Date:     Mon, 2 Nov 1992 18:08:13 CST

From: ENGDL%MIZZOU1.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu

Subject:   Re: Kilroy is still here.



I noticed Kilroy on the TIME cover and liked the touch of history. Who better

than Ross? Would Gore have worked as Kilroy? Marrou? Bush?

To all ADS-Listees and -Listers:

 Some time ago someone wondered "out loud" whether anyone was making copies

of our ADS-L pearls for Allan Metcalf. I spoke with him on the phone yesterday

and he hadn't heard from anyone regarding the proposal (not even from me). He

thought it would be a good idea for someone to systematically send him print-

outs, for archival purposes if for no immediately practical reason.

 Natalie, do you have a master file, or do our pearly words evanesce? Maybe

someone will volunteer (you notice I haven't done so). DMLance, U of MO



Date:     Mon, 2 Nov 1992 21:55:30 CST

From: "Natalie Maynor" <maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU>

Subject:   Re: Kilroy is still here.



>  Natalie, do you have a master file, or do our pearly words evanesce? Maybe

> someone will volunteer (you notice I haven't done so). DMLance, U of MO



Alas, our pearly words so far have evanesced unless somebody has been keeping

copies. I haven't been. If nobody else volunteers, I'll start keeping them

now.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)

Date:     Tue, 3 Nov 1992 14:42:54 CST

From: ENGDL%MIZZOU1.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu

Subject:   Re: the



Please, not snottiness. It's snootines.

When I go to Haden House, I might say "I'll have the brisket" or "I'll have

the Cornish game hen" but probably not "I'll have the barbecued chicken."

At Katy Station I might say "I'll have the steamed vegetable plate" but not

"I'll have the KC strip." I think there's a tendency for one to use the

definite article with specialty items in any restaurant. I think at one

specific time I very likely said "I'll have the McLean."

 The snooty places give specialty names to all dishes so that they're singled

out. I don't feel that the definiteness is directed toward ME.

                     DMLance, U of MO

Date:     Wed, 4 Nov 1992 11:05:55 CST

From: "(Dennis Baron)" <baron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UX1.CSO.UIUC.EDU>

Subject:   so don't I; not



I just came across the following usage note in Scott & Denny,

*ELementary English Composition* (Boston: Allyn and Bacon, 1906),

p. 254. It suggests an early analogue of *so don't I* and post-

sentential not, and an early controversy over the issue that I

was unaware of:



  *I don't think.*  A prejudice has arisen against this harmless form

  of speech because of its misuse in such sentences as, "I shan't go

  to town to-day, I don't think." It is also used ironically in the

  slang expression, "Oh, he's all right, I don't think." But such

  expressions as "I don't think I shall go to town," "I don't think

  he is all right," are unobjectionable.



---

Dennis

Dennis Baron       (\           debaron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uiuc.edu

Dept. of English     \'\         office: 217-333-2392

University of Illinois   \'\    ________  fax: 217-333-4321

608 S. Wright St      / '|   ()_______)

Urbana IL 61801      \ '/   \~~~~~~ \

               \     \~~~~~~ \

               ==).    \_______\

              (__)     ()_______)

Date:     Mon, 9 Nov 1992 11:32:44 CST

From: "(Dennis Baron)" <baron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UX1.CSO.UIUC.EDU>

Subject:   I don't think, not



I was reading P.G. Wodehouse last night and came across the following

example of the slang "I don't think." It's from "Buried Treasure," in

the collection *The Crime Wave at Blandings* (NY: Book League of

America, 1937), pp. 197-98. Learning of his beloved Muriel's engagement

to another, Brancepeth says, "A nice surprise that was to spring on a

chap, was it not? A jolly way of saying `Welcome to Rumpling Hall,'

I don't think."



Mencken identifies this use of "I don't think" as slang in *The

American Language* 4e, p. 566, and in Supp. ii, 643; 645. It is

the kind of phrase, he says, that lasts but four or five years. The

reference does not occur in 3e, 2e, or 1e, so it was obviously in use

in the mid 1930s.



But it was evanescent slang, I don't think. In addition to the cite

from Scott and Denny I posted earlier (1906), I managed to turn up

the following letter from Fred Newton Scott in *Nation* 65 (1897):12--



Scott reports here that his students at Michigan had been taught earlier

that "I don't think" is always incorrect. He says, "Asked what is

wrong with the expression, they reply, in one unvarying formula: "If I

do think, I mustn't say I *don't* think." Scott connects this prejudice

to the slang "I don't think" as in "He will get there, I don't think,"

which he notes is sometimes abbreviated "I.d.t.", and with the

"ungrammatical" use, as in "He isn't handsome, I don't think." It seems

that an attempt to make language logical also comes into play. All this

evidence suggests not only a thriving if limited use of "I don't think"

in the late 19th c., but also a division of usage into three strands:

unobjectionable, slang, and ungrammatical. The persistance of the usage

into the 1930s suggests it is not *evanescent* slang, and that it is

related to today's postsentential *not.*  *So don't I* suggests the

"ungrammatical" *I don't think* is also idiomatic and of long enough

duration.



Dennis

Dennis Baron       (\           debaron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uiuc.edu

Dept. of English     \'\         office: 217-333-2392

University of Illinois   \'\    ________  fax: 217-333-4321

608 S. Wright St      / '|   ()_______)

Urbana IL 61801      \ '/   \~~~~~~ \

               \     \~~~~~~ \

               ==).    \_______\

              (__)     ()_______)



Date:     Mon, 9 Nov 1992 09:53:16 MST

From: Daniel Brink <ATDXB%ASUACAD.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu>

Subject:   Re: I don't think, not



I have used the expression 'I don't think' quite regularly, and, until

now, blissfully unaware of the usage issue swirling around it. I would

say that I can only use it following an explicitly negative assertion

of opinion and not in the way used in two of Dennis' three examples;

thus, 'He's not very good at this task, I don't think', but not: *'He's

good at what he does, I don't think."



Thus, I find Dennis' literary example (Wodehouse) very odd (although

vaguely possible because of the irony involved), and 'But it was

evanescent slang, I don't think' as unacceptable, because the 'I don't

think' changes the sense from positive to negative, whereas the point

is that you are postposing 'I think' in structures like:



1  I think, he is not happy > He is not happy, I think



but getting it confused with neg raising:



2  I think, he is not happy > I don't think, he is happy



and producing a usage problem because of the double negative,

because the 'I don't think' of 2 gets postposed to the sub clause

He is not happy of 1.



I suspect that the sub clause of 1 must be used, even though 2 has

applied, because the sentence MUST be negative.



All this, of course, in MY dialect, not Wodehouse or others. But it is

not like the postposed 'not' of current popularity, I don't think.



=========================================

Daniel Brink, Professor of English

Arizona State University, Tempe 85287-0302

602/965-4182o 602/965-3168m 602/965-2012f

Internet: ATDXB[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU

Date:     Tue, 10 Nov 1992 10:27:56 CST

From: "(Dennis Baron)" <baron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UX1.CSO.UIUC.EDU>

Subject:   I don't think, not



Here's probably my last post on *I don't think*:



OED, s.v. *think*, III.9.b. labels this slang, "used after an ironical

statement, to indicate that the reverse is intended."



cites from Dickens (Pickwick) 1837: "You're a amiably-disposed young man,

sir, I don't think," resumed Mr. Weller, in a tone of moral reproof."

Other cites from 1853, 1857, 1911. OED2 does not have more recent

cites, though clearly the form persists in the ironic sense through

the 1930s.



Dennis

Dennis Baron       (\           debaron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uiuc.edu

Dept. of English     \'\         office: 217-333-2392

University of Illinois   \'\    ________  fax: 217-333-4321

608 S. Wright St      / '|   ()_______)

Urbana IL 61801      \ '/   \~~~~~~ \

               \     \~~~~~~ \

               ==).    \_______\

              (__)     ()_______)

Date:     Wed, 11 Nov 1992 20:18:00 EST

From: "James_C.Stalker" <STALKER[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MSU.EDU>

Subject:   I don't think, not



My son (15 years old) uses "I don't think so" with heavier stress than normal

on 'think' as an alternative to "not." In fact, "I don't think so" preceded

his use of "not" by at least a couple of years. I checked with him, and he

confirmed the usage, and that he still uses "I don't think so." Just today he

was Dominoes Pizza person was going to get here within the allotted 30

minutes. His comment was approximately this: "The Dominoes guy is going to get

her in two minutes? I don't think so! Not!" He used both.

Date:     Thu, 12 Nov 1992 09:35:00 CDT

From: Luanne von Schneidemesser <LUANNEVONS[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MACC.WISC.EDU>

Subject:   IPA font



    I am starting a search for an IPA font to use

on DOS machines with a laser printer. Can any of you make

recommendations or offer opinions? Thanks.



            Luanne von Schneidemesser

            DARE

            luannevons[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]macc.wisc.edu



Date:     Thu, 12 Nov 1992 10:50:51 EST

From: Bill Kretzschmar <WAKJENGL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu>

Subject:   Re: IPA font



Luanne, You are welcome to our bit-mapped font sets from the Atlas project (as

is anybody else). Installation may be a problem, though, depending on the

word-processor or other program you use to do the printing. The fonts are

arranged in a binary file that can be downloaded to a laser printer (we use

HP LaserJet II and III) by the DOS copy command.



Bill Kretzschmar, UGA



Date:     Thu, 12 Nov 1992 10:35:30 MST

From: Daniel Brink <ATDXB%ASUACAD.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu>

Subject:   Re: IPA font



A possible solution to the IPA font request of a while ago is:



LaserIPM for Windows, which comes in either type I or TrueType

formats, both scalable. Their blurb says, in part: "Professional

quality, IPA fonts, TrueType (Windows), or Type I (Adobe TM),

includes manual, etc., etc. Producer: Linguist's Software,

PO Box 580 Edmonds, WA 98020-0580, 206/775-1130, 206/771-5911 (fax).



The basic package is about $100.00, but there are a number of

educational and site discounts, depending on your needs.



There is also a Mac version.



We are happy with this product.



=========================================

Daniel Brink, Professor of English

Arizona State University, Tempe 85287-0302

602/965-4182o 602/965-3168m 602/965-2012f

Internet: ATDXB[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU



Date:     Thu, 12 Nov 1992 11:09:11 MST

From: Daniel Brink <ATDXB%ASUACAD.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu>

Subject:   Re: IPA font



In my recent note on IPA fonts, I talked about a product call

LaserIPA, but I called it something else; it's LaserIPA. The

rest of the info in that note was correct, as far as I am

aware. Sorry for the confusion.



=========================================

Daniel Brink, Professor of English

Arizona State University, Tempe 85287-0302

602/965-4182o 602/965-3168m 602/965-2012f

Internet: ATDXB[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU

Date:     Fri, 13 Nov 1992 10:34:18 EST

From: EJPHILL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ENGFAC.INDSTATE.EDU

Subject:   ipa font



We have just ordered and hence don't know yet how well it works an

IPA software package from M.A.P. Systems, Inc., 18100 Upper Bay Road,

Suite 100, Houston, TX 77058. Fax 713-333-9579, phone 800-527-2851.

The highlight blurb says: "International Phonetic Alphaabet (1989)

software available! Versions of Lines, Boxes, Etc. for Word Perfect

5.1 and Type, See, & Print software for non-Word Perfect users are

provided phonetic character users with 146 characters and diacritics.

With the LBE version for WordPerfect, mix IPA characters with LBE's

Hebrew, Greek, Cyrillic, and Multilingual characters."



Good luck.



Betty Phillips, Indiana State U., Eng. Dept.

Date:     Tue, 17 Nov 1992 12:31:00 CDT

From: Beth Lee Simon <BLSIMON[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MACC.WISC.EDU>

Subject:   irish mail



is anyone familiar with an irish mail or irish mailcar? did you have one?

every drive or ride one? as of when? thanks, beth simon at DARE

blsimon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]macc.wisc.edu



Date:     Tue, 17 Nov 1992 15:15:00 EST

From: "James_C.Stalker" <STALKER[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MSU.EDU>

Subject:   irish mail



I had an irish mail in about 1946 or so. It was a pedal car type of vehicle,

longish, four wheels, two pedals toward the front which drove the rear wheels,

steering on the front wheels, basically a metal frame with a wooden seat. I

lived in Louisville, KY then and was a native of that city until 1958.

  Is that enough or do you need more?

Date:     Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:11:00 EST

From: "James_C.Stalker" <STALKER[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MSU.EDU>

Subject:   irish mail



As I recover my memory, through my muscles as well as my brain, I must retract

the pedal description. In fact, it was hand pumped with handlebars, which

drove the back wheels. My wife, upon reflection, remembers something called

an Irish wagon, but it was a vehicle large enough to carry two people,

somewhere between a riding lawn mower and a golf cart. It was also propelled

by pumping front handle bar type cranks. If my memory serves, I also used

Irish wagon as well as Irish mail for the child's vehicle that I rode.

Date:     Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:36:55 CST

From: BADHMIM%ECNUXA.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu

Subject:   Re:   Re: mergers before /l/ in English dialects.



I didn't suggest looking at PEAS. I suggested looking at the atlas data. Most

Date:     Sat, 21 Nov 1992 09:18:00 EST

From: "Dennis.Preston" <22709MGR%MSU.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu>

Subject:   Re:   Re: mergers before /l/



Did many others (like me) get a message from Alice Faber which did not make it

past the first line?

Dennis Preston

Date:     Sun, 22 Nov 1992 22:12:00 EST

From: "James_C.Stalker" <STALKER[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MSU.EDU>

Subject:   Re:   Re: mergers before /l/



yes

Date:     Mon, 23 Nov 1992 12:07:00 CDT

From: Luanne von Schneidemesser <LUANNEVONS[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MACC.WISC.EDU>

Subject:   messages



Dennis -

    How did you know the cut-off message was from Alice Faber? Since all

FROM information is simply ads-l, if a person doesn't sign the message you

can't get back to them. Is anyone else frustrated by this?



Date:     Mon, 23 Nov 1992 15:27:00 EST

From: "Dennis.Preston" <22709MGR%MSU.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu>

Subject:   messages



I get messages which (following FROM) give the name and address of the

original sender. This

automatic reply' is sent back to ADS-L as a result of its being identified in

the Reply-to' field of our operation here at MSU. Hence, I knew even a cut-off

message was from Alice Faber. I do understand, however, that not all systems

operate the same way and that it would be a very good idea for message senders

to identify themselves. Saying that, I am Dennis R. Preston, Linguistics MSU

(22709mgr[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]msu.bitnet)



Date:     Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:14:00 EST

From: "Dennis.Preston" <22709MGR%MSU.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu>

Subject:   Re: messages



If our system is a mistake (which identifies the original sender but sends

answers automatically back to the forwarding group), I love the error. I can

extract the individual's address for a personal response or just return mail

to the group. I doubt if it is exclusively MSU's

error,' however, since mail from the LINGUIST network does not come that way.

(In short lower-level creatures are at work.)

Dennis Preston (22709mgr[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]msu.bitnet)



Date:     Mon, 23 Nov 1992 14:58:53 CST

From: Natalie Maynor <maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU>

Subject:   Re: messages



> From: Luanne von Schneidemesser <LUANNEVONS[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MACC.WISC.EDU>

>

> Dennis -

>     How did you know the cut-off message was from Alice Faber? Since all

> FROM information is simply ads-l, if a person doesn't sign the message you

> can't get back to them. Is anyone else frustrated by this?



That's a problem with the mail program on your system. Most people see

the name of the sender in the "from" line.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



Date:     Mon, 23 Nov 1992 19:30:14 CST

From: Natalie Maynor <maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU>

Subject:   Re: messages



> If our system is a mistake (which identifies the original sender but sends

> answers automatically back to the forwarding group), I love the error. I can



Mail leaves the listserv with the "from" line identifying the original

sender. If it's not there when the mail reaches you, it's because your

system lopped it off.



The "reply-to" line can be set by the listowner. The default setting (and

the best setting IMHO) is for the reply to go to the list.



> error,' however, since mail from the LINGUIST network does not come that way.



LINGUIST is moderated. Instead of being distributed automatically, the

postings are sent to the moderators, who compile them into bundles before

sending them out.



> (In short lower-level creatures are at work.)



ADS-L is somewhat unusual in having a dog as co-owner. As far as I know,

only one other e-mail list has such an honor -- same co-owner, in fact:

Bernard Chien Perro.

  --Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)



Date:     Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:00:00 CDT

From: Beth Lee Simon <BLSIMON[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MACC.WISC.EDU>

Subject:   please give your address or name or SOMETHING



My from line tels me the message is from the ADS list. I ask about something

over the list, I receive an unsigned response, and then when I send a

message asking who sent the response, and I need to know because I'm usu

inquiring with an eye to region or soc, or preference or something the

address would tell me, THEN i get THREE unsigned responses.

please, sing.

imean sign.

thanks, grumpily yours, blsimon[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]macc.wisc.edu

beth simon



Date:     Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:09:10 CST

From: Salikoko Mufwene <mufw[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU>

Subject:   Re: messages



You didn't sign your name but I could tell from the identification

information that the originator of this message is Luanne von

Schneidermesser. It all may depend on the kind of machine/system used on

your network.

 Mufwene.

Date:     Tue, 24 Nov 1992 08:46:42 -0500

From: "David Bergdahl (614) 592-1617" <BERGDAHL%OUACCVMB.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu>



Subject: LOST MESSAGES



I've noticed on our system that when the end of a message is cropped off

that if I use the "RECEIVE" command to place it in a notebook, and then

open it with Xedit, that the full file exists even though the reader

registers "********End of file*********" If you're losing signature

lines because of this, try saving the file.



David Bergdahl Ohio University/Athens "Gateway to West Virginia"

BERGDAHL at OUACCVMB

**********************************************************************



Date:     Tue, 24 Nov 1992 10:21:29 CST

From: Dennis Baron <baron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UX1.CSO.UIUC.EDU>

Subject:   signature file



Most mail programs, whether pc or mac based, like Popmail or Eudora,

or Unix-based, like Mail or Elm, allow you to add a prefab signature

file automatically to any outgoing correspondence. See you documentation

or ask your guru how to do this. It's fairly easy, and if you want to

spend several days fooling around with it, you can even add silly little

graphics, like I did, instead of doing the work I was supposed to do.



Dennis



--

Dennis Baron       (\           debaron[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uiuc.edu

Dept. of English     \'\         office: 217-333-2392

University of Illinois   \'\    ________  fax: 217-333-4321

608 S. Wright St      / '|   ()_______)

Urbana IL 61801      \ '/   \~~~~~~ \

               \     \~~~~~~ \

               ==).    \_______\

              (__)     ()_______)



Date:     Tue, 24 Nov 1992 10:58:48 -0500

From: Cinzia Knight <SSTSCEK%VCUVM1.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu>

Subject:   list content



HI,



I am new to this list and I am beginning to wonder what it is all



about. So far all I see are discussions on mailers etc. and I am



beginning to think this list should be renamed to american mailers list:



how to send and read your mail. Is there normally little activity on



the true subject of the list??



  +----------------------------------------------------------------+

  | Cinzia Giacometti Knight       Technical Services   |

  | Virginia Commonwealth University   Computer Center     |

  | 110 South 7th Street, 4th Floor   Phone: (804) 786-4829 |

  | Richmond, VA 23219  USA       Bitnet: SSTSCEK[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]VCUVM1 |

Date:     Thu, 26 Nov 1992 11:50:00 -0500

From: /S=SCHNEIDER/G=EDGAR/I=EWS./[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PHILOLOGIE.FU-BERLIN.DBP.DE

Subject:   AmE bibliography



Some of you may know our z~"Bibliography

of Writings on Varieties of English, 1965-

1983" (Viereck/Schneider/Goerlach, Amsterd Nam ~ ~x:~~~}

xBenjamins 1984). An update is now bein

preparedI, zand I have just completed a pre

preliminary version of my part on American and Canadian English.

I`d be happy to share this with anybody interested

and ask for corrections, criticism, additions, etc.

At present, the whole thing comprises about

700 titles (check whether yours are in correctly!)

and takes about 100KBYtes. If you want the file,

write me at:

SCHNEIDERatPHILOLOGIE.FU-BERLIN.BITNET

Edgar W. Schneider, Freie Universitaet Berlin

Date:     Fri, 27 Nov 1992 09:12:00 CST

From: TB0EXC1%NIU.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu

Subject:   Re: AmE bibliography



E W Schneider:



I would very much appreciate a copy of the preliminary

version of the Varieties of English biblio. I don't

know if a file that big can be handled by my bitnet

facility, but let's try it.



Thankss



Edward Callary

TB0EXC1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NIU



Date:     Fri, 27 Nov 1992 11:33:59 MST

From: Marianna Di Paolo <dipaolo[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ANTHRO.UTAH.EDU>

Subject:   Re: AmE bibliography



(Sorry for sending this message to the ADS-L; I tried to

send it directly to Edgar Schneider, but it didn't work.)



Please send me the update of "Bibliography of Writings on Varieties of

English". Thank you.



Marianna Di Paolo

dipaolo[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]anthro.utah.edu



Date:     Fri, 27 Nov 1992 14:45:31 EST

From: Boyd Davis <FEN00BHD%UNCCVM.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu>

Subject:   E. Schneider's kind offer



Like M diP, I also could not send a message directly to Edgar Schneider -

and I also would be very grateful for the bibliography.



Boyd Davis   fen00bhd at unccvm  OR fen00bhd at unccvm.uncc.edu

Date:     Sat, 28 Nov 1992 07:51:43 -0600

From: ARS7950%TNTECH.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu

Subject:   Re: E. Schneider's kind offer



As with others, I too would like the updated bibliography offered by

Schneider.



Alan Slotkin ars7950[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]tntech.bitnet



Date:     Sat, 28 Nov 1992 09:15:00 CST

From: TB0EXC1%NIU.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu

Subject:   bibliography



And I would appreciate receiving the AE biblio.

Edwar

TB0EXC1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NIU



Date:     Sat, 28 Nov 1992 10:14:45 EST

From: Sheila <EMBLETON[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]VM1.YORKU.CA>

Subject:   Re: E. Schneider's kind offer



It seems that so many people want Schneider's bibliography, and so many people

are having trouble contacting him directly, that it might be sensible for him s

imply to post it on this list. Those who don't want it could pretty easily simp

ly delete it...



Sheila Embleton

York University, Toronto

Date:     Mon, 30 Nov 1992 08:52:00 CST

From: TB0EXC1%NIU.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu

Subject:   british invasion II



Several weeks ago, on CNN headline news, the sports

announcer said 'The Tampa Bay Lightning play their

first game this evening.' Like chalk on a blackboard,

this usage piqued my sensitivities; I can't recall

hearing a plural pronoun used with what most Americans

would see as a singular antecedent before. Is this

Briticism creeping into American English much like

'tarmac' did in the 1980s? Has anyone heard other

instances, in other contexts?



Edward Callary

Northern Illinois University



Date:     Mon, 30 Nov 1992 07:56:31 MST

From: Daniel Brink <ATDXB%ASUACAD.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu>

Subject:   Re: british invasion II



The Tampa Bay Lightning play (!) . . .



I would suspect the influence of the Tampa Bay BucaneerS, the

Atlanta FalconS, 'Da BearS', . . . the common practice of plurals

for team names . . ., rather than British practice in this case;

there are, however, a growing number of singular team names (Heat,

Cardinal). It will be interesting to see what happens when only

the mascot name (the Lightning, the Cardinal, . . .) is used as

subject. My feeling is that, with an abbreviated subject, it is

a little harder to accept plural agreement. And what about the

reverse (The 49ers is . . .)? Impossible, right? But 'San Francisco

is' is the only choice (isn't it?).



=========================================

Daniel Brink, Professor of English

Arizona State University, Tempe 85287-0302

602/965-4182o 602/965-3168m 602/965-2012f

Internet: ATDXB[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU



Date:     Mon, 30 Nov 1992 10:27:26 -0500

From: meyer%umbsky.dnet[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]NS.UMB.EDU

Subject:   Re: british invasion II



Even in American practice, if a collective noun is perceived not as

a single unit but as a group of individuals, then the plural is

acceptable. And it appears that teams are perceived as units, even

if the name is singular:



The Red Sox are attempting to sign Kirby Puckett.



In fact, I would find a singular verb quite unacceptable with a team

name.



Charles Meyer

University of Massachusetts at Boston

meyer[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]cs.umb.edu



Date:     Mon, 30 Nov 1992 18:37:00 GMT

From: ENG0997[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]VAX2.QUEENS-BELFAST.AC.UK

Subject:   RE: AmE bibliography



1. Edgar's email number is:

SCHNEIDER[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]PHILOLOGIE.FU-BERLIN.DBP.DE

and if that's on bitnet, then add whatever's needed.



2. I wonder whether preliminary versions of the British/Irish

part are to be circulated in advance too.



John Kirk



Date:     Mon, 30 Nov 1992 10:52:29 -0800

From: AKAYE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]FULLERTON.EDU

Subject:   Re: AmE bibliography



I, like Marianna Di Paolo, tried to send my request for the bibliog. directly

to Schneider, but it was returned. BITNET is very confusing abroad.

Thus, I hope he will be notified that I am interersted in it.

Thanks. --Alan Kaye-- CSU, Fullerton, CA 92634



Date:     Mon, 30 Nov 1992 19:07:00 GMT

From: ENG0997[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]VAX2.QUEENS-BELFAST.AC.UK

Subject:   Concise Ulster Dictionary



Can anyone confirm my hunch that sales of the Concise Ulster Dictionary

- currently in very active preparation at the Ulster Folk Museum

under the fill-time editorship of Caroline Macafee, and to be published

in 1995, and similar in size and entry scope to the Concise Scots

Dictionary - will be as many in North America as there will be in

Ulster itself?



As I see it, the populaton of the US and Canada equals approx. 300 million.

Some 40 milion we hear claim irish descent. The population of Ulster is

1.5 million. If the first print run were 5,000, what are the chances of

2,500 copies being sold through North America? My hunch is 'very likely'

- maybe within the first year??



How far does anyone think sales in North America could be affected/

influenced by publisher - for comparison - say - Oxford UP versus

the Ulster Folk Museum itself or the Quen's University Institute of

Irish Studies, all options being seriously considered.



Any help or advise will be appreciated, to strengthen my arm against

a very Ulster 'and proud of it' advisory board who wish to see the

dictionary an entirely local affair.



With thanks

John Kirk

(Member of Editorial Board and Advisory Board to the Ulster Dialect

Dictionary Project)



Date:     Mon, 30 Nov 1992 14:23:19 -0500

From: "Kim S. Campbell" <KCAMPBEL[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]AFIT.AF.MIL>

Subject:   british invasion II (SMTP Id#: 20665) -



It seems plausible that the usage here reflects the usage of

simplified or reduced registers (e.g., Note-taking [Janda 1985]

or Sports Announcer Talk [Ferguson 1983]) in which aux verbs are

deleted (along with their morphological markings for tense,

person, number, etc.).



The Tampa Bay Lightning [will] play their first game this

evening.

(a1) Teenager will play...

(a2)*Teenager play...

(b1) Teenagers will play...

(b2) Teenagers play...



So then is this deletion possible only when the subject can be

construed as plural?



Date:     Mon, 30 Nov 1992 16:05:00 EST

From: "Dennis.Preston" <22709MGR%MSU.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu>

Subject:   british invasion II



Don't be so quick to assume a British invasion. Note that the team name

(Lightning) is a non-count noun (like the Miami Heat). I have noticed many

announcers using `Heat' plus variable (i.e. -s or non -s marked) present tense

verb. Heat' (and `Lightning') are unlike `team' or committee' (mass versus

collective) nouns where the essential British-American contrast comes into

play. Dennis Preston (22709mgr[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]msu.bitnet)

.