Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 11:05:11 -0600 From: "Kathleen M. O'Neill" Subject: Gringo (forwarded) On LANTRA-L, a listserv for interpreters and translators, we just recently had a long thread regarding the term "gringo." Sorry about the lengthiness, but I hope this is helpful. >We're having a small "debate" here regarding where the word "gringo" came >from... We all agree on the >"green go home" part but not on what the word green refers to. Some >suggestions: > >* green uniform (but someone says that back in 1849 the uniforms weren't >green!) > >* green money > >* green eyes > >Any ideas? Thanks! > >Lisa --- >Lisa >I've just checked the Diccionario de la Real Academia and it says the origin >of "gringo" is "griego", though why they should choose the Greeks as a >perjorative term for those Yankee chaps is beyond me. I think I've heard of >another origin of the term but my brain just won't let me at it. If it pops >up out of the unconscious I'll send it on. > >Tim (el gringo) --- >Lisa wrote: >>>We're having a small "debate" here regarding >>>where the word "gringo" came from... We all agree on >>>the "green go home" part but not on what the word >>Tim wrote: >>I've just checked the Diccionario de la Real >>Academia and it says the origin of "gringo" is >>"griego", though why they should choose the >>Greeks as a perjorative term for those Yankee >>chaps is beyond me. > >By analogy I should think. > >Here is what I found in Breve diccionario etimologico de la lengua >castellana: > >GRINGO, 1765-83. Se aplico primeramente a la lengua y luego al que la >hablaba. Es alteracion de griego en el sentido de lenguaje incomprehensible, >1615, valor que en Espana se dio por antonomasia al nombre de la lengua de >Grecia, como resultado indirecto de la costumbre de mencionarla junto con el >latin, y de la doctrina observada por la Iglesia de que el griego no era >necesario para la erudicion catolica. > >The Moliner goes much on the same line: >GRINGO. (Alter. de GRIEGO, lengua considerada como extrana). >1) lenguaje ininteligible >2) (despectivo) extranjero; especialmente ingles >3) (Hispam) Norteamericano de los Estados Unidos > --- >Green grow the rashes oh (from a popular song of the Mexican War era, >originally Scottish). > --- >I have always heard that gringo was from the song "Green grow the rashes oh, >" popular in the 1840s. --- >The word "gringo" is commonly used in Mexico to designate a U.S. citizen, >instead of the more formal "estadoounidense". > >It has also been used in other countries in Latin America (Argentina, Brazil >, others?). The word might have its origin in one or more of the following >3 theories: > > 1. 1765 > In line with what has already been said by Tim, Manon and >Steve, several dictionaries indicate that the word "gringo" already existed >in Spain around 1765, it was derived from "griego" (Greek), and it was used >to denote foreigners. Apparently, it is no longer used in Spain with this >meaning. > > 2. 1847-1860 > As it has already been stated by Paul (what are *rashes*? >anyway), during the Mexican-American War in 1847 and in the decade and a >half before 1860, the song "Green Grow the Lilacs" was a sentimental >favorite all over the U.S., and especially among soldiers. Supposedly >"gringo" is a contraction of the first two words of that song: > > GREEN GROW THE LILACS > >Green grow the lilacs, all sparkling with dew; >I'm lonely, my darling, since parting from you. >But by our next meeting I hope to prove true, >And change the green lilacs to the red, white and blue. > >I passed my love's window, both early and late, >The look that she gave me, it made my heart ache. >Oh the look that she gave me was painful to see, >For she loves another one better than me. > >I wrote her a letter all wet with tears, >She sent me an answer confirming my fears, >Saying , 'keep your love letters and I will keep mine, >Just you write to your love and I'll write to mine." > >I once had a sweetheart, but now I have none, >Since she's gone and left me, I care not for one. >Since she's gone and left me, contended I'll be, >For she loves another one better than me. > > > 3. 1916 > From the color of the uniforms of the members of the >punitive expedition that went into Mexico pursuing revolutionary leader >Franciso Villa ('Pancho Villa') in 1916. According to this theory the >people would chant to the soldiers: Green go home! > --- >Wasn't that song Green grow the rushes oh -- at least that's how >I remember it. It was sort of a counting song, with a few Christian >overtones the way I learned it as a kid -- it started out: > >I'll sing you one-o >Green grow the rushes-o >What is your one-o >One is one and all alone and never more shall be so >I'll sing you two-o >Green grow the rushes-o >And so on. --- >In article <<951030.193522.55681[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MSF.UNIZAR.ES>, Tim wrote: >> Lisa >> I've just checked the Diccionario de la Real >> Academia and it says the origin of "gringo" is >> "griego", though why they should choose the >> Greeks as a perjorative term for those Yankee >> chaps is beyond me. I think I've heard of another >> origin of the term but my brain just won't let me >> at it. If it pops up out of the unconscious I'll >> send it on. >> >> Tim (el gringo) > >I always assumed that it was from the Spanish equivalent of the phrase, >"What're those Yanquis saying? It's Greek to me." > --- >In article <<951030.193522.55681[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]MSF.UNIZAR.ES>, Tim wrote: >> >> Lisa >> I've just checked the Diccionario de la Real >> Academia and it says the origin of "gringo" is >> "griego", though why they should choose the >> Greeks as a perjorative term for those Yankee >> chaps is beyond me. I think I've heard of another >> origin of the term but my brain just won't let me >> at it. If it pops up out of the unconscious I'll >> send it on. >> >> Tim (el gringo) > >I always assumed that it was from the Spanish equivalent of the phrase, >"What're those Yanquis saying? It's Greek to me." --- >> >As per the Diccionario Enciclopedico Salvat de la Lengua Espa~nola a Gringo >or Gringa (fem.) despective expression meaning "foreigner", especially the >English, and in general anyone not speaking the Spanish language. As an >Americanism it is also applied to call a "very white and blond person" >usualy in diminutive and as an expression of affection. Also means "Greek" >as an intelligible language. Hablar en Gringo = Hablar en Griego >For ethimology please consider the similarity of Gringo with Griego. > --- >I asked other members of the department if they >had any idea of the origin of "gringo" and the >commonly held opinion was that it was one of those >words that is of folk etymology, that is, that >there is no knowledge of the true origin, only >about 500 different possible origins. > >Tim. --- >>Green grow the rashes oh (from a popular song of the Mexican War era, >>originally Scottish). >> > >Should be "the rushes" - but apart from that you're right. I think the song >is attributed to my national poet, Robert Burns, but then loads of songs are >attributed to him, sometimes wrongly. Auld Lang Syne, for instance, which >was written by a poet name of Robert Ayton and subsequently adapted by Burns >. --- >>Hi everybody >I am fascinated by discussion about gringo. Never suspected it could be so >interesting. >Ricardo Alfaro's Diccionario de Anglicismos mentions "Green grows the grass >in >Ireland" etc., and it adds -- capitals instead> "Si este origen es verIdico por lo que hace a MExico, deja >sin >explicar la existencia del vocablo en la AmErica meridional, ya que SalvA lo >cataloga en su Diccionario, editado en 1846, antes de que estallara la >guerra >". > >Reference to "gringo" in J. Corominas' Diccionario CrItico >EtimolOgico is too long to be copied here (maybe I need a scanner!), but >please >look for it (gringo, not the scanner) under GRIEGO. It is really interesting >-- >GRIEGO, 'lenguaje incomprensible' , valor que en Espana se diO por >antonomasia al nombre de la lengua de Grecia, como resultado indirecto de la >costumbre de mencionarla junto con el latin, y de la doctrina observada por >la >Iglesia de que el griego no era necesario para la erudiciOn catOlica... >Well, I am sorry, I suppose many people interested will not read Spanish... >Corominas goes on putting many examples of evolution from GRIEGO to GRINGO, >going back much before 1847... as far as the 18th century... "gringos are >called in MAlaga the foreigners, who have a certain kind of accent..., and >in >Madrid they give the same name particularly to Irish people..."... >EstebAnez CalderOn = "not a few gringos and foreigners" >Pardo BazAn = "mAs vale una chula que treinta gringas" >BretOn de los Herreros = Do I speak Latin or GRINGO? >Well, excuses for my quick translation of some little fragments into English >. >But I like this link between Corominas' dictionary and Stepehn A. Carter's >remark: phrase, "What're those Yanquis saying? It's Greek to me." This "It's Greek >to >me" seems to come from the tunnel of old times... >But after all, maybe gringo has two or three different fathers and mothers.. >. >Salud for all them. --- >Paul's explanation is the one I've always heard. >My mother's folks were Cuban and they used to say the son was popular during >the Spanish American War. Not impossible of course... --- >> The word "gringo" is commonly used in Mexico to designate a U.S. citizen, >> instead of the more formal "estadoounidense". >> >> It has also been used in other countries in Latin America (Argentina, >> Brazil, others?). ` > >Until the mid '40's it was a derogatory term in Costa Rica. Later it became >just a synonym for American. Now it includes almost any English speaker -- >to the dismay of the thousands of Canadians who visit here-- or any tall, >blond, blue-eyed person --to the dismay of the thousands of non-English >speakers who fit into the stereotype! > >Jeanina --- >>As it has already been stated by Paul (what are *rashes*? >>anyway), during the Mexican-American War in 1847 and in the decade and a >>half before 1860, the song "Green Grow the Lilacs" was a sentimental >>favorite all over the U.S., and especially among soldiers. Supposedly >>"gringo" is a contraction of the first two words of that song: >> >> GREEN GROW THE LILACS >> >>Green grow the lilacs, all sparkling with dew; >>I'm lonely, my darling, since parting from you. > >Whatever the source of the word "gringo", the song you quote is completely >different from the Scottish song "Green grow the rushes O" mentioned by Paul --- >Gringos is a most useful word, in my experience, I hate >identifying myself as Norte Americano. But one must remember, as I did not, >not to use it in Iberia. I remember the difficulty people had in a small >town in Spain (on the Border, I spoke Portuguese) trying to figure out >exactly what I had called myself!! (Um estrangeiro loco!) Paul --- >Indeed, I stand corrected. It is "green grow the lilacs." Paul --- >> Whatever the source of the word "gringo", the song you quote is completely >> different from the Scottish song "Green grow the rushes O" mentioned by >>Paul. > >After suffering cold sweats and trembling and undergoing therapy with my >counsellor, I see that LANTRA is back in action. Funny how addictive this >virtual talking shop has become. By the way, the commonly held belief in >this department about the origin of gringo is that there is no solid >explanation. It is one of these folk etymological beasties, like "O.K.". >However, if I had to bet on the most likely origin, I'd go for griego >(although here in Spain they say hablar en chino when talking about >something incomprehensible) > >Tim (with that LANTRA monkey on his back) --- >Tim wrote: >> >>...By the way, the commonly held belief in this department >>about theorigin of gringo is that there is no solid explanation. >>It is one of these folk etymological beasties, like "O.K.". > >Right. As a matter of fact, the "griego" etymology which is mentioned in >Mari'a Moliner and in previous editions of the Diccionario de la Real >Academia was removed form the latest DRAE (21st edition). > >The Academy's entry for gringo used to start: (De _griego_) >The entry in DRAE XXI (1992) starts: (De etim. disc.) > --- ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; ;Kathleen M. O'Neill ... Language Laboratory Technician I ; ;koneil1[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uic.edu ... u55354[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uicvm.cc.uic.edu ; ;::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::; ;University of Illinois at Chicago ... Language Laboratory ; ;703 South Morgan Street (M/C 042) ... Grant Hall, Room 311 ; ;Chicago, IL 60607-7025 ; ;312.996.8838 or 8836 ... 312.996.5501 FAX ; ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;