Date:  Sat, 29 Oct 1994 20:03:27 EDT

From:  flanigan[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]OUVAXA.CATS.OHIOU.EDU

Subject: anymore, needs+pp, V+with



          Ohio University Electronic Communication





  Date: 29-Oct-1994 08:02pm EST



   To: Remote Addressee           ( _mx%"ads-l[AT SYMBOL GOES HERE]uga.bitnet )



  From: Beverly Flanigan              Dept: Linguistics

     FLANIGAN                 Tel No:



Subject: anymore, needs+pp, V+with





  Several comments on several threads:

   -- Like fellow Northerner (and friend) Bev Hartford, I had never

  heard positive, or fronted, 'anymore' before going down to Bloomington,

  Indiana. In fact, after having heard a paper on the many syntactic and

  semantic constraints on 'anymore' (at the Summer ADS meeting in

  Albuquerque in 1980, by Frank Parker?), I was amazed to hear every rule

  confirmed when I moved to Southeastern Ohio. I've heard it from people

  from as far north as Akron, but no farther; nor have I heard it from

  "Deep" Southerners.

   -- Unlike Bev, I don't recall hearing "needs+p.p." in Bloomington,

  but it is ubiquitous in this part of Ohio, and is by no means limited

  to the "uneducated townies," contrary to what my out-of-state

  undergraduates (and some graduates) think. Indeed, one of my graduate

  students (from Portsmouth, Ohio) said that, rather like Joan

  Livingston-Webber, she had never heard any alternate form until she

  came to Ohio University. I like to show my classes a clipping from the

  local newspaper showing the "Pillar Paintin'" of a church, with the

  caption "The pillar bases needed replaced because they were rotting."

  A reader (clearly an outsider, probably a "gownie") wrote in to

  complain that his second-grader was "having enough trouble speaking

  English correctly," and that while he "hate[d] to be picky," "maybe the

  editor needs woke up"; to which the editor replied, "You're right.

  You're being picky. I admit, though, the caption needs corrected."

   -- "Come with" and similar constructions are very familiar to this

  native Minnesotan, and, like others, I associate it with the German and

  Scandinavian two-part (or separable) verbs used by our ancestors.

  However, contrary to Allan Denchfield, no Minnesotan (not even Garrison

  Keillor in his most fun-poking moments) would say "what nationality was

  settled Minnesota with." BTW, my Indianan-Ohioan son laughs at my use

  of "come with" but will occasionally say "needs washed," despite his

  expressed rejection of this region's speech.

   -- Minor notes: "Set out" and "if he would have" are indeed common

  in Minnesota; on the latter, I don't know if German or the Scandinavian

  languages allow this alternate subjunctive form. On equivalents of

  John Baugh's "Home Training," I was about to offer "raised right," but

  that's from 20 years in southern Indiana and Ohio; in Minnesota, we

  were "brought up right."

   -- Finally, Joan L-W is right about students needing "a good dose of

  'nonstandard' speech in high places." I have my grad students replicate

  Trudgill's test of polylectal comprehension (in _On Dialect_) using

  Appalachian and other forms, and they regularly get "The sort of thing

  only a foreigner would say" or "Nobody would say this, not even a

  foreigner" on the first three expressions listed above, except from

  respondents who have been here a while, who allow, "I'd never say this,

  but some others might." It makes for good consciousness-raising.

                     --Beverly Olson Flanigan







Received: 29-Oct-1994 08:03pm