Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 11:05:11 -0600
From: "Kathleen M. O'Neill" koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]UIC.EDU
Subject: Gringo (forwarded)
On LANTRA-L, a listserv for interpreters and translators,
we just recently had a long thread regarding
the term "gringo."
Sorry about the lengthiness,
but I hope this is helpful.
We're having a small "debate" here regarding where the word "gringo" came
from... We all agree on the
"green go home" part but not on what the word green refers to. Some
suggestions:
* green uniform (but someone says that back in 1849 the uniforms weren't
green!)
* green money
* green eyes
Any ideas? Thanks!
Lisa
---
Lisa
I've just checked the Diccionario de la Real Academia and it says the origin
of "gringo" is "griego", though why they should choose the Greeks as a
perjorative term for those Yankee chaps is beyond me. I think I've heard of
another origin of the term but my brain just won't let me at it. If it pops
up out of the unconscious I'll send it on.
Tim (el gringo)
---
Lisa wrote:
We're having a small "debate" here regarding
where the word "gringo" came from... We all agree on
the "green go home" part but not on what the word
Tim wrote:
I've just checked the Diccionario de la Real
Academia and it says the origin of "gringo" is
"griego", though why they should choose the
Greeks as a perjorative term for those Yankee
chaps is beyond me.
By analogy I should think.
Here is what I found in Breve diccionario etimologico de la lengua
castellana:
GRINGO, 1765-83. Se aplico primeramente a la lengua y luego al que la
hablaba. Es alteracion de griego en el sentido de lenguaje incomprehensible,
1615, valor que en Espana se dio por antonomasia al nombre de la lengua de
Grecia, como resultado indirecto de la costumbre de mencionarla junto con el
latin, y de la doctrina observada por la Iglesia de que el griego no era
necesario para la erudicion catolica.
The Moliner goes much on the same line:
GRINGO. (Alter. de GRIEGO, lengua considerada como extrana).
1) lenguaje ininteligible
2) (despectivo) extranjero; especialmente ingles
3) (Hispam) Norteamericano de los Estados Unidos
---
Green grow the rashes oh (from a popular song of the Mexican War era,
originally Scottish).
---
I have always heard that gringo was from the song "Green grow the rashes oh,
" popular in the 1840s.
---
The word "gringo" is commonly used in Mexico to designate a U.S. citizen,
instead of the more formal "estadoounidense".
It has also been used in other countries in Latin America (Argentina, Brazil
, others?). The word might have its origin in one or more of the following
3 theories:
1. 1765
In line with what has already been said by Tim, Manon and
Steve, several dictionaries indicate that the word "gringo" already existed
in Spain around 1765, it was derived from "griego" (Greek), and it was used
to denote foreigners. Apparently, it is no longer used in Spain with this
meaning.
2. 1847-1860
As it has already been stated by Paul (what are *rashes*?
anyway), during the Mexican-American War in 1847 and in the decade and a
half before 1860, the song "Green Grow the Lilacs" was a sentimental
favorite all over the U.S., and especially among soldiers. Supposedly
"gringo" is a contraction of the first two words of that song:
GREEN GROW THE LILACS
Green grow the lilacs, all sparkling with dew;
I'm lonely, my darling, since parting from you.
But by our next meeting I hope to prove true,
And change the green lilacs to the red, white and blue.
I passed my love's window, both early and late,
The look that she gave me, it made my heart ache.
Oh the look that she gave me was painful to see,
For she loves another one better than me.
I wrote her a letter all wet with tears,
She sent me an answer confirming my fears,
Saying , 'keep your love letters and I will keep mine,
Just you write to your love and I'll write to mine."
I once had a sweetheart, but now I have none,
Since she's gone and left me, I care not for one.
Since she's gone and left me, contended I'll be,
For she loves another one better than me.
3. 1916
From the color of the uniforms of the members of the
punitive expedition that went into Mexico pursuing revolutionary leader
Franciso Villa ('Pancho Villa') in 1916. According to this theory the
people would chant to the soldiers: Green go home!
---
Wasn't that song Green grow the rushes oh -- at least that's how
I remember it. It was sort of a counting song, with a few Christian
overtones the way I learned it as a kid -- it started out:
I'll sing you one-o
Green grow the rushes-o
What is your one-o
One is one and all alone and never more shall be so
I'll sing you two-o
Green grow the rushes-o
And so on.
---
In article 951030.193522.55681[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MSF.UNIZAR.ES , Tim wrote:
Lisa
I've just checked the Diccionario de la Real
Academia and it says the origin of "gringo" is
"griego", though why they should choose the
Greeks as a perjorative term for those Yankee
chaps is beyond me. I think I've heard of another
origin of the term but my brain just won't let me
at it. If it pops up out of the unconscious I'll
send it on.
Tim (el gringo)
I always assumed that it was from the Spanish equivalent of the phrase,
"What're those Yanquis saying? It's Greek to me."
---
In article 951030.193522.55681[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MSF.UNIZAR.ES , Tim wrote:
Lisa
I've just checked the Diccionario de la Real
Academia and it says the origin of "gringo" is
"griego", though why they should choose the
Greeks as a perjorative term for those Yankee
chaps is beyond me. I think I've heard of another
origin of the term but my brain just won't let me
at it. If it pops up out of the unconscious I'll
send it on.
Tim (el gringo)
I always assumed that it was from the Spanish equivalent of the phrase,
"What're those Yanquis saying? It's Greek to me."
---
As per the Diccionario Enciclopedico Salvat de la Lengua Espa~nola a Gringo
or Gringa (fem.) despective expression meaning "foreigner", especially the
English, and in general anyone not speaking the Spanish language. As an
Americanism it is also applied to call a "very white and blond person"
usualy in diminutive and as an expression of affection. Also means "Greek"
as an intelligible language. Hablar en Gringo = Hablar en Griego
For ethimology please consider the similarity of Gringo with Griego.
---
I asked other members of the department if they
had any idea of the origin of "gringo" and the
commonly held opinion was that it was one of those
words that is of folk etymology, that is, that
there is no knowledge of the true origin, only
about 500 different possible origins.
Tim.
---
Green grow the rashes oh (from a popular song of the Mexican War era,
originally Scottish).
Should be "the rushes" - but apart from that you're right. I think the song
is attributed to my national poet, Robert Burns, but then loads of songs are
attributed to him, sometimes wrongly. Auld Lang Syne, for instance, which
was written by a poet name of Robert Ayton and subsequently adapted by Burns
.
---
Hi everybody
I am fascinated by discussion about gringo. Never suspected it could be so
interesting.
Ricardo Alfaro's Diccionario de Anglicismos mentions "Green grows the grass
in
Ireland" etc., and it adds -- Oh I hate not putting accents, so I write
capitals instead "Si este origen es verIdico por lo que hace a MExico, deja
sin
explicar la existencia del vocablo en la AmErica meridional, ya que SalvA lo
cataloga en su Diccionario, editado en 1846, antes de que estallara la
guerra
de 1847 ".
Reference to "gringo" in J. Corominas' Complete Diccionario CrItico
EtimolOgico is too long to be copied here (maybe I need a scanner!), but
please
look for it (gringo, not the scanner) under GRIEGO. It is really interesting
--
GRIEGO, 'lenguaje incomprensible' , valor que en Espana se diO sic por
antonomasia al nombre de la lengua de Grecia, como resultado indirecto de la
costumbre de mencionarla junto con el latin, y de la doctrina observada por
la
Iglesia de que el griego no era necesario para la erudiciOn catOlica...
Well, I am sorry, I suppose many people interested will not read Spanish...
Corominas goes on putting many examples of evolution from GRIEGO to GRINGO,
going back much before 1847... as far as the 18th century... "gringos are
called in MAlaga the foreigners, who have a certain kind of accent..., and
in
Madrid they give the same name particularly to Irish people..."...
EstebAnez CalderOn = "not a few gringos and foreigners"
Pardo BazAn = "mAs vale una chula que treinta gringas"
BretOn de los Herreros = Do I speak Latin or GRINGO? sic sic sic
Well, excuses for my quick translation of some little fragments into English
.
But I like this link between Corominas' dictionary and Stepehn A. Carter's
remark: I always assumed that it was from the Spanish equivalent of the
phrase, "What're those Yanquis saying? It's Greek to me." This "It's Greek
to
me" seems to come from the tunnel of old times...
But after all, maybe gringo has two or three different fathers and mothers..
.
Salud for all them.
---
Paul's explanation is the one I've always heard.
My mother's folks were Cuban and they used to say the son was popular during
the Spanish American War. Not impossible of course...
---
The word "gringo" is commonly used in Mexico to designate a U.S. citizen,
instead of the more formal "estadoounidense".
It has also been used in other countries in Latin America (Argentina,
Brazil, others?). `
Until the mid '40's it was a derogatory term in Costa Rica. Later it became
just a synonym for American. Now it includes almost any English speaker --
to the dismay of the thousands of Canadians who visit here-- or any tall,
blond, blue-eyed person --to the dismay of the thousands of non-English
speakers who fit into the stereotype!
Jeanina
---
As it has already been stated by Paul (what are *rashes*?
anyway), during the Mexican-American War in 1847 and in the decade and a
half before 1860, the song "Green Grow the Lilacs" was a sentimental
favorite all over the U.S., and especially among soldiers. Supposedly
"gringo" is a contraction of the first two words of that song:
GREEN GROW THE LILACS
Green grow the lilacs, all sparkling with dew;
I'm lonely, my darling, since parting from you.
Whatever the source of the word "gringo", the song you quote is completely
different from the Scottish song "Green grow the rushes O" mentioned by Paul
---
Gringos is a most useful word, in my experience, I hate
identifying myself as Norte Americano. But one must remember, as I did not,
not to use it in Iberia. I remember the difficulty people had in a small
town in Spain (on the Border, I spoke Portuguese) trying to figure out
exactly what I had called myself!! (Um estrangeiro loco!) Paul
---
Indeed, I stand corrected. It is "green grow the lilacs." Paul
---
Whatever the source of the word "gringo", the song you quote is completely
different from the Scottish song "Green grow the rushes O" mentioned by
Paul.
After suffering cold sweats and trembling and undergoing therapy with my
counsellor, I see that LANTRA is back in action. Funny how addictive this
virtual talking shop has become. By the way, the commonly held belief in
this department about the origin of gringo is that there is no solid
explanation. It is one of these folk etymological beasties, like "O.K.".
However, if I had to bet on the most likely origin, I'd go for griego
(although here in Spain they say hablar en chino when talking about
something incomprehensible)
Tim (with that LANTRA monkey on his back)
---
Tim wrote:
...By the way, the commonly held belief in this department
about theorigin of gringo is that there is no solid explanation.
It is one of these folk etymological beasties, like "O.K.".
Right. As a matter of fact, the "griego" etymology which is mentioned in
Mari'a Moliner and in previous editions of the Diccionario de la Real
Academia was removed form the latest DRAE (21st edition).
The Academy's entry for gringo used to start: (De _griego_)
The entry in DRAE XXI (1992) starts: (De etim. disc.)
---
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