.IUP.EDU 

Subject: Re: rap



Re: rap



In the African American community in the fifties rap was defined as a way of

talking. H. "Rap" Brown in telling how he got his nickname explained that it

was became he could really "talk." My early understanding of the word was that

it very skillful way of talking which utilized all kinds of word play,

indirection, humor and intelligence. Later, I heard the term used to refer to

a particular philosophy (he's got a strong rap) or to person's ability to

persuade (as in courtship behavior). In the sixties and seventies I began to

hear the word used to mean simply talking (we rapped for an hour). I think

people like the Last Poets and Gil Scott Herron held on to an earlier meaning

of "Man of Words" or philosopher who gets his/her point across by means of

verbal gymnastics.



PS. I forgot to say that in the mid sixties and early seventies, many of my

hippie and/or feminist friends used the term rap session to mean something

closer to consciousness raising sessions.



Barbara Hill Hudson



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 5 Jun 1995 11:58:33 -0400

From:  Gregory Roberts  robertsg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GUSUN.ACC.GEORGETOWN.EDU 

Subject: same old six and seven



Does anyone out there have any clue as to where the phrase "Same old six

and seven" comes from. My grandmother uses it all the time to mean

"nothing new has happened". She said that her mother used the term, so

it is at least as old as the turn of the century. The only other

information that I can give is that she is from central Missouri.

    As a point of contrast, my wife's grandmother uses "Same old same

old" in much the same way. She is from rural central Illinois.



Thanks for any help,

Greg Roberts



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 5 Jun 1995 15:47:54 -0500

From:  Shana Walton  swalton[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]WHALE.ST.USM.EDU 

Subject: Re: same old six and seven



I thought "same old six and seven" referred to daily working hours (6a.m.

to 7 p.m.) I've also heard "seven and seven." Another version of an

answer to the question "so how's it going" is "well, it's just can't see

to can't see," which I assumed referred to working from dawn to dark

without meaning anything extraordinary about this, but rather that it's

the same old thing. "Same old same old" is just reinforcement of the

boredom concept by reduplication, isn't it?



 --

Shana Walton

Mississippi Oral History Program

University of Southern Mississippi

swalton[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]whale.st.usm.edu

(601) 266-5606



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 4 Jun 1995 to 5 Jun 1995

**********************************************





There are 9 messages totalling 312 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. a while/awhile ?? (3)

 2.  No subject given 

 3. Yankee? (3)

 4. Dopp kit (fwd)

 5. ? Lupfer (railroad term.) (fwd)



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 6 Jun 1995 08:27:00 EST

From:  Electronic Products Magazine  0004276021[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MCIMAIL.COM 

Subject: a while/awhile ??



   Will someone please explain the usage of "a while" and "awhile"?



   Examples:



   A WHILE



   "For a while, the hope of achieving such a standard rested on the

   shoulders of WorldFIP and ISPF. "



   "Lastly, I'd like to go on record as advocating banishing from the

   English language, at least for a while, the word 'paradigm.'"



   AWHILE



   "They are often looking for test systems that will be around for quite

   awhile."









   Leonard Schiefer            lschiefer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mcimail.com

   Chief Copy Editor

   Electronic Products Magazine

   Garden City, NY































































MDNM/DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 6 Jun 1995 10:36:10 -0400

From:  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM

Subject: Re: a while/awhile ??



The best explanation, as usual, is to be found in the Merriam-Webster

_Webster's Dictionary of English Usage_.

 The reason this puzzles editors is that the forms are used interchangeably,

despite the prescription that adverbially it should be one word, as a noun

phrase two words. _WDEU_ gives the full story.

 - Allan Metcalf



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 6 Jun 1995 10:37:30 EDT

From:  Larry Horn  LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU 

Subject:  No subject given 



In addition to Allan Metcalf's observation, which is what I would have said (at

least the part about 'a while' being a noun phrase and 'awhile' being an

adverb), it's worth mentioning that the original examples--



   Examples:



   A WHILE



   "For a while, the hope of achieving such a standard rested on the

   shoulders of WorldFIP and ISPF. "



   "Lastly, I'd like to go on record as advocating banishing from the

   English language, at least for a while, the word 'paradigm.'"



   AWHILE



   "They are often looking for test systems that will be around for quite

   awhile."



--actually both involve NPs, and would be (prescriptively) instances of 'a

while'. On the other hand, we'd have the adverbial use in e.g.



   "They are looking for test systems that will be around awhile."

   "They decided to rest awhile."





--Larry





















































MDNM/DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

DDDDD



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 6 Jun 1995 11:09:22 -0500

From:  Gerald Walton  vcgw[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SUNSET.BACKBONE.OLEMISS.EDU 

Subject: Re: a while/awhile ??



    "For a while, the hope of achieving such a standard rested on the

    shoulders of WorldFIP and ISPF. "



My memory of some "rule" from the past is that the two separate words are

used when the "while" is clearly the object of the preposition--"I read my

e-mail for a while last night." And "awhile" is used when it is clear that

it is just an adverbial modifier--"I read e-mail awhile last night."



GWW



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 6 Jun 1995 15:52:27 GMT

From:  Barnhart  Lexik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HIGHLANDS.COM 

Subject: Yankee?



Last weekend my wife found the following boilerplate in a newspaper:



 If you live outside the United States, a Yankee

 is someone who comes from the United States.



 If you live in the United States, a Yankee

 is someone who lives north of the Mason-Dixon line.



 If you live north of the Mason-Dixon line a Yankee

 is someone who comes from New England.



 If you live in New England, a Yankee

 is someone who comes from Vermont.



 If you live in Vermont, a Yankee

 is someone who eats apple pie for breakfast.



The first three usages are well established in the dictionary record (See:

World Book Dictionary, American College Dictionary, and Merriam-Webster's

10th Collegiate for instance). However, I am looking for corroberation of

using Yankee to refer to a Vermonter or a Vermonter who eats apple pie for

breakfast. I have checked Dict. of Americanisms and Dict. of American

English without finding support. Similarly unsupportive are unabridged

Random House and Merriam-Webster, OED and OEDS (both versions). Does anyone

on ADS-L know of these usages?



Thanks for your help.

Barnhart[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]Highlands.Com



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 6 Jun 1995 13:54:24 EDT

From:  Larry Horn  LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU 

Subject: Yankee?



My intuition on this (one I in fact committed to print in a couple of papers I

wrote a while [*awhile] ago) is that while the first three represent truly

distinct concentric senses of 'Yankee', once we narrow it beyond 'New

Englander', we're dealing  with prototype semantics. A "true" Yankee may be

one from Vermont or New Hampshire rather than Connecticut, but it's not really

possible to come up with a strict set of necessary and jointly sufficient con-

ditions for Yankeehood. I suggest in the aforementioned papers (NELS 14 and

BLS 10, both 1984) that a Maine lobsterman or a Vermont farmer--especially one

with the accent in those Pepperidge Farm commercials [and now there's a new

batch for Poland Spring]--may qualify as a true Yankee more than a Greenwich

stockbroker. But there's more to it; a Yankee may have to be of WASP heritage

(excluding Irish or Italian Catholics--was JFK a Yankee?--along with Jews,

blacks, Hispanics, Asians, or other "ethnics"), or s/he may have to be an nth

generation local (but not a true Native American).  I doubt you'll find

official lexicons in which the restriction is to "Vermonter", much less to

"Vermonter who eats apple pie for breakfast". Rather, these categories serve

as putative diagnostics for measuring distance from the prototype (or stereo-

type). If you're a Jewish Yoruba/Korean dreadlocked rap singer and fakir,

moving to Vermont and eating apple pie for breakfast won't make you a Yankee.



Larry

----------------------------Original message----------------------------

Last weekend my wife found the following boilerplate in a newspaper:



 If you live outside the United States, a Yankee

 is someone who comes from the United States.



 If you live in the United States, a Yankee

 is someone who lives north of the Mason-Dixon line.



 If you live north of the Mason-Dixon line a Yankee

 is someone who comes from New England.



 If you live in New England, a Yankee

 is someone who comes from Vermont.



 If you live in Vermont, a Yankee

 is someone who eats apple pie for breakfast.



The first three usages are well established in the dictionary record (See:

World Book Dictionary, American College Dictionary, and Merriam-Webster's

10th Collegiate for instance). However, I am looking for corroberation of

using Yankee to refer to a Vermonter or a Vermonter who eats apple pie for

breakfast. I have checked Dict. of Americanisms and Dict. of American

English without finding support. Similarly unsupportive are unabridged

Random House and Merriam-Webster, OED and OEDS (both versions). Does anyone

on ADS-L know of these usages?



Thanks for your help.

Barnhart[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]Highlands.Com



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 6 Jun 1995 16:24:20 -0400

From:  "Christopher R. Coolidge"  ccoolidg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MOOSE.UVM.EDU 

Subject: Re: Yankee?



 I'd have to ask my father-in-law; he's a native vermonter(I'm what native

vermonters call a flatlander, meaning from anywhere else besides Vermont,

presumably including Brattleboro, which might as well be part of Massachu-

setts)and he's been known to eat last night's leftover apple pie for break-

fast. With cheese. How quintessentially Yankee. I've never heard him call

anyone a Yankee, so I guess he's where the buck stops. Also in his family

"hollering for ralph" means Ralph(my father-in-law)comes running.



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 6 Jun 1995 19:42:07 -0500

From:  Daniel S Goodman  dsg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU 

Subject: Dopp kit (fwd)



---------- Forwarded message ----------

Date: Mon, 05 Jun 1995 11:51:20 -0700 (PDT)

From: Jane Salisbury  janesa[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nethost.multnomah.lib.or.us 

To: stumpers  stumpers-list[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CRF.CUIS.EDU 

Subject: Dopp kit





Can anyone provide the origin and verification of the term "Dopp" or "Dop"

kit - as in a man's shaving kit? Patron thinks maybe it is a British

military term. We've checked dictionaries, OED, WWII slang, and a bunch

of other slang dictionaries.

Thanks!



Jane Salisbury         Humanities Reference Librarian

Multnomah County Library    801 SW 10th  Portland OR 97205

(503) 248-5123 x4885      janesa[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nethost.multnomah.lib.or.us



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 6 Jun 1995 20:00:17 -0500

From:  Daniel S Goodman  dsg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU 

Subject: Re: ? Lupfer (railroad term.) (fwd)



---------- Forwarded message ----------

Date: Tue, 06 Jun 1995 16:17:11 +0200

From:z_naess_p[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]kari.uio.no

To: stumpers-list[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CRF.CUIS.EDU

Subject: Re: ? Lupfer (railroad term.)



Can anyone tell me, what is a "lupfer"? In a text concerning the building

of a Canadian railway, the words "lupfer's camp" occur. I've checked

Webster, American Heritage, Mencken, Stuart Berg Flexner, and Mitford

Mathews "Dictionary of Americanisms," but to no avail. Perhaps Dictionary

of Regional American English could have it (anybody have it?). Sincerely,



Petter Naess

U.S. Reference Center

Drammensvn.18

0244 Oslo

phone 47-22448550

fax 47-22440436

internet:

REFCENT.USIS[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GMAIL.GAR.NO

or

Z_NAESS_P[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]KARI.UIO.NO



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 5 Jun 1995 to 6 Jun 1995

**********************************************





There are 10 messages totalling 259 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Looking for address of Prof. Hartmann in UK

 2. "over there" -- where? (6)

 3. Dopp kit (fwd)

 4. sixes and sevens

 5. Yankee



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 7 Jun 1995 09:30:32 -0500

From:  "Jeffrey H. Allen AXIS CONTRACT"  jhaaxis[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CAT.COM.LOCAL 

Subject: Looking for address of Prof. Hartmann in UK



Would you have an e-mail address, postal address, and/or telephone/fax

numbers for Professor



Hartmann, a lexicologist, at the University of Exeter, UK?





Thank you in advance.





Jeff ALLEN



Translations Dept., AD180



Caterpillar Inc.



East Peoria, Illinois 61630 USA



Tel: (+1) 309-675-0712



Fax: (+1) 309-675-9773



Email: allenjh[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cat.com OR USCATRHL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IBMmail.com





P.S. Please do not use a reply function of your software to reply to

this message as it will be sent to jhaaxis[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cat.com which is

my internal address and not the external Internet address. Please

reply to one of the addresses listed above.



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 7 Jun 1995 10:46:49 -0500

From:  "Timothy C. Frazer"  mftcf[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UXA.ECN.BGU.EDU 

Subject: Re: "over there" -- where?



Dear Reader:



Please respond to this usage query:



"It's better over there."



Please indicate which of the following may be referents for "over there."



a. Mexico

b. Latin America

c. Europe

d. Asia, or any part of Asia

e. Canada



Please indicate which is your "mother dialect" of spoken ENglish.



Thanks,



Tim Frazer



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 7 Jun 1995 09:10:49 -0700

From:  Allen Maberry  maberry[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]U.WASHINGTON.EDU 

Subject: Re: Dopp kit (fwd)



As a faithful patron of the Multnomah County Library for at least the

first 23 years of my life, I guess I'll take a stab at this one.

Although I coudn't find an example of the phrase itself, it may, if it is

indeed a British military term, have its origins in Hindi because of the

British military's long involvement in India.

The phrase MAY be a slang from the Hindi "dhob" meaning "washing" so the

term might be "wash kit"--

See OED under "dhobi" from Hindi dho[macron]bi[macron] from dhob  

"washing", cf. Sanskrit dha[macron]v-

The places to search might be in sources for Anglo-British jargon.

I must emphasize that this is merely a GUESS!



Allen Maberry

maberry[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]u.washington.edu

On Tue, 6 Jun 1995, Daniel S Goodman wrote:



  ---------- Forwarded message ----------

  Date: Mon, 05 Jun 1995 11:51:20 -0700 (PDT)

  From: Jane Salisbury  janesa[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nethost.multnomah.lib.or.us 

  To: stumpers  stumpers-list[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CRF.CUIS.EDU 

  Subject: Dopp kit

 

 

  Can anyone provide the origin and verification of the term "Dopp" or "Dop"

  kit - as in a man's shaving kit? Patron thinks maybe it is a British

  military term. We've checked dictionaries, OED, WWII slang, and a bunch

  of other slang dictionaries.

  Thanks!

 

  Jane Salisbury         Humanities Reference Librarian

  Multnomah County Library    801 SW 10th  Portland OR 97205

  (503) 248-5123 x4885      janesa[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nethost.multnomah.lib.or.us

 



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 7 Jun 1995 10:45:03 -0700

From:  THOMAS CLARK  tlc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NEVADA.EDU 

Subject: Re: "over there" -- where?



Tim, I could respond positively to ALL these (except b. Latin America)

but for differing reasons.

  I grew up with the "mother" dialect of pure English (mainly Northern)

of Montana, so close to the border that Canada is "over there." I Now

live in the Southwest, so Mexico is "over there." I am a Westerner, so

both Asia and Europe are "over there." I don't know what YOU mean by

"Latin America." Every third person around here includes or excludes

Cuba, Dominican Republic, Belize, etc.

 So, "over there" is "not here."

Cheers,

tlc

On Wed, 7 Jun 1995, Timothy C. Frazer wrote:



  Dear Reader:

 

  Please respond to this usage query:

 

  "It's better over there."

 

  Please indicate which of the following may be referents for "over there."

 

  a. Mexico

  b. Latin America

  c. Europe

  d. Asia, or any part of Asia

  e. Canada

 

  Please indicate which is your "mother dialect" of spoken ENglish.

 

  Thanks,

 

  Tim Frazer

 



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 7 Jun 1995 13:11:00 -0500

From:  "Bethany Dumas, UTK"  DUMASB[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Re: "over there" -- where?



Tim, I need a context.



Bethany



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 7 Jun 1995 14:18:14 CDT

From:  Randy Roberts  robertsr[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]EXT.MISSOURI.EDU 

Subject: sixes and sevens



   There is a definition//etymology for the phrase "at sixes and sevens",

   meaning disorder and confusion, in William and Mary Morris, Morris

   Dictionary of Word and Phrase Origins (New York: Harper and Row, 1977)

   p. 30. The origin is supposed to come from a dice game and is

   recorded in Canterbury Tales.



   Randy Roberts

   University of Missouri-Columbia

   robertsr[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ext.missouri.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 7 Jun 1995 15:16:39 CDT

From:  Randy Roberts  robertsr[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]EXT.MISSOURI.EDU 

Subject: Yankee



   David, etal.

    I found a few interesting items on Yankee in the Scott-Foresman

   Company citation files we hold. [For those who don't know, this

   collection contains ca. 350 linear feet of citations collected for

   Thorndike-Barnhart, World Book, etc. dictionaries. Includes citations

   collected by Clarence Barnhart and others.]

    First is a variant on your note. A letter to the Wall Street

   Journal (1/7/1977) page 6 reads: "The word Yankee itself is

   ambiguous--depending on one's point of view. To people in other parts

   of the world it simply means someone from the United States; to people

   in the United States it means someone from north of the Mason-Dixon

   line; to us northerners it means someone from New England; to New

   Englanders it means someone from Vermont; to Vermonters it means

   someone from the Green Mountains; to Green Mountain Vermonters it

   means someone who eats apple pie for breakfast; to Green Mountain

   Vermonters who eat apple pie for breakfast it means someone who eats

   it with his knife."

    2. Newsweek (7/31/1978), p. 65. ". . . Perkins was at bottom a

   Vermont Yankee who inherited the conscience and some of the

   eccentricities of his New England forebears."

    3. [The source is simply the acronym NY; maybe New Yorker]

   (4/28/1956), page 43. "Basically, Yankees meant countrypeople who

   were of English settler stock. . . . Their habitat was in particular

   New Hampshire and Vermont, although they were scattered over the rest

   of New England. Their pronunciation of the English language has a

   peculiar salty flavor. . . "

    4. I am curious if you have taken a look at B. A. Botkin, ed., A

   Treasury of New England Folklore: Stories, Ballads, and Traditions of

   the Yankee People (New York: Crown, 1947. I know it contains

   Mencken's etymology of Yankee and wonder if it might give other

   insights.



   Randy Roberts

   Western Historical Manuscript Collection

   University of Missouri-Columbia

   robertsr[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ext.missouri.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 7 Jun 1995 14:23:53 +0100

From:  debaron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UIUC.EDU

Subject: Re: "over there" -- where?



Bethany--



What a great line! Don't we all need contexts?



 Tim, I need a context.

 

 Bethany



Dennis Baron                      debaron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uiuc.edu



Department of English             office: 217-333-2392

University of Illinois                fax: 217-333-4321

608 South Wright Street            home: 217-384-1683

Urbana, Illinois 61801



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 7 Jun 1995 21:44:01 -0400

From:  Virginia Clark  vpclark[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MOOSE.UVM.EDU 

Subject: Re: "over there" -- where?



    If I think about this any more, I'll never be sure. My first

reaction is that I would use "over there" only for Europe and Asia (any

part). Mexico and Latin America for me are "down there" and Canada is "up

there." But cities or towns here in Vermont can be "over there."



    I started with coastal New England (well, Boston); it's been inland

northern since then. But when I'm in London, people think I'm from Canada;

and only yesterday someone asked me if I was Irish.



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 7 Jun 1995 21:49:48 -0400

From:  James C Stalker  stalker[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PILOT.MSU.EDU 

Subject: Re: "over there" -- where?



My choice would be Europe, influenced I believe by the WWI usage. Mother

dialect: Louisville, KY, 1940 ff.



Jim Stalker

Mich. St. U.

stalker[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]pilot.msu.edu



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 6 Jun 1995 to 7 Jun 1995

**********************************************





There are 9 messages totalling 230 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. "over there" -- where? (4)

 2. "over there" -- where? (fwd)

 3. over there--why? (2)

 4. NEH On the Net

 5. over where?



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 8 Jun 1995 05:43:07 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: "over there" -- where?



      If I think about this any more, I'll never be sure. My first

  reaction is that I would use "over there" only for Europe and Asia (any

  part). Mexico and Latin America for me are "down there" and Canada is "up

  there." But cities or towns here in Vermont can be "over there."



My usage is very much like yours. Of the choices on Tim's list, I would

use "over" with Europe and Asia only. On first glance, that seems to

suggest that "over" requires an ocean. However, I might also go "over

to Tuscaloosa." The greater the distance within this country, the less

likely I would be to use "over." I might go "over to Atlanta," although

that seems to suggest that I consider a five-six-hour drive a pretty casual

event. Interestingly, I don't think I'd use "over" with any town west of

here, although I *might* use it for a town just one state away -- e.g.,

I *might* go "over to Shreveport." I would definitely not go "over to

Dallas." If I felt compelled to throw in another word (rather than just

going "to Dallas," it would be "out to Dallas"). I would never use "over"

to go up or down the map -- unless an ocean with a large east-west segment

is also involved.



I find "out" interesting in this context also. I've noticed that a friend

of mine in New England says sometimes that her son in Seattle is coming

"out to Rhode Island." That strikes me as backwards. To me, somebody in

New England can go "out to Seattle" (or anywhere in the west), but somebody

in the west cannot go "out to" somewhere in the east. My New England "out

to Rhode Island" friend is originally from California, btw.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 8 Jun 1995 06:49:44 -0500

From:  jeffrey howard allen  jhallen[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]INDIANA.EDU 

Subject: Re: "over there" -- where? (fwd)



Thought the rest of the group would like to see my response as I see that

subsequent replies have been sent directly to the list.



JEFF

 ---------- Forwarded message ----------

Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 11:29:34 -0500 (EST)

From: jeffrey howard allen  jhallen[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]indiana.edu 

To: mftcf[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uxa.ecn.bgu.edu

Subject: Re: "over there" -- where? (fwd)





Tim,



I think there is a spatial aspect to deal with in this inquiry, depending

on where one lives.



No for Mexico 1 because I would say "down there (in Mexico)"



No for Latin America 2 because I would also say "down there (in L.A)"



Yes for Europe 3



Yes for Asia 4



No for Canada as I would say "up there (in Canada)"





If I were living in France again, my answers would probably change due to

geographical orientations of where I live with respect to where the

country or region in question is located.



Minneapolis, MN (ages 2-8)



Portland, OR  (ages 8-23)





Best,



Jeff ALLEN

---------- Forwarded message ----------

Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 10:46:49 -0500

From: Timothy C. Frazer  mftcf[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UXA.ECN.BGU.EDU 

To: Multiple recipients of list ADS-L  ADS-L[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UGA.BITNET 

Subject: Re: "over there" -- where?



Dear Reader:



Please respond to this usage query:



"It's better over there."



Please indicate which of the following may be referents for "over there."



a. Mexico

b. Latin America

c. Europe

d. Asia, or any part of Asia

e. Canada



Please indicate which is your "mother dialect" of spoken ENglish.



Thanks,



Tim Frazer



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 8 Jun 1995 09:30:58 -0500

From:  Alan R Slotkin  ARS7950[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]TNTECH.EDU 

Subject: Re: "over there" -- where?



For me, over there is only Europe. Mother dialect=NYC.





Alan Slotkin



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 8 Jun 1995 10:43:12 -0400

From:  Wayne Glowka  wglowka[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAIL.GAC.PEACHNET.EDU 

Subject: Re: "over there" -- where?



Although my San Antonio Northside within the Loop dialect uses "over there"

only for Europe, I vaguely remember hearing Hispanics in San Antonio use

"over there" with reference to Mexico.  I have a dim memory of a

conversation with a male in the late sixties who had spent some time in

Mexico and did not much care for customs that were different "over there."

I think that he had experienced some dating problems that may have involved

difficulties with a prospective female in-law. I try not to remember my

fry-cook days too clearly.





Wayne Glowka

Professor of English

Director of Research and Graduate Student Services

Georgia College

Milledgeville, GA 31061

912-453-4222

wglowka[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mail.gac.peachnet.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 8 Jun 1995 13:15:04 CDT

From:  Barbara Need  barbara[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SAPIR.UCHICAGO.EDU 

Subject: Re: "over there" -- where?



Europe--and in the context of the World Wars (there is

a song of that title and that is the only thing that

comes to mind). Mother dialect? Ohio/Massachusetts I guess.



Barbara Need

University of Chicago--Linguistics



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 8 Jun 1995 13:18:54 -0500

From:  "Timothy C. Frazer"  mftcf[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UXA.ECN.BGU.EDU 

Subject: Re: over there--why?



I asked for this information because Chicano English speakers in

Sterling, Illinois routinely refer to Mexico as "over there." I didn't

think any non-hispanics had this usage, but I wanted to be sure.

11 people more or less agreed that "over there" would mean only Europe,

mainly Asia. Tom Clark confirmed what I suspected, that "over there" for

Mexico is a SW usage. Funny thing is, none of my informants have TxMex

ancestry; all are children of Mexican immigrants, presumably learned

ENglish in Illinois.



Tim Frazer



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 8 Jun 1995 11:54:27 -0800

From:  Scott Schwenter  schwen[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CSLI.STANFORD.EDU 

Subject: Re: over there--why?



 I asked for this information because Chicano English speakers in

 Sterling, Illinois routinely refer to Mexico as "over there." I didn't

 think any non-hispanics had this usage, but I wanted to be sure.

 11 people more or less agreed that "over there" would mean only Europe,

 mainly Asia. Tom Clark confirmed what I suspected, that "over there" for

 Mexico is a SW usage. Funny thing is, none of my informants have TxMex

 ancestry; all are children of Mexican immigrants, presumably learned

 ENglish in Illinois.



As an undergrad, I worked summers as an interpreter at a health clinic in

Michigan for migrant workers, most of whom came from the Rio Grande Valley

area of Texas. Although it was often difficult to tell if their use of

"over there" referred to Texas or Mexico (they often gave addresses in

Brownsville, but actually lived in Mexico), other times it was clear,

especially when comparing the health services in MI with the ones "over

there", meaning the migrant clinics in the Rio Grande Valley. Some of these

workers were born in Mexico, others in the US. Before I heard this,

however, I had no sense of "over there" was (I grew up in MI).



Scott Schwenter



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 8 Jun 1995 16:21:10 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: NEH On the Net



     The National Endowment for the Humanities has a new email

     address for general information inquiries:



     INFO[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NEH.FED.US



     The National Endowment for the Humanities has a new www

     homepage site:



     HTTP://WWW.NEH.FED.US



     Guidelines, applications, and deadline information can be

     retrieved from the homepage.



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 8 Jun 1995 19:43:02 GMT

From:  Barnhart  Lexik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HIGHLANDS.COM 

Subject: over where?



My father was born in Missouri and brought up in Kansas; my mother was born

and brought up in Grant County, Wisconsin. I was born in Chicago, lived in

Chicago suburbs until the age of 4. Most of my upbringing was in New York

City suburbs.



Over there=Europe.



Barnhart[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]Highlands.com



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 7 Jun 1995 to 8 Jun 1995

**********************************************





There are 3 messages totalling 64 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. meddle (2)

 2. Re[2]: meddle



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 9 Jun 1995 11:29:53 CST

From:  Joan Hall  jdhall[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU 

Subject: Re: meddle



Is anyone familiar with the use of the verb "meddle" meaning 'to make sexual

advances'? If so, could you please give me an illustrative sentence as well

as details of when, where, and by whom you've heard it used?

Thanks.



Joan Hall, DARE



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 9 Jun 1995 23:21:47 GMT

From:  "J. Pennelope Goforth"  Pennelope_Goforth%Labor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]STATE.AK.US 

Subject: Re[2]: meddle



   SIGN-OFF ADS-L





______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________

Subject: Re: meddle

Author: ADS-L[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu (American Dialect Society) at CC2MHS1

Date:  6/9/95 11:29 AM





Is anyone familiar with the use of the verb "meddle" meaning 'to make sexual

advances'? If so, could you please give me an illustrative sentence as well

as details of when, where, and by whom you've heard it used?

Thanks.



Joan Hall, DARE



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 9 Jun 1995 18:39:53 -0400

From:  "E. Wayles Browne"  ewb2[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CORNELL.EDU 

Subject: Re: meddle



 Is anyone familiar with the use of the verb "meddle" meaning 'to make sexual

 advances'? If so, could you please give me an illustrative sentence as well

 as details of when, where, and by whom you've heard it used?

 Thanks.

 

 Joan Hall, DARE

I know it only from hearing a 'dirty' song recorded by Oscar Brand,

'Roll the Leg Over'.



"I wish all the world was like Hansel and Gretel.

If I was Hansel, I'd meddle with Gretel."



I thought at the time it was a creative use of meddle 'interfere', rather

than an established usage.



Wayles Browne, Assoc. Prof. of Linguistics

Dept. of Modern Languages and Linguistics, Morrill Hall

Cornell University

Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A.

tel. 607-255-0712 (o), 607-273-3009 (h)

e-mail ewb2[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cornell.edu (1989 to 1993 was: jn5j[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cornella.bitnet //

jn5j[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cornella.cit.cornell.edu)



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 8 Jun 1995 to 9 Jun 1995

**********************************************





There are 4 messages totalling 58 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. over where?

 2. envelope of variation

 3. meddle (2)



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 11 Jun 1995 00:15:19 -0700

From:  Anton Sherwood  dasher[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NETCOM.COM 

Subject: over where?



I'll use "over to" any place beyond water or hills, but "over there"

only for the Old World, and never without context.



My dialect: educated white Midwestern



*\\* Anton                       Ubi scriptum?



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 11 Jun 1995 16:00:52 -0400

From:  Margaret Ronkin  ronkinm[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GUSUN.ACC.GEORGETOWN.EDU 

Subject: envelope of variation



Can somebody please direct me to the original and the most complete

references on the envelope of variation?



Many thanks.

Maggie Ronkin



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 11 Jun 1995 17:24:49 -0500

From:  "Bethany Dumas, UTK"  DUMASB[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Re: meddle



Joan, on the NCTE tape on nonstandard dialects ca. 1974 there is a

long stretc (w/transcript in the accompanying book) in which the

young female African-American speaker talks about somebody's being

"meddled." The sentence is something like "And they was meddlin' her. ANd

they was just meddling her." In the context, the sense does not seem to be

directly or explicitly sexual, but it's the sort of sense that could come from

a generlaly sexual use of the word. In the context the situation involves girls "meddling" another girl.



Bethany



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 11 Jun 1995 21:43:54 -0400

From:  James C Stalker  stalker[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PILOT.MSU.EDU 

Subject: Re: meddle



the OED under meddle, sense 5 (in my 1971 edition) has meddle as having sexual

intercourse from 1340. Certainly in the South, messing with someone has the

same semantic range as meddling seems to have. Don't mess with me can mean:

Leave me alone unless you want a fight, and Don't make sexual advances

unless you are serious. You might also consider the possible phonological

relationship of /bIdIs/ and /bIzdIz/, keeping in mind the

voiced/voiceless alternation in /wI_O/ and /wId/, that is voiceless sometimes

voices when going from interdental fricative to stop. On the other hand, the

OED says that the /d/ is intrusive as in thunor/thunder, but in this case

before liquids rather than nasals. Hey, why not!



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 9 Jun 1995 to 11 Jun 1995

***********************************************





There are 5 messages totalling 112 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1.  No subject given 

 2. meddle (2)

 3. ? hangman = Mr. Ellis (fwd) (2)



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 12 Jun 1995 18:07:46 -0400

From:  John Valentine  valentin[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PEGASUS.CC.UCF.EDU 

Subject:  No subject given 



subascribe



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 12 Jun 1995 19:12:55 -0400

From:  Allan Metcalf  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Re: meddle



Bowdlerizing editors removed these lines of Mercutio's from 18th century

editions of Shakespeare because they were considered too obscene:



Now will he [Romeo] sit under a medlar tree

And wish his mistress were that kind of fruit

As maids call medlars when they laugh alone.

O Romeo, that she were, O that she were

An open et cetera, thou a pop'rin pear!   [II.i.34-38]



I don't have Partridge's _Shakespeare's Bawdy_, but it probably treats this.



- Allan Metcalf



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 12 Jun 1995 18:15:31 -0500

From:  Daniel S Goodman  dsg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU 

Subject: ? hangman = Mr. Ellis (fwd)



---------- Forwarded message ----------

Date: Thu 8 Jun 95 11:30:46-CST

From:DARNOLD[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CHARLY.PUBLIB.SASKATOON.SK.CA

To: stumpers-list[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CRF.CUIS.EDU

Subject: ? hangman = Mr. Ellis



We've had the following question referred to us:



"Why do we refer to the hangman as `Mr. Ellis'?"



I don't know the origin of this (Canadian, British, American, or other), and

it doesn't sound familiar to me at all. We've checked a number of

dictionaries (word/phrase origin, slang) and a few books on capital

punishment (most are on loan at the moment), but no luck so far. Any

ideas?



Dawn Arnold

Saskatoon Public Library

darnold[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]charly.publib.saskatoon.sk.ca



(patron needs answer by the end of the day)



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 12 Jun 1995 18:50:34 -0500

From:  Daniel S Goodman  dsg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU 

Subject: Re: ? hangman = Mr. Ellis (fwd)



---------- Forwarded message ----------

Date: Fri 9 Jun 95 09:42:20-CST

From:DARNOLD[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CHARLY.PUBLIB.SASKATOON.SK.CA

To: stumpers-list[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CRF.CUIS.EDU

Subject: Re: ? hangman = Mr. Ellis



Thanks to Jack and Fran for their attempts, and to Janet for suggesting

Arthur Ellis. The book _Hanging in Canada: concise history of a

controversial topic_ (Frontier Books, 1982), by Frank W. Anderson,

briefly reappeared on our shelves (it's out again). We checked a chapter

about Arthur Ellis and discovered that it was the trade name used by

Arthur Bartholomew English, who became Canada's best known hangman. The

name was also used by one of Arthur's successors, and newspaper reporters

of the time (between 1910 and 1935, I believe) had a tendancy to refer to

all hangmen as "Mr. Ellis". So there you go.



Thanks again for your help.



Dawn Arnold

Saskatoon Public Library

darnold[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]charly.publib.saskatoon.sk.ca



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 12 Jun 1995 19:30:57 -0600

From:  Katherine Catmull  kate[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]BGA.COM 

Subject: Re: meddle



At 7:12 PM 6/12/95 -0400, Allan Metcalf wrote:



 I don't have Partridge's _Shakespeare's Bawdy_, but it probably treats this.





He does. And he says



    meddle with: To be intimate with (a woman): allusive in

    _Twelfth Night_ III iv 252 and 283. --'How, sir? do you

    make with my master?--_Coriolanus._ Ay, sir; 'tis an honester

    service than to meddle with thy mistress'. _Coriolanus_ IV v

    43-45

        Via. Old Fr. _medler_, from the Low Latin equivalent

        _miscere_, 'to mix':cf. compound and the

        euphemistic modern mingle, v.i., 'to coit'



Of "medlar" he says that in Shakespeare it means "_either_ pudend or podex

or the pudend-podex area," which makes me laugh for some reason. I like the

scholarly italicized "either." Partridge has more to say on medlar, and I

refer the questioner to it--it's interesting.



Kate



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 11 Jun 1995 to 12 Jun 1995

************************************************





There are 3 messages totalling 43 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. new phrase (3)



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 13 Jun 1995 15:15:01 -0600

From:  POLSKY ELLEN S  Ellen.Polsky[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]COLORADO.EDU 

Subject: new phrase



My niece came up with the next generation's way of saying "It's nothing

to write home about." She went to see the movie "Congo" and said, "It's

not good enough to bother sending e-mail about." (Everyone in my family

has an e-mail address, and we write to each other daily.)



Ellen S. Polsky (Ellen.Polsky[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]Colorado.EDU)



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 13 Jun 1995 20:12:24 -0500

From:  Gerald Walton  vcgw[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SUNSET.BACKBONE.OLEMISS.EDU 

Subject: Re: new phrase



 ... "It's not good enough to bother sending e-mail about."



I am used to using, and seeing, "e-mail." But recently I have been seeing

"Email" a bit. I had wondered why it's hyphenated in "e-mail." And I am not

sure I understand why it'd be "Email" if the meaning is "electronic mail."

Any observations? GWW



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 13 Jun 1995 22:03:21 EDT

From:  Larry Horn  LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU 

Subject: Re: new phrase



One problem, abstruse as it may, with "email" sans hyphen or cap E, is that it

looks too much like the French word for enamel, as in those beautiful Limoges

plates in the Frick (for you New Yorkers) and elsewhere. Anyway, the pattern

would presumably call for a hyphen and/or cap E. After all it's D-Day, not

dday, g-man (perhaps a better fit, since that's a description like e-mail

rather than a name like D-Day), K rations (not krations),...  I think it's

productive, too: I've seen b-day and B-day (for birthday).





Larry



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 12 Jun 1995 to 13 Jun 1995

************************************************





There are 19 messages totalling 468 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. new phrase (5)

 2. Kmart (2)

 3. meddle

 4. B-Day

 5. Meddle in NCTE book

 6. NCTE book

 7. Teen Slang Terms (Gank and Gaffle) (2)

 8. email, e-mail, E mail, etc.

 9. Cutler's book

 10. All the news of the American Dialect Society (2)

 11. Teen Slang Terms (Gank and Gaffl

 12. Dopp kit (fwd)



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 14 Jun 1995 04:37:57 -0400

From:  "M. Lynne Murphy"  104LYN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MUSE.ARTS.WITS.AC.ZA 

Subject: Re: new phrase



  One problem, abstruse as it may, with "email" sans hyphen or cap E, is that it

  looks too much like the French word for enamel, as in those beautiful Limoges

  plates in the Frick (for you New Yorkers) and elsewhere. Anyway, the pattern

  would presumably call for a hyphen and/or cap E. After all it's D-Day, not

  dday, g-man (perhaps a better fit, since that's a description like e-mail

  rather than a name like D-Day), K rations (not krations),...  I think it's

  productive, too: I've seen b-day and B-day (for birthday).



but...i (and those in my great sphere of influence) use bday and cmas

(christmas)--the former is quite wide spread among those who mark the

joyous season of lynneukah (otherwise known as the 8 days of lynne's

bday). (only 110 shopping days left! shop now and avoid the rush.)



these are better than "krations" because, in english, you'd have to

syllabify the "b" before "day" and the "c" before "mas", but the

"kr-" works as an initial cluster. (the k rations e.g., is kind of

cheating, though because it's not hyphenated in the first place.)



similarly, email will work because you can pronounce it as spelt.

i'm trying to think of other things that might start with hyphen-

separated vowels in order to test this but cannot. aline (a-line)

skirt would not work, but the spelling indicates that the "a" should

be short, so that might explain that. we'd need other cases where

the spelling rules don't conflict with the dehyphenization.



best,

lynne

---------------------------------------------------------------------

M. Lynne Murphy              104lyn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]muse.arts.wits.ac.za

Department of Linguistics            phone: 27(11)716-2340

University of the Witwatersrand          fax: 27(11)716-8030

Johannesburg 2050

SOUTH AFRICA



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 14 Jun 1995 08:43:31 EDT

From:  Larry Horn  LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU 

Subject: Re: new phrase



Well, in response to Lynne's query about misreadable non-hyphenated names and

descriptions: I'm not sure whether the constraint she mentions--



 but...i (and those in my great sphere of influence) use bday and cmas

 (christmas)--the former is quite wide spread among those who mark the

 joyous season of lynneukah (otherwise known as the 8 days of lynne's

 bday). (only 110 shopping days left! shop now and avoid the rush.)

 

 these are better than "krations" because, in english, you'd have to

 syllabify the "b" before "day" and the "c" before "mas", but the

 "kr-" works as an initial cluster. (the k rations e.g., is kind of

 cheating, though because it's not hyphenated in the first place.)



is operative for me, although it clearly is for others with their own

significant spheres of influence. Some time ago I realized that the chain of

stores I've always thought of as K Mart (space, no hyphen) is officially, at

least in these parts, rendered with capital K but no space: "Check out your

neighborhood Kmart store for bargains during this special Lynneukah shopping

season!"  For me, this is a severe violation, since I can only pronounce

their store [kmart], with at most a schwa to epenthesize mid-initial-cluster

(as in "c'mon" or the down-underian "G'day!"). No wonder they're heading for

bankruptcy. B'bye, Kmart!



Larry



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 14 Jun 1995 08:37:40 -0500

From:  Shana Walton  swalton[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]WHALE.ST.USM.EDU 

Subject: Re: new phrase



 

  would presumably call for a hyphen and/or cap E. After all it's D-Day, not

  dday, g-man (perhaps a better fit, since that's a description like e-mail

  rather than a name like D-Day),



Actually, according to _Chicago_, it's D day, not D-Day or D Day (see sec.

7.75) and Webster's Collegiate agrees. AP uses D-Day, however.



personally, I use email. New York Times has deemed it E-mail. go figure.



K rations (not krations),...  I think it's

  productive, too: I've seen b-day and B-day (for birthday).





--

Shana Walton

Mississippi Oral History Program

University of Southern Mississippi

swalton[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]whale.st.usm.edu

(601) 266-5606



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 14 Jun 1995 10:31:36 -0400

From:  "M. Lynne Murphy"  104LYN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MUSE.ARTS.WITS.AC.ZA 

Subject: Kmart



in response to larry horn's response:



  Well, in response to Lynne's query about misreadable non-hyphenated names and

  descriptions: I'm not sure whether the constraint she mentions--

 

   but...i (and those in my great sphere of influence) use bday and cmas

   (christmas)--the former is quite wide spread among those who mark the

   joyous season of lynneukah (otherwise known as the 8 days of lynne's

   bday). (only 110 shopping days left! shop now and avoid the rush.)

   

   these are better than "krations" because, in english, you'd have to

   syllabify the "b" before "day" and the "c" before "mas", but the

   "kr-" works as an initial cluster. (the k rations e.g., is kind of

   cheating, though because it's not hyphenated in the first place.)

 

  is operative for me, although it clearly is for others with their own

  significant spheres of influence. Some time ago I realized that the chain of

  stores I've always thought of as K Mart (space, no hyphen) is officially, at

  least in these parts, rendered with capital K but no space: "Check out your

  neighborhood Kmart store for bargains during this special Lynneukah shopping

  season!"  For me, this is a severe violation, since I can only pronounce

  their store [kmart], with at most a schwa to epenthesize mid-initial-cluster

  (as in "c'mon" or the down-underian "G'day!"). No wonder they're heading for

  bankruptcy. B'bye, Kmart!



it seems to mean something that the letter that is pronounced as a

letter is capitalized--we saw that in the original post about Email,

though i do think this is also written as email. (it's hard to tell

w/ people like me who are anti-shift-key. i read that this is the e-

mail equivalent of mumbling.) actually, i have provided evidence of

this elsewhere on e-mail, spelling my name lynnE, in order to be

pronounced "lynnie"--a spelling i don't like because it undermines

the 'e' on the end of the my name (which people tend to leave off, to

my distress). when i write my name by hand, i use a macron instead,

but since that's not possible here, the capital E works.



Kmart, incidentally, also has the metaorthographic aid of color: the

"k" is red, the "mart" blue in their logo.



but this still doesn't explain bday, which, i swear, i'm not the only

person to use.



narcissistically yours,

lynnE



---------------------------------------------------------------------

M. Lynne Murphy              104lyn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]muse.arts.wits.ac.za

Department of Linguistics            phone: 27(11)716-2340

University of the Witwatersrand          fax: 27(11)716-8030

Johannesburg 2050

SOUTH AFRICA



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 14 Jun 1995 10:43:23 -0500

From:  "thomas j. creswell"  creswell[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NIIA.NET 

Subject: meddle



In 1948, when I was teaching 6th grade in an all-black school on Chicago's

South Side, a common complaint I heard, but at first did not understand, was

"Teacher, Henry (or some other name) meddlin' me." Another, heard somewhat

less frequently, was "Teacher, Henry, signifyin' me." I soon learned that

"meddlin'" referred to any physical activity--hitting, pinching,

hair-pulling, or the like; and "signifyin'" referred to verbal

attack--name-calling, teasing, etc.



Note that in both cases these were transitive verbs.



Perhaps I was naive, but, as far as I remember, "meddling" did not at any

time have any sexual connotation.

Tom Creswell



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 14 Jun 1995 11:01:12 +0100

From:  debaron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UIUC.EDU

Subject: Re: new phrase



One of the initial presuppositions of email is that it represents a freedom

from conventional communication constraints, eg no salutation or

capitalization or even much in the way of punctuation. I don't think we

need to worry about French enamel, either. But I do notice that with the

advent of more sophisticated mail programs like Eudora, which give us the

option of writing that is more like word-processor writing, people are

starting to bring in the old constraints, worrying about appropriateness,

spelling, fancy sig.files, and so on. So my question is this, was the

freedom and anarchy of early net communication partly a function of the

limited word processing technology, and is that starting to recede? Woe the

day when mail programs get spell checking utilities!



Dennis

--



Dennis Baron                      debaron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uiuc.edu



Department of English             office: 217-333-2392

University of Illinois                fax: 217-333-4321

608 South Wright Street            home: 217-384-1683

Urbana, Illinois 61801



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 14 Jun 1995 12:10:40 EDT

From:  David Bergdahl  bergdahl[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU 

Subject: B-Day



          Ohio University Electronic Communication





  Date: 14-Jun-1995 12:09pm EST



   To: Remote Addressee           ( _MX%"ADS-L[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UGA.CC.UGA.EDU )



  From: David Bergdahl               Dept: English

     BERGDAHL                 Tel No: (614) 593-2783



Subject: B-Day





I prefer BIDET myself [for the abbrev. of b'day]        db







Received: 14-Jun-1995 12:10pm



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 14 Jun 1995 12:24:35 -0500

From:  "Bethany Dumas, UTK"  DUMASB[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.BITNET 

Subject: Meddle in NCTE book



The "meddle" passage is from the transcription of Emily Pettigrew Morris,

 a 14-year-old from Memphis:



"You know she just be walkin. And she made up funny. And ney was meddlin

her. And her sister wear glasses. And ney were meddlin her too." [I made no

attempt to preserve italics for omitted Cs.]



Bethany Dumas

dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utkvx.utk.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 14 Jun 1995 12:26:23 -0500

From:  "Bethany Dumas, UTK"  DUMASB[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.BITNET 

Subject: NCTE book



The NCTE book is _Culture, Class, and Language Variety_, ed. A. L. Davis

(NCTE 1972) (and there is an accompanying tape).



Bethany Dumas

dumasb[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]utkvx.utk.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 14 Jun 1995 08:55:04 -0800

From:  Michael Elkins  MELKINS[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ADVOCATE.COM 

Subject: Re: new phrase



Usage of "email" as opposed to "E-mail" or "e-mail" evolves from the

idea that the Internet is a place for sending transmissions as quickly

as possible. Hardcore Net users do not worry about capitalization,

typos, etc., as long as their ideas get across.



I've seen "e-mail" and "E-mail" used almost equally in print. I prefer

the Webster's Tenth choice of "E-mail." The cap is consistent with the

majority of words formed this way.



I've never found any real consistency, though, in the formation of this

type of word. For example, according to Webster's, there's U-turn,

A-frame, and T-shirt, but then you find V neck, T square, and I beam.

Each gets its name from the letter whose shape is envisioned in the

object, so why such inconsistency? Others include: C ration, K ration,

D day, U-boat, H-bomb, and A-bomb.



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 14 Jun 1995 09:42:27 -0800

From:  Michael Elkins  MELKINS[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ADVOCATE.COM 

Subject: Re: Kmart



As a registered trademark, Kmart may not be the most ideal thing to use

as an example in your context. Surely, at some point a board of at least

a dozen people sat around for an hour, trying to decide how best to

present their company name to the public.



Also, the word "Kmart" does have a history. Up until about three years

ago, the registered spelling with the U.S. Trademark Association (now

the International Trademark Association) was "K mart" (space included).

After the company's image makeover ("I love what they've done to

Kmart!"), which included a redesigned logo, the trademark was changed so

that the spelling is now "Kmart."



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 14 Jun 1995 10:26:37 CDT

From:  Randy Roberts  robertsr[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]EXT.MISSOURI.EDU 

Subject: Teen Slang Terms (Gank and Gaffle)



   I picked up two odd terms (odd to me) from junior high students in

   Columbia, Missouri. The first is "to gank" meaning to physically

   assault or intimidate someone in order to steal from them. As in, I

   ganked his bicycle. The only other place I have seen this term is in

   Paul Dickson's 1990 book, Slang! The Topic by Topic Dictionary of

   Contemporary American Lingoes. On page 217 Paul lists gank meaning

   flirt.

    The second word is entirely new to me. It is "to gaffle"

   (spelling?) meaning simply to steal something from someone without

   violence or their awareness. As in, she didn't know it, but I gaffled

   a stick of gum from her purse.

    My sources are only oral. The informants had no clue as to

   etymology but they said both terms were old. But then, old to

   teenagers can mean last week.



   Randy Roberts

   University of Missouri-Columbia

   robertsr[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ext.missouri.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 14 Jun 1995 19:20:11 GMT

From:  Barnhart  Lexik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HIGHLANDS.COM 

Subject: email, e-mail, E mail, etc.



In The Barnhart Dictionary Companion (Vol. 7.4 and 8.1) where these and

related terms are entered there is evidence provided of a wide variety of

spellings, e.g.: e-mail, e mail, Email, EMAIL, E-mail, E-Mail, Email, and

email. On the basis of frequency we chose e-mail as the initial listing.

Dictionaries generally have entered this term as E-mail. "Our records

suggest that by 1984 the preferred form had become e-mail." This applies

both to the noun and verb uses.



Barnhart[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]Highlands.com



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 14 Jun 1995 15:54:41 -0600

From:  POLSKY ELLEN S  Ellen.Polsky[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]COLORADO.EDU 

Subject: Cutler's book



A friend of mine would like a complete citation for Cutler's book on

Native American loans. Does anyone have it? Sorry to bother the whole

list with this!



Ellen S. Polsky (Ellen.Polsky[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]Colorado.EDU)



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 14 Jun 1995 17:44:47 -0600

From:  Katherine Catmull  kate[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]BGA.COM 

Subject: Re: Teen Slang Terms (Gank and Gaffle)



     The second word is entirely new to me. It is "to gaffle"

    (spelling?) meaning simply to steal something from someone without

    violence or their awareness. As in, she didn't know it, but I gaffled

    a stick of gum from her purse.

     My sources are only oral. The informants had no clue as to

    etymology but they said both terms were old. But then, old to

    teenagers can mean last week.





I wonder if "gaffle" bears any relation to "gaff," meaning a trick or a

swindle. "Don't blow the gaff" is a phrase that might be used by theater

people as well as con artists, the gaff being the key part of a trick or

illusion that you want to keep hidden from your audience.



Just a thought



Kate Catmull          kate[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]bga.com



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 14 Jun 1995 18:46:58 -0400

From:  Allan Metcalf  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: All the news of the American Dialect Society



Do you know when abstracts are due

for the Methods meeting in Wales?

Do you know about NWAVE too

and the Dictionary Society details?



Are the ADS Annual Meeting speakers

and sessions all within reach?

Do you know there are "devil's dice" seekers

at DARE, who salvation beseech?



What books, you may ask, have been written

by colleagues in our little legion?

Do you know what topics NCTE will be hittin'?

and our meetings in each separate region?



All this, and much more, can be yours

in the Newsletter of ADS;

to get it, just open your purse

for a $30 annual membership, or ask for a sample copy and it will be sent

absolutely free, no less.



- Allan Metcalf, executive secretary  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com 



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 14 Jun 1995 19:48:33 -0400

From:  "Peter L. Patrick"  PPATRICK[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GUVAX.ACC.GEORGETOWN.EDU 

Subject: Re: All the news of the American Dialect Society



Some of the news, anyway...

    Since Allan reminded us in a general way, I just wanted to

remind folks that the NWAVE abstract submission deadline is tomorrow,

and/but that they are submissible by email-- 1 page or less,

indicating a 20-min. paper or a poster session, to

    NWAVE24[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]babel.ling.upenn.edu

    (I also note that babel, the server, will be down for a while

    tomorrow afternoon, so send before lunch if you plan to!)



    --peter patrick



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 14 Jun 1995 22:19:54 -0400

From:  James C Stalker  stalker[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PILOT.MSU.EDU 

Subject: Re: Teen Slang Terms (Gank and Gaffl



    I picked up two odd terms (odd to me) from junior high students in

    Columbia, Missouri. The first is "to gank" meaning to physically

    assault or intimidate someone in order to steal from them. As in, I

    ganked his bicycle. The only other place I have seen this term is in

    Paul Dickson's 1990 book, Slang! The Topic by Topic Dictionary of

    Contemporary American Lingoes. On page 217 Paul lists gank meaning

    flirt.

      The second word is entirely new to me. It is "to gaffle"

    (spelling?) meaning simply to steal something from someone without

    violence or their awareness. As in, she didn't know it, but I gaffled

    a stick of gum from her purse.

      My sources are only oral. The informants had no clue as to

    etymology but they said both terms were old. But then, old to

    teenagers can mean last week.

 

    Randy Roberts

    University of Missouri-Columbia

    robertsr[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ext.missouri.edu

 



Gank, in the sense "steal," especially in the sense "to scam," "to bilk," has

been active in East Lansing in both high school

and college (Mich State U) since 1992. That is the first reported instance in

my data. Lighter does not list it. Perhaps in junior high, old means that it

has filtered down from above (high school), despite Labovian theory.



As for gaffle, I just checked my 18 year old sources, who are lurking in the

family room playing hockey on the Sega, and they agree that gaffle means mostly

to hit someone, but can also mean to take something from them. I just checked

gank, and for them it means only to take. No violence involved.



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 14 Jun 1995 23:09:28 -0400

From:  Donna Metcalf  Ddonna[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Re: Dopp kit (fwd)



 According to my x-brother-in-law, Morton Doppelt, this was named by the

manufacturer who was his great uncle or great grandfather, and who lived in

New York.

Donna Metcalf



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 13 Jun 1995 to 14 Jun 1995

************************************************





There are 11 messages totalling 255 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Teen Slang Terms (Gank and Gaffle) (3)

 2. AAVE discourse

 3. new phrase

 4. disconnect (3)

 5. Cutler book

 6. Teen Slang Terms (Gank and Gaffle) -Reply

 7. Fwd: Re(2): Yankee?



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 14 Jun 1995 22:17:33 -0700

From:  Mary Bucholtz  bucholtz[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GARNET.BERKELEY.EDU 

Subject: Re: Teen Slang Terms (Gank and Gaffle)



My students (mostly Southern California transplants) have been reporting

"gank" on slang surveys for 4 years. Most of them have no idea where it

comes from but a few have suggested, rightly, I think, that it derives

from "gangster/a" (those aren't gender markings, just dialect variation).



Mary Bucholtz



Department of Linguistics

University of California, Berkeley

bucholtz[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]garnet.berkeley.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 14 Jun 1995 22:31:55 -0700

From:  Mary Bucholtz  bucholtz[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GARNET.BERKELEY.EDU 

Subject: AAVE discourse



I have an urgent request for references on AAVE discourse for use in a

criminal trial that begins Monday. A public defender has asked for help in

interpreting the interaction of the police and his client during

interrogation. The features at issue are: (1) the discourse function of

"That's what I'm saying" and (2) the use of understatement in AAVE.

I'd be very grateful for any suggestions; I'll post the results to the

list (and let you know how the case turns out).



Thanks,



Mary Bucholtz



Department of Linguistics

University of California, Berkeley

bucholtz[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]garnet.berkeley.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 15 Jun 1995 00:24:14 -0700

From:  kim mckinzey  rkm[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SLIP.NET 

Subject: Re: new phrase



In my sphere of influence, as it were, we refer to the holiday season as

Chanukmas.



Rima



r mckinzey



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 15 Jun 1995 06:09:07 -0400

From:  "F. Caroline Fischer"  fischer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OMNI.VOICENET.COM 

Subject: disconnect



Caroline Fischer disconnect ADS-List.



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 15 Jun 1995 07:54:33 -0400

From:  Mike Agnes  by971[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU 

Subject: Cutler book



A complete citation for the Cutler book on

Native American loans was requested:



 DATABASE: OCLC WorldCat

|

|ACCESSION: 30358829

|  AUTHOR: Cutler, Charles L.

|  TITLE: O brave new words! :

|      Native American loanwords in current English /

|  PLACE: Norman :

|PUBLISHER: University of Oklahoma Press,

|   YEAR: 1994

| PUB TYPE: Book

|  FORMAT: xvi, 286 p. : ill., 1 map ; 24 cm.

|  NOTES: Includes bibliographical references (p. [257]-274)

      and index.

|   ISBN: 0806126558 (alk. paper)

| SUBJECT: English language -- United States --

       Foreign words and phrases --

|      Indian.

|      Indians of North America -- Languages --

       Influence on English.

|      Indians of North America -- Languages.

|      Languages in contact -- United States.

|      Americanisms.

|      Vocabulary.

|__________________________________________________________



 -- Mike Agnes



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 15 Jun 1995 09:39:57 -0500

From:  Molly Dickmeyer  dickmeye[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JBLSMTP.LIPPINCOTT.COM 

Subject: Teen Slang Terms (Gank and Gaffle) -Reply



Randy:



Where and when I grew up (south central PA 20 yrs ago) "gank"

referred to the voluntary ability to expel saliva from the mouth without

spitting, or the involuntary rush of saliva in the mouth when tasting or

smelling something strong (this is harder to explain than I thought!). Odd, I

know.



Molly



    Randy Roberts  robertsr[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]EXT.MISSOURI.EDU  06/14/95 10:26am

   

   I picked up two odd terms (odd to me) from junior high students in

   Columbia, Missouri. The first is "to gank" meaning to physically

   assault or intimidate someone in order to steal from them. As in, I

   ganked his bicycle. The only other place I have seen this term is in

   Paul Dickson's 1990 book, Slang! The Topic by Topic Dictionary of

   Contemporary American Lingoes. On page 217 Paul lists gank

meaning

   flirt.

    The second word is entirely new to me. It is "to gaffle"

   (spelling?) meaning simply to steal something from someone without

   violence or their awareness. As in, she didn't know it, but I gaffled

   a stick of gum from her purse.

    My sources are only oral. The informants had no clue as to

   etymology but they said both terms were old. But then, old to

   teenagers can mean last week.



   Randy Roberts

   University of Missouri-Columbia

   robertsr[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ext.missouri.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 15 Jun 1995 12:05:57 -0400

From:  Jesse T Sheidlower  jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PANIX.COM 

Subject: Re: Teen Slang Terms (Gank and Gaffle)



      The second word is entirely new to me. It is "to gaffle"

    (spelling?) meaning simply to steal something from someone without

    violence or their awareness. As in, she didn't know it, but I gaffled

    a stick of gum from her purse.

      My sources are only oral. The informants had no clue as to

    etymology but they said both terms were old. But then, old to

    teenagers can mean last week.



In this case it's a bit older...



We have _gaffle_ in the _Random House Historical Dictionary of

American Slang_ from 1900, identified as being "Esp. Maine"

with the sense "to seize; take hold of...(hence) to

steal." Our most recent example is only 1966, so the continued

existence of the term is news to me. We suggest an etymology

of "perh. alteration of S.E. _gaff_ 'to strike (a fish) with

a gaff'" but that is probably a weak hypothesis. (We also have

a slang sense of _gaff_ meaning 'to cheat of victimize' which

doesn't appear to be related.)



We have no evidence for _gank_ other than the sources mentioned

here.



Jesse Sheidlower

Random House Reference

 jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]panix.com 



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 15 Jun 1995 09:45:25 -0700

From:  Thomas Stevens  thomass[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]IX.NETCOM.COM 

Subject: Re: disconnect



Could someone please remove me from this list, or tell me how I can do

it myself? Thanks.



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 15 Jun 1995 15:58:00 GMT

From:  Barnhart  Lexik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HIGHLANDS.COM 

Subject: Fwd: Re(2): Yankee?



The Barnhart Dictionary of Etymology:



"a nickname, as applied in early quotations: _Yankey Duch_ (1683), _Captain

Yankey_ (1684), _John Williams, Yankee_ (1687), all from the same source, and

'one negro man named _Yankee_" (1725), also used by General James Wolfe

(1758) as a term of contempt and found later as a general term for a native

or inhabitant of New England (1765). This record shows a thread of usage

traceable to earliest occurrence through the various opprobrius uses and the

later prideful adoptions by the New England colonists themselves. What the

earliest associations were is undecipherable with present evidence, but the

word almost certainly came from the Dutch, wheter ultimately from the

Flemings is quetionable; certainly a parallel to the pseudoeponym John Bull

is suggested in the explanation by the Dutch linguist Henri Logeman, in

_Studies in English Philology_ (Klaeber volume, Minneapolis, 1929, pp.

403-13), in which he postulates that the name may have been an alteration of

Ducth _Jan Kees_, dialectal variant of _Jan Kaas_, literally, John Cheese, a

nickname for Dutchmen used by Flemings.



"By about 1784 _Yankee_ was extended by British writers and speakers to apply

to Americans in general; then from about 1812, and particularly since the

Civil War, the name has been applied in the South to anyone from the northern

states above the Mason-Dixon line. The informal clipped form _Yank_ is

recorded from 1778.



"Any association with American Indian use, such as _Yankee_, representing

their pronunciation of the word "English," or _Yanke, Yankee, Yankoo_ as a

tribal name is not supported by convincing evidence.



Barnhart[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]Highlands.com



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 15 Jun 1995 14:53:07 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: disconnect



  Could someone please remove me from this list, or tell me how I can do

  it myself? Thanks.



Send the following as the complete body of an e-mail message to listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]

uga.cc.uga.edu:



unsub ADS-L



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 15 Jun 1995 14:58:36 -0500

From:  "Thomas J. Creswell"  creswell[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NIIA.NET 

Subject: Re: Teen Slang Terms (Gank and Gaffle)



Could gaffle be somehow related to or constitute a mispronunciation or

pronunciation of an imperfectly heard "snaffle" defined to purloin or snitch

and labeled  "    The second word is entirely new to me. It is "to gaffle"

     (spelling?) meaning simply to steal something from someone without

     violence or their awareness. As in, she didn't know it, but I gaffled

     a stick of gum from her purse.

      My sources are only oral. The informants had no clue as to

     etymology but they said both terms were old. But then, old to

     teenagers can mean last week.

 

 

 I wonder if "gaffle" bears any relation to "gaff," meaning a trick or a

 swindle. "Don't blow the gaff" is a phrase that might be used by theater

 people as well as con artists, the gaff being the key part of a trick or

 illusion that you want to keep hidden from your audience.

 

 Just a thought

 

 Kate Catmull          kate[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]bga.com

 

 

Tom Creswell



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 14 Jun 1995 to 15 Jun 1995

************************************************





There are 3 messages totalling 57 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Fwd: Re(2): Yankee?

 2. Meddle in NCTE book

 3. Cutler's book



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 16 Jun 1995 10:04:33 -0600

From:  Bruce Gelder  bgelder[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CAMEL.SIM.ES.COM 

Subject: Re: Fwd: Re(2): Yankee?



The Merriam-Webster New Book of Word Histories devotes four pages to the

etymology of "yankee," discussing many theories about its origin that

have been proposed over the years, including the Dutch "Jan Kees" theory

that was quoted here from Barnhart. It states that the "Jan Kees" theory

"has drawn the approval of more philologists...than any other theory [but

that] it is not without its difficulties, however. _Kees_, regardless of

its spelling, must have sounded like _case_ when pronounced in Dutch.

And two-part nicknames in Dutch seem to receive their main stress on the

second part, while _Yankee_ has first-syllable stress." The book asserts

that the origin of the word "is still uncertain."



It's an interesting read, for anyone who's interested.



-Bruce Gelder



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 16 Jun 1995 11:49:10 CST

From:  Joan Hall  jdhall[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU 

Subject: Re: Meddle in NCTE book



Thanks, Bethany and Tom, for the info on "meddle." Our evidence shows that

both the more general transitive sense 'to bother' ("He's meddling me") and

the more specifically sexual sense are used especially by Black people, so

your cites are very useful.

Joan Hall



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 16 Jun 1995 21:15:02 CDT

From:  "Donald M. Lance"  ENGDL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU 

Subject: Re: Cutler's book



O Brave New Words! Native American Loanwords in Current English

by Charles L. Cutler

University of Oklahoma Press, 1994



Twelve chapters -- plus --

Glossary 1. English Loanwords from North American Indian Languages (North

   of Mexico) (63 pp)

Glossary 2. English Loanwords from the Eskimo and Aleut Languages (4 pp)

Appendix. English Loanwords from the Latin American Languages (27 pp)



He also has a graph of frequency of borrowing from 1600 to 1950. Wars and

standoffs seem to have shut off borring completely for a generation or so,

with peaks in borrowing coinciding with historical periods when it served

Euro-American purposes to deal directly with local residents (e.g., right

after "settlement", building the railroad through "Indian lands", etc.)



Good book.     DMLance



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 15 Jun 1995 to 16 Jun 1995

************************************************





There is one message totalling 18 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Yankee



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 18 Jun 1995 17:48:10 -0700

From:  Anton Sherwood  dasher[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NETCOM.COM 

Subject: Yankee



  . . . the Dutch linguist Henri Logeman . . . postulates that the name

  may have been an alteration of Ducth _Jan Kees_, dialectal variant of _Jan

  Kaas_, literally, John Cheese, a nickname for Dutchmen used by Flemings.



Hm. Do Flemings in fact call Hollanders "Jan Kaas"? I've known

a few Dutchmen, including Kees Vrins and Kees van Toorn. (The

former's full name was Cornelis M. P. Vrins.) So it may not be

"Cheese", but a stereotypical name like "Fritz" or "Guido" or

"Ivan".



*\\* Anton                       Ubi scriptum?



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 16 Jun 1995 to 18 Jun 1995

************************************************





There are 3 messages totalling 46 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. The Odd Numbers

 2. Maps

 3. Dopp kit (fwd)



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 19 Jun 1995 17:03:11 +0100

From:  Gonzalo Palacios  gonzalo.palacios[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MEST.UNIZAR.ES 

Subject: The Odd Numbers



I want to ask if somebody knows a group of music called "The Odd Numbers".

They're from San Diego (Califonia). If you know something about them, could you

tell me how many LPs had record?



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 19 Jun 1995 18:55:00 -0500

From:  Daniel S Goodman  dsg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU 

Subject: Maps



Help! I assume there's a knack to correlating dialect maps and

"civilian" (geopolitical) maps. I don't know the technique.



I have two specific questions, both about the New York City dialect area:



1) Does it include Bayonne, New Jersey? If not, what IS Bayonne's dialect?



2) Has anyone charted the current boundaries of the New York City

dialect? (I've asked about this before, and was referred to publications

from the '60's.)



Dan Goodman dsg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]maroon.tc.umn.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 19 Jun 1995 19:05:51 -0500

From:  Daniel S Goodman  dsg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU 

Subject: Re: Dopp kit (fwd)



Thanks. I've now forwarded this to the Stumpers list. (Stumpers is a

list for librarians who've reached the end of their resources.)



On Wed, 14 Jun 1995, Donna Metcalf wrote:



  According to my x-brother-in-law, Morton Doppelt, this was named by the

  manufacturer who was his great uncle or great grandfather, and who lived in

  New York.

  Donna Metcalf

 



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 18 Jun 1995 to 19 Jun 1995

************************************************





There are 7 messages totalling 191 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Maps (2)

 2. Semester System Requirements

 3. Hot as toffit (fwd) (2)

 4. S-W Va. Blue Ridge dialect

 5. Hot as toffit



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 20 Jun 1995 09:44:55 -0400

From:  "William A. Kretzschmar, Jr."  billk[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ATLAS.UGA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Maps



I am not aware of any recent attempts to draw a New York City dialect

area. Carver's 1987 *American Regional Dialects* (with DARE evidence from

the 70s) doesn't do it, but does mention Metro New York in several places.

Labov has treated New York as a dialect in his work on modern urban sound

change (his *Principles of Linguistic Change*, Blackwell 1994, will give

pretty comprehensive references). Aside from those two, studies I know

come from before the 1960s.



Whether or not Bayonne, NJ, belongs to a putative NYC dialect or not

seems to me to ask for sharp boundaries where none are to be expected.

The entire NYC-Philadelphia corridor seems to be pretty heavily populated

with people who work in either NYC or Philadelphia, so one might expect

heavy influences from the big cities throughout the region (of course

more influences the closer one is to either city).



The expectation that any nameable community has its own speech is quite

natural, and probably demonstrable if it were possible to do an intensive

study of each such place. However, as soon as we get to comparisons

between places, we are in the realm of frequencies, of how much one place

resembles or differs from another within the larger category of American

English, or within the even larger category of English speakers. The

notion that different places are really separate from each other within

such a broader context is a chimera. We believe that separately nameable

places should have "different" speech, but the belief does not make it so.

Certainly there will be some differences in the frequency of certain

linguistic characteristics, and there may even be some rare qualitatively

distinguishing features---but these don't make for good boundaries.



Regards, Bill

******************************************************************************

Bill Kretzschmar         Phone:  706-542-2246

Dept. of English         FAX:   706-542-2181

University of Georgia      Internet: billk[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]hyde.park.uga.edu

Athens, GA 30602-6205      Bitnet:  wakjengl[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 20 Jun 1995 16:34:45 -0400

From:  Wayne Glowka  wglowka[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAIL.GAC.PEACHNET.EDU 

Subject: Semester System Requirements



The University System of Georgia is well on its way to converting from the

quarter system to the semester system by the end of the decade. I have

been put in charge of converting our English curriculum. I am particularly

interested in knowing about freshman and sophomore requirements from

schools on the semester system.



I would appreciate private or list postings of answers to the following

questions.



1. Are students at your institution required to take composition? How

many hours?





2. May they place out of composition either by examination or other means?





3. Are all students required to take courses in literature? If yes, how

many hours?





4. What sophomore-level literature courses are required of English majors

at your institution? How many hours are required?





5. Does your institution require speech classes? How many hours?





Thanks,











Wayne Glowka

Professor of English

Director of Research and Graduate Student Services

Georgia College

Milledgeville, GA 31061

912-453-4222

wglowka[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mail.gac.peachnet.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 20 Jun 1995 18:52:18 -0500

From:  Daniel S Goodman  dsg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU 

Subject: Hot as toffit (fwd)



---------- Forwarded message ----------

Date: Tue, 20 Jun 1995 14:19:33 -0700 (PDT)

From: n  jcl[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CLASS.ORG 

To: STUMPERS-LIST[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CRF.CUIS.EDU

Subject: Hot as toffit



"Hot as toffit" - Has anyone heard this of this expression? Attributed to

the New England area. Patron doesn't know if "toffit" is spelled this way

or some similar variation. Pronounced with a long "o".



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 20 Jun 1995 20:17:57 -0400

From:  Allan Metcalf  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: S-W Va. Blue Ridge dialect



The following message came directly to me. I don't have particular expertise

in S-W Va. Blue Ridge dialect, so I'm posting it to the whole ADS-L and

encouraging relevant experts to reply directly to Mr. Goodson.

- Allan Metcalf

***************************



Trying to research my native South-West Virginia Blue Ridge Mountain

Scotch-Irish dialect on the Net from Switzerland and would greatly

appreciate any tips or reference to text and/or biblio. on line.

Thanks very much.

Rodger Goodson    rgoodson[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ping.ch 

Writer/Editor

ex-Eng. Depts. Cleveland State, St. Lawrence Univ.,

            Am. Col. of Switzerland



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 20 Jun 1995 19:48:45 -0500

From:  Daniel S Goodman  dsg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU 

Subject: Re: Maps



On Tue, 20 Jun 1995, William A. Kretzschmar, Jr. wrote:



  I am not aware of any recent attempts to draw a New York City dialect

  area. Carver's 1987 *American Regional Dialects* (with DARE evidence from

  the 70s) doesn't do it, but does mention Metro New York in several places.

  Labov has treated New York as a dialect in his work on modern urban sound

  change (his *Principles of Linguistic Change*, Blackwell 1994, will give

  pretty comprehensive references). Aside from those two, studies I know

  come from before the 1960s.

Thank you. I have the Carver book, and will look for the Labov book.



I suspect there are people in the field who would be happy to investigate

my question if I could provide the funding....



  Whether or not Bayonne, NJ, belongs to a putative NYC dialect or not

  seems to me to ask for sharp boundaries where none are to be expected.

  The entire NYC-Philadelphia corridor seems to be pretty heavily populated

  with people who work in either NYC or Philadelphia, so one might expect

  heavy influences from the big cities throughout the region (of course

  more influences the closer one is to either city).



Understood. I grew up on or near what should, in theory, be the western

boundary between the Hudson Valley and Upstate New York dialects. I've

never been able to hear the difference.



Dan Goodman dsg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]maroon.tc.umn.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 20 Jun 1995 20:57:32 -0400

From:  Allan Metcalf  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Re: Hot as toffit



Hell, it's Tophet.



-Allan Metcalf



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 20 Jun 1995 20:44:49 -0700

From:  THOMAS CLARK  tlc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NEVADA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Hot as toffit (fwd)



I know "hot as toffee" my father used to make the toffee and we would

pull it. It was very hot as you began the toffee pull. I would put my

hands in cold water every few minutes.



On Tue, 20 Jun 1995, Daniel S Goodman wrote:



  ---------- Forwarded message ----------

  Date: Tue, 20 Jun 1995 14:19:33 -0700 (PDT)

  From: n  jcl[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CLASS.ORG 

  To: STUMPERS-LIST[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CRF.CUIS.EDU

  Subject: Hot as toffit

 

  "Hot as toffit" - Has anyone heard this of this expression? Attributed to

  the New England area. Patron doesn't know if "toffit" is spelled this way

  or some similar variation. Pronounced with a long "o".

 



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 19 Jun 1995 to 20 Jun 1995

************************************************





There are 22 messages totalling 501 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. nurse / "sister" (13)

 2. Hot as toffit (fwd)

 3. hot as toffit

 4. Maps

 5. NEH budget vote

 6. Tim Fraser's request (3)

 7. e-xcommunicated

 8. ?Katie bar the door. (fwd)



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 21 Jun 1995 13:43:13 -0300

From:  Chris Brooks  chris[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HSCC.KUNIV.EDU.KW 

Subject: nurse / "sister"



Does anyone have a comment on the use of "sister" for "nurse"? My Czexh

colleague just asked me if they are the same in English. Here in

Kuwait, nurses are addressed as "sister"; evidently being addressed

as "nurse" is being demeaned, though the *job title* itself is

"nurse."



He says that in Czechoslovakia, the complete name translates as

"health sister" or "sister of health," but in practice it is

shortened to "sister."



I remember that in Indonesia, "suster" is also used; would this be

a borrowing from the Dutch? Is "sister" used for "nurse" in other

Germanic and / or Slavic languages?



Finally, does "sister" for "nurse" derive from Catholic nuns who

often serve as nurses throughout the world? Or does the meaning

come from the biological "sister," or someone who is close to

you, supportive, nurturing, etc?



Thanks for your ideas.         Chris Brooks / Kuwait



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 21 Jun 1995 13:20:32 +0200

From:  Jenny Becker  beckerj[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OMRI.CZ 

Subject: Re: nurse / "sister"



 Does anyone have a comment on the use of "sister" for "nurse"? My Czexh

 colleague just asked me if they are the same in English.

 

 I remember that in Indonesia, "suster" is also used; would this be

 a borrowing from the Dutch? Is "sister" used for "nurse" in other

 Germanic and / or Slavic languages?

 

 Finally, does "sister" for "nurse" derive from Catholic nuns who

 often serve as nurses throughout the world? Or does the meaning

 come from the biological "sister," or someone who is close to

 you, supportive, nurturing, etc?

 

 Thanks for your ideas.         Chris Brooks / Kuwait



In German, the word for nurse is also sister - Schwester or

Krankenschwester (which is interesting, as krank means sick, while the

Czechs place the emphasis on health). I don't know about the origin of the

use of sister, but I would guess that the nun connection is correct. In the

middle ages, the vast majority of hospitals in Europe were run by religious

orders.



Jenny Becker

beckerj[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]omri.cz



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 21 Jun 1995 07:35:32 -0400

From:  "M. Lynne Murphy"  104LYN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MUSE.ARTS.WITS.AC.ZA 

Subject: Re: nurse / "sister"



  In German, the word for nurse is also sister - Schwester or

  Krankenschwester (which is interesting, as krank means sick, while the

  Czechs place the emphasis on health). I don't know about the origin of the

  use of sister, but I would guess that the nun connection is correct. In the

  middle ages, the vast majority of hospitals in Europe were run by religious

  orders.



in south africa, there are 3 levels of nurse: nurse (lowest), staff

nurse, and (nursing) sister (highest level). i asked my colleague if

he thinks this came from afrikaans, and he says he believes no--that

it's the same in brit english



lynne murphy



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 21 Jun 1995 07:46:44 EDT

From:  "Janet M. Fuller"  JMCFULL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UNIVSCVM.CSD.SCAROLINA.EDU 

Subject: Re: nurse / "sister"



The German word for nurse is 'Krankenschwester',

which is literally 'sick-sister'; nurses are

often referred to then as 'Schwestern'

(sisters). -jmf



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 21 Jun 1995 07:48:53 -0600

From:  Larry Davis  DAVIS[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]WSUHUB.UC.TWSU.EDU 

Subject: Re: Hot as toffit (fwd)



I agree with Metcalf. In Hebrew, "Tophet" means 'inferno, fire,' and the term

can also refer to hell (if one believes in such a place). Webster III has a

fuller definition.



L. Davis



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 21 Jun 1995 09:12:30 -0400

From:  "E. Wayles Browne"  ewb2[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CORNELL.EDU 

Subject: Re: nurse / "sister"



In Russian nurse is _medsestra_, which is an abbreviation for

_meditsinskaya sestra_ "medical sister". Same phrase in Serbo-

Croatian: medicinska sestra "medical sister", although there

is another term too, bolnic^arka [hac^ek on the c] derived from

the word bolnica "hospital". Bulgarian also has the phrase

medicinska sestra. Polish, Czech, Slovak, Ukrainian each have

their own words for nurse, but siostra (Polish) / sestra (others)

is used in addition to these.

"Sister" is also used in British English, though not in

American. Norman Moss, _British/American Language Dictionary_,

Lincolnwood, IL: Passport Books 1984, p. 150 (in the British-to-

American listing) says: sister, n - a head nurse.

_Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English_, Harlow and London:

Longman 1978, has: sister... 4...BrE (a title for) a nurse in

charge of a department (WARD) of a hospital: Sister Brown /

the night sister







Wayles Browne, Assoc. Prof. of Linguistics

Dept. of Modern Languages and Linguistics, Morrill Hall

Cornell University

Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A.

tel. 607-255-0712 (o), 607-273-3009 (h)

e-mail ewb2[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cornell.edu (1989 to 1993 was: jn5j[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cornella.bitnet //

jn5j[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cornella.cit.cornell.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 21 Jun 1995 08:26:22 -0600

From:  Larry Davis  DAVIS[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]WSUHUB.UC.TWSU.EDU 

Subject: Re: nurse / "sister"



Nurse=sister is also British usage. It can mean only the head nurse, but the

term is also generalized to any nurse.



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 21 Jun 1995 09:44:08 EDT

From:  Arnold Zwicky  zwicky[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]LING.OHIO-STATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: nurse / "sister"



in british english, "sister" refers to the head nurse on a

ward; i believe that some speakers extend the term to any

hospital nurse.



arnold



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 21 Jun 1995 16:14:43 +0200

From:  Beat Siebenhaar  b7haar[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]DS.UNIZH.CH 

Subject: Re: nurse / "sister"



In Switzerland the term 'Schwester' (siter) is used to adress women with

the official term 'Krankenschwester' (sick persons sister), women with a 4

jear education. For women with a shorter education there is the official

term 'Krankenpflegerin' (=89 nurse), but normally they also are called

'Schwester'. Now more and more also men become 'Krankenschwester', but its

not usual to call them 'Krankenbruder' (sick persons brother), what would

be the corresponding therm, but 'Krankenpfleger' although the have al full

education.



Beat Siebenhaar



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 21 Jun 1995 09:14:52 -0500

From:  Mary Howe  HOWE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]KUHUB.CC.UKANS.EDU 

Subject: hot as toffit



In my family the expression is "hotter than Tophet." Several years

ago I saw the play "Painting Churches," written by my cousin, Tina

Howe. One of the characters (who closely resembled many men in the

family) used the expression. I was so surprised to hear it outside my

family (but not really) that I looked it up. Tophet means 'Gehenna,

hell' from "a shrine in the valley of Hinnom, south of ancient Jerusalem,

where human sacrifices, especially those of children, were performed to

Moloch," according to Webster's 3rd.



This part of the family has lived in or near Bristol, Rhode Island for

generations, although I believe Tina grew up in the Boston area.



Mary Howe



Child Language Program         Phone (913) 864-4789

University of Kansas          email howe[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]kuhub.cc.ukans.edu

1082 Dole Center

Lawrence, KS 66045



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 21 Jun 1995 08:50:52 -0700

From:  Peter McGraw  pmcgraw[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CALVIN.LINFIELD.EDU 

Subject: Re: Maps



On Tue, 20 Jun 1995, Daniel S Goodman wrote:



  On Tue, 20 Jun 1995, William A. Kretzschmar, Jr. wrote:

 

    I am not aware of any recent attempts to draw a New York City dialect

    area. Carver's 1987 *American Regional Dialects* (with DARE evidence from

    the 70s) doesn't do it, but does mention Metro New York in several places.

    Labov has treated New York as a dialect in his work on modern urban sound

    change (his *Principles of Linguistic Change*, Blackwell 1994, will give

    pretty comprehensive references). Aside from those two, studies I know

    come from before the 1960s.

  Thank you. I have the Carver book, and will look for the Labov book.

 

  I suspect there are people in the field who would be happy to investigate

  my question if I could provide the funding....

 

    Whether or not Bayonne, NJ, belongs to a putative NYC dialect or not

    seems to me to ask for sharp boundaries where none are to be expected.

    The entire NYC-Philadelphia corridor seems to be pretty heavily populated

    with people who work in either NYC or Philadelphia, so one might expect

    heavy influences from the big cities throughout the region (of course

    more influences the closer one is to either city).

 

  Understood. I grew up on or near what should, in theory, be the western

  boundary between the Hudson Valley and Upstate New York dialects. I've

  never been able to hear the difference.

 

  Dan Goodman dsg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]maroon.tc.umn.edu

 



On the other hand...



I don't know whether Bayonne is some kind of linguistic island or not. (I

was only there once, and never left the car. What was clear even from

inside the car was a heavy Italian and I think also Irish presence.) But I

do know that on a drive from Maplewood, NJ, (where I lived at the time) to

Cape May, I went into a restaurant in some town along the way, and

realized that I had left the greater New York dialect area behind. The

difference was dramatic. Unfortunately I don't remember what town it was.



Peter McGraw

Linfield College

McMinnville, OR



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 21 Jun 1995 09:11:34 -0700

From:  Peter McGraw  pmcgraw[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CALVIN.LINFIELD.EDU 

Subject: Re: nurse / "sister"



Indonesian "suster" would definitely be a borrowing from Dutch (zuster,

"sister"), and while my Wolters English-Dutch dictionary does not offer

"zuster" as an equivalent for "nurse," the counterpart Dutch-English

dictionary gives "nurse" as the second meaning of "zuster."



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 21 Jun 1995 14:39:17 EDT

From:  David Bergdahl  BERGDAHL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU 

Subject: Re: nurse / "sister"



From:  NAME: David Bergdahl

    FUNC: English

    TEL: (614) 593-2783           BERGDAHL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]A1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAX 

To:   MX%"ADS-L[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu"[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MRGATE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAX



In German nurses are "Schwester" and I believe that [nursing] nun is the origin.

BERGDAHL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU

David Bergdahl Ohio University/Athens

"Where Appalachia meets the Midwest"



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 21 Jun 1995 15:25:28 EDT

From:  Larry Horn  LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU 

Subject: Re: nurse / "sister"



My Wolters "Mini-woordenboek" does in fact list 'zuster' as the first Dutch

gloss on 'nurse' in the Engels/Nederlands section.



                Larry



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 21 Jun 1995 15:41:01 -0400

From:  Allan Metcalf  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: NEH budget vote



In the United States, the National Endowment for the Humanities has

significantly funded research in our field. The American Dialect Society

belongs to the National Humanities Alliance, a small Washington agency that

cultivates appreciation among members of Congress for the benefits of NEH.

NHA now notifies us that a vote on NEH appropriations is imminent, and

recommends that we get in touch immediately with certain members of the House

of Representatives. What you do is up to you, but FYI, I repeat the NHA

message below. - Allan Metcalf



************************************



NHA Washington Update, June 21, 1995

by John Hammer and Cuc Vu, National Humanities Alliance





House Interior Appropriations Subcommittee Passes Bunn Amendment to

Increase NEH FY96 Budget by Almost $50 million



The News



On June 20 the House Appropriations Subcommittee on Interior and Related

Agencies marked up their FY96 appropriations bill. Chairman Ralph Regula

(R-OH 16th) recommended funding NEH and NEA at $99.7 million. This

represents a 43% cut for NEH from the current FY95 level of $177 million

and a 39% cut for NEH. However, the subcommittee passed an amendment by

freshman Congressman Jim Bunn (R-OR 5th) to transfer $50 million from the

Life Sciences Research Service in the Department of Interior to the NEH.

With the transfer, the figure for NEH for FY96 will be close to $150

million. Only four members--Regula, George Nethercutt (R-WA 5th), Bob

Livingston (R-LA 1st), and David Skaggs (D-CO 1st)--opposed the Bunn

amendment.



Congressman Jim Kolbe (R-AZ 5th) introduced an amendment that would have

shifted 80% of NEH funds to the states. Kolbe presented his amendment as

consistent with H.R. 1557, a reauthorization bill introduced by William

Goodling (R-PA 19th) and passed in May by the House Economic and

Educational Opportunities Committee, which calls for a four-year phase out

of NEH and an 80% state set-aside. In a point of order, Norman Dicks (D-WA

6th) urged the subcommittee not to act on Kolbe's amendment on the grounds

that it was an attempt to legislate policy and thus was an inappropriate

issue to put before the subcommittee. The subcommittee agreed, and Kolbe

withdrew his amendment. Kolbe said he will try to rework his amendment for

the full Appropriations Committee markup on Thursday morning, June 22.



NHA Position



NHA supports the current funding level of $28 million for the state

programs. An 80% transfer of the proposed $150 million, would devastate

national educational, research, and public programs.



Request for Action



NHA urges its members and friends to contact the chairs and ranking members

of the Appropriations Committee and Interior Subcommittee. The message to

convey is:



We very much appreciate the $150 million markup for funding the National

Endowment   for the Humanities. However, we oppose any effort that

would give more to the states than they now receive.



At this point, phone calls to staffers are better than faxes. By whichever

mode of communication you wish to use, please make sure you make contact by

the close of business on Wednesday, June 21.



Ralph Regula, Chairman of Interior Appropriations Subcommittee

Tel (202) 225-3876

FAX (202) 225-3059

Staffer: Barbara Wainman



Sidney Yates, Ranking Minority of Interior Appropriations Subcommittee

Tel (202) 225-2111

FAX (202) 225-3493

Staffer: Mary Bain/Jason Alderman



Bob Livingston, Chairman of Appropriations Committee

Tel (202) 225-0739

FAX (202) 225-3015

Staffer: Stan Skocki (sounds like "skokey")



David Obey

Tel (202) 225-3365

FAX (202) 225-9476

Staffer: Christina Hamilton



Additional



NHA strongly encourages constituents of Jim Bunn (OR-5th), Barbara

Vucanovich (NV-2nd), Joseph Skeen (NM-2nd), Jim Kolbe (AZ-5th), Joseph

McDade (PA-10th), Charles Taylor (NC-11th), Sidney Yates (IL-9th), Norman

Dicks (WA-6th), Tom Bevill (AL-4th) and David Obey (WI-7) to thank these

legislators for their support of the NEH. Constituents of Jim Kolbe should

also urge him not to offer his amendment to transfer 80% of NEH funds to

the states.



This is an intense time for the NEH and things are moving fast on Capitol

Hill, so please stay tuned!





  Cuc Vu

  National Humanities Alliance

  21 Dupont Circle, N.W. Suite 800

  Washington, D.C.  20036

   (202) 296-4994

   Internet: cuc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cni.org



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 21 Jun 1995 15:44:18 -0400

From:  Allan Metcalf  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Tim Fraser's request



As you can see, Tim asked me to get this to everyone. - Allan Metcalf

********************

I seem to have been bounced from ADS-L by my home mainframe.



Can you tell me the editorial address for:

(Or forward this to ADS-L?)



International Journal of the Sociology of Language

English World Wide



Tim  mftcf[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uxa.ecn.bgu.edu 



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 21 Jun 1995 16:20:44 EST

From:  Beth Lee Simon  simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU 

Subject: Re: Tim Fraser's request



Allan, or any ADS person,

Is anyone getting through to Tim Fraser? My message to

him bounced due to his host.



beth



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 21 Jun 1995 17:36:51 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Tim Fraser's request



  Allan, or any ADS person,

  Is anyone getting through to Tim Fraser? My message to

  him bounced due to his host.



It seems to be up now. It just responded to 'ping' and to 'finger'.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 21 Jun 1995 18:51:32 -0400

From:  Allan Metcalf  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: e-xcommunicated



Tim Frazer is even harder to reach than I thought! This is my next message

from him:

**********

Whoa, all my new amil is being discarded. I won't get your reply until

the problem in the system is fixed.



Please announce on ADS-L that I am not getting any new mail.



Thanks.



Tim  mftcf[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uxa.ecn.bgu.edu 

**********

- Allan Metcalf



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 22 Jun 1995 09:06:45 +1000

From:  Barbara Horvath  bhorvath[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]EXTRO.UCC.SU.OZ.AU 

Subject: Re: nurse / "sister"



What is really odd is calling a male nurse sister as

we do here in Australia.



Barbara Horvath



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 21 Jun 1995 18:34:37 -0500

From:  Daniel S Goodman  dsg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU 

Subject: ?Katie bar the door. (fwd)



---------- Forwarded message ----------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 10:28:03 -0500 (EST)

From:ebrunslib[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]shrsys.hslc.org

To: stumpers-list[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CRF.CUIS.EDU

Subject: ?Katie bar the door.



   One of our patrons is looking for the origin of the slang phrase

Katie bar the door. After extensive searching in poetry books, songbooks

and word and phrase books, we have come up with only one reference. That

was in the New Dictionary of American Slang. It gives the meaning of the

phrase and its use by the New York Times and William Kennedy but no dates

and no background. Can anyone help?



An answer directly to my e mail address would be greatly appreciated.

Cheryl McBride

East Brunswick Public Library, New Jersey

ebpl[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]hslc.org



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 21 Jun 1995 19:27:09 CDT

From:  "Donald M. Lance"  ENGDL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU 

Subject: Re: nurse / "sister"



'nurse' in German is 'Schwester'        DMLance



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 20 Jun 1995 to 21 Jun 1995

************************************************





There are 12 messages totalling 346 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. nurse / "sister"

 2. A Dumb Question about the NEH (7)

 3. Isolation

 4. Words for '95

 5. NEH appropriations update

 6. Hot as...: a late entry



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 22 Jun 1995 08:22:45 IDT

From:  Avraham Kofman  avi[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]TOVNA.CO.IL 

Subject: Re: nurse / "sister"



Beat Siebenhaar wrote:



 'Now more and more also men become 'Krankenschwester', but its not usual to call them 'Krankenbruder' (sick persons brother), what would

be the corresponding therm, but 'Krankenpfleger' although the have al full

education.'



In Russsian the term 'medbrat' (an abbreviation of 'medicinskij brat' - medical brother) is used quite oficially. The same in Hebrew: 'ah' (brother) is a term used for a male nurse. While in Russian, speaking about somebody's profession, you never say just 'sister' or 'brother', in Hebrew it's quite normal.



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 22 Jun 1995 08:16:47 -0400

From:  Wayne Glowka  wglowka[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAIL.GAC.PEACHNET.EDU 

Subject: A Dumb Question about the NEH



I lean so far to the left that I have trouble negotiating narrow doorways,

but I don't fully see the disadvantages of transferring 80% of NEH funds to

the state humanities agencies.



At my institution, we have received money both from the Georgia Endowment

for the Humanities (which is funded by the NEH) and from the NEH itself for

various projects, and I thus have no prejudice against either agency in

regard to funding possibilities. However, after a year of working with

grants on a small scale, I have developed prejudices about working with

state and federal agencies. The people from the GEH travel around the

state and give little workshops on how to apply for funds. An interested

party can call them and actually talk to someone who administers the

program. My other limited experience with state agencies has also

impressed me: they know who we are; if we have some trouble with the

application process, the state senator across the street can call for us;

we can check out the possibilities for funding before we go through the

trouble of filling out mounds of paper.



The NEH Fellowship application is a minimal affair, but the other federal

applications I have seen are nightmares. Just the mailing directions take

up a two-column page or more! Calling for information is also difficult

and expensive if you don't already know the right person to call on the

right day.



I can see that a major project like DARE would be a horrible drain on a

specific state allocation (and therefore might not get funded), but from

where I sit (in a small college in the middle of nowhere), I can see many

perhaps selfish advantages in having money available at the state level.





Wayne Glowka

Professor of English

Director of Research and Graduate Student Services

Georgia College

Milledgeville, GA 31061

912-453-4222

wglowka[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mail.gac.peachnet.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 22 Jun 1995 09:07:42 -0400

From:  "William A. Kretzschmar, Jr."  billk[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ATLAS.UGA.EDU 

Subject: Re: A Dumb Question about the NEH



Wayne Glowka's comment (question) on possible transfer of NEH money to the

states is not dumb at all. Here's the why not, as far as I can see:



1) there would be 50 bureaucracies for people to deal with instead of

one, requiring many times (though perhaps not 50 times) the support

staff. From what I have seen of NEH, their staff and offices are now

lean and mean, not bloated and ripe for hacking like the Dept. of

Agriculture.



2) state funding for individuals (fellowships) would be fine, but as

Wayne suggested it would be very difficult for those of us with

multi-state projects. Even larger projects within each state would have

terrible problems: if each state had $3 million, of which $1 million

went for overhead of different kinds, it would be hard to justify any

large grants owing to the large number of state interests that need to be

satisfied. The Ga Humanities programs dole out $1000 at a time.



3) many of the projects that NEH was established to help---dictionaries,

atlases, editions, translations---are in the national interest, not in

the interest of any state. Dividing up money by state makes every local

interest a player *against* the larger national interest, because state

bureaucracies would want to keep the money at home and not fritter it

away on things that were not of local interest. At best, there would be

an interest in paying scholars and citizens within the state, even if

their projects were national or global, and even that would make it hard

to work collaborations across state lines (as I have attempted several

times).



4) Finally, block grants to states do not always get used for the

purposes one expects them to. One can imagine the (possible) NEH block

grant to Georgia being used to fund Gov. Miller's Country Music Hall of

Fame, or paying for reduced-price movie tickets for urban residents at

midnight (instead of crime-bill basketball), or funding the establishment

of "humanities camps" for first-time offenders that the state didn't want

to pay to put in high-security prison (like our current bootcamps).

While these might be good ideas and even be popular in the state, they

are hardly the kind of scholarly programs that our national NEH supports.



Regards, Bill

******************************************************************************

Bill Kretzschmar         Phone:  706-542-2246

Dept. of English         FAX:   706-542-2181

University of Georgia      Internet: billk[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]hyde.park.uga.edu

Athens, GA 30602-6205      Bitnet:  wakjengl[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 22 Jun 1995 09:18:48 -0400

From:  Wayne Glowka  wglowka[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAIL.GAC.PEACHNET.EDU 

Subject: Re: A Dumb Question about the NEH



 Wayne Glowka's comment (question) on possible transfer of NEH money to the

 states is not dumb at all. Here's the why not, as far as I can see:

 

 1) there would be 50 bureaucracies for people to deal with instead of

 one, requiring many times (though perhaps not 50 times) the support

 staff. From what I have seen of NEH, their staff and offices are now

 lean and mean, not bloated and ripe for hacking like the Dept. of

 Agriculture.

 

 2) state funding for individuals (fellowships) would be fine, but as

 Wayne suggested it would be very difficult for those of us with

 multi-state projects. Even larger projects within each state would have

 terrible problems: if each state had $3 million, of which $1 million

 went for overhead of different kinds, it would be hard to justify any

 large grants owing to the large number of state interests that need to be

 satisfied. The Ga Humanities programs dole out $1000 at a time.

 

 3) many of the projects that NEH was established to help---dictionaries,

 atlases, editions, translations---are in the national interest, not in

 the interest of any state. Dividing up money by state makes every local

 interest a player *against* the larger national interest, because state

 bureaucracies would want to keep the money at home and not fritter it

 away on things that were not of local interest. At best, there would be

 an interest in paying scholars and citizens within the state, even if

 their projects were national or global, and even that would make it hard

 to work collaborations across state lines (as I have attempted several

 times).

 

 4) Finally, block grants to states do not always get used for the

 purposes one expects them to. One can imagine the (possible) NEH block

 grant to Georgia being used to fund Gov. Miller's Country Music Hall of

 Fame, or paying for reduced-price movie tickets for urban residents at

 midnight (instead of crime-bill basketball), or funding the establishment

 of "humanities camps" for first-time offenders that the state didn't want

 to pay to put in high-security prison (like our current bootcamps).

 While these might be good ideas and even be popular in the state, they

 are hardly the kind of scholarly programs that our national NEH supports.

 

 Regards, Bill



Well said, Bill.





Wayne Glowka

Professor of English

Director of Research and Graduate Student Services

Georgia College

Milledgeville, GA 31061

912-453-4222

wglowka[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mail.gac.peachnet.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 22 Jun 1995 11:02:20 EST

From:  Beth Lee Simon  simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU 

Subject: Re: A Dumb Question about the NEH



Thank you Bill K!



beth simon



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 22 Jun 1995 11:29:37 CST

From:  Joan Hall  jdhall[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU 

Subject: Re: A Dumb Question about the NEH



If 80% of the NEH funds were transferred to state councils, I see absolutely

no way that DARE could survive. But it's not just DARE, it's ALL the big

projects: think about the Twain project at Berkeley, the biography project

at Princeton, the History of Cartography project here at the UW-Madison, and

the Documentary History of the Ratification of the Constitution, and the

AngloSaxon Manuscripts on Microfiche projects, both also here in Madison.

Not one of these could survive on money from a state council. It would be

nice to think that states might work together on projects like these, but

who really thinks that's a possibility? NEH grants work because they are

large enough to tackle major projects that simply can't be done any other

way. Please oppose the Kolbe amendment!



Joan Hall, DARE



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 22 Jun 1995 13:15:56 +0100

From:  debaron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UIUC.EDU

Subject: Re: A Dumb Question about the NEH



In the midst of a long stretch of Republican administration and under the

auspices of the much reviled Lynne Cheney, NEH funded my own modest study

that led to the publication of "The English-Only Question: An Official

Language for Americans?" (Yale, 1990). You would think the topic would have

been too controversial for the supposedly politically-tainted NEH to touch,

especially considering my argument that official language legislation was

misguided and wouldn't work, but that issue never came up in my dealings

with NEH.



I doubt very much that a body like the Illinois Humanities Council would

have wanted to fund my project, and certainly not at the level of funding I

needed. Illinois is not big on giving released time to professors for just

sitting and thinking and writing. How does it benefit the citizens of the

state, they ask, to pay for all that down time? Besides, my work on

English-only legislation in Illinois was not particularly flattering to the

state pols.



So, for what it's worth, I'm all for NEH

and commercial-free public broadcasting.



Dennis

--



Dennis Baron                      debaron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uiuc.edu



Department of English             office: 217-333-2392

University of Illinois                fax: 217-333-4321

608 South Wright Street            home: 217-384-1683

Urbana, Illinois 61801



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 22 Jun 1995 15:25:03 -0500

From:  "Timothy C. Frazer"  mftcf[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UXA.ECN.BGU.EDU 

Subject: Re: Isolation



OK, I have my e-mail fixed. Anything sent to me between June 17 and 21

is probably lost.



Tim



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 22 Jun 1995 19:59:07 GMT

From:  Barnhart  Lexik[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HIGHLANDS.COM 

Subject: Words for '95



Before ADS members and others who just lurk here toddle off to summer

pursuits, I make another appeal for your candidates for "Word(s) of the

Year". There is quite a collection developing which I shall digest and post

over the summer for your information. If you folks out there in the

electronic ether keep those candidates coming in, we can expect plenty of

heat in December in the windy city.



Barnhart[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]Highlands.com



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 22 Jun 1995 18:27:57 -0400

From:  "H. Stephen Straight (Binghamton University/SUNY)"

      sstraigh[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]BINGSUNS.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU 

Subject: Re: A Dumb Question about the NEH



The VERY amiable Glowka/Kretschmar "debate", in which I find myself

agreeing with both sides (as do the two of them, apparently), left out one

prominent pro-NEH point. Ironically, I present this point despite my own

(sour grape-ish?) displeasure with what I perceive as an elitist

(rich-get-richer) bias in the NEH peer-review process. Specifically, NEH

provides for the humanities as a whole, very much as NSF does for other

disciplines, and as FIPSE does for higher-education instructional domains,

a well-developed nationally-representative mechanism for the funding of

discipline-based scholarly research. To abandon these national

clearinghouses for research would be as ridiculous (and as reasonable, if

you have a mind to do it) as to abandon the MLA, the AHA, the APA, the

AAA, the LSA, and (pick your disciplinary acronym) all the other national

forums for the public presentation and publication of the results of the

funded (and unfunded) research. Would we have each state attempt to

duplicate the nationally-composed review panels? Would we have each

state (or regional) disciplinary organization attempt to represent the

entire nation in the composition of its conference program committees?

    Elimination of national "bureaucracies" in these area might

quickly lead to the spawning of even more wasteful, and far less

effective, state-by-state bureaucracies. (This is reminiscent of the

well-documented fact that single-payer national health-care bureaucracies

extract fewer premium dollars for administrative costs than the

collective costs extracted by the existing myriad of private

health-insurance providers.)



signature =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

H Stephen STRAIGHT, Assoc Prof of Anthro & of Ling, Binghamton Univ (SUNY)

Director: Grad Studies in Anthro, Prog in Ling, and Lgs Across the Curric

Box 6000, Binghamton, NY 13902-6000; Voice: 607-777-2824; Fax: -2889/-2477

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 22 Jun 1995 19:04:00 -0400

From:  Allan Metcalf  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: NEH appropriations update



 From the very capable National Humanities Alliance in Washington, two further

bulletins for those concerned with funding the National Endowment for the

Humanities. Both are from John Hammer  jhammer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]a.cni.org , who is director

and practically the sole employee of the mostly volunteer NHA. - Allan

Metcalf

**************************

Thu, Jun 22, 1995 10:17 AM CDT

The barrage of FAXes from NEH members to key members of the House

Appropriations Committee has had an unfortunate side effect on the

ranking minority member David Obey (D-WI). So many FAXes came in in the

last 24 hours that machines jammed. Sidney Yates also told me that he

thought that we'd overdone it. Please do not send any more FAXes on this

issue at this time.



*********************************

Thu, Jun 22, 1995 5:11 PM CDT

The House Appropriations Committee spent much of the day (between many votes

on the floor) working on the markup of the Interior and Related Agencies

appropriation for FY-96. Committee staffers say that no final actions

were taken on any part of the budget. The issues so far apparently

involve proposals for greater cuts throughout the budget. The committee

has not yet considered the endowment-specific section of the bill. The

committee adjourned late this afternoon so that members could participate in

the debate on a foreign affairs bill. The committee will reconvene at

8:30 am on Tuesday, June 27.



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 22 Jun 1995 22:23:00 EDT

From:  Larry Horn  LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU 

Subject: Hot as...: a late entry



While the derivation from Tophet is quite compelling, consider the following

possibly related datum (conveyed by Barbara Abbott of Michigan State U.):





 My mother always said "Hot as tunkit". But she never told us what tunkit

 was, or how hot it was. Or how to spell it either. She grew up in

 Freeport Ill.



anyone for tunkit?



Larry



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 21 Jun 1995 to 22 Jun 1995

************************************************





There are 2 messages totalling 65 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. queries re IPA, jig time, lay with

 2. queries re IPA



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 23 Jun 1995 12:19:40 CST

From:  Luanne von Schneidemesser  lvonschn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU 

Subject: queries re IPA, jig time, lay with



Can you help on any of the following?



First the technical: We are looking for an IPA font to run on DOS, not

Windows, for a BubbleJet, which emulates a dot matrix printer, not a laser

printer. I tried all the responses from last year's Linguist list which

were passed on to me, but the people have left no forwarding address so the

mail was simply returned to me, or, as with the SIL font, the font is only

for Windows or for laser printers. Laser printers don't do well with 4 x 6

inch paper. Can anyone help, pleeeease?



Next the points on which DARE needs clarification:



Do you know the expression in jig time? It seems it might be regional, but

there is doubt. If you know it, from where?



How about lay with (it), meaning hold tight to, keep at, stick with; also

for this area of usage.



Thanks.



Luanne



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 23 Jun 1995 14:12:09 -0500

From:  jeffrey howard allen  jhallen[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]INDIANA.EDU 

Subject: queries re IPA



Answer to the attached message:



There is an IPA software package for Wordperfect 5.1 that can emulate dot

matrix printers and Bubble Jet printers. The information I received on

it a couple of years ago was printed by both dot matrix and laser

printers. It is a distributor in Germany. I know exactly where the

brochure is at home, next to the phonetics and phonology books. I saw it

the other evening while reorganizing some stuff. This application works

within WP 5.1 in the Lines and Boxes menu.



Please give me your snail mail address if you want copies of what I

received from the distributor.



Jeff Allen

jhallen[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]indiana.edu OR jeallen[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]heartland.bradley.edu



---------- Forwarded message ----------

Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 12:19:40 CST

From: Luanne von Schneidemesser  lvonschn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU 

Subject: queries re IPA, jig time, lay with



Can you help on any of the following?



First the technical: We are looking for an IPA font to run on DOS, not

Windows, for a BubbleJet, which emulates a dot matrix printer, not a laser

printer. I tried all the responses from last year's Linguist list which

were passed on to me, but the people have left no forwarding address so the

mail was simply returned to me, or, as with the SIL font, the font is only

for Windows or for laser printers. Laser printers don't do well with 4 x 6

inch paper. Can anyone help, pleeeease?



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 22 Jun 1995 to 23 Jun 1995

************************************************





There is one message totalling 21 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. NEH



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Sat, 24 Jun 1995 14:56:45 -0700

From:  Anton Sherwood  dasher[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NETCOM.COM 

Subject: NEH



Is this the dialect list, or the Save My Grant list?



Do the various disciplines really benefit by competing for attention

from a single granting body?



Do donors (taxpayers) benefit by having a single authority decide

how their money will be spent?



Was research of nationwide interest never done before there was a NEH?



Is DARE more important to science than, say, a dictionary of Pennsylvania

dialects -- or one that also covers Canada and Australia?



*\\* Anton                       Ubi scriptum?



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 23 Jun 1995 to 24 Jun 1995

************************************************





There are 3 messages totalling 122 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. New Mailing List Announcement

 2. IPA fonts for WordPerfect 5.1 DOS

 3. NEH



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 25 Jun 1995 15:48:10 -0400

From:  Ross Hedvicek  naafetee[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HOOKUP.NET 

Subject: New Mailing List Announcement



Note to moderator:



I would like to submit following maillist announcement for possible

distribution to your subscribers. We found out that especially people from

universities as well as from all and most improbable walks of life are

interested in it. Thank you for your kindness,



Ross Hedvicek naafetee[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]hookup.net

 -----------------------------



TRADE MAILLIST ANNOUNCEMENT



There is a new maillist EEUROPE-BUSINESS, which is

dedicated to doing business in Eastern Europe - with clear

mission that subscribers are able to post there their offers

 and requests, commercial or non-commercial (as long

as they are related to Eastern Europe), business leads (from

and for Eastern Europe) and advertisements (for goods which

are saleable to Eastern Europe) are welcomed (not discouraged).

The list is NOT moderated - this is intentional feature (abusers

will be flamed by other subscribers :-))) )  Maillist is available in

digest form (as an option) - in case that traffic get heavy.



You can subscribe by sending mail  SUBSCRIBE eeurope-business 

to "listmanager[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]hookup.net". The list is controlled by sending mail to

"listmanager[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]hookup.net". If you send it a message with "help" in

the message body, it will respond by sending you a list of the

commands it knows. Mailing address for posting is

"eeurope-business[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]hookup.net".



Ross Hedvicek naafetee[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]hookup.net

-------



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 25 Jun 1995 17:39:41 CDT

From:  Jeff Allen  jeallen[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]HEARTLAND.BRADLEY.EDU 

Subject: IPA fonts for WordPerfect 5.1 DOS



For those of you interested in the question of an IPA font set for non-

Windows applications, the Lines, boxes etc + Phonetic Edition (IPA font

set configured for 9-pin, 24-pin and laser printers) is available for

LINCOM EUROPA.



You need MS-DOS or PC-DOS versions 2.1 or above, an EGA or VGA monitor

, Wordperfect 5.1, and a compatible printer (H-P Laserjet or DeskJet, a

24-pin printer or an Epson or IBM 9-pin printer). Laser printers running

with PostScript are not compatible.



Lines, Boxes, etc (LBE) does not interfere with other font management

procedures. Access characters directly using WP 5.1.



LBE is a memory-resident program that installs automatically at printer

port LPT1. when the user requires a special character/symbol from WP

5.1 character sets, the charcter number is translated into specific

graphic data which are sent to the printer. LBE characters can be mixed

in lines with standard printer characters.



LBE was developed specifically for WP 5.0 and 5.1 with a specialized

phetic character set that follows the IPA phonetic alphabet, diacritic,

and symbol set.





You can contact LINCOM EUROPA for more information. I also have the

full brochure including printouts of the characters in dot matrix and

laser printer sets.



Linguistic Sales & Distribution Market

LINCOM EUROPA

P.O box 1316

D-8044 Unterschleissheim GERMANY



Tel: 089-314-95-93  FAX 089-314-89-09

You will need to look up the country code for Germany as I do not have

it here. It might be possible that you need to drop off the initial 0

when calling from outside of Germany. I am not sure of this as I have

never needed to call this number.



I hope this information can be useful for non-Windows users.



Jeff Allen

Translations Dept, Caterpillar Inc.

jhallen[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]indiana.edu OR jeallen[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]heartland.bradley.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 25 Jun 1995 20:25:03 -0700

From:  THOMAS CLARK  tlc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NEVADA.EDU 

Subject: Re: NEH



Dear Anton,

Would you please present your credentials to this list before presuming

to offer a "Save My Grant List" piece? You seem to be trolling in alien

waters...

Will you offer a serious set of arguments or will you offer a diatribe?

Cheers,

tlc



On Sat, 24 Jun 1995, Anton Sherwood wrote:



  Is this the dialect list, or the Save My Grant list?

 

  Do the various disciplines really benefit by competing for attention

  from a single granting body?

 

  Do donors (taxpayers) benefit by having a single authority decide

  how their money will be spent?

 

  Was research of nationwide interest never done before there was a NEH?

 

  Is DARE more important to science than, say, a dictionary of Pennsylvania

  dialects -- or one that also covers Canada and Australia?

 

  *\\* Anton                       Ubi scriptum?

 



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 24 Jun 1995 to 25 Jun 1995

************************************************





There are 7 messages totalling 139 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. queries re IPA, jig time, lay wi

 2. NEH

 3. seeking DSNA conf info

 4. queries re IPA, jig time, lay with

 5. Hot as tunket (2)

 6. English Dialect in Tidewater, Virginia



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 25 Jun 1995 23:39:17 -0400

From:  James C Stalker  stalker[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PILOT.MSU.EDU 

Subject: Re: queries re IPA, jig time, lay wi



 

  Do you know the expression in jig time? It seems it might be regional, but

  there is doubt. If you know it, from where?



I associate the term with 1930/40 movies, New York street types, Irish

probably.  I grew up in Louisville, KY. Born 1940.



 

  How about lay with (it), meaning hold tight to, keep at, stick with; also

  for this area of usage.



No help here.



Stalker[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]pilot.msu.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Sun, 25 Jun 1995 22:00:08 -0700

From:  Anton Sherwood  dasher[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NETCOM.COM 

Subject: NEH



THOMAS CLARK  tlc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NEVADA.EDU  objects to my dissent:

  Dear Anton,

  Would you please present your credentials to this list before presuming

  to offer a "Save My Grant List" piece?



I pay taxes. What credentials do I need, to question how they are spent?



  You seem to be trolling in alien waters...



Amusing choice of words.



  Will you offer a serious set of arguments or will you offer a diatribe?



Will you offer serious counter-argument, or bullying?



Perhaps I'll just unsubscribe, as I've obviously misunderstood

the purpose of ADS-L.



Anton Sherwood  *\\*  +1 415 267 0685  *\\*  DASher[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]netcom.com



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 26 Jun 1995 08:11:23 CST

From:  Luanne von Schneidemesser  lvonschn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU 

Subject: seeking DSNA conf info



Does anyone know about getting from the airport in Cleveland to Case Western

Reserve? Method? Cost? possible after 11:00 p.m.?



Thanks.



Luanne



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 26 Jun 1995 11:01:26 EDT

From:  Bruce Southard  ENSOUTHA[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ECUVM.CIS.ECU.EDU 

Subject: Re: queries re IPA, jig time, lay with



Re IPA fonts: I use LaserIPA on an HP DeskWriter, which is a bubblejet

printer.

 The printer is connected to a Mac, so I don't know if the font will

work with an IBM. I use the IPA fonts (there are four) along with

Microsoft Word without any difficulty. I'm sure you can get additional

information from:



Linguist's Software PO Box 580 Edmonds, WA 98020-0580 (206) 775-1130 FAX

(206) 771-5911



Re 'in jig time': the expression was used in the Texas Panhandle

(Lubbock, to be specific) when I was growing up in the fifties and

sixties. It meant to do something quickly.



Regards,



Bruce



Bruce Southard

English Department

East Carolina University

ensoutha[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ecuvm1

ensoutha[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ecuvm.cis.ecu.edu

919-328-6041

919-328-4889 (FAX)



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 26 Jun 1995 12:15:10 CST

From:  Joan Hall  jdhall[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU 

Subject: Re: Hot as tunket



The evidence in the DARE files shows "tunket," as in "hot as tunket," "cold

as tunket," "where in tunket," "by tunket," etc. to be a distinctly New

England word. W3 says it's probably a euphemism for "tophet." In any case,

it substitutes for "hell," "the devil," "tarnation," etc.



Joan Hall



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 26 Jun 1995 14:39:45 EDT

From:  Larry Horn  LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU 

Subject: Re: Hot as tunket



  Thanks, Joan.

I should reassure DARE and other interested parties that the source of the

datum I cited ("hot as tunket") may have been originally from the midwest,

but she later lived  in Old Greenwich, CT, so it's quite likely she picked

the tunket up there. (Right next to the junket, no doubt.)



Larry

----------------------------Original message----------------------------

The evidence in the DARE files shows "tunket," as in "hot as tunket," "cold

as tunket," "where in tunket," "by tunket," etc. to be a distinctly New

England word. W3 says it's probably a euphemism for "tophet." In any case,

it substitutes for "hell," "the devil," "tarnation," etc.



Joan Hall



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 26 Jun 1995 15:26:00 EDT

From:  Steve Clark  sclark[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]TSCWO.COM 

Subject: English Dialect in Tidewater, Virginia



I am interested in a particular English dialect spoken by the "Guineamen" (I

think that's right) in the Tidewater area of Virginia (specifically near

Yorktown). Any information would be appreciated.



Thanks,

Steve Clark



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 25 Jun 1995 to 26 Jun 1995

************************************************





There are 6 messages totalling 113 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. seeking DSNA conf info

 2. FAQ (2)

 3. Cleveland DSNA transportation

 4. English Dialect in Tidewater, Virginia (2)



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 26 Jun 1995 20:59:36 -0700

From:  kim mckinzey  rkm[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SLIP.NET 

Subject: Re: seeking DSNA conf info



Luanne,



I was told by the B & B that a cab is about $20-25.00. There was no

mention of public transportation. Presumably, cabs are always available.

I didn't ask about late night since we should be arriving earlier in the

evening.



Rima



------------------------------



Date:  Mon, 26 Jun 1995 23:54:27 -0500

From:  Janice Edwards Stanton  jes0001[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JOVE.ACS.UNT.EDU 

Subject: Re: FAQ



Please send information about this group. I'm a new subscriber.



Thanks.



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 27 Jun 1995 06:13:02 -0400

From:  Mike Agnes  by971[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU 

Subject: Cleveland DSNA transportation



Luanne von Schneidemesser  lvonschn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU  asks:



 Does anyone know about getting from the airport in Cleveland

 to Case Western Reserve? Method? Cost? possible after 11:00 p.m.?



Best method is to take the RTA Rapid Transit, which boards on

the bottom level of the air terminal. Take the escalator down

from the baggage claim area to the turnstiles. Cost is $1.50.

On weeknights, trains depart every 15 minutes through the last

departures at 9:14 and 9:35, all traveling on to University

Circle. I will ask Lou Milic to present best transportation

schemes for later times and will post his recommendations on

the list. (Trains departing after 9:35 do not go all the way

to University Circle.)



  Mike Agnes

  by971[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cleveland.freenet.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 27 Jun 1995 05:53:04 -0500

From:  Natalie Maynor  maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU 

Subject: Re: FAQ



  Please send information about this group. I'm a new subscriber.



I'm answering this on the list instead of directly in case there are

other newcomers. As the welcome message says, the purpose of this list

is to serve as a forum for the exchange of information and ideas by

members of the American Dialect Society. Although outsiders are welcome

here, there is no reason for a FAQ file since most of the people on this

list are active dialectologists/sociolinguistics and don't have the kinds

of questions that usually show up in FAQ files.



For more information, look at the ADS web pages (http://www.msstate.edu/

Archives/ADS/), gopher space (gopher.msstate.edu), or ftp files (ftp.msstate.

edu/pub/archives/ADS).

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 27 Jun 1995 07:45:41 EDT

From:  Bruce Southard  ENSOUTHA[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ECUVM.CIS.ECU.EDU 

Subject: Re: English Dialect in Tidewater, Virginia



See David Shores' 1984 article, "The Stressed Vowels of the Speech of

Tangier Island, Virginia" in _Journal of English Linguistics_, Vol 17,

pp 37-56.



The Video _American Tongues_ has several examples of speech by natives

of Tangier Island also.



Regards,



Bruce



Bruce Southard

English Department

East Carolina University

ensoutha[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ecuvm1

ensoutha[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ecuvm.cis.ecu.edu

919-328-6041

919-328-4889 (FAX)



------------------------------



Date:  Tue, 27 Jun 1995 08:53:57 -0400

From:  "William A. Kretzschmar, Jr."  billk[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ATLAS.UGA.EDU 

Subject: Re: English Dialect in Tidewater, Virginia



Bruce Southard has mentioned David Shores' article. Depending on one's

interest in such speech, it may also be appropriate to mention Walt

Wolfram's work on Ocracoke Island, a North Carolina Sea Island, which

also has a distinctive speech form.



Regards, Bill

******************************************************************************

Bill Kretzschmar         Phone:  706-542-2246

Dept. of English         FAX:   706-542-2181

University of Georgia      Internet: billk[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]hyde.park.uga.edu

Athens, GA 30602-6205      Bitnet:  wakjengl[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 26 Jun 1995 to 27 Jun 1995

************************************************





There are 5 messages totalling 151 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Cleveland DSNA transportation

 2. gender vocabulary (3)

 3. NEH congressional news



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 28 Jun 1995 00:06:18 -0700

From:  kim mckinzey  rkm[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SLIP.NET 

Subject: Re: Cleveland DSNA transportation



Mike,



Well, I definitely like the idea of taking public transportation for $1.50

better than a cab for $22.00, which is what the B&B told me. Do you know

if one can get from University Circle to Griffin House (was that the name

of the B&B?? I don't have the info in front of me) easily?



Rima McKinzey

rkm[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]slip.net



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 28 Jun 1995 10:35:53 -0400

From:  Ellen Johnson  ellenj[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ATLAS.UGA.EDU 

Subject: gender vocabulary



I have a student who is doing a paper on terms for masculinity and

femininity and people who exhibit varying levels of each. It would

include terms for homosexuals. She is looking at the depth of the

semantic field, for one thing, among gays and lesbians vs. straight

informants and is trying to work from a discourse analysis point of view.



Does anyone have references on this topic that you will share with us?



Thanks, Ellen Johnson ellenj[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]atlas.uga.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 28 Jun 1995 10:38:52 -0400

From:  Wayne Glowka  wglowka[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MAIL.GAC.PEACHNET.EDU 

Subject: Re: gender vocabulary



 I have a student who is doing a paper on terms for masculinity and

 femininity and people who exhibit varying levels of each. It would

 include terms for homosexuals. She is looking at the depth of the

 semantic field, for one thing, among gays and lesbians vs. straight

 informants and is trying to work from a discourse analysis point of view.

 

 Does anyone have references on this topic that you will share with us?

 

 Thanks, Ellen Johnson ellenj[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]atlas.uga.edu



I don't have any, but the Chaucerians were worried about the same kind

semantic spectrum in regard to characters and Chaucer himself in Dublin

last year. The worry is part of queer theory.







Wayne Glowka

Professor of English

Director of Research and Graduate Student Services

Georgia College

Milledgeville, GA 31061

912-453-4222

wglowka[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mail.gac.peachnet.edu



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 28 Jun 1995 18:30:12 -0400

From:  Allan Metcalf  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: NEH congressional news



Keeping an eye on Congress with regard to money for the National Endowment

for the Humanities is John Hammer of the National Humanities Alliance. His

electronic report follows.



(Before presenting the report, I want to express my appreciation for the NEH

discussion, both calm and heated, on ADS-L. As humanists and taxpayers, as we

go about our business, ADS members in the U.S. can hardly avoid taking NEH

into account. Personally, I think it has made useful contributions to

Americans' self-understanding, e.g. DARE. But whatever you think, you deserve

to be informed about the significant funding decisions coming along.) - Allan

Metcalf



*******************



Wed, Jun 28, 1995 9:27 AM CDT



On the House Appropriations Committee markup for FY-96 appropriations for

NEH and the cancellation of the Senate Labor Committee markup.



A report from John Hammer and Cuc Vu at the National Humanities Alliance



Yesterday, the House Appropriations Committee marked up the Interior and

Related Agencies bill for FY-96 and sent it on toward the floor -- perhaps as



early as the week of July 10. In the 6/20/95 subcommittee markup, $50

million was moved from the Biological Survey to the NEH bringing the

humanities agency total to just short of $150 million. In a deal worked

out in advance of yesterday's full committee markup, the $50 million was

moved to Interior Department programs (mostly Bureau of Land Management) and

NEH dropped back to $99.5 million. The deal in exchange for the $50

million is a commitment by Ralph Regula, chair of the Interior

subcommittee, to seek a protective rule that would block removing money

for the endowment because they are not authorized when the bill reaches

the floor. If the Rules Committee agrees to the protective rule it will

be a substantial step forward in the campaign to retain the endowments.

The prospects of the Rules Committee acting favorably are fairly bright

because the committee will also be asked to protect the Bureau of Land

Management since it is also unauthorized.



During the 6/20 subcommittee markup, Jim Kolbe (R-AZ 5th) proposed that

80% of NEH's funds be shifted to the state humanities councils but

withdrew the amendment when advised that it would change the legislation

and was therefore beyond the scope of an appropriations bill. In the

full committee, a revised proposal from Mr. Kolbe to increase funds for

the states by $5 million was accepted. That means that the states will

be included at $23 million rather than $18 million when the bill goes to

the floor.



Comment - Last January, it looked as though the NEH campaign was going to

have to deal with an appropriations situation in the house in which the

endowments would be largely excluded from the process due to a lack of

legislative authorization. Against that background, the outcome is

good. (If we succeed in getting a significantly higher appropriation on

the Senate side we could escape with as little as 20/25% cut. The $50

million addition in the subcommittee had very little to do with NEH.

Rather it was the politics of the Endangered Species Act and the Interior

Department that drove the move -- While the $50 million would have been

nice, success on Rules Committee protection could be more valuable.

The move of $5 million to the states is also useful to the overall

effort since the $18 million level included in the subcommittee report

would be such a sharp cut as to cause some state councils to go out of

business.



Finally, the Senate Labor and Human Resources Committee markup scheduled

for today was abruptly cancelled last night. As of this writing, we have

not learned why the cancellating occurred. Senate staffers agree that it

will be at least two weeks before the markup can be rescheduled. (We had

intended to report both House Appropriations and Senate authorization in

this memo.)



------------------------------



Date:  Wed, 28 Jun 1995 17:47:47 EST

From:  Beth Lee Simon  simon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU 

Subject: Re: gender vocabulary



Ellen,

If you aren't subscribed, do so, and look in the LINGUIST archives.

There have been some excellent contributions/discussions on

gender terms.



beth



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 27 Jun 1995 to 28 Jun 1995

************************************************





There are 5 messages totalling 125 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. gender vocabulary (2)

 2. gender roles (2)

 3. addresses of ADS members (was: gender vocab.)



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 29 Jun 1995 16:16:51 JST

From:  Daniel Long  dlong[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JOHO.OSAKA-SHOIN.AC.JP 

Subject: Re: gender vocabulary



You might have your student take a look at this paper.



Rudes, Blair A. and Bernard Healy. 1979. "'Is She for Real?': The

Concepts of Femaleness and Maleness in the Gay World." In Madeleine

Mathiot (ed.) Ethnolinguistics: Boas, Sapir and Whorf Revisited. The

Hague: Mouton, 49-61.



Also, a friend of mine at UC Davis is working on a PhD in the discourse

features of gay speech in Japanese. Your student might be interested in

exchanging notes with her. Her e-mail address is as follows: Naoko Ogawa

 nnogawa[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ucdavis.edu 



Danny Long



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 29 Jun 1995 04:46:03 -0400

From:  "M. Lynne Murphy"  104LYN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MUSE.ARTS.WITS.AC.ZA 

Subject: gender roles



you might have your student subscribe to the outil (out in

linguistics) list and give her(?) query. i think there's probably a

lot of stuff from the berkeley women and language conferences that

has to do with this, as well as from the lavender linguistics

conference. (i got a nice bunch of responses when i was trying to

find out about transgender language issues.)



to subscribe to outil, send a request to:

outil-request[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]csli.stanford.edu



best,

lynne



---------------------------------------------------------------------

M. Lynne Murphy              104lyn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]muse.arts.wits.ac.za

Department of Linguistics            phone: 27(11)716-2340

University of the Witwatersrand          fax: 27(11)716-8030

Johannesburg 2050

SOUTH AFRICA



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 29 Jun 1995 10:41:33 -0400

From:  Dennis R Preston  preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PILOT.MSU.EDU 

Subject: Re: gender vocabulary



There is a message from Danny Long on the list, but there is no return

e-mail address. Can he (or someone else) help?



Dennis Preston

 preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]pilot.msu.edu 



    You might have your student

take a look at this paper.  

  Rudes, Blair A. and Bernard Healy. 1979. "'Is She for Real?': The

  Concepts of Femaleness and Maleness in the Gay World." In Madeleine

  Mathiot (ed.) Ethnolinguistics: Boas, Sapir and Whorf Revisited. The

  Hague: Mouton, 49-61.

 

  Also, a friend of mine at UC Davis is working on a PhD in the discourse

  features of gay speech in Japanese. Your student might be interested in

  exchanging notes with her. Her e-mail address is as follows: Naoko Ogawa

   nnogawa[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ucdavis.edu 

 

  Danny Long

 



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 29 Jun 1995 12:04:59 -0400

From:  Jesse T Sheidlower  jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PANIX.COM 

Subject: addresses of ADS members (was: gender vocab.)



 

  There is a message from Danny Long on the list, but there is no return

  e-mail address. Can he (or someone else) help?



You can get a list of all ADS-L subscribers by sending a message

to listserv[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu containing "rev ads-l". You can then

search that file for the person you're looking for; doing so in

this case gives you:



dlong[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JOHO.OSAKA-SHOIN.AC.JP       Daniel Long



This won't work for people who subscribe anonymously, of course.



In general I do think it would be a good thing if people signed

their posts with their E-mail address to avoid having to bother

with this.



Jesse Sheidlower

Random House Reference

 jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]panix.com 



------------------------------



Date:  Thu, 29 Jun 1995 17:25:57 -0700

From:  Mary Bucholtz  bucholtz[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GARNET.BERKELEY.EDU 

Subject: Re: gender roles



On Thu, 29 Jun 1995, M. Lynne Murphy wrote:



  i think there's probably a

  lot of stuff from the berkeley women and language conferences that

  has to do with this,



I'm glad Lynne mentioned this, or I never would have gotten around to

sending this message. Yes, the Berkeley Women and Language Conference

proceedings do have some relevant papers; for more information you can

contact the Berkeley Women and Language Group at bwlg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]garnet.berkeley.edu.



Mary Bucholtz

Department of Linguistics

2337 Dwinelle Hall

University of California

Berkeley, CA 94720-2650



bucholtz[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]garnet.berkeley.edu



------------------------------



End of ADS-L Digest - 28 Jun 1995 to 29 Jun 1995

************************************************



There are 7 messages totalling 193 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



 1. Cleveland DSNA transportation

 2. queries re IPA, jig time, lay with

 3. queries re IPA, jig time, lay with -Reply

 4. gender vocabulary (2)

 5. Amelioration/Pejoration & Sex

 6. NEH again - call for action



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 30 Jun 1995 11:53:56 -0400

From:  Donna Metcalf  Ddonna[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: Re: Cleveland DSNA transportation



Nothing could be better than our entrance to the 93 DSNA: driving down the

strip in Tom Clark's hot "lexicon" convertible!



Donna Metcalf



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 30 Jun 1995 14:47:07 -0300

From:  "Terry Pratt, UPEI"  TPRATT[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UPEI.CA 

Subject: Re: queries re IPA, jig time, lay with



Have known "in jig time" all my life, beginning in Toronto.

Suspect I got it from mother, who, though Canadian of several

generations, has Irish roots, and, I have latterly discovered,

used/uses many a phrase that I thought everyone knew, but that

turn out only to be known by Irish and their descendents.

Terry Pratt

UPEI



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 30 Jun 1995 14:00:47 -0400

From:  Mark Curiale  mcuriale[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]REEDREF.COM 

Subject: Re: queries re IPA, jig time, lay with -Reply



Terry:



Heard "you better have that done 'in jig time'" from mom (Queens, NY

born and raised), and an army drill sergeant (Brooklyn, NY, bron and

raised). Go figure.



Mark Curiale

mcuriale[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]reedref.com



------------------------------



Date:  Fri, 30 Jun 1995 15:45:27 -0400

From:  Ellen Johnson  ellenj[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ATLAS.UGA.EDU 

Subject: Re: gender vocabulary



Thanks to all who responded to my query.



I had forgotten about the lavender linguistics conference. Does anyone

have an address for it? I'm sure MK would be interested.



Ellen Johnson

ellenj[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]atlas.uga.edu



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Date:  Fri, 30 Jun 1995 14:04:53 PDT

From:  tom creswell  creswell[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CROWN.NET 

Subject: Amelioration/Pejoration & Sex



Can anyone tell me the original source of the generalization, commonly made

in History of English classes, at least in my student days, that in English

nouns associated with men and horses tend to undergo melioration through

time and those associated with women and children

pejoration?-------------------------------------

Name: tom creswell

E-mail: creswell[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]dodo.crown.net (tom creswell)

Date: 06/27/95

Time: 12:24:20



This message was sent by Chameleon

-------------------------------------

 .



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Date:  Fri, 30 Jun 1995 17:41:18 -0400

From:  "Bethany Dumas, UTK"  DUMASB[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UTKVX.UTK.EDU 

Subject: Re: gender vocabulary



For Lavender Linguistics conf, e-mail:



wlm[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]american.edu



--Bethany Dumas



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Date:  Fri, 30 Jun 1995 20:48:46 -0400

From:  Allan Metcalf  AAllan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM 

Subject: NEH again - call for action



Once again, from the National Humanities alliance; FYI - Allan Metcalf



****************************



Fri, Jun 30, 1995 11:22 AM CDT

TO:   NHA Members

FR:   John Hammer & Cuc Vu



RE:   Request for Action on the Campaign to Retain NEH



ACTION REQUESTED - Congress's Independence Day break (June 30 through July

9) comes as the pace of Congressional action on appropriations and

authorizations for the National Endowment for the Humanities (NEH) and its

sister agencies the National Endowment for the Arts (NEA) and the Institute

of Museum Services (IMS) has quickened. Although there may be promising

movement on reauthorization of the endowments, appropriations in both

houses is the priority for NHA at this juncture. During July, we need to

focus on appropriations in the House and the Senate.



    HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES - The Appropriations Committee is

recommending $99.5 million for NEH (a 42% cut), $99.5 million for NEA (a

39% cut), and $21 million for IMS (a 25% cut). These are not great numbers

but do represent an enormous improvement over the 100% cuts favored by the

GOP leaders. While increases in these sums would be highly desirable,

there is virtually unanimous agreement among our friends inside and outside

Congress that an amendment to increase these budgets would be assured of

defeat on the House floor and, more importantly, such a defeat would be

damaging to our cause in a conference and to our prospects for House

support in a post conference vote. While amendments to increase are

discouraged and unlikely, there almost certainly will be amendments offered

to either cut more deeply or simply cut off funding for the endowments.

Therefore we urge that the following message be delivered BY CONSTITUENTS

to the members of the House:



Please support the Appropriations Committee's recommendations for FY-96

budgets for NEH, NEA, and IMS. Please stand firm against amendments that

would further lower the funding recommended for these agencies.



    SENATE - Now that the House Appropriations Committee has sent a

FY-96 Interior Appropriations bill forward toward the floor, the Senate

counterpart is beginning to prepare for action. Challenges for NEH

supporters include: The subcommittee chair, Slade Gorton (R-WA), has not

warmed up to the endowments, and the Budget Committee recommendations are

for continuation of the endowments but with only 50% funding. While the

appropriators are not obliged to follow the Budget Committee, the

recommendation is influential. Because the House funding level will be at

42% below present funding (or worse), it is especially important that the

Senate come forward with appropriation levels as close as possible to the

present budget levels ($177 million for NEH, $176.4 million for NEA, and

$28.7 million for IMS). Therefore, we are asking that constituents of all

Senators (except, of course, Senator Gorton) convey the following message:



Please urge Senator Gorton to include the endowments in the FY-96 Interior

Appropriations at a level as close to current funding as possible. (Note:

It is important to indicate that you recognize that Congress is involved in

an historic review of federal programs and that the endowments must take

their cuts along with the other federal program, but not

disproportionately.)



For those who care to do so, in communicating with Senators and their

staff, it would also be useful to mention that although the committee has

not completed its work, reports of the Jeffords bill indicate that it is a

very positive approach to reauthorizing the endowments.



Other information and caveats -



    o During the July 4th break, many members are back in their states

or districts. Whether or not the legislators are available, contacts with

the home offices can be very effective.

NHA can provide telephone numbers and addresses upon request.



    o Be restrained in using FAX machines -- Many legislators are

touchy about receiving lobbying messages by FAX because they complain that

the machines become clogged and these messages prevent needed information

from getting through. At NHA, we often telephone to make sure information

by FAX would be welcome.



    o Do use the telephone, personal visits, and increasingly Internet.

Not all congressional offices have e-mail but the number is rapidly

growing.



    o Please send NHA copies of letters sent on NEH issues. Also please

send us copies of responses received from legislators as they are often

useful in determining whether a legislator is moveable on an issue.



    o Regarding the arts endowment and IMS -- The NHA board has

established a policy that the alliance actively seeks to retain NEH, NEA,

and IMS as viable national resources. NHA has very profitably collaborated

with arts organizations and supporters of other cultural agencies over the

years. NHA members and their individual members are encouraged to call for

support of all three but the board recognizes that some members may prefer

to focus exclusively on the NEH.





  Cuc Vu

  National Humanities Alliance

  21 Dupont Circle, N.W. Suite 800

  Washington, D.C.  20036

   (202) 296-4994

   Internet: cuc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cni.org



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End of ADS-L Digest - 29 Jun 1995 to 30 Jun 1995

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