Thomas L. Clark English Department UNLV 89154
tlc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]nevada.edu
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 00:15:38 -0500
From: "Gregory J. Pulliam" HUMPULLIAM[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MINNA.ACC.IIT.EDU
Subject: longhandles
The cold weather is here in Chicago, and my thoughts have turned to long
underwear, which, in my youth in NE Mississippi (Aberdeen) I learned to refer
to as "long-handles." I learned the term from friends who were white, lower
socio-economic class. Being a still-poor ABD Asst. Prof, I am not yet able
to afford DARE--so I haven't even been able to look the term up there. Is
there a citation for it, and just as important, has anyone else out there ever
heard this item? Thanks in advance for all responses.
Greg Pulliam
IIT
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 05:47:35 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: longhandles
The cold weather is here in Chicago, and my thoughts have turned to long
underwear, which, in my youth in NE Mississippi (Aberdeen) I learned to refer
to as "long-handles." I learned the term from friends who were white, lower
socio-economic class. Being a still-poor ABD Asst. Prof, I am not yet able
to afford DARE--so I haven't even been able to look the term up there. Is
there a citation for it, and just as important, has anyone else out there ever
heard this item? Thanks in advance for all responses.
I've heard it, although I don't think I've ever known anybody who actually
wore them. I've heard the term used in sort of a joking tone, like "Better
get out your long-handles -- it's gonna be cold today." The term is used
interchangeably with "long-johns."
I also am from Mississippi -- native of Jackson, resident of Starkville
for the past 20+ years.
--Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 08:56:00 EST
From: "James_C.Stalker" STALKER[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MSU.EDU
Subject: longhandles
I grew up in a suburb of Louisville, KY, mostly working and lower middle
class.We used the term in my family, although we did not wear the garment.
The term "longjohns" (always in the plural) was generally considered rural,
"countrified," and, of course, we city-bred folk were too sophisticated to
wear such articles of clothing.
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 08:58:00 EST
From: "James_C.Stalker" STALKER[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MSU.EDU
Subject: longhandles
I signed off a little too quickly. The "longjohns" comment from the
ex-Louisville resident is from
Jim Stalker
Department of English
Michigan State University
stalker[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]msu.edu
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 08:20:00 CDT
From: Beth Lee Simon BLSIMON[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MACC.WISC.EDU
Subject: Re: longhandles
ABD's, and others on a campus, may find volumes 1 & 2 of DARE in the
library.
beth simon
DARE
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 08:37:00 CDT
From: Luanne von Schneidemesser LUANNEVONS[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MACC.WISC.EDU
Subject: long-handles
Does DARE have long handles? Yes, and all kinds of
variants, as the list below shows:
GOURD HANDLES
HANDLEBARS
HANDLES
LONG HANDLE
LONG HANDLE DRAWERS
LONG HANDLE JOHNS
LONG HANDLE UNDERWEAR
LONG HANDLEBARS
LONG HANDLED UNDERWEAR
LONG HANDLEDS
LONG HANDLES
LONG-HANDLED DRAWERS
LONG-HANDLED UNDERWEAR
RED HANDLES
SHORT HANDLES
And yes, it is regional. Natalie and Jim are right. While
the North and North Midland may be unfamiliar with the term,
it is common in the rest of the country. We have 247 responses
with long handles or a form of it; add short handles, handlebars,
etc., and there are 261 responses.
And very soon we'll need them here in Wisconsin.
Luanne
Luanne von Schneidemesser
Dictionary of American Regional English
6129 H.C. White, UW-Madison, 53706
(608)263-2748
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 09:40:25 EST
From: Larry Horn LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject: Salugi?
Impatient for the relevant volume of DARE to appear, I was wondering if anyone
out there in ADS-Land can help me pin down the distribution and, if possible,
history of this term, used regularly for a game (or teasing-event) popular in
New York City--or at least one part of the city--during the 1950's. The
phonetic representation can be given as something like [s[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]LU:ji], where [AT SYMBOL GOES HERE] is a
schwa and j is the usual voiced palatal affricate. I've never seen the word
in print, but always assumed it was Italian in origin, hence the spelling on
the subject line. I'll post my own gloss after I get some responses.
Larry Horn
P.S. Of course, I wanted data or intuitions about the meaning as well--how
is/was salugi played?
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 10:01:00 CST
From: salikoko mufwene mufw[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU
Subject: Re: longhandles
James_C.Stalker:
I grew up in a suburb of Louisville, KY, mostly working and lower middle
class.We used the term in my family, although we did not wear the garment.
The term "longjohns" (always in the plural) was generally considered rural,
"countrified," and, of course, we city-bred folk were too sophisticated to
wear such articles of clothing.
The term I was taught in Chicago, when several years ago I was advised how
to dress for the cold weather was "long Johns."
Salikoko S. Mufwene
Linguistics, U. of Chicago
s-mufwene[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uchicago.edu
312-702-8531
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 12:30:45 EST
From: Robert Kelly kelly[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]LEVY.BARD.EDU
Subject: Re: long-handles
Some of us new to the postings ---and libraries in general--- could bear to
hear news about the current status of DARE and publication plans for future
volumes of this most valuable of all projects.
And are there any chances of CD-ROM versions of the published text, or all
the text? Or on-line access?
The Internet makes dreamers of us all...
R.Kelly
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 12:40:42 EST
From: Robert Kelly kelly[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]LEVY.BARD.EDU
Subject: Re: Salugi?
I learned the term watching it played, maybe even being a victim of it. I gew
_digo_ grew up in Brooklyn, but learned the "game" in Manhattan and the Bronx.
It is that fine old vicious childhood game of stealing a kid's hat and tossing
it from hand to hand over the kid's head or around the kid's back, hand to
hand in a circle of tormentors. Usually the kid is fat or short or weak or
wrong sex or wrong color--in any case, it is certainly a Persecution Model game,
but it was only played with the hat or cap or scarf--never with book or bag or
object. I learned the word, then, in Northern New York City in the 1950s, and
have heard it nowhere else. When I use it nowadays (expressive as it is), I
get blank stares, even from people whose local origin suggests they know the
game. I'd love to know if the word is still used down there --- and even
whether the symbolic-torture has given way to real ones, of whether it's
still possible to vex in so symbolic a fashion.
Sometimes the game was introduced by an older child, or stronger child, saying
Hey, let's play salugi [I've never seen the word spelled out, and accept the
spelling at hand]! or even, more craftily, Wanna play salugi? This last
was esteemed especial fun, since the victim is complicit with his own fate.
There was the hint that salugi was rare and fine and special---perhaps the
word itself is one of those brilliant coinages, at the nonce rich with
connotation and void of denotation.
I await more news.
R.Kelly
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 10:07:59 -0800
From: Janice Kammert jkammert[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]U.WASHINGTON.EDU
Subject: Re: longhandles
I grew up in an upper class suburb of Chicago in the 1960s-70s. We used the
term "longjohns." I even remember wearing them.
On Tue, 2 Nov 1993, James_C.Stalker wrote:
I grew up in a suburb of Louisville, KY, mostly working and lower middle
class.We used the term in my family, although we did not wear the garment.
The term "longjohns" (always in the plural) was generally considered rural,
"countrified," and, of course, we city-bred folk were too sophisticated to
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 13:57:47 EST
From: Larry Horn LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: Salugi?
That's exactly it. I don't think your citing will widen the isogloss, but
whereabouts were you (more or less specifically) at the time? I was on West
163 St., Manhattan. I've always explained to friends outside the relevant
dialect area that salugi differs from keepaway precisely in that one couldn't
have proposed "Let's play salugi--I'll be it!" (Unless one was a masochist,
perhaps?) So you clearly have the same understanding of the form. Let's see
who else signs on.
Larry
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 14:02:53 EST
From: Larry Horn LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject: Anyone (else) for salugi?
Sorry, everyone. I hadn't noticed that the posting from R. Kelly went out to
the list rather than just to me--thus the reply I just posted to everyone. So
the secret is out. My familiarity with the term and the concept are the same
as that of the other poster. But please don't let that stop anyone else from
responding, whether or not your memories are the same. Is there any evidence
about when the term (or the "game") originated, whether it's still extant, or
(if not) when it died out? If the neighborhood in which I learned salugi
still plays it, they do so in Spanish, but perhaps it's around elsewhere.
Any DARE data?
Larry
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 16:31:56 -0500
From: james a tucker jatuck00[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MIK.UKY.EDU
Subject: Re: longhandles
I was raised on a farm in Lincoln County, Kentucky (in the
south-central part of the state) and often wore long
underwear while working outside during the winter. My
parents and grandparents always called them
long-handles (occasionally, long-johns). Hope this
helps.
---
--
-=+ James A. Tucker jatuck00[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]mik.uky.edu +=-
-=+Classics/Economics Undergraduate University of Kentucky+=-
-=+ "Vex not thy spirit at the course of things; +=-
-=+ They heed not thy vexation." +=-
-=+ --Marcus Aurelius, quoting Euripides +=-
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 02:23:08 CST
From: Donald Lance ENGDL%MIZZOU1.BITNET[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject: Re: longhandles
Is there another term for longhandles? That's what they are. Just like
snake doctors and tow sacks. Others have funny terms for lotsa things.
DARE goes only thru H, sop we'll have to wait till next year for 'longjohns'.
I eagerly await the next installment.
It has been cold here too, with snow flurries, but not like Chi Town, I'm
sure. DMLance
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 08:33:59 EST
From: Robert Kelly kelly[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]LEVY.BARD.EDU
Subject: Re: Salugi?
Isogloss barely quivers: I first played salugi on West 155th street. Though
that was in a CCNY context, hence a false sense of the local. But interesting
that the instances were only eight blocks apart. Are we onto a Vinegar Hill
microlect?
RK
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 09:51:49 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU
Subject: Salugi
I asked an e-mail friend who grew up in the Bronx in the '50s if he
had ever heard of Salugi. Here's his reply (forwarded with his
permission):
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 23:03:12 -0600 (CST)
From: "Ken Wolman" woldoc[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]woldoc.jvnc.net
Subject: RE: Salugi
SLOODJIE! Oh my God, I haven't thought of that in years! It's like Hot
Potato. Poor sucker in the middle tries to get the ball, or his hat back,
or something....
--Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 12:14:15 +22305606
From: "Ellen Johnson Faq. Filosofia y Hdes." ejohnson[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ABELLO.SECI.UCHILE.CL
Subject: longjohns
My father, a native Atlantan born in the 1920s, uses the term long-handled
underwear. It always has a slightly humorous connotation, as noted by Natalie.
Is this because such an artifact is so infrequently used in Georgia as to seem
somewhat ludicrous in itself? It's interesting to hear that others use the
term, since I just assumed it was another of the idiosyncrasies of my dad's
speech, like bumbershoot for umbrella.
Ellen Johnson ejohnson[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]abello.seci.uchile.cl
P.S. Thanks for the replies on variation and TESOL. The conference paper went
over well and it gave me an opportunity to learn some new things and relearn
some old ones, since I trained and worked as a foreign language teacher several
years ago. I'm currently reading Sociolinguistics and Second Lg. Acquisition
by Dennis Preston and recommend it for anyone interested in the topic.
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 08:16:00 CDT
From: Joan Houston Hall DARE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MACC.WISC.EDU
Subject: salugi
DARE has several anecdotal quotes for -salugi-, all from NYC, from the
1950's-70's. The term has also made it into print, in Fred Ferretti's
book -The Great American Book of Sidewalk, Stoop, Dirt, Curb, and Alley
Games- (Workman Publishing Co., NY, 1975). Ferretti says: "-Saluggi,
or Saloogie-, is another rather simple game that derives from torment. Two or
more players simply take something..from another kid
dashing up and down the sidewalk while the owner tries desperately to get
back his or her property. The only rules are that whoever catches the item
must shout, "Saloogie on Chris's knife!," or "Saloogie on Stevie's model
plane!,"
or whatever and that the victim must be angry, which is not at all difficult.
It is not necessary to choose up for a game of Saloogie; rather, the predators
have to decide on a victim, which is also not difficult." Ferretti's domain is
Queens.
Joan Hall, DARE
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 08:45:00 CDT
From: Joan Houston Hall DARE[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MACC.WISC.EDU
Subject: Re: longhandles
The DARE data show some interesting contrasts for the long underwear terms.
There's a great map for -long handles-, showing a clear South, South Midland,
West distribution. The term -longies- fills in nicely in the North and
North Midland. -Long jeans- is found especially in the Central Atlantic and
New York. As for -long johns-, it's very widespread, but somewhat less
frequent in the South and South Midland. And -long drawers- is found
chiefly in the Atlantic states.
Joan Hall, DARE
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 08:18:57 -0800
From: Scott Schwenter schwen[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]CSLI.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: Re: salugi
DARE has several anecdotal quotes for -salugi-, all from NYC, from the
1950's-70's. The term has also made it into print, in Fred Ferretti's
book -The Great American Book of Sidewalk, Stoop, Dirt, Curb, and Alley
Games- (Workman Publishing Co., NY, 1975). Ferretti says: "-Saluggi,
or Saloogie-, is another rather simple game that derives from torment. Two or
more players simply take something..from another kid
dashing up and down the sidewalk while the owner tries desperately to get
back his or her property. The only rules are that whoever catches the item
must shout, "Saloogie on Chris's knife!," or "Saloogie on Stevie's model
plane!,"
or whatever and that the victim must be angry, which is not at all difficult.
It is not necessary to choose up for a game of Saloogie; rather, the predators
have to decide on a victim, which is also not difficult." Ferretti's domain i
s
Queens.
Joan Hall, DARE
Is this game the same as "monkey in the middle"?
Scott Schwenter
Linguistics
Stanford Univ.
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 11:16:41 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: longjohns
term, since I just assumed it was another of the idiosyncrasies of my dad's
speech, like bumbershoot for umbrella.
I also know "bumbershoot."
--Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 13:27:35 EST
From: Larry Horn LHORN[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: salugi
In connection with Scott Schwenter's query on the relation of salugi to
monkey-in-the-middle: as I mentioned earlier, and brought out in various
other posts, salugi is/was a rather malicious "game" (game in the sense that
giving someone noogies or a pink belly is a game) that MUST have a victim, one
who is not a willing player. At least for me, m-in-the-m has no such
constraints (both for me as a child, and now for my own children, there's
nothing inappropriate or masochistic about the suggestion "Let's play
monkey-in-the-middle; I'll be it." The suggestion "Let's play salugi on me"
has the flavor of "Why don't you tease me until I cry?" This was New York,
remember. LH
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 12:45:27 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]RA.MSSTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: salugi
Funny timing. I forwarded some of the recent list discussion to my
friend who grew up in the Bronx and just got the following reply from
him (before I had even seen today's mention of Monkey-in-the-Middle):
Sounds like saloogie/sloogie all right!
Did I tell you it's also known as Monkey In The Middle? That's one I
heard from Ann, who did not grow up in NYC, but on waaaaay out Eastern
Long Island. You might wanna pass that on the ADS-L people, too.
(Ann is his wife.)
--Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 15:38:08 -0800
From: Donald Livingston deljr[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]U.WASHINGTON.EDU
Subject: Re: bumbershoot
"Bumbershoot" is alive and well in Seattle where we have a yearly music
festival by that name. That brings about sentences that would probably
have been unthinkable to previous generations: "Hey, are you going to
Bumbershoot this weekend?" I leave it to the reader to discern why
Seattle would name such a major musical event "Bumbershoot".
On Thu, 4 Nov 1993, Natalie Maynor wrote:
term, since I just assumed it was another of the idiosyncrasies of my dad's
speech, like bumbershoot for umbrella.
I also know "bumbershoot."
--Natalie (maynor[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]ra.msstate.edu)
All the best, Don.
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