M. Lynne Murphy 104lyn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]muse.arts.wits.ac.za
Department of Linguistics phone: +27(11)716-2340
University of the Witwatersrand fax: +27(11)716-4199
Johannesburg 2050
SOUTH AFRICA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 13:52:48 -0500
From: "David W. Donnell" dthunder[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CONCENTRIC.NET
Subject: Re: Spanglish usage
M. Lynne Murphy
but "break" does have the
'chance/opportunity' sense as well, as in "i'm just waiting for my
big break." so, if i were to see "give me a break" on an english
poster for a contest, i'd understand "break" with the opportunity
sense just like the grocer did.
"I'm just waiting for my *lucky* break" might also be a common usage.
David W. Donnell
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:28:30 -0500
From: Margaret Ronkin ronkinm[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]GUSUN.GEORGETOWN.EDU
Subject: Re: Spanglish usage
Yes, and a great deal of successful advertising exploits the interpretive
potential/s of such 'double' or 'multiple' voicing.
Maggie
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~
On Mon, 10 Mar 1997, David W. Donnell wrote:
M. Lynne Murphy
but "break" does have the
'chance/opportunity' sense as well, as in "i'm just waiting for my
big break." so, if i were to see "give me a break" on an english
poster for a contest, i'd understand "break" with the opportunity
sense just like the grocer did.
"I'm just waiting for my *lucky* break" might also be a common usage.
David W. Donnell
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 15:37:49 -0500
From: Ron Butters RonButters[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM
Subject: Don't "Kick Them Off"
I don't agree with Dennis Preston that nonlinguists should be "kicked off"
ADS-L. I have had my share of disagreements with "dcamp[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]epix.net," and I
frankly wonder sometimes (probably unjustly) if he is capable of listening to
the sound of anybody's voice other than his own (though I confess to
occasional bouts of intellectual arrogance myself), but I keep thinking that
surely the dialogue, such as it is, at least offers the POSSIBILITY of
somebody learning something--better that 'they' read what we say and not
limit their education to the anti-intellectual propaganda of the editorial
pages THE WALL STREET JOURNAL and THE WASHINGTON TIMES.
In others words, we have an educational duty to the unenlightened public,
especially those who have been brainwashed by the conventional nonacademic
wisdom that rules this great nation. At least Mr. C and a few others who send
us their zingers are willing to talk and once in a while actually entertain
an unconventional idea, however briefly--which is more than one can say for
most of what Mr. Mencken called the boobwazee.
So--leave 'em on. Maybe it will do them good. Who knows, maybe it will even
occasionally do US good, brilliant minds and knowers of the truth that we
are!
Anyway, how would you get them off? Make 'em pass a quiz in How to Think Like
a Linguistics Professor?
I do wish that all ADS-L-ers would pay dues and join the parent organization,
but I don't think that ADS-L should be limited to those who can pay dues.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 15:42:21 -0500
From: Ron Butters RonButters[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM
Subject: GAY 'homosexual' NOT 'harlot'
someone writes, ". . . if modern 'gay' is
derived from '19th cent. 'gay = harlot, immoral' . . ."
NO WAY!!!! Modern American GAY 'homosexual' absolutely DOES NOT derive from
the Victorian slang word for prostitute. NO WAY!!!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 15:47:28 -0500
From: Ron Butters RonButters[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM
Subject: Fwd: Writing Award
Can you help with this? You may have to ask Megan--she put out the contest
announcement.
Who judges the contest?
Who wrote the regulations?
Who has the power to change the regulations?
---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: ms9[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]acpub.duke.edu (Melissa Solomon)
To: Ronbutters[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com (Ron Butters)
Date: 97-03-10 12:21:46 EST
Ron,
As per our telephone conversation this morning, please let me know if it is
possible to submit a non-fiction essay by a FOCUS UWC 7.27 student to the
English department's non-fiction writing award competition.
The essay is a humorous re-telling of history surrounding the Duke Chapel
tower, complete with (fascinating and improbable) incidents that have
taken place in the tower. The student, David Bediz, did primary research
in the Duke University Archives to complete it. It is a remarkable piece
of writing and deserves the chance to be recognized.
Thank you.
Melissa Solomon
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 16:11:28 -0500
From: Mark Mandel Mark[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]DRAGONSYS.COM
Subject: GAY 'homosexual' NOT 'harlot' -Reply
Ron Butters says vehemently:
someone writes, ". . . if modern 'gay' is derived from '19th cent. 'gay =
harlot, immoral' . . ."
NO WAY!!!! Modern American GAY 'homosexual' absolutely DOES NOT
derive from the Victorian slang word for prostitute. NO WAY!!!
All right, Ron, we're willing to believe you! But some data -- cites, related
usages, whatever -- would be helpful, not to mention more convincing.
Mark A. Mandel : Senior Linguist : mark[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]dragonsys.com
Dragon Systems, Inc. : speech recognition : +1 617 965-5200
320 Nevada St., Newton, MA 02160, USA : http://www.dragonsys.com/
Personal home page: http://world.std.com/~mam/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 13:36:34 -0800
From: "Barbara D. Nelson" bdn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SOFTBREW.COM
Subject: Re: Don't "Kick Them Off"
------ =_NextPart_000_01BC2D58.1B4C79E0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Please don't "kick them off" as "them" includes me.
I am not a linguist but do enjoy words. Have been lurking for several
months and believe this is the first time I've replied or offered an opinion.
However, I do enjoy listening to all of you and would miss the conversations,
arguments and repartee if you make me go away.
Barbara Nelson
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Butters [SMTP:RonButters[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 1997 12:38 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ADS-L
Subject: Don't "Kick Them Off"
I don't agree with Dennis Preston that nonlinguists should be "kicked off"
ADS-L. I have had my share of disagreements with "dcamp[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]epix.net," and I
frankly wonder sometimes (probably unjustly) if he is capable of listening to
the sound of anybody's voice other than his own (though I confess to
occasional bouts of intellectual arrogance myself), but I keep thinking that
surely the dialogue, such as it is, at least offers the POSSIBILITY of
somebody learning something--better that 'they' read what we say and not
limit their education to the anti-intellectual propaganda of the editorial
pages THE WALL STREET JOURNAL and THE WASHINGTON TIMES.
In others words, we have an educational duty to the unenlightened public,
especially those who have been brainwashed by the conventional nonacademic
wisdom that rules this great nation. At least Mr. C and a few others who send
us their zingers are willing to talk and once in a while actually entertain
an unconventional idea, however briefly--which is more than one can say for
most of what Mr. Mencken called the boobwazee.
So--leave 'em on. Maybe it will do them good. Who knows, maybe it will even
occasionally do US good, brilliant minds and knowers of the truth that we
are!
Anyway, how would you get them off? Make 'em pass a quiz in How to Think Like
a Linguistics Professor?
I do wish that all ADS-L-ers would pay dues and join the parent organization,
but I don't think that ADS-L should be limited to those who can pay dues.
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BC2D58.1B4C79E0--
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 17:04:01 -0500
From: TERRY IRONS t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MOREHEAD-ST.EDU
Subject: Re: Don't "Kick Them Off"
Dear ADS-Lers
While "ADS-L is a forum for the exchange of ideas and information by
members of the American Dialect Society," which I too encourage everyone
to join, I do not have the time to compare the list of members of ADS
with the list of members of this discussion group (which number 380) and
remove those who are not members of ADS, even if I had the inclination,
which I dont. I suspect Jesse feels the same, although I wont speak directly
for him.
I have been concerned somewhat with the contentious postings lately, but
it is my hope that these matters will work themselves out naturally
without the heavy handedness of Dennis' suggestion.
The list could move to request for membership rather than open
subscription, but I don't think that is a good idea either (I'd have to
learn how to do that, for one!) But I will listen to the voice of the
people if they speak otherwise.
Sincerely,
One of the listowners,
Who suffers fools lightly being occasionally one himself,
Virtually, Terry
(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)
Terry Lynn Irons t.irons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]morehead-st.edu
Voice Mail: (606) 783-5164
Snail Mail: UPO 604 Morehead, KY 40351
(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)=(*)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 17:15:40 -0500
From: Peggy Smith dj611[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU
Subject: non-members
To Mr. Dennis Preston:
Well, excuuuuuuuse me for lurking!
Peggy Smith (a high school English/theatre/speech teacher just trying
to learn a thing or two.)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 17:21:25 -0400
From: "Dennis R. Preston" preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PILOT.MSU.EDU
Subject: Re: Don't "Kick Them Off"
Bologna, Ron. Big waste of time.
Yeah, good idea. Give 'em a test. Let's see, if they think that 'greed' as
a technical term is just one of the credos of the Republican Party, then
we've got 'em and out they go (just like the stupid knights at the bridge
in Monty Python's Holy Grail).
The most recent nonsense (whose I happily forget) contained absolutely no
reference to historical linguistic (or even political) facts whatsoever.
Its author simply pukes up popular opinion, all of which we have full
access too. And, as you yourself admit in what follows, these
unsubstantiated, purely political meanderings are not the products of minds
which could be convinced by data, reference to careful studies (note EJ's
recent post), and the like.
Moreover, their presence has caused us to become wary of even one another,
in ways which I never recall happening in our face-to-face encounters, when
we are all sure of our basic credentials, which, pronbably to the amazement
of innocent and linguistically ignorant bystanders, does not necessarily
include membership in the socialist workers' party.
Kick 'em off. (Well, maybe they could stay if they pay; then I would just
grunt and ignore them like I do 90% of the time - until my Hungarian rises
out of control).
dInIs, the arrogant linguist
I don't agree with Dennis Preston that nonlinguists should be "kicked off"
ADS-L. I have had my share of disagreements with "dcamp[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]epix.net," and I
frankly wonder sometimes (probably unjustly) if he is capable of listening to
the sound of anybody's voice other than his own (though I confess to
occasional bouts of intellectual arrogance myself), but I keep thinking that
surely the dialogue, such as it is, at least offers the POSSIBILITY of
somebody learning something--better that 'they' read what we say and not
limit their education to the anti-intellectual propaganda of the editorial
pages THE WALL STREET JOURNAL and THE WASHINGTON TIMES.
In others words, we have an educational duty to the unenlightened public,
especially those who have been brainwashed by the conventional nonacademic
wisdom that rules this great nation. At least Mr. C and a few others who send
us their zingers are willing to talk and once in a while actually entertain
an unconventional idea, however briefly--which is more than one can say for
most of what Mr. Mencken called the boobwazee.
So--leave 'em on. Maybe it will do them good. Who knows, maybe it will even
occasionally do US good, brilliant minds and knowers of the truth that we
are!
Anyway, how would you get them off? Make 'em pass a quiz in How to Think Like
a Linguistics Professor?
I do wish that all ADS-L-ers would pay dues and join the parent organization,
but I don't think that ADS-L should be limited to those who can pay dues.
Dennis R. Preston
Department of Linguistics and Languages
Michigan State University
East Lansing MI 48824-1027 USA
preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]pilot.msu.edu
Office: (517)432-1235
Fax: (517)432-2736
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 17:13:41 -0500
From: "Christopher R. Coolidge" ccoolidg[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ZOO.UVM.EDU
Subject: Re: Fargo
On Fri, 7 Mar 1997, Aaron Drews wrote:
The other night I watched the movie Fargo. I thought it was pretty
good, actually.
I was wondering how true-to-life the dialects were. My only
exposure to Minnesota speech is my aunt, and she speaks very similarly to
the characters in the movie. But it's very possible that Hollywood was
taking the stereotypical Minnesota accent and exploiting it, ya?
Just curious,
Aaron
Garrison Keillor's radio program on public radio is a pretty good
indicator of regional Minnesota speech. I have several friends in the
Minneapolis area as well, and I can attest from personal experience that
people whose family has lived in rural Minnesota for several generations
do actually speak that way, though you can guarantee that Hollywood won't
get it entirely right. Fargo's definitely in the ballpark though.
(Actually, Fargo was filmed in Brainerd, MN, about an hour's drive away)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 17:27:08 -0400
From: "Dennis R. Preston" preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PILOT.MSU.EDU
Subject: Re: Fwd: Writing Award
Ron,
What is this junk? Aren't you paying attention to where you send your mail?
Let's kick Ron off too!
Kick 'em all off.
dInIs, the happy-go-lucky one
Can you help with this? You may have to ask Megan--she put out the contest
announcement.
Who judges the contest?
Who wrote the regulations?
Who has the power to change the regulations?
---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: ms9[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]acpub.duke.edu (Melissa Solomon)
To: Ronbutters[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]aol.com (Ron Butters)
Date: 97-03-10 12:21:46 EST
Ron,
As per our telephone conversation this morning, please let me know if it is
possible to submit a non-fiction essay by a FOCUS UWC 7.27 student to the
English department's non-fiction writing award competition.
The essay is a humorous re-telling of history surrounding the Duke Chapel
tower, complete with (fascinating and improbable) incidents that have
taken place in the tower. The student, David Bediz, did primary research
in the Duke University Archives to complete it. It is a remarkable piece
of writing and deserves the chance to be recognized.
Thank you.
Melissa Solomon
Dennis R. Preston
Department of Linguistics and Languages
Michigan State University
East Lansing MI 48824-1027 USA
preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]pilot.msu.edu
Office: (517)432-1235
Fax: (517)432-2736
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 17:32:25 -0400
From: "Dennis R. Preston" preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PILOT.MSU.EDU
Subject: Re: Don't "Kick Them Off"
Barbara,
We are delighted to have you lurk there, particularly since, apparently
recognizing the fact that you do not belong to the professional group
having a discussion, you do not offer 'common-sense' or worse sorts of
comments.
In my opinion, however, if you really like lurking, you should be ashamed
not to be a member of the American Dialect Society; you would get to read
even neater stuff than appears here (and no old cruds like me would be
screaming to kick you off).
dInIs
------ =_NextPart_000_01BC2D58.1B4C79E0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Please don't "kick them off" as "them" includes me.
I am not a linguist but do enjoy words. Have been lurking for several
months and believe this is the first time I've replied or offered an opinion.
However, I do enjoy listening to all of you and would miss the conversations,
arguments and repartee if you make me go away.
Barbara Nelson
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Butters [SMTP:RonButters[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 1997 12:38 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ADS-L
Subject: Don't "Kick Them Off"
I don't agree with Dennis Preston that nonlinguists should be "kicked off"
ADS-L. I have had my share of disagreements with "dcamp[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]epix.net," and I
frankly wonder sometimes (probably unjustly) if he is capable of listening to
the sound of anybody's voice other than his own (though I confess to
occasional bouts of intellectual arrogance myself), but I keep thinking that
surely the dialogue, such as it is, at least offers the POSSIBILITY of
somebody learning something--better that 'they' read what we say and not
limit their education to the anti-intellectual propaganda of the editorial
pages THE WALL STREET JOURNAL and THE WASHINGTON TIMES.
In others words, we have an educational duty to the unenlightened public,
especially those who have been brainwashed by the conventional nonacademic
wisdom that rules this great nation. At least Mr. C and a few others who send
us their zingers are willing to talk and once in a while actually entertain
an unconventional idea, however briefly--which is more than one can say for
most of what Mr. Mencken called the boobwazee.
So--leave 'em on. Maybe it will do them good. Who knows, maybe it will even
occasionally do US good, brilliant minds and knowers of the truth that we
are!
Anyway, how would you get them off? Make 'em pass a quiz in How to Think Like
a Linguistics Professor?
I do wish that all ADS-L-ers would pay dues and join the parent organization,
but I don't think that ADS-L should be limited to those who can pay dues.
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BC2D58.1B4C79E0--
Dennis R. Preston
Department of Linguistics and Languages
Michigan State University
East Lansing MI 48824-1027 USA
preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]pilot.msu.edu
Office: (517)432-1235
Fax: (517)432-2736
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 16:45:05 -0600
From: Dennis Baron debaron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UIUC.EDU
Subject: Re: Fargo
my assessment of Fargo? Pulp Fiction meets A Prairie Home Companion. As
for Trainspotting. . . . what is trainspotting, actually?
Dennis (who seems not to be getting multiple posts today! hooray!)
Dennis Baron debaron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uiuc.edu
Department of English office: 217-333-2392
University of Illinois fax: 217-333-4321
608 S. Wright Street home: 217-384-1683
Urbana, IL 61801 http://www.english.uiuc.edu/baron
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 16:45:05 -0600
From: Dennis Baron debaron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UIUC.EDU
Subject: Re: Don't "Kick Them Off"
dEnIs here, or as my midwestern spouse insists I say it, dAnIs, not dInIs:
I've been getting interested in how the new technology of ecommunication
affects our ways of determining validity and authenticity. It seems to me
the current debate on ADS-L is a good example of a subset of this problem:
ADS has been an open list since its inception. But as more and more
newcomers enter ecommunication, they begin to participate in open lists,
not only lurking but contributing. One common reaction from oldtimers is
the resentment of newbies. Add the problem of specialization into the mix,
and open hostility may result.
A list can always go closed. That is for the listowner to decide, or for
ADSers, I suppose. I don't see a real advantage to that, since for me
privacy is not an overriding consideration in using discussion lists. For
privacy, such as it is, I use direct email. But even that is never
entirely private, since Sysops always have access to our transactions.
And since "annoying posts" (which are as likely to come from members as
from outsiders) can easily be screened, I don't find them annoying either.
We are all off-topic, profoundly ignInt, and so forth, some of the time.
One advantage for staying open, of course, is to attract new members to the
American Dialect Society. I'm not sure how many have joined through this
route (any figures, AAllan?), but if our criteria for ADS membership are
interest and ability to pay our very cheap dues, and our mission involves
not just chumminess but education, then again I'm for openness.
If someone is being a deliberate bozo, ignore them and they tend to go
away. If someone wants to know, and to talk, then by all means let's us
talk.
Sorry if I'm wasting your bandwidth.
Dennis
_____
Dennis Baron debaron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uiuc.edu
Department of English office: 217-333-2392
University of Illinois fax: 217-333-4321
608 S. Wright Street home: 217-384-1683
Urbana, IL 61801 http://www.english.uiuc.edu/baron
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:48:53 -0800
From: "Barbara D. Nelson" bdn[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]SOFTBREW.COM
Subject: Re: Don't "Kick Them Off"
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Dennis Preston:
I am not a member as I am retired, housebound, and short on funds.
There are times when a little "common sense" couldn't hurt!
Barbara
This is twice!
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis R. Preston [SMTP:preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PILOT.MSU.EDU]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 1997 1:32 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ADS-L
Subject: Re: Don't "Kick Them Off"
Barbara,
We are delighted to have you lurk there, particularly since, apparently
recognizing the fact that you do not belong to the professional group
having a discussion, you do not offer 'common-sense' or worse sorts of
comments.
In my opinion, however, if you really like lurking, you should be ashamed
not to be a member of the American Dialect Society; you would get to read
even neater stuff than appears here (and no old cruds like me would be
screaming to kick you off).
dInIs
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Please don't "kick them off" as "them" includes me.
I am not a linguist but do enjoy words. Have been lurking for several
months and believe this is the first time I've replied or offered an opinion.
However, I do enjoy listening to all of you and would miss the conversations,
arguments and repartee if you make me go away.
Barbara Nelson
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Butters [SMTP:RonButters[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AOL.COM]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 1997 12:38 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ADS-L
Subject: Don't "Kick Them Off"
I don't agree with Dennis Preston that nonlinguists should be "kicked off"
ADS-L. I have had my share of disagreements with "dcamp[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]epix.net," and I
frankly wonder sometimes (probably unjustly) if he is capable of listening to
the sound of anybody's voice other than his own (though I confess to
occasional bouts of intellectual arrogance myself), but I keep thinking that
surely the dialogue, such as it is, at least offers the POSSIBILITY of
somebody learning something--better that 'they' read what we say and not
limit their education to the anti-intellectual propaganda of the editorial
pages THE WALL STREET JOURNAL and THE WASHINGTON TIMES.
In others words, we have an educational duty to the unenlightened public,
especially those who have been brainwashed by the conventional nonacademic
wisdom that rules this great nation. At least Mr. C and a few others who send
us their zingers are willing to talk and once in a while actually entertain
an unconventional idea, however briefly--which is more than one can say for
most of what Mr. Mencken called the boobwazee.
So--leave 'em on. Maybe it will do them good. Who knows, maybe it will even
occasionally do US good, brilliant minds and knowers of the truth that we
are!
Anyway, how would you get them off? Make 'em pass a quiz in How to Think Like
a Linguistics Professor?
I do wish that all ADS-L-ers would pay dues and join the parent organization,
but I don't think that ADS-L should be limited to those who can pay dues.
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BC2D58.1B4C79E0--
Dennis R. Preston
Department of Linguistics and Languages
Michigan State University
East Lansing MI 48824-1027 USA
preston[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]pilot.msu.edu
Office: (517)432-1235
Fax: (517)432-2736
------ =_NextPart_000_01BC2D62.3362F720
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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 18:29:57 -0500
From: Grant Barrett gbarrett[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JERRYNET.COM
Subject: Mencken's American Language
I'm looking to buy a copy of Mencken's American Language, but I'm not sure if there's a
particular edition I should buy.
A couple of the used bookstores here in New York have copies. The copies at Gryphon are the
like fifth edition or something plus the two separate addendum volumes released with it. Is there
a complete all-in-one volume I should be on the lookout for?
Grant Barrett
gbarrett[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]dfjp.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 19:08:42 -0500
From: Grant Barrett gbarrett[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JERRYNET.COM
Subject: New Subscriber Rules
Before new subscribers can be added to the ADS List, they must meet the following
requirements. These rules go into effect immediately.
1. Define mangel-wurzel and explain how to extract sugar from it. Extra points if you can send
us a soup recipe.
2. Explain what "Dey teef meh quats dem" means to Crucians. You automatically become a
qualified ADS-L subscriber if you offer to fund a "fact-finding" mission to the appropriate part
of the Caribbean and take at least 20 current members with you.
3. Agree to not use the suffix -onics in any post.
4. Agree to refrain from encouraging Barry Popik from posting another dialog with famous
people, dead or alive, he has never met.
5. Explain: What are sulfa powders and which of the following is responsible for their demise:
Big Business, Big Government, Big Bird, Media Elite, Silent Majority or Moral Majority?
6. Explain: Which end of the body does a stellectomy administer to and why?
7. Satisfactorily explain why "flammable" and "inflammable" are not synonymous.
8. Explain: Who is Jesse T. Sheidlower and why is his latest reference work not included in
many school libraries?
9. Explain: Why doesn't one give gifts of Scotch to a shikker?
10. Develop and evangelize a successful way of expressing emotions, gestures and nuance via
email without using smilies or emoticons.
11. Explain: Was there really anything wrong with Ford Pintos or was it the shape of the car
people disliked?
12. Please explain why retailers like the phrase "March Madness", why radio stations like the
word "Rocktober", why newspapers like the headline "Send in the Clones" and why the catch
phrase "Show me the Money" is about ten years behind the decade that really needed it.
Please submit your answers to the Live Aboard Mailing List and as soon as everyone returns
from their circumnavigations someone will respond.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 18:09:27 -0500
From: Leslie Dunkling 106407.3560[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]COMPUSERVE.COM
Subject: Give me a break, etc
Rose Nash: "I thought that the English expression "Give me a break"
referred literally to a coffee break or other work interruption."
The more usual suggestion is that it derives from the pool hall, and the
breaking of the balls at the start of a game.
The poem quoted by Donald M. Lance reflected Cockney hypercorrection.
Because Cockneys also regularly tend to drop an initial "h", they are
likely to add one that doesn't exist. Hence:
The Letter H's Protest to the Cockneys
Whereas by you I 'ave been driven
From 'ouse, from 'ome, from 'ope, from 'eaven,
And placed by your most learned society
In Hexile, Hanguish, and Hanxiety,
Nay, charged without one just pretence
With Harrogance and Himpudence,
I here demand full restitution,
And beg you'll mend you Hellocution.
quoted in _A Whimsey Anthology_, collected by Carolyn Wells, Charles
Scribner's Sons, New York, 1906
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 20:30:15 -0500
From: Jesse T Sheidlower jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PANIX.COM
Subject: Re: Mencken's American Language
I'm looking to buy a copy of Mencken's American Language, but I'm not sure if there's a
particular edition I should buy.
A couple of the used bookstores here in New York have copies. The copies at Gryphon are the
like fifth edition or something plus the two separate addendum volumes released with it. Is there
a complete all-in-one volume I should be on the lookout for?
The edition you'll probably want, unless you're a desperately serious
Mencken scholar (which I encourage), is the one-volume abridged edition
of 1963, edited by R. I. McDavid. If you're hard-core, you'll also want
the fourth edition of 1936 along with both supplement volumes. If you
know that you also want the first, second, and third editions, you
probably don't need to ask about it here.
Jesse Sheidlower
jester[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]panix.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 20:39:10 -0500
From: T&FE1V1&C1&D2S0=0S7=60 aa276988[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OAK.CATS.OHIOU.EDU
Subject: Prosodic features of dialect
I am interested in looking at the prosodic features of a couple of
dialects; however, I'm having a hard time finding other studies devoted to
this area of dialectology. In fact, I don't know of any studies which have
examined this area. Does anyone know of any that they may suggest? I'd be
happy to post the results of this posting.
I can be reached at aa276988[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]oak.cats.ohiou.edu
Thanks in advance,
Ashlea Allen
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 19:55:00 -0500
From: Leslie Dunkling 106407.3560[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]COMPUSERVE.COM
Subject: Lurking
I asked my friend Will Shakespeare what he thought about this lurking
business. He told me to look into _The Rape of Lucrece_ around line 848.
There's no doubt that he's on the side of paid-up ADS members:
Why should the worm intrude the maiden bud?
Or hateful cuckoos hatch in sparrows' nests?
Or toads infect fair founts with venom mud?
Or tyrant folly LURK in gentle breasts?
He then adds a footnote:
But no perfection is so absolute,
That some impurity doth not pollute.
Opinions will always differ about what constitutes "impurity," and as a
contributor to this list recently implied, it could in any case come from
within as well as from outside. Surely the converse is true, and lurkers
(at least occasionally) play their part in maintaining the generally high
level of interest the ADS -list is fortunate enough to enjoy?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 21:50:23 -0800
From: Alan Baragona baragonasa[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]VAX.VMI.EDU
Subject: Re: Questions about immigrants' learning of English
At 12:08 AM 3/10/97 -0500, ALICE FABER wrote:
to what extent do adult working class immigrants acquire competence
in spoken English, let along in written English of the sort necessary to cope
with written forms?
Based on what I know of the Jewish immigrant experience in the late 19th and
early 20th centuries (in part from stories told in my own family), my
suspicion is that members of the immigrating generation often did not achieve
any degree of competence in English.
This is certainly true of my paternal grandparents in New Jersey. They came
to this country before WWI, lived all their lives in various "Little Italys"
just across the river from NY, and learned almost no English at all. My
grandmother lived into her 80's, died in 1959, and survived because
everybody in Cliffside Park spoke Italian. She and I could not communicate
except through signs and facial expressions (mostly smiles). All her
children, however, learned English and, in fact, lost most of their Italian
by the time they grew up and left town.
Alan Baragona
alan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]vmi.edu
You know, years ago, my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this
world, Elwood, you must be . . ."--she always called me 'Elwood'--"In this
world, Elwood, you must be oh, so smart or oh, so pleasant." Well, for
years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. And you may quote me.
Elwood P. Dowd
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 12:09:41 +0900
From: Daniel Long dlong[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]JOHO.OSAKA-SHOIN.AC.JP
Subject: Re: Don't "Kick Them Off"
Perhaps this would be a good time to point out to everyone that the
American Dialect Society has a website. You can get information about
the ADS (including membership info) there. FYI: The address has changed
recently, and it looks real spiffy.
http://humanities.byu.edu/humstudents/lillie/ads/index.htm
Danny Long
(Dr.) Daniel Long, Associate Professor
Japanese Language Research Center
Osaka Shoin Women's College
4-2-26 Hishiyanishi
Higashi-Osaka-shi, Osaka Japan 577
tel and fax +81-6-729-1831
email dlong[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]joho.osaka-shoin.ac.jp
http://www.age.or.jp/x/oswcjlrc/index-e.htm
------------------------------
End of ADS-L Digest - 9 Mar 1997 to 10 Mar 1997
***********************************************
Subject: ADS-L Digest - 10 Mar 1997 to 11 Mar 1997
There are 22 messages totalling 1649 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. mapping dialect spread (2)
2. recently attested items (3)
3. to: people who wrote to me yesterday
4. All purpose arguments
5. Quebec language & law (3)
6. paper on origin of GAY
7. Fwd: Writing Award
8. common sense
9. Immigrants' learning of English (4)
10. Word frequency list?
11. mapping dialect spread -Reply (2)
12. Word frequencies
13. consonant frequency
----------------------------------------